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Re: [midatlanticretro] Re: TRS-80 (and in general hosting an archive)

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  • Bob Applegate
    First, IANAL, but I d follow these basic rules: (1) The code obviously can t be in production any more. Seems pretty obvious, and it s unlikely anything 20+
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 12 7:12 AM
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      First, IANAL, but I'd follow these basic rules:
       
        (1) The code obviously can't be in production any more.  Seems pretty obvious, and it's unlikely
      anything 20+ years old is still being sold.  Most of the companies are no longer around!
       
         (2) Give credit to the original author/distributor.
       
         (3) Make it clear that you'll remove anything if the author requests it, and make your contact info
      easy to find.
       
      I don't know why everyone is so scared of this topic.  I can buy copies of manuals for thousands of
      old products without a problem.  Nobody seems afraid of legal issues for selling old S-100 board
      manuals or old Heathkit stuff, so why be jittery over old code?  The manuals are copyrighted just like
      the code, so the same legal protection covers both.
       
      Anyone can sue anyone over anything.  If anyone gets sued over having old software on their web page,
      the first thing a lawyer would ask is "did you ask the person to remove it?"  If the answer is No, then
      there's basically zero chance of a case. 
       
      Put old stuff on-line... let's err on the side of making something available rather than being paranoid
      all the time.  I wrote some stuff many years ago that got published.  If any of it appeared on a web page,
      I'd be flattered and would offer encouragement to whoever posted it.
       
      Bob
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: B Degnan
      Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 9:53 AM
      Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Re: TRS-80 (and in general hosting an archive)


      > That brings up a good point. And a similarly good argument.
      >
      > There has long since been, and will continue to be, the concept of
      > abandonware or orphaned status of the various media for these aging
      > systems.
      >
      > Is this proposed archive of TRS-80 stuff, and maybe other systems as
      > well, a MARCH sanctioned venture? If so, I understand the more
      > protective stance of the legality of the archive. There will still be
      > the enthusiasts that will never see the stuff disappear, regardless of
      > legality. As good as the archive was, I'm sure some of the stuff in
      > Ira's archive fell in gray areas, legally.
      >

      There are two topics that vintage computer groups/lists cannot seem to
      handle:
      1. What is the definition of vintage computers?
      2. Archiving old software - how to make archives available to the public

      Go with your gut instincts and take action on your own. If you have a
      good plan, people will follow you.

      Bill

    • B Degnan
      ... My offer still stands to receive DVD s or CD s to host the files. Contact me directly. Bill
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 12 8:30 AM
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        > First, IANAL, but I'd follow these basic rules:
        >
        > (1) The code obviously can't be in production any more. Seems pretty
        > obvious, and it's unlikely
        > anything 20+ years old is still being sold. Most of the companies are no
        > longer around!
        >
        > (2) Give credit to the original author/distributor.
        >
        > (3) Make it clear that you'll remove anything if the author requests
        > it, and make your contact info
        > easy to find.
        >
        > I don't know why everyone is so scared of this topic. I can buy copies of
        > manuals for thousands of
        > old products without a problem. Nobody seems afraid of legal issues for
        > selling old S-100 board
        > manuals or old Heathkit stuff, so why be jittery over old code? The
        > manuals are copyrighted just like
        > the code, so the same legal protection covers both.
        >
        > Anyone can sue anyone over anything. If anyone gets sued over having old
        > software on their web page,
        > the first thing a lawyer would ask is "did you ask the person to remove
        > it?" If the answer is No, then
        > there's basically zero chance of a case.
        >
        > Put old stuff on-line... let's err on the side of making something
        > available rather than being paranoid
        > all the time. I wrote some stuff many years ago that got published. If
        > any of it appeared on a web page,
        > I'd be flattered and would offer encouragement to whoever posted it.
        >
        > Bob
        >
        >
        My offer still stands to receive DVD's or CD's to host the files. Contact
        me directly.

