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Re: [midatlanticretro] TRS-80 software

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  • ysgdhio
    ... Weird. Anyone know what happened?
    Message 1 of 30 , May 31 4:06 PM
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      On 5/31/07, Mike Loewen <mloewen@...> wrote:
      > With the removal of the manual and software downloads from Ira
      > Goldklang's site,

      Weird. Anyone know what happened?
    • Mike Loewen
      ... I don t have all the details, but at least part of it was because some unscrupulous types made a contribution to Ira in exchange for a 4-DVD set of all the
      Message 2 of 30 , May 31 4:26 PM
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        On Thu, 31 May 2007, ysgdhio wrote:

        > On 5/31/07, Mike Loewen <mloewen@...> wrote:
        >> With the removal of the manual and software downloads from Ira
        >> Goldklang's site,
        >
        > Weird. Anyone know what happened?

        I don't have all the details, but at least part of it was because some
        unscrupulous types made a contribution to Ira in exchange for a 4-DVD set
        of all the online manuals, only to turn around and start selling copies on
        Ebay. See the news link on Ira's site for more info.


        Mike Loewen mloewen@...
        Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
      • B. Degnan
        ... No. I was in contact with Ira about 6 weeks ago. Everything seemed OK. I wonder if someone started selling CD s of the contents of his web site, and he
        Message 3 of 30 , May 31 9:15 PM
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          At 07:06 PM 5/31/2007 -0400, you wrote:
          >On 5/31/07, Mike Loewen <mloewen@...> wrote:
          > > With the removal of the manual and software downloads from Ira
          > > Goldklang's site,
          >
          >Weird. Anyone know what happened?


          No. I was in contact with Ira about 6 weeks ago. Everything seemed OK. I
          wonder if someone started selling CD's of the contents of his web site, and
          he got kind of pi&&ed about it, and shut down his site. This is my guess.

          Bill
        • Ray Sills
          Its a shame that a useful resource like Ira s is not on line because of something like what you describe. Perhaps people who put things like that on line
          Message 4 of 30 , Jun 1, 2007
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            Its a shame that a useful resource like Ira's is not on line because
            of something like what you describe.

            Perhaps people who put things like that on line should require those
            who download material to
            jump through the "I accept the terms" hoops so provide some sort of
            legal agreement as to who owns
            what, and what can be done with the material. Some freeware authors,
            even though they give away
            the software, nevertheless have it protected under copyright, so no
            one can legally do other things with
            the software without permission.

            73 de Ray

            On Jun 1, 2007, at 12:15 AM, B. Degnan wrote:

            > At 07:06 PM 5/31/2007 -0400, you wrote:
            >> On 5/31/07, Mike Loewen <mloewen@...> wrote:
            >>> With the removal of the manual and software downloads from Ira
            >>> Goldklang's site,
            >>
            >> Weird. Anyone know what happened?
            >
            >
            > No. I was in contact with Ira about 6 weeks ago. Everything
            > seemed OK. I
            > wonder if someone started selling CD's of the contents of his web
            > site, and
            > he got kind of pi&&ed about it, and shut down his site. This is my
            > guess.
            >
            > Bill
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
          • ysgdhio
            ... A nice thought, but doesn t Radio Shack own this stuff? I can understand Ira s frustration at having someone profit from what he s collected, but shutting
            Message 5 of 30 , Jun 1, 2007
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              On 6/1/07, Ray Sills <raysills@...> wrote:
              > Perhaps people who put things like that on line should require those
              > who download material to jump through the "I accept the terms" hoops
              > so provide some sort of legal agreement as to who owns what,

              A nice thought, but doesn't Radio Shack own this stuff?

              I can understand Ira's frustration at having someone profit from what
              he's collected, but shutting off downloads is the wrong thing to do,
              because it effectively
              makes those DVDs more valuable. If potential customers are made aware
              that the same
              material is available for free, they might not buy the DVD, especially
              if they're only
              looking for a couple of files.

              In any event, this sort of thing makes me sad.

              Andy
            • John Allain
              ... A bad problem, and, the best solution I ve yet heard. Just change the owns to can have . Next problem: what to do with the people who sign in and still
              Message 6 of 30 , Jun 1, 2007
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                > Perhaps people who put things like that on line should require those
                > who download material to jump through the "I accept the terms" hoops
                > so provide some sort of legal agreement as to who owns what, and
                > what can be done with the material. -- Ray

                A bad problem, and, the best solution I've yet heard.
                Just change the "owns" to "can have".
                Next problem: what to do with the people who sign in and
                still sell the copies. The 'hoops' will filter out a fair number
                of potential violators right away though.

