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Re: [midatlanticretro] Important museum update

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  • William Donzelli
    ... Wuss. Let me know whenyou have to deal with paint that comes in eight inch incements. ... The best way to remove paint, in my opinion, is still an old
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 5, 2007
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      > Yesterday, Joe and I spent several hours scraping FOUR layers of paint off the
      > metal doorframes in the entrance area to our future museum rooms.

      Wuss. Let me know whenyou have to deal with paint that comes in eight
      inch incements.

      > We considered using a belt sander (while we'd wear respirators), and/or using an
      > industrial solvent of some kind, but I spoke with Fred yesterday and again today,
      > and he said "no way" to those ideas. He assures me that new paint designed to
      > adhere to metal, i.e. Rustoleum, while work a lot better than I expect. And he says
      > that choosing the right color, such as dark green or blue, will cover up most of the
      > bumpy areas where old paint is still underneath.

      The best way to remove paint, in my opinion, is still an old triangle
      shaped chipper (other shapes are available), or the "green"
      environmentally freindly goops. Stay away from the nasty petrochemical
      things of old - they work, but leave such a mess, and you slowly die..
      When you have a lot of time (a couple of days) and large flat expanses
      (like on a door), the green goop is pretty great.

      I am currently (always?) restoring a house from 1776, with my cousin
      (half owner of the house) being a classcially trained archiologist
      often looking over my shoulder, so I get to do a LOT of very proper
      paint removal.

      A standard chipper, with a *light* touch, can do wonders. Make sure
      the blades are SHARP. Yes, there will be some damage to the wood, but
      nothing a little steam or filler can not fix. And with metal? No big
      deal, unless you are Hercules. When you strip, you MUST strip it all.
      Modern paints WILL NOT hide half stripped areas. Nothing will. If you
      chip, be prepared to chip it ALL, or be skilled at filling and sanding
      the transition zone, so the differences in the paint will be hidden.

      Dark colors are better than light colors for hiding flaws, but better
      yet is the lustre of the paint - the flatter the paint is, the more
      sins are hidden. Unfortuneately, flat paints tend to look bad on
      moulding and doorframes, so pick something middle of the road -
      semi-gloss.

      I am still a fan (and user) of oil paints (like Rustoleum), but unless
      you realy know what you are doing, stick to latex. Good latex, as in
      Baer or Benjamin Moore. WIth paint, you get what you pay for. And if
      you must ue oils, used a Benjamin Moore oil. A few places will still
      color match oils.

      The choice is yours when it comes to painting. If you do a quick job,
      you will need to do a quick repaint later. Do a very careful complete
      job, and you can ignore it for years.

      --
      Will
    • Evan Koblentz
      ... Will, thanks for all this good advice. I suspect that InfoAge s tool edges are dull and haven t been replaced in eons. Maybe I ll try again with some new
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 5, 2007
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        >>> The best way to remove paint, in my opinion

        Will, thanks for all this good advice. I suspect that InfoAge's tool
        edges are dull and haven't been replaced in eons. Maybe I'll try again
        with some new blades.

        Or you could come visit and be as helpful as you were at VCF. :)

        - Evan
      • Dan Roganti
        You van try using a Heatgun (not a hairdryer) it s not as lethal as a blowtorch, but still effective. It ll make the paint layers bubble up so you can scrape
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 6, 2007
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          You van try using a Heatgun (not a hairdryer) it's not as lethal as a blowtorch, but still effective. It'll make the paint layers bubble up so you can scrape it off with a putty knife.

          =Dan

          Evan Koblentz wrote:


           

          Yesterday, Joe and I spent several hours scraping FOUR layers of paint off the metal doorframes in the entrance area to our future museum rooms.  We removed the vast majority of the peeling paint, but there’s a LOT of non-peeling paint still there.  It seems to be a really massive challenge, time-wise, to remove all of that old paint.

          
            
        • William Donzelli
          ... If the metal doorframes come anywhere near contact with wood, even studs inside the walls, using a heat gun is ABSOLUTELY NOT RECOMMENDED. The risk for
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 6, 2007
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            > You van try using a Heatgun (not a hairdryer) it's not as lethal as a blowtorch, but still effective. It'll make the paint layers bubble up so you can scrape it off with a putty knife.

            If the metal doorframes come anywhere near contact with wood, even
            studs inside the walls, using a heat gun is ABSOLUTELY NOT
            RECOMMENDED. The risk for fire is very large. If the metal doorframes
            ONLY touch masonry, you can use a heat gun.

            Heatguns are OK on wood, of course.