        Bill
      • John Allain
        ... Agree to all, or, at least points (1)..(3) John A. warning: interminable thread detected. Maybe everyone should be required to read
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 12 11:35 AM
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          > (1) The code obviously can't be in production any more...
          > (2) Give credit to the original author/distributor.
          > (3) Make it clear that you'll remove anything if the author requests it...
          <snip>

          Agree to all, or, at least points (1)..(3)

          John A.

          warning:
          interminable thread detected.
          Maybe everyone should be required to read
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonware
          before posting.
        • Evan Koblentz
          ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonware Good point! I ll read that tonight ... for now I have to (gasp) get back to work ... can t have too much personal
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 12 11:42 AM
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            >>> Maybe everyone should be required to read
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonware

            Good point! I'll read that tonight ... for now I have to (gasp) get back
            to work ... can't have too much personal email time in the office ya know.
          • Bob Applegate
            ... Lawyers have been arguing over copyright issues for years in Washington. A bunch of computer collectors will have zero impact. Bear in mind that MANY of
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 12 2:12 PM
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              Evan Koblentz <evan@...> wrote :


              > >>> a lesser effort to contact the publishers of the media to ask them to
              > declare the items officially abandoned.
              >
              > One of those time vs. resources things. MARCH's current mission is to:
              > foster interactivity among regional collectors, via this forum and our
              > events; and to foster public education via the museum. Waaaaay outside of
              > our resources and scope to become lobbyists of governments or
              > corporations. (Although I'd gladly sign us as a supporter to outside
              > efforts.)

              Lawyers have been arguing over copyright issues for years in Washington. A bunch
              of computer collectors will have zero impact.

              Bear in mind that MANY of the companies that used to sell old software are
              NO LONGER IN BUSINESS, so there's no easy way to contact them. Many of the
              founders are no longer alive either, so are we expected to contact the estates
              of these people for permission? Chances are that they'll have no idea what
              we're talking about.

              I don't understand why there is so much discussion about this. If you've
              got stuff you want to put on-line, just do it, make sure you give proper
              credit, and make it easy for the creator to contact you if they don't want
              it on-line. I've spoken to many well known software people of the late 70s
              who basically said they couldn't care less about what people do with their
              old stuff, but please don't bother them with any paperwork about it.

              Again, I'll stress that if you've ever copied an article from a magazine and
              gave it to someone else, you've almost certainly violated copyright laws.
              Why do people feel no concern over copying user manuals for old products, yet
              seem to have a moral problem with copying software? It's the same situation.

              Bob


              ___________________________________
              NOCC, http://nocc.sourceforge.net
            • Herb Johnson
              ... Washington. A bunch ... software are ... of the ... the estates ... idea what ... you ve ... don t want ... late 70s ... their ... magazine and ... laws.
              Message 6 of 12 , Jul 13 10:39 AM
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                --- Bob Applegate <bob@...> wrote:
                >
                > Lawyers have been arguing over copyright issues for years in
                Washington. A bunch
                > of computer collectors will have zero impact.
                >
                > Bear in mind that MANY of the companies that used to sell old
                software are
                > NO LONGER IN BUSINESS, so there's no easy way to contact them. Many
                of the
                > founders are no longer alive either, so are we expected to contact
                the estates
                > of these people for permission? Chances are that they'll have no
                idea what
                > we're talking about.
                >
                > I don't understand why there is so much discussion about this. If
                you've
                > got stuff you want to put on-line, just do it, make sure you give proper
                > credit, and make it easy for the creator to contact you if they
                don't want
                > it on-line. I've spoken to many well known software people of the
                late 70s
                > who basically said they couldn't care less about what people do with
                their
                > old stuff, but please don't bother them with any paperwork about it.
                >
                > Again, I'll stress that if you've ever copied an article from a
                magazine and
                > gave it to someone else, you've almost certainly violated copyright
                laws.
                > Why do people feel no concern over copying user manuals for old
                products, yet
                > seem to have a moral problem with copying software? It's the same
                situation.
                >
                > Bob

                I think there are different opinions on this subject, and I disagree
                with a number of Bob's assertions, but I see this as a LEGAL and
                ECONOMIC discussion and not a "moral" one. As for MARCH, it is a
                corporation, an organization and not just some person, so they are
                obliged to be cautious. And copying software is very different than
                copying documents about software, or hardware. I can't "run" a manual,
                a manual for a car can't be driven down the street.