                Saying you can have it but you can't own it on your terms
                will not sit well with large numbers of people,
                like me with a EULA insisting on transferring computers without software.

                John A.
              • Hex Star
                I am very interested in her archive of files and also hope that Ira brings back his/her archive of vintage files for all of us to enjoy. Especially since I d
                Message 7 of 30 , Jun 2, 2007
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                  I am very interested in her archive of files and also hope that Ira brings back his/her archive of vintage files for all of us to enjoy. Especially since I'd love to mirror the files on my kdx server ( kdxvcfa.dyndns.ws) so as to avoid there from being a single point of failure...hopefully someday Ira will be so kind as to bring his/her archive back online for us... :)
                • Hex Star
                  Oh and that isn t intended to be spam for my server, I honestly want to help protect the life of her archive by mirroring it, take a look at my server and you
                  Message 8 of 30 , Jun 2, 2007
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                    Oh and that isn't intended to be spam for my server, I honestly want to help protect the life of her archive by mirroring it, take a look at my server and you will see that I am serious about this as I am already actively mirroring hundreds upon hundreds of GBs of vintage files. :)
                  • Jim Scheef
                    Hex, Your site does not come up from the URL in your message. I suspect that your dynamic DNS is not being updated automatically as needed. If you are as
                    Message 9 of 30 , Jun 3, 2007
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                      Hex,

                      Your site does not come up from the URL in your message. I suspect that your dynamic DNS is not being updated automatically as needed. If you are as serious as you say, eventually you will need to get a static IP address.

                      Jim

                      ----- Original Message ----
                      From: Hex Star <hexstar@...>
                      To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2007 9:20:37 PM
                      Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] TRS-80 software

                      I am very interested in her archive of files and also hope that Ira brings back his/her archive of vintage files for all of us to enjoy. Especially since I'd love to mirror the files on my kdx server ( kdxvcfa.dyndns. ws) so as to avoid there from being a single point of failure...hopefully someday Ira will be so kind as to bring his/her archive back online for us... :)


                    • Hex Star
                      ... Erm, that is not a http server. It is a kdx server, for more information on kdx including download links for the kdx client go here:
                      Message 10 of 30 , Jun 3, 2007
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                        On 6/3/07, Jim Scheef <jscheef@...> wrote:

                        Hex,

                        Your site does not come up from the URL in your message. I suspect that your dynamic DNS is not being updated automatically as needed. If you are as serious as you say, eventually you will need to get a static IP address.

                        Jim











                        Erm, that is not a http server. It is a kdx server, for more information on kdx including download links for the kdx client go here: http://www.haxial.com/products/kdx/. Also note that the dns is being updated automatically properly as there are currently numerous people on my server now as I type this, the problem is that you are trying to access my server with the wrong protocol, http instead of kdx.

                        I'd also like to make a note about the dynamic ip bit. I'm a student, I don't have the money to pay the $100 a month my ISP wants for a static IP (they require a business account in order to get a static IP) as such I have no choice but to use a dynamic IP for my server. In all honesty I don't care if a server I like uses a dynamic IP or not as long as it stays up and I am using this principle with my server. I have gotten a nice subdomain for the server which is automatically updated as my server's IP changes for everyones convenience so that in the event that my server's IP does change all one will have to do is reconnect to the subdomain. But that should not be a issue because my ISP does not appear to change dynamic IP's until the modem is restarted and even then they tend to reissue the same IP address. So since power outages are rare in my location IP changes should happen very rarely. In addition I am a strong believer in 24/7 uptime (or 99.9% uptime), the only time when my server will be down is: 1) A security patch is released for my server's OS 2) Acts of god (e.g. a power outage) 3) In the rare event that my ISP experiences trouble with one of its backbones that affects your connection.

                        So all in all I feel that the situation my server is in now is a stable one and one that everyone can trust as a place to mirror this archive without concern. Check out my server and you will see that there already are people who actively trust me as a mirror of their files, let me mirror this archive and you will most definitely not regret it.