            --
            Will
          • Dan Roganti
            In any event, you might have to resort to just painting over to avoid any EPA issues regarding paint removal/fumes on an old gov t/state installation since
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 6, 2007
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              In any event, you might have to resort to just painting over to avoid any EPA issues regarding paint removal/fumes on an old gov't/state installation since there's most likely lead in that paint--in some or all the layers--there's strict guidelines for lead paint removal. Something Fred probably didnt want to elaborate to avoid giving you any more headaches :)

              A blowtorch, as suggested previously, has a much higher temp than a heatgun, >1000F
              At least with a heatgun, you can use the low setting , usually 700/800F
              Even a heatgun can cause burn spots in wood if not used correctly.
              In combination with the large surface area of the sheet metal doorframe creates a heatsink which disperses the heat.
              An old trick I always do on a window pane is to cover the window glass with sheet metal to protect it from cracking under the heat when removing old paint.

              =Dan


              William Donzelli wrote:

              > You van try using a Heatgun (not a hairdryer) it's not as lethal as a blowtorch, but still effective. It'll make the paint layers bubble up so you can scrape it off with a putty knife.

              If the metal doorframes come anywhere near contact with wood, even
              studs inside the walls, using a heat gun is ABSOLUTELY NOT
              RECOMMENDED. The risk for fire is very large. If the metal doorframes
              ONLY touch masonry, you can use a heat gun.

              Heatguns are OK on wood, of course.

              --
              Will


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            • Sridhar Ayengar
              ... I ve done a fair amount of work restoring old wooden fireplace mantles. I ve found that there are quite a few solvents out there that work just as well as
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 6, 2007
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                Dan Roganti wrote:
                > A blowtorch, as suggested previously, has a much higher temp than a
                > heatgun, >1000F
                > At least with a heatgun, you can use the low setting , usually 700/800F
                > Even a heatgun can cause burn spots in wood if not used correctly.
                > In combination with the large surface area of the sheet metal doorframe
                > creates a heatsink which disperses the heat.
                > An old trick I always do on a window pane is to cover the window glass
                > with sheet metal to protect it from cracking under the heat when
                > removing old paint.

                I've done a fair amount of work restoring old wooden fireplace mantles.
                I've found that there are quite a few solvents out there that work
                just as well as heat, but are much more gentle. Just read some of the
                reviews.

                Peace... Sridhar
              • William Donzelli
                ... Really, using a heatgun on a metal doorframe with contact to wood within the wall is REALLY DANGEROUS. Yes, the metal sinks the heat. Where? Unless you rip
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 6, 2007
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                  > A blowtorch, as suggested previously, has a much higher temp than a heatgun, >1000F
                  > At least with a heatgun, you can use the low setting , usually 700/800F
                  > Even a heatgun can cause burn spots in wood if not used correctly.
                  > In combination with the large surface area of the sheet metal doorframe creates a heatsink which disperses the heat.

                  Really, using a heatgun on a metal doorframe with contact to wood
                  within the wall is REALLY DANGEROUS. Yes, the metal sinks the heat.
                  Where? Unless you rip the wall open, you do not know. It might sink it
                  to a select few places with dry old wood, or some of the awful
                  flammable junk that used to pass for insulation. The thermal
                  resistance of a metal to wood joint is much lower that that of the
                  hot-air to wood (or hot-air to metal, for that matter). It is easy to
                  get carried away with a hot-air gun (the temperature controls on those
                  things are not precise, as well), and you really might not know about
                  charring wood within the wall until too late.

                  As for stripping around glass on a window? Remove the glass. The putty
                  holding the pane is probably in need a replacement anyway.

                  --
                  Will
                • Evan Koblentz
                  Heh ... you guys make a good point ... Don t burn down the museum. :)
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 6, 2007
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                    Heh ... you guys make a good point ... "Don't burn down the museum." :)


                    >> A blowtorch, as suggested previously, has a much higher temp than a
                    >> heatgun, >1000F
                    >> At least with a heatgun, you can use the low setting , usually 700/800F
                    >> Even a heatgun can cause burn spots in wood if not used correctly.
                    >> In combination with the large surface area of the sheet metal doorframe
                    >> creates a heatsink which disperses the heat.
                    >
                    > Really, using a heatgun on a metal doorframe with contact to wood
                    > within the wall is REALLY DANGEROUS. Yes, the metal sinks the heat.
                    > Where? Unless you rip the wall open, you do not know. It might sink it
                    > to a select few places with dry old wood, or some of the awful
                    > flammable junk that used to pass for insulation. The thermal
                    > resistance of a metal to wood joint is much lower that that of the
                    > hot-air to wood (or hot-air to metal, for that matter). It is easy to
                    > get carried away with a hot-air gun (the temperature controls on those
                    > things are not precise, as well), and you really might not know about
                    > charring wood within the wall until too late.
                    >
                    > As for stripping around glass on a window? Remove the glass. The putty
                    > holding the pane is probably in need a replacement anyway.
                    >
                    > --
                    > Will
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Evan Koblentz
                    Jeff J., Corey, and myself all did some museum work this week. We found some bad news, water-wise, about our warehouse area. Most important thing first:
                    Message 9 of 12 , Dec 11, 2013
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                      Jeff J., Corey, and myself all did some museum work this week. We found
                      some bad news, water-wise, about our warehouse area.