                And talking to Congresspersons is a good idea; supporting groups who
                talk to Congress is good also. Cynics who disagree with this, means my
                voice has less competition.

                I don't know if Bob's last remark was meant for me, but I offer copies
                of manuals to individuals. If he has issues about what I do, spit out
                the specifics. But some people have some kind of problem with me,
                because I charge for my time, effort, costs, storage and so forth. I
                have no "moral" problems, to be brief about it. Most people thank me
                for offering my SERVICES: I don't just run a photocopier.

                For that matter, many sites which offer files for download have other
                considerations, and frankly other means of making money, as a
                consequence of having those files on site. But those who don't are
                hardly morally superior, they just have different priorities.

                Now, there is a consideration which has moral consequences. From time
                to time, I assert that the economic consequences of offering for free,
                whatothers offer based on costs and value, is to devalue that which is
                offered. Simple economics, check the current prices for most old
                computer manuals, most old software. And the economic consequences of
                that, in my opinion and experience, is that it DISCOURAGES people from
                saving or archiving such materials and items. Factually, it
                discourages me from buying manuals or software, because it has no
                economic value, I can't recover my costs, I can't "sell" it or copies
                of it. So a lot of this stuff is thrown out, or scanned and thrown out
                at best.

                Some people see this as a problem, others see this as an opportunity.
                Cheap scanning, cheap Web sites - scan everything, give it away, to
                "preserve" it. Others see that free imaging reduces the value of a
                collection to zero, and so don't bother to collect it in the first
                place. Others are in between: their bit of collecting and use is
                supported by free sites and by dealers who sell them stuff. That's the
                economics of it, to me.

                So here's how I see it. After a few hundred documents or files, in my
                opinion one is obliged to be thoughtful about what they are doing, why
                and with what considerations, with what consequences, at what costs.
                Given than ANYONE can archive a bunch of files, the REAL question
                becomes: What value can YOU, or your organization, add to a mere
                collection of stuff, or copies of stuff? I think about this all the
                time, because times change.

                Herb Johnson

                Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
                http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/ web site
                http://www.retrotechnology.net/herbs_stuff/ domain mirror
                my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
                if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
                "Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
                S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"
              • Bob Applegate
                My comments were general in nature and not directed at anyone. They were simply a statement of fact. I ve bought manuals for Heathkits and many other pieces
                Message 7 of 12 , Jul 13 12:01 PM
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                  My comments were general in nature and not directed at anyone.  They were simply a statement of fact. 
                  I've bought manuals for Heathkits and many other pieces of equipment over the years from many sources,
                  and I one asked one fellow if he had permission to do so... his answer was "No."  However, since the
                  companies whose manuals he sold were out of business, he ddn't view it as a problem.  If someone asked
                  him to stop, he would.
                   
                  Whether you can run it or not makes no difference.  If it's copyrighted, it's copyrighted.  You said it was a
                  LEGAL issue, and I agree... both cases are illegal.  Saying you can't drive the manual and therefore is
                  different is a moral issue.
                   
                  If someone were to say to MARCH (or any other group/person): "You've got my copyrighted material on
                  your page and I intend to sue" that's a threat.  You solve the problem by removing it.  If they sue without
                  any warning, their lawyers know they won't win in court in there isn't monetary gain involved and since they
                  didn't issue a warning.  If you offered to SELL someone else's copyrighted material, that's different.  Good
                  luck in court ;-)
                   
                  Bob
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 1:39 PM
                  Subject: [midatlanticretro] Re: TRS-80 (and in general hosting an archive)