                         


                      • Hex Star
                        Ok guys, I m starting to get some contributions which is great. Hopefully everyone can pitch in what they have of Ira s archive so we can reconstruct it.
                        Message 11 of 30 , Jun 3, 2007
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                          Ok guys, I'm starting to get some contributions which is great. Hopefully everyone can pitch in what they have of Ira's archive so we can reconstruct it. Everything that I receive will be placed on my kdx server ( kdxvcfa.dyndns.ws, go here: http://www.haxial.com/products/kdx/ for more information on kdx and client download links (towards the bottom of the page)) at the following location: Downloads 4>TS-80>Project Ira. Hopefully we will be able to bring back the archive there with everyones help. :)

                          Also, credit for contributions can be given if requested, the current contributor however has requested to remain anonymous. :)
                        • Herb Johnson
                          ... static IP ... such I have ... As time permits I may look at this KDX business, but a Web site that is not accessable by ordinary Web browsers through
                          Message 12 of 30 , Jun 4, 2007
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                            "Hex Star" <hexstar@...> wrote:

                            >
                            > Erm, that is not a http server. It is a kdx server, for more
                            > information on
                            > kdx including download links for the kdx client go here:
                            > ....the problem is that you are trying to access my server
                            > with the wrong protocol, http instead of kdx.
                            >
                            > I'd also like to make a note about the dynamic ip bit. I'm a student, I
                            > don't have the money to pay the $100 a month my ISP wants for a
                            static IP
                            > (they require a business account in order to get a static IP) as
                            such I have
                            > no choice but to use a dynamic IP for my server...
                            > In addition I am a strong believer in 24/7 uptime (or 99.9% uptime),

                            As time permits I may look at this "KDX" business, but a Web site that
                            is not accessable by ordinary Web browsers through http, strikes me as
                            a difficulty. But my reply is about the costs you mention.

                            Your desire for good uptime is reasonable. But one must pay some
                            modest price for such services. However the price you were quoted
                            seems excessive. I pay about $100 a YEAR for a quality Web host
                            service, plus costs for my domain name. There are probably other
                            hosting services for less, but mine has been hassle-free for years
                            with no downtime I'm aware of. No hassles is worth a lot to me.

                            Note to the technically minded. 99.9% uptime in a year means .1% down
                            in 365 days. That's 1/3 day, or eight hours. That's hard for a single
                            computer at a single location to provide. Not impossible but hard,
                            year after year. More arithmetic in a moment.

                            I'd say if you will be providing services to many people, it is not
                            unreasonable to ask them to provide some small contributions of money
                            to assist you. Raising $100 over a year's time should not be a
                            difficulty. Money is not evil.

                            On the other hand: running a system which eats, let's say, 300 watts
                            of power, for 24 hours, for 30 days, at 12 cents a kilowatt-hour. That
                            would cost TWENTY SIX DOLLARS. Even at 100W, one third of that, it's
                            over $8 a month. My friend, you will spend more money running your own
                            computer, than you would to pay a reasonably-priced Web hosting
                            service. But you may have other reasons, like KDX, etc. to run your
                            own server.

                            Herb Johnson

                            PS: I don't post contrary replies for fun. If such posts make too many
                            people unhappy, let me know somehow and I won't do so. - Herb

                            Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
                            http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/ web site
                            http://www.retrotechnology.net/herbs_stuff/ domain mirror
                            my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
                            if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
                            "Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
                            S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"
                          • Hex Star
                            A non http website is not a difficulty exactly...why? The KDX client is supported on a broad range of platforms, Windows, Mac OS X, Mac OS 9, and Linux such
                            Message 13 of 30 , Jun 4, 2007
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                              A non http website is not a difficulty exactly...why? The KDX client is supported on a broad range of platforms, Windows, Mac OS X, Mac OS 9, and Linux such that everyone in today's modern world will be able to access the server. This is especially so as people tend not to surf the web on their vintage computers since they are unfortunately too slow to handle todays websites and as such since people instead tend to download files they need for their vintage computers on to their modern computer and then transfer the files from their modern computer to their vintage computer this setup works fine.
                               
                              Also note that it is great that you have found hosting for $100 a year, but can you really expect to find hosting at that price that provides 1TB+ of diskspace and unmetered bandwidth as this server requires? ;-)
                               
                              As for the power, that is just part of life...I have to pay the power bill even if I wasn't running my server and an extra $8 or so to the bill is trivial at best...
                               
