Re: [midatlanticretro] Re: Building a computer (May or may not be OT)
- I'd prefer to see you succeed as well, which I why I'd strongly suggest you
with a known computer rather than just winging it on your own.
Put me down for ANOTHER $25 contribution. However, mine is hanging on the
6 work hours combined from Jack and Joe. Ie, work 3 hours and you get $25
towards your KIM. Do an extra 3 hours and you'll have $75.
Someone let me know when he hits his 6 hours!
Joe, have you ever used a KIM-1? My guess is no. Before you go out and
try to add a TVT-II and all sorts of add-ons, can I suggest that you learn
the machine first? Why screw up a perfectly running system when thousands
of other engineers learned their way on a simple KIM? My wife, kids, nice
house, collection of antique computers, nice cars and everything else I have
now are the result of mastering the KIM-1 when I was 16 years old. It's a
trusted friend that has tought me a lot. Take the time to learn it and
be a better engineer as a result!
Good books for 6502 programming:
Microcomputer Systesm Principles Featuring the 6502/KIM
by Camp, Smay and Triska
The First Book of KIM (FBOK)
Butterfield, Ockers, Rehnke, etc, etc, etc
Magazines that you might find on eBay:
Micro - this is an all 6502 magazine
There were also three books incldued with the original KIM, one
owner's manual, a hardware manual and a software manual. I
see them used on eBay from time to time.
The instruction set is very well documented on-line, so you don't need any
books... just study code. You're programs will stink at first, but getting
to work is the fun part!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Giliberti" <Starbase89@...>
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 2:15 AM
Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Re: Building a computer (May or may not be
> This does sound like a sweet deal. One or two MARCH workdays are not
> something I wouldn't otherwise do. As far as the kit goes, if you could
> it sooner, that would be great, but if not, just get the components and
> take care of the PC board myself through wirewrapping. I just bought some
> perf board and some components to build a basic digital clock from
> RadioShit. Going to work on that this week. Hopefully all will go well.
> Thanks again
> On 6/16/07, Evan Koblentz <evan@...> wrote:
>> That's a sweet deal, Joe. I'll match it. Put in another three hours
>> (which if you think about it, is only just one normal MARCH workday,
>> which you often participate in anyhow) and then you'll have fifty bucks
>> toward the kit. If you accept, then I'll ping Vince and see if he can
>> get you a kit before August so you have all summer to use it.
>> Just remember us little people when you're a famous engineer someday!
>> Here's an offer - I'll "contribute" $25 toward the purchase of a
>> Micro-KIM if you put in 3 hours of community service time at
>> MARCH/InfoAge. Going to a baseball game with Evan does _not_ count as
>> community service!
>> If you're interested, I'll ask Vince Briel (the MK builder) to set up
>> an account for you; when you're fully paid he'll send you the kit.
- Like many discussion threads, this one is going in several directions.
1) University libaries. People local to a university can often get
limited privledges by paying a deposit, or an annual fee. Check the
library's Web site for more information, or ask a "senior" staffer at
the library (student staff may not know this stuff). University
libraries are good sources for books a few decades old. But you won't
get "interlibrary loan" privledges as a "depositer" at a Univ. library
- but you can do that from your local public library.
2) The microKIM uses a few odd parts, and of course some ROMS. Joe, if
you make one from scratch, better plan on a way to get those ROMS, and
make sure you can get ALL the chips on the schematic. The ROM source
and binaries are available from the microKIM site.
For fun, if you do make a list of parts and prices, I'd be curious to
know the total. Betcha the kit price will be close to your onesie's
parts prices! ;)
3) The microKIM does not normally have a cassette port; programs are
downloaded from the serial port, which one would generally connect to
a PC where you can load and save programs in hex format. Consequently,
using a PC with the microKIM is just fine. But you can of course load
programs in hex from the keypad.
My advice was to program from the keypad, by the way, as a way to
learn coding at the bit level. That seemed to be your interest.
4) Building a TV Typewriter, or the II, will be harder than building
the microKIM from scratch. I'm not sure what your objectives or
priorities are, my apologies.
5) Please read the microKIM manual to get a better idea of what you'll
need to use it. If it's not on the Web site, ask for a copy from the
seller. Chances are he'll send a file, or if he charges for a printed
version he'll deduct it from your kit purchase.
This ends my advice. Joe, you are a good guy, but you want to do many
things for many reasons. That's fine, but it's more than an old guy
like me can keep up with. No disrespect meant.
Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/ web site
http://www.retrotechnology.net/herbs_stuff/ domain mirror
my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
"Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"