                  --- Bob Applegate <bob@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Lawyers have been arguing over copyright issues for years in
                  Washington. A bunch
                  > of computer collectors will have zero impact.
                  >
                  > Bear in mind that MANY of the companies that used to sell old
                  software are
                  > NO LONGER IN BUSINESS, so there's no easy way to contact them. Many
                  of the
                  > founders are no longer alive either, so are we expected to contact
                  the estates
                  > of these people for permission? Chances are that they'll have no
                  idea what
                  > we're talking about.
                  >
                  > I don't understand why there is so much discussion about this. If
                  you've
                  > got stuff you want to put on-line, just do it, make sure you give proper
                  > credit, and make it easy for the creator to contact you if they
                  don't want
                  > it on-line. I've spoken to many well known software people of the
                  late 70s
                  > who basically said they couldn't care less about what people do with
                  their
                  > old stuff, but please don't bother them with any paperwork about it.
                  >
                  > Again, I'll stress that if you've ever copied an article from a
                  magazine and
                  > gave it to someone else, you've almost certainly violated copyright
                  laws.
                  > Why do people feel no concern over copying user manuals for old
                  products, yet
                  > seem to have a moral problem with copying software? It's the same
                  situation.
                  >
                  > Bob

                  I think there are different opinions on this subject, and I disagree
                  with a number of Bob's assertions, but I see this as a LEGAL and
                  ECONOMIC discussion and not a "moral" one. As for MARCH, it is a
                  corporation, an organization and not just some person, so they are
                  obliged to be cautious. And copying software is very different than
                  copying documents about software, or hardware. I can't "run" a manual,
                  a manual for a car can't be driven down the street.

                  And talking to Congresspersons is a good idea; supporting groups who
                  talk to Congress is good also. Cynics who disagree with this, means my
                  voice has less competition.

                  I don't know if Bob's last remark was meant for me, but I offer copies
                  of manuals to individuals. If he has issues about what I do, spit out
                  the specifics. But some people have some kind of problem with me,
                  because I charge for my time, effort, costs, storage and so forth. I
                  have no "moral" problems, to be brief about it. Most people thank me
                  for offering my SERVICES: I don't just run a photocopier.

                  For that matter, many sites which offer files for download have other
                  considerations, and frankly other means of making money, as a
                  consequence of having those files on site. But those who don't are
                  hardly morally superior, they just have different priorities.

                  Now, there is a consideration which has moral consequences. From time
                  to time, I assert that the economic consequences of offering for free,
                  whatothers offer based on costs and value, is to devalue that which is
                  offered. Simple economics, check the current prices for most old
                  computer manuals, most old software. And the economic consequences of
                  that, in my opinion and experience, is that it DISCOURAGES people from
                  saving or archiving such materials and items. Factually, it
                  discourages me from buying manuals or software, because it has no
                  economic value, I can't recover my costs, I can't "sell" it or copies
                  of it. So a lot of this stuff is thrown out, or scanned and thrown out
                  at best.

                  Some people see this as a problem, others see this as an opportunity.
                  Cheap scanning, cheap Web sites - scan everything, give it away, to
                  "preserve" it. Others see that free imaging reduces the value of a
                  collection to zero, and so don't bother to collect it in the first
                  place. Others are in between: their bit of collecting and use is
                  supported by free sites and by dealers who sell them stuff. That's the
                  economics of it, to me.

                  So here's how I see it. After a few hundred documents or files, in my
                  opinion one is obliged to be thoughtful about what they are doing, why
                  and with what considerations, with what consequences, at what costs.
                  Given than ANYONE can archive a bunch of files, the REAL question
                  becomes: What value can YOU, or your organization, add to a mere
                  collection of stuff, or copies of stuff? I think about this all the
                  time, because times change.

                  Herb Johnson

                  Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
                  http://www.retrotec hnology.com/ herbs_stuff/ web site
                  http://www.retrotec hnology.net/ herbs_stuff/ domain mirror
                  my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
                  if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
                  "Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
                  S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"

                • Evan Koblentz
                  Herb, I don t think anyone was targeting anyone else specifically. Except for that Koblentz guy, we should target him, what a weenie... oh wait... shit!
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jul 13 12:01 PM
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                    Herb, I don't think anyone was targeting anyone else specifically.