                              As for why I run KDX. That is explained on my servers website http://vintage.tsfsc.com (as well as the reason for switching from http to kdx is explained there, in essence it's because that webspace has been donated to me with a max of 100gb free diskspace and since my server currently uses about 800gb of diskspace I obviously can't expect someone to donate that plus some extra growing room along with unmetered bandwidth and thus I switched to KDX....more on that on my servers website)
                            • Bryan Pope
                              ... But http and ftp are supported on even more platforms. Plus these protocols have a big thing going for them: They are *open* whereas kdx ... Having an
                              Message 14 of 30 , Jun 4, 2007
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                                Hex Star wrote:
                                > A non http website is not a difficulty exactly...why? The KDX client
                                > is supported on a broad range of platforms, Windows, Mac OS X, Mac OS
                                > 9, and Linux such that everyone in today's modern world will be able
                                > to access the server. This is especially so as people tend not to surf
                                > the web on their vintage computers since they are unfortunately too
                                > slow to handle todays websites and as such since people instead tend
                                > to download files they need for their vintage computers on to their
                                > modern computer and then transfer the files from their modern computer
                                > to their vintage computer this setup works fine.
                                But http and ftp are supported on even more platforms. Plus these
                                protocols have a big thing going for them: They are *open* whereas kdx
                                is a closed protocol. From their FAQ:

                                >
                                > Will you publish a specification of the KDX protocol?
                                >
                                > Maybe in the future. Currently the protocol is still changing.
                                > However, one possible disadvantage is that it might open it up for
                                > abuse, for example people writing bots that spam you with
                                > advertisements etc. It would also make it easier for people to launch
                                > attacks on servers.

                                Having an open protocol does *not* automatically open it up to abuse. I
                                do instant messaging using GAIM and irc using ChatZilla and have yet to
                                be spammed with advertisements. Plus having something open allows for
                                peer review to help find any security holes and have them fixed.
                                Strangely enough they use a "well-tested publicly available, open, and
                                peer-reviewed 128-bit algorithm" for their encryption. Hmmm, OpenSSL
                                anyone?

                                >
                                > Also note that it is great that you have found hosting for $100 a
                                > year, but can you really expect to find hosting at that price that
                                > provides 1TB+ of diskspace and unmetered bandwidth as this server
                                > requires? ;-)
                                >
                                > As for the power, that is just part of life...I have to pay the power
                                > bill even if I wasn't running my server and an extra $8 or so to the
                                > bill is trivial at best...
                                >
                                > As for why I run KDX. That is explained on my servers website
                                > http://vintage.tsfsc.com (as well as the reason for switching from
                                > http to kdx is explained there, in essence it's because that webspace
                                > has been donated to me with a max of 100gb free diskspace and since my
                                > server currently uses about 800gb of diskspace I obviously can't
                                > expect someone to donate that plus some extra growing room along with
                                > unmetered bandwidth and thus I switched to KDX....more on that on my
                                > servers website)
                                > _
                                Have you never heard of dynamic DNS services like http://www.dyndns.com/
                                ? They provide you with *free* redirection to your dynamic IP
                                address... Then you can run your server with an open protocol and no
                                one will have to download some special software just for it.

                                Cheers,

                                Bryan
                              • Hex Star
                                Interestingly enough I do use dyndns.com services for my subdomain that points to my server. Yes it *is* possible for me to use a http server instead of kdx.
                                Message 15 of 30 , Jun 4, 2007
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                                  Interestingly enough I do use dyndns.com services for my subdomain that points to my server. Yes it *is* possible for me to use a http server instead of kdx. But as mentioned on my website I chose kdx because: it is an instant community with built in chat/voice chat capability, news, private messaging, and of course the file sharing feature. Not only that but it has a high amount of configurability and configuring permissions is easy with kdx. It provides easy ability to monitor connections, kick users, see what users are doing, etc etc ...meanwhile with http, you get a webserver but then you have to configure a forum, a chatroom, and such seperately which involves installing and configuring php and mysql in addition to the http server. Not only that but due to the higher usage of apache and the open source nature of apache it is necessary to upgrade apache much more frequently then kdx which has no known exploits for it. In addition kdx has builtin flood protection so users who try to hammer the server automatically get kicked and banned. So in essence, because my server is targeted as a community based environment with the addition of serving files kdx fills the void perfectly by doing all of that with ease.
                                   
