Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: TRS-80 (and in general hosting an archive)

Expand Messages
  • relayer
    That brings up a good point. And a similarly good argument. There has long since been, and will continue to be, the concept of abandonware or orphaned status
    Message 1 of 20 , Jul 12 4:28 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      That brings up a good point. And a similarly good argument.

      There has long since been, and will continue to be, the concept of
      abandonware or orphaned status of the various media for these aging
      systems.

      Is this proposed archive of TRS-80 stuff, and maybe other systems as
      well, a MARCH sanctioned venture? If so, I understand the more
      protective stance of the legality of the archive. There will still be
      the enthusiasts that will never see the stuff disappear, regardless of
      legality. As good as the archive was, I'm sure some of the stuff in
      Ira's archive fell in gray areas, legally.

      Personally, I'd like to see MARCH spearhead an effort to preserve
      these archives. I also don't want to see the organization get into
      trouble.

      Maybe this topic could be a catalyst for MARCH to possibly start a
      lobbying effort in Washington to lobby for the legality of archiving
      this historical media. I'm sure it would be easy to prove that the
      majority of books and software has long since been abandoned.

      Even if MARCH cannot lobby Washington, maybe a lesser effort to
      contact the publishers of the media to ask them to declare the items
      officially abandoned.

      --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "Evan Koblentz" <evan@...> wrote:
      >
      > That said, keep the PDF sizes reasonable.
      > >
      > > Bill
      >
      > Legal, too, please...
      >
    • B Degnan
      ... There are two topics that vintage computer groups/lists cannot seem to handle: 1. What is the definition of vintage computers? 2. Archiving old software
      Message 2 of 20 , Jul 12 6:53 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        > That brings up a good point. And a similarly good argument.
        >
        > There has long since been, and will continue to be, the concept of
        > abandonware or orphaned status of the various media for these aging
        > systems.
        >
        > Is this proposed archive of TRS-80 stuff, and maybe other systems as
        > well, a MARCH sanctioned venture? If so, I understand the more
        > protective stance of the legality of the archive. There will still be
        > the enthusiasts that will never see the stuff disappear, regardless of
        > legality. As good as the archive was, I'm sure some of the stuff in
        > Ira's archive fell in gray areas, legally.
        >

        There are two topics that vintage computer groups/lists cannot seem to
        handle:
        1. What is the definition of vintage computers?
        2. Archiving old software - how to make archives available to the public

        Go with your gut instincts and take action on your own. If you have a
        good plan, people will follow you.

        Bill
      • Ray Sills
        That s always an issue with old software. One way the software might be able to be legally archived is simply to get permission from the copyright holders. I
        Message 3 of 20 , Jul 12 7:39 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          That's always an issue with old software. One way the software might
          be able to be legally
          archived is simply to get permission from the copyright holders. I
          had a case one with a
          software author who decided that his business was going nowhere and
          that there was no
          further need to keep his work protected, and he even -released- the
          software into the
          public domain.

          If current copyright holders are dubious about that, all that would
          be needed to do is to
          secure a license to archive the material. Perhaps if the copyright
          holder were assured that
          the material would simply be archived, the original copyright notice
          kept in place,and
          the software would not be modified, sold, and not incorporated into
          any subsequent work, etc.,
          then a license for archival use could be obtained. And therefore,
          the archive would be legal.

          73 de Ray



          On Jul 12, 2007, at 7:28 AM, relayer wrote:

          > That brings up a good point. And a similarly good argument.
          >
          > There has long since been, and will continue to be, the concept of
          > abandonware or orphaned status of the various media for these aging
          > systems.
          >
          > Is this proposed archive of TRS-80 stuff, and maybe other systems as
          > well, a MARCH sanctioned venture? If so, I understand the more
          > protective stance of the legality of the archive. There will still be
          > the enthusiasts that will never see the stuff disappear, regardless of
          > legality. As good as the archive was, I'm sure some of the stuff in
          > Ira's archive fell in gray areas, legally.
          >
          > Personally, I'd like to see MARCH spearhead an effort to preserve
          > these archives. I also don't want to see the organization get into
          > trouble.
          >
          > Maybe this topic could be a catalyst for MARCH to possibly start a
          > lobbying effort in Washington to lobby for the legality of archiving
          > this historical media. I'm sure it would be easy to prove that the
          > majority of books and software has long since been abandoned.
          >
          > Even if MARCH cannot lobby Washington, maybe a lesser effort to
          > contact the publishers of the media to ask them to declare the items
          > officially abandoned.
          >
          > --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "Evan Koblentz" <evan@...>
          > wrote:
          >>
          >> That said, keep the PDF sizes reasonable.
          >>>
          >>> Bill
          >>
          >> Legal, too, please...
          >>
          >
        • B Degnan
          At the University of Delaware, the Educational Use rule seems to cover all materials that are copied and sold as binded books for students. Why would a web
          Message 4 of 20 , Jul 12 11:05 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            At the University of Delaware, the "Educational Use" rule seems to cover
            all materials that are copied and sold as binded "books" for students.
            Why would a web site that provides educational/research be any different?