                    Except for that Koblentz guy, we should target him, what a weenie... oh
                    wait... shit!


                    > --- Bob Applegate <bob@...> wrote:
                    >>
                    >> Lawyers have been arguing over copyright issues for years in
                    > Washington. A bunch
                    >> of computer collectors will have zero impact.
                    >>
                    >> Bear in mind that MANY of the companies that used to sell old
                    > software are
                    >> NO LONGER IN BUSINESS, so there's no easy way to contact them. Many
                    > of the
                    >> founders are no longer alive either, so are we expected to contact
                    > the estates
                    >> of these people for permission? Chances are that they'll have no
                    > idea what
                    >> we're talking about.
                    >>
                    >> I don't understand why there is so much discussion about this. If
                    > you've
                    >> got stuff you want to put on-line, just do it, make sure you give proper
                    >> credit, and make it easy for the creator to contact you if they
                    > don't want
                    >> it on-line. I've spoken to many well known software people of the
                    > late 70s
                    >> who basically said they couldn't care less about what people do with
                    > their
                    >> old stuff, but please don't bother them with any paperwork about it.
                    >>
                    >> Again, I'll stress that if you've ever copied an article from a
                    > magazine and
                    >> gave it to someone else, you've almost certainly violated copyright
                    > laws.
                    >> Why do people feel no concern over copying user manuals for old
                    > products, yet
                    >> seem to have a moral problem with copying software? It's the same
                    > situation.
                    >>
                    >> Bob
                    >
                    > I think there are different opinions on this subject, and I disagree
                    > with a number of Bob's assertions, but I see this as a LEGAL and
                    > ECONOMIC discussion and not a "moral" one. As for MARCH, it is a
                    > corporation, an organization and not just some person, so they are
                    > obliged to be cautious. And copying software is very different than
                    > copying documents about software, or hardware. I can't "run" a manual,
                    > a manual for a car can't be driven down the street.
                    >
                    > And talking to Congresspersons is a good idea; supporting groups who
                    > talk to Congress is good also. Cynics who disagree with this, means my
                    > voice has less competition.
                    >
                    > I don't know if Bob's last remark was meant for me, but I offer copies
                    > of manuals to individuals. If he has issues about what I do, spit out
                    > the specifics. But some people have some kind of problem with me,
                    > because I charge for my time, effort, costs, storage and so forth. I
                    > have no "moral" problems, to be brief about it. Most people thank me
                    > for offering my SERVICES: I don't just run a photocopier.
                    >
                    > For that matter, many sites which offer files for download have other
                    > considerations, and frankly other means of making money, as a
                    > consequence of having those files on site. But those who don't are
                    > hardly morally superior, they just have different priorities.
                    >
                    > Now, there is a consideration which has moral consequences. From time
                    > to time, I assert that the economic consequences of offering for free,
                    > whatothers offer based on costs and value, is to devalue that which is
                    > offered. Simple economics, check the current prices for most old
                    > computer manuals, most old software. And the economic consequences of
                    > that, in my opinion and experience, is that it DISCOURAGES people from
                    > saving or archiving such materials and items. Factually, it
                    > discourages me from buying manuals or software, because it has no
                    > economic value, I can't recover my costs, I can't "sell" it or copies
                    > of it. So a lot of this stuff is thrown out, or scanned and thrown out
                    > at best.
                    >
                    > Some people see this as a problem, others see this as an opportunity.
                    > Cheap scanning, cheap Web sites - scan everything, give it away, to
                    > "preserve" it. Others see that free imaging reduces the value of a
                    > collection to zero, and so don't bother to collect it in the first
                    > place. Others are in between: their bit of collecting and use is
                    > supported by free sites and by dealers who sell them stuff. That's the
                    > economics of it, to me.
                    >
                    > So here's how I see it. After a few hundred documents or files, in my
                    > opinion one is obliged to be thoughtful about what they are doing, why
                    > and with what considerations, with what consequences, at what costs.
                    > Given than ANYONE can archive a bunch of files, the REAL question
                    > becomes: What value can YOU, or your organization, add to a mere
                    > collection of stuff, or copies of stuff? I think about this all the
                    > time, because times change.
                    >
                    > Herb Johnson
                    >
                    > Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
                    > http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/ web site
                    > http://www.retrotechnology.net/herbs_stuff/ domain mirror
                    > my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
                    > if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
                    > "Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
                    > S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Herb Johnson
                    ... were simply a statement of fact. I disagree. But I won t make a long lecture out of it. Bob, you don t own the facts, you have opinions and judgements
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jul 14 12:53 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- "Bob Applegate" <bob@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > My comments were general in nature and not directed at anyone. They
                      were simply a statement of fact.