                                  So c'mon guys, lets keep the contributions going! I'd really like to be able to reconstruct Ira's archive for the benefit of the vintage computing community and it's up to you guys as to whether or not that'll truly happen, lets make it happen, ok? :D :)
                                   
                                  And again, if anyone needs help getting used to using kdx let me know at any time offlist and I'll be more then happy to assist you however possible :)
                                   
                                   
                                • Hex Star
                                  And c mon guys, at least I m offering you a server which has the diskspace and bandwidth to house Ira s archive. We should all put aside our opinions about
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Jun 4, 2007
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                                    And c'mon guys, at least I'm offering you a server which has the diskspace and bandwidth to house Ira's archive. We should all put aside our opinions about what kind of server is in use and work together to recreate Ira's archive on the server I'm offering for this purpose. After that point people can freely download the whole archive and host it on whatever type of server they prefer. So perhaps the point I'm trying to state here is that we should all just put aside our opinions on what server is best, what server we prefer and take advantage of this server as a place to put our pieces of Ira's archive together to make a complete mirror of the archive. It is from there that anyone will be able to download the entire archive that everyone helped piece together again and put their copy of the archive on whatever kind of server they want, http, ftp, hotline, kazaa...whatever, lets at least use this server as a place to put the pieces of Ira's archive back together. Afterall, we all want access to Ira's archive and so we should all do all we can to help make that a possibility again.
                                  • Bryan Pope
                                    ... I for one will not be helping with something that is closed software, closed protocol and it put out by a small company/group that I have never heard of or
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Jun 4, 2007
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                                      Hex Star wrote:
                                      > Interestingly enough I do use dyndns.com <http://dyndns.com> services
                                      > for my subdomain that points to my server. Yes it *is* possible for me
                                      > to use a http server instead of kdx. But as mentioned on my website I
                                      > chose kdx because: it is an instant community with built in chat/voice
                                      > chat capability, news, private messaging, and of course the file
                                      > sharing feature. Not only that but it has a high amount of
                                      > configurability and configuring permissions is easy with kdx. It
                                      > provides easy ability to monitor connections, kick users, see what
                                      > users are doing, etc etc ...meanwhile with http, you get a webserver
                                      > but then you have to configure a forum, a chatroom, and such
                                      > seperately which involves installing and configuring php and mysql in
                                      > addition to the http server. Not only that but due to the higher usage
                                      > of apache and the open source nature of apache it is necessary to
                                      > upgrade apache much more frequently then kdx which has no known
                                      > exploits for it. In addition kdx has builtin flood rotection so users
                                      > who try to hammer the server automatically get kicked and banned. So
                                      > in essence, because my server is targeted as a community based
                                      > environment with the addition of serving files kdx fills the void
                                      > perfectly by doing all of that with ease.
                                      >
                                      > So c'mon guys, lets keep the contributions going! I'd really like to
                                      > be able to reconstruct Ira's archive for the benefit of the vintage
                                      > computing community and it's up to you guys as to whether or not
                                      > that'll truly happen, lets make it happen, ok? :D :)
                                      >
                                      I for one will not be helping with something that is closed software,
                                      closed protocol and it put out by a small company/group that I have
                                      never heard of or even read about on any tech/geek/nerd news service..

                                      All anybody needs to do is buy a set of those DVDs that has a copy of
                                      his site and then make a torrent (open!) of it or accessible via ftp
                                      (open!).

                                      Cheers,

                                      Bryan
                                    • Bryan Pope
                                      ... How about I do not like installing unknown software on my computer? ... But I cannot download from your server... ... Cheers, Bryan
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Jun 4, 2007
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                                        Hex Star wrote:
                                        > And c'mon guys, at least I'm offering you a server which has the
                                        > diskspace and bandwidth to house Ira's archive. We should all put
                                        > aside our opinions about what kind of server is in use and work
                                        > together to recreate Ira's archive on the server I'm offering for this
                                        > purpose. After that
                                        How about I do not like installing unknown software on my computer?

                                        > point people can freely download the whole archive and host it on
                                        > whatever type of server they prefer. So perhaps the point I'm trying
                                        > to state here is that we should all just put aside our opinions on
                                        > what server is best, what server we prefer and take advantage of this
                                        > server as a place to put our pieces of Ira's archive together to make
                                        > a complete mirror of the archive. It is from there that anyone will be
                                        > able to download the
                                        But I cannot download from your server...