            what is the difference between code and copies?

            Bill
          • Hex Star
            Hello, I already have copies of Ira s archive and its contents as well as many other vintage computing files on my server, access details follow below...
            Message 5 of 20 , Jul 12 11:24 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              Hello, I already have copies of Ira's archive and its contents as well as many other vintage computing files on my server, access details follow below...

              Protocol: KDX (for more information including download links go to http://haxial.com/products/kdx/)
              Address: kdxvcfa.dyndns.ws
              Username: none needed
              Password: none needed

              Just click File Browser on the left hand side once connected and enjoy! :) ( P.S. You can always find what you want if you have something specific in mind by searching the files, to do this first open the File Browser and then press ctrl+s for PCs or cmd+s on macs)
            • Evan Koblentz
              Yes, we know. Already been discussed.
              Message 6 of 20 , Jul 12 11:29 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                Yes, we know. Already been discussed.

                > Hello, I already have copies of Ira's archive and its contents as well as
                > many other vintage computing files on my server, access details follow
                > below...
                >
                > Protocol: KDX (for more information including download links go to
                > http://haxial.com/products/kdx/)
                > Address: kdxvcfa.dyndns.ws
                > Username: none needed
                > Password: none needed
                >
                > Just click File Browser on the left hand side once connected and enjoy! :)
                > (
                > P.S. You can always find what you want if you have something specific in
                > mind by searching the files, to do this first open the File Browser and
                > then
                > press ctrl+s for PCs or cmd+s on macs)
                >
              • Evan Koblentz
                I believe most major publishers, acting on their own, make specific copyright exceptions for accredited educational institutions. We re not one.
                Message 7 of 20 , Jul 12 11:30 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  I believe most major publishers, acting on their own, make specific
                  copyright exceptions for accredited educational institutions. We're not
                  one.



                  > At the University of Delaware, the "Educational Use" rule seems to cover
                  > all materials that are copied and sold as binded "books" for students.
                  > Why would a web site that provides educational/research be any different?
                  >
                  > what is the difference between code and copies?
                  >
                  > Bill
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Evan Koblentz
                  ... well, a MARCH sanctioned venture? Nope. We haven t made any such decision. Which is one reason why the material can t be on our server -- hosting it
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jul 12 11:37 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    >>> Is this proposed archive of TRS-80 stuff, and maybe other systems as
                    well, a MARCH sanctioned venture?

                    Nope. We haven't made any such decision. Which is one reason why the
                    material can't be on our server -- hosting it would imply endorsement.

                    >>> Personally, I'd like to see MARCH spearhead an effort to preserve
                    these archives. I also don't want to see the organization get into
                    trouble.

                    I agree with both of those statements.

                    >>> Maybe this topic could be a catalyst for MARCH to possibly start a
                    lobbying effort in Washington ... I'm sure it would be easy to prove
                    that the majority of books and software has long since been abandoned.

                    I like you, but ... are you serious!?!?

                    >>> a lesser effort to contact the publishers of the media to ask them to
                    declare the items officially abandoned.