                      I disagree. But I won't make a long lecture out of it. Bob, you don't
                      own the facts, you have opinions and judgements ABOUT facts. And I'm a
                      dealer; your remarks are about dealers; therefore they are about me,
                      and I'm insulted. But this is your problem and not mine. Don't buy
                      items you believe are illegal, if that is what you believe - case
                      dismissed. Have a nice day!

                      I believe MARCH's maillist is not the place for legal discussions,
                      mock trials, or insults. I have nothing futher to say, debating
                      further in this direction is not productive. Not a fact of course, but
                      maybe a good judgement.

                      Herb Johnson

                      Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
                      http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/ web site
                      http://www.retrotechnology.net/herbs_stuff/ domain mirror
                      my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
                      if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
                      "Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
                      S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"
                    • William Donzelli
                      ... No, it is not. Pretty much any legal advice from those that are not practicing lawyers is worthless. My (non-legal) advice is that MARCH, being a 501c
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jul 14 1:42 PM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        > I believe MARCH's maillist is not the place for legal discussions,

                        No, it is not. Pretty much any legal advice from those that are not
                        practicing lawyers is worthless.

                        My (non-legal) advice is that MARCH, being a 501c organization
                        (right?), should talk to some of the New Jersey lawfirms. Many of the
                        larger ones *require* associates to do X numbers of hours per month
                        pro bono. Certainly there should be one out there, perhaps one that
                        deals with IP, that would give free expert advice "for the public
                        good".

                        --
                        Will
                      • Herb Johnson
                        ... Bob has assured me privately that he did not intend any insults, and I accept that. I also apologize for misinterpreting his intentions, and for my
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jul 16 8:46 AM
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                          "Herb Johnson" <hjohnson@...> wrote:

                          > I believe MARCH's maillist is not the place for legal discussions,
                          > mock trials, or insults. I have nothing futher to say, debating
                          > further in this direction is not productive....
                          >
                          > Herb Johnson

                          Bob has assured me privately that he did not intend any insults, and I
                          accept that. I also apologize for misinterpreting his intentions, and
                          for my response. He's a good fellow, as am I.

                          I agree with Bob that disputes are rare and are often resolved when
                          the material in question is removed. Most people like to see their
                          oldest work become available. But as a practical matter I don't
                          believe it makes a difference if you charge for it, or not. Bottom
                          line: I get annoyed when dealers are called out over those who offer
                          material freely, and that is why I initially took offense.

                          I also agree with Evan to "table this whole archiving thing". Take any
                          issues to private discussion.

                          Herb Johnson

                          Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
                          http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/ web site
                          http://www.retrotechnology.net/herbs_stuff/ domain mirror
                          my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
                          if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
                          "Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
                          S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"
                        • Hex Star
                          If someone (this group?) eventually is able to get a server running in a datacenter I ll be willing to send them a copy of all the files I have as it d be nice
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jul 17 7:58 PM
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                            If someone (this group?) eventually is able to get a server running in a datacenter I'll be willing to send them a copy of all the files I have as it'd be nice to have a high bandwidth datacenter server hosting the files...home ISP accounts don't exactly have the best upload bandwidth allotment but I do what I can :)
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