                                        > entire archive that everyone helped piece together again and put their
                                        > copy of the archive on whatever kind of server they want, http, ftp,
                                        > hotline, kazaa...whatever, lets at least use this server as a place to
                                        > put the pieces of Ira's archive back together. Aferall, we all want
                                        > access to Ira's archive and so we should all do all we can to help
                                        > make that a possibility again.
                                        >
                                        Cheers,

                                        Bryan
                                      • Hex Star
                                        What are those dvd sets listed as on ebay?
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Jun 4, 2007
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                                          What are those dvd sets listed as on ebay?
                                        • Bryan Pope
                                          ... It looks like they are not there right now.. Another way would be to ask Ira nicely.. Or, if you have a list of what is in his collection, see if it is
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Jun 4, 2007
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                                            Hex Star wrote:
                                            > What are those dvd sets listed as on ebay?
                                            > __.
                                            It looks like they are not there right now.. Another way would be to
                                            ask Ira nicely.. Or, if you have a list of what is in his collection,
                                            see if it is already part of TOSEC. (http://www.tosec.info/ or
                                            http://www.tosec.org/ for the dats).

                                            Was his collection just software?

                                            Cheers,

                                            Bryan

                                            P.S. The last posted TOSEC for all of the TRS-80 computers which
                                            includes software, manuals, magazines, books, comics and catalog is
                                            19.10 GB.
                                          • Herb Johnson
                                            Hex Star wrote: [in summary] ... I thought about various replies to this. But I read your other posts, and I decided I don t have much of a
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Jun 5, 2007
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                                              "Hex Star" <hexstar@...> wrote: [in summary]
                                              >
                                              > A non http website is not a difficulty exactly...why?
                                              > The KDX client is
                                              > supported on a broad range of platforms... everyone in
                                              > today's modern world will be able to access the
                                              > server. This is especially so as people tend not to
                                              > surf the web on their
                                              > vintage computers...

                                              > ....can you really expect to find hosting at [$100 annually]
                                              > that provides 1TB+ of
                                              > diskspace and unmetered bandwidth as this server requires? ;-)
                                              >
                                              > As for the power, that is just part of life..
                                              > an extra $8 or so to the bill is
                                              > trivial at best...
                                              >
                                              > As for why I run KDX. That is explained on my servers website
                                              >.... webspace has been
                                              > donated to me with a max of 100gb free diskspace and since
                                              > my server currently uses about 800gb of diskspace...
                                              > thus I switched to KDX....more on that on my servers website)

                                              I thought about various replies to this. But I read your other posts,
                                              and I decided I don't have much of a response. Whatever it is you are
                                              doing, seems to me the issues raised have little to do with "vintage
                                              computing", which is what I expect to read about in this mail list.
                                              How you intend to service your potential "vintage computing" clients,
                                              is for you to sort out. Since my advice was not useful or relevant, I
                                              won't offer more.

                                              Herb Johnson

                                              Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
                                              http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/ web site
                                              http://www.retrotechnology.net/herbs_stuff/ domain mirror
                                              my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
                                              if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
                                              "Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
                                              S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"
                                            • Hex Star
                                              ... It is snide comments like yours that are unappreciated. My server is doing fine thank you very much. And my server is very much vintage computing oriented,
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Jun 5, 2007
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                                                On 6/5/07, Herb Johnson <hjohnson@...> wrote:
                                                > I thought about various replies to this. But I read your other posts,
                                                > and I decided I don't have much of a response. Whatever it is you are
                                                > doing, seems to me the issues raised have little to do with "vintage
                                                > computing", which is what I expect to read about in this mail list.
                                                > How you intend to service your potential "vintage computing" clients,
                                                > is for you to sort out. Since my advice was not useful or relevant, I
                                                > won't offer more.
                                                >
                                                > Herb Johnson

                                                It is snide comments like yours that are unappreciated. My server is
                                                doing fine thank you very much. And my server is very much vintage
                                                computing oriented, in fact it is completely vintage computing
                                                oriented. I get many daily visitors and many new visitors as well and
                                                constantly get people saying how they enjoy my server and all the
                                                vintage software on it.

                                                I do not appreciate you referring to my visitors as "clients", this is
                                                rude and very inappropriate. My visitors are not "clients" at all as
                                                you say because my server is not in any way, shape, or form a pay
                                                server. It is a completely free and open server with no bandwidth or
                                                downloading restrictions and many people who enjoy vintage computing
                                                enjoy and benefit from my offering.