                    One of those time vs. resources things. MARCH's current mission is to:
                    foster interactivity among regional collectors, via this forum and our
                    events; and to foster public education via the museum. Waaaaay outside of
                    our resources and scope to become lobbyists of governments or
                    corporations. (Although I'd gladly sign us as a supporter to outside
                    efforts.)
                  • madodel
                    ... I was told IBM looked into open sourcing OS/2 source code. Their lawyers estimated it would cost about $500,000 to track down and get releases from all
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jul 12 6:47 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Evan Koblentz wrote:

                      >
                      >>>> a lesser effort to contact the publishers of the media to ask them to
                      > declare the items officially abandoned.
                      >
                      > One of those time vs. resources things. MARCH's current mission is to:
                      > foster interactivity among regional collectors, via this forum and our
                      > events; and to foster public education via the museum. Waaaaay outside of
                      > our resources and scope to become lobbyists of governments or
                      > corporations. (Although I'd gladly sign us as a supporter to outside
                      > efforts.)
                      >

                      I was told IBM looked into open sourcing OS/2 source code. Their lawyers
                      estimated it would cost about $500,000 to track down and get releases from
                      all the copyright holders who had been contracted to provide code for parts
                      of the operating system (things like many of the included drivers, fonts,
                      and other things which were not written 100% by IBM). Many of original
                      entities were defunct, so tracking down most of the current copyright
                      holders might have been impossible anyway. So IBM decided that it wasn't
                      worth the cost. That is what I was told by an IBMer who was in a position
                      to know. It had nothing to do with Microsoft which is what most people
                      seem to believe. Also some companies still pay IBM to maintain a line of
                      OS/2 source code just for them, so even though it is no longer publicly
                      marketed, it is still bringing in revenue to IBM.

                      If IBM can't afford the effort I doubt most anyone can. Unless the
                      software was entirely written by one entity and had no inclusive
                      copyrighted source from anyone else I don't think this is realistic.
                      Perhaps some of the really old stuff from the days when software and
                      manuals were written by a small company or group of developers might be
                      easy to get a release from, but I would think things like the TRS and Apple
                      would fall under the same problems as IBM.

                      Mark


                      --

                      From the eComStation Desktop of: Mark Dodel

                      Warpstock 2007 - Toronto, Ontario, Canada: http://www.warpstock.org
                      Warpstock Europe - http://www.warpstock.net


                      For a choice in the future of personal computing, Join VOICE -
                      http://www.os2voice.org

                      "The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the
                      growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their
                      democratic State itself. That in it's essence, is Fascism - ownership of
                      government by an individual, by a group or by any controlling private
                      power." Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Message proposing the Monopoly
                      Investigation, 1938
                    • Hex Star
                      ... Hello, if you have stuff you d like to upload so that the whole community can enjoy the content at any time my server is a great candidate, simply connect
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jul 13 9:26 PM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        On 7/11/07, relayer <relayer@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I saw posts about attempts to help rebuild the TRS-80 collection that
                        > used to be available to people. It was suggested in this group to wait
                        > till after VCF to raise the subject again. It is now post-VCF.
                        >
                        > I've been collecting classic computers since 1996, about the same time
                        > I discovered emulation. In those many years, I've managed to gather
                        > stuff together. A bit here and a bit there to allow me to take
                        > advantage of the fun classic computers have to offer whether it's for
                        > a real device or through emulation.
                        >
                        > Someone mentioned having a server to host files for a reborn TRS-80
                        > archive. How can I help?
                        >
                        > Contact me privately if you wish, but if your replies would benefit
                        > the MARCH collective, please keep them public.
                        >


                        Hello, if you have stuff you'd like to upload so that the whole
                        community can enjoy the content at any time my server is a great
                        candidate, simply connect to my server with the following information
                        then click File Browser on the left hand side, open the Uploads
                        folder, use the right button menu to create a folder for your files
                        and use the right click menu to upload your files into that folder.
                        People will be able to access the uploaded files 24/7 even before I
                        sort them, so if you want a solution that has the community in mind my
                        server is the way to go :) ...here are the connection details:

                        Protocol: KDX (for more information including download links go here:
                        http://haxial.com/products/kdx/)
                        Address: kdxvcfa.dyndns.ws
                        Username: none needed
                        Password: none needed
                      • Evan
                        We are not (yet) are 501c3 but we are a non-profit corporation in NJ. InfoAge itself already has the 501c3 status and gets its legal services free from the
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jul 14 2:13 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          We are not (yet) are 501c3 but we are a non-profit corporation in NJ. InfoAge itself already has the 501c3 status and gets its legal services free from the Wall Township attorney. I can look into this further if necessary.

                          For now may we please table this whole archiving thing?
                        • Evan
                          Our group will NOT be hosting and mass file archives, especially yours.
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jul 17 8:11 PM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Our group will NOT be hosting and mass file archives, especially yours.
                          • Evan
                            Oops I meant any not and ...
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jul 17 8:54 PM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Oops I meant "any" not "and" ...
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.