                      Most important thing first: nothing is damaged. A few boxes are slightly
                      wet, etc., but that's all.

                      What happened is the outside roof tarp gave way in the last storm. In
                      response to that, Jeff J. and I last week bought several smaller indoor
                      tarps to cover the vast majority of our equipment. We considered this
                      precautionary, because other than one specific corner, there aren't any
                      significant leaks on the half of the building where our storage resides.
                      All of the bad leaks are across the hall, which is mostly empty space
                      right now. Those are VERY bad, but they aren't impacting our collection.

                      The new tarps worked -- sort of. Rather than divert any water around our
                      shelving units and onto the floor, they "caught" water in some puddles
                      atop the tarps.

                      Jeff was there again this past Sunday and did what he could (he was
                      working alone) to tip that water off the tarps and onto the floor, which
                      is safer than it appears, because the shelving units are all several
                      inches off the floor due to their wheels/legs. Corey and I did another
                      round of that today.

                      The latest weather report calls for light snow on Saturday and rain on
                      Sunday. Corey volunteered to go to the museum at least once a week, for
                      the next couple of months, to continue the process if necessary.

                      I went to talk to Fred about all of this. He had mixed news for us.

                      The town council was supposed to discuss the roof bid/contract at their
                      meeting tonight. Now they aren't. Apparently they have 175K put aside
                      for the roofs (our section and six others), but the work estimate
                      increased into the 200s, so they're trying to find money for it. Fred
                      asked the town officials, "Why can't you just do what you can now [such
                      as MARCH's section -EK] and finish the rest later?" ... he's waiting for
                      an answer.

                      However, Fred also said he's ready and able to spend some InfoAge money
                      on new outdoor tarps for our building -- better ones than the previous
                      outdoor tarps -- and he's trying to make arrangements with the
                      contractor that does this work.

                      I'm trying to find out how much the better outdoor tarps cost. Maybe
                      MARCH could help InfoAge pay for it. Money tends to grease the wheels.

                      So, when some of you visit our storage area during Festivus (we'll do an
                      organized trip across campus), please "don't panic" as stated on the
                      cover of HHGG. It might look bad inside: giant leaks/puddles on the
                      empty side and possibly some small rivers between the aisles among our
                      shelving units. * We * put those rivers there ... it stinks, but it's
                      better than having the water atop our collection.

                      Given the cold, and the vast size of the building, there's no point in
                      running a small dehumidifier.

                      We always said that our collection, while in a building without HVAC, at
                      least had a solid roof, security, and a concrete floor. Right now we
                      really only have 2 of those 3 things. Our roof is in bad shape. The town
                      has the money earmarked to fix it but they're moving crazy slow.

                      Fred suggested that as an extra precaution we might be able to hang some
                      of the indoor tarps at an angle, rather than just laying them across the
                      top of the shelves, so they automatically divert water onto the floor. I
                      don't know if that will work because we have a lot of equipment in the room.

                      One half of our current half of the building has no leaks at all. We
                      just might stuff everything onto that side, temporarily, until there's a
                      better outer tarp and/or until the roof is fixed. I hope to avoid that
                      step because it would be massively inconvenient (we wouldn't be able to
                      get to anything) .... holding off on a decision for now.

                      There is also some unrelated good news.

                      - I heard back from "The Americans" prop folks. They're probably going
                      to do another rental from us after the new year.

                      - In the museum, Corey hung up a very nice (and extremely funny!) framed
                      puzzle of a cartoon computer that I built with my girlfriend, after Jeff
                      J. and I found it during a rescue mission several months ago. The puzzle
                      is colorful and looks great on our wall. Here it is a few months ago
                      before I framed it: http://snarc.net/puzzle.jpg and here it is now
                      hanging in the museum next to our IBM 1130: http://snarc.net/puzzle2.jpg.

                      - Corey and I also moved some clutter out of the way in the building
                      9059 event room where Festivus will be held. In addition, Corey dropped
                      off his own projecter; an Apple II+ loaded with games on a CF card; and
                      some adult beverages.

                      - InfoAge carpeted our museum hallway a few weeks ago. Much nicer than
                      hideous old tile! I would have preferred new clean tile, but it's still
                      an upgrade. Today I vacuumed the hallway and all four of our exhibit rooms.
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