                                                The KDX client is perfectly fine for this audience as there is a
                                                client for Mac OS X, Mac OS 9, Linux, and Windows. This woks because
                                                in today's world those who still surf the web on their vintage
                                                computers are in the minority, most people simply download the vintage
                                                software they are in need of from the internet on their more modern
                                                computer and then transfer the file(s) from their more modern computer
                                                to their vintage computer.

                                                I do not know why you seem to have a grudge against me but I wish to
                                                politely request that if all you have to say is snide remakrs to me
                                                that you do not respond to my posts, thank you :)
                                              • Evan Koblentz
                                                Hex: we don t like personal insults here from ANYONE. Clearly you didn t bother to read up on Herb s background. He s been working with used/obsolete
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Jun 5, 2007
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                                                  Hex: we don't like personal insults here from ANYONE. Clearly you didn't
                                                  bother to read up on Herb's background. He's been working with
                                                  used/obsolete computer hw/sw/docs since before you (and I!) were born.
                                                  Instead of arguing, go to www.retrotechnology.com and learn something.

                                                  >>> It is snide comments like yours that are unappreciated.
                                                • Bryan Pope
                                                  ... His comments were not snide in any shape or form. Herb was trying to be helpful in his first post to you and made a couple of very good points which you
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Jun 5, 2007
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                                                    Hex Star wrote:
                                                    > On 6/5/07, Herb Johnson <hjohnson@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    >> I thought about various replies to this. But I read your other posts,
                                                    >> and I decided I don't have much of a response. Whatever it is you are
                                                    >> doing, seems to me the issues raised have little to do with "vintage
                                                    >> computing", which is what I expect to read about in this mail list.
                                                    >> How you intend to service your potential "vintage computing" clients,
                                                    >> is for you to sort out. Since my advice was not useful or relevant, I
                                                    >> won't offer more.
                                                    >>
                                                    >> Herb Johnson
                                                    >>
                                                    >
                                                    > It is snide comments like yours that are unappreciated. My server is
                                                    > doing fine thank you very much. And my server is very much vintage
                                                    > computing oriented, in fact it is completely vintage computing
                                                    > oriented. I get many daily visitors and many new visitors as well and
                                                    > constantly get people saying how they enjoy my server and all the
                                                    > vintage software on it.
                                                    >
                                                    His comments were not "snide" in any shape or form. Herb was trying to
                                                    be helpful in his first post to you and made a couple of very good
                                                    points which you blew off.

                                                    > I do not appreciate you referring to my visitors as "clients", this is
                                                    > rude and very inappropriate. My visitors are not "clients" at all as
                                                    > you say because my server is not in any way, shape, or form a pay
                                                    > server. It is a completely free and open server with no bandwidth or
                                                    > downloading restrictions and many people who enjoy vintage computing
                                                    > enjoy and benefit from my offering.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > cli·ent (klnt)
                                                    > /n./
                                                    > *1. * The party for which professional services are rendered, as by an
                                                    > attorney.
                                                    > *2. * A customer or patron: clients of the hotel.
                                                    > *3. * A person using the services of a social services agency.
                                                    > *4. * One that depends on the protection of another.
                                                    > *5. * A client state.
                                                    > *6. * /Computer Science/ A computer or program that can download files
                                                    > for manipulation, run applications, or request application-based
                                                    > services from a file server.
                                                    > vis·i·tor (vz-tr)
                                                    > /n./
                                                    > One that visits: Sunday afternoon visitors; lost the game to the visitors.
                                                    Visitor and client are pretty close, but "client" is the better word as
                                                    you are providing a service (vintage computing repository). You choose
                                                    to provide said services for free. Also, you have a server and the
                                                    computers who connect to you are called clients! ;)

                                                    > The KDX client is perfectly fine for this audience as there is a
                                                    > client for Mac OS X, Mac OS 9, Linux, and Windows. This woks because
                                                    > in today's world those who still surf the web on their vintage
                                                    > computers are in the minority, most people simply download the vintage
                                                    > software they are in need of from the internet on their more modern
                                                    > computer and then transfer the file(s) from their more modern computer
                                                    > to their vintage computer.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    It is still a closed protocol with closed software by an unknown
                                                    company. This software also needs to communicate with the internet so
                                                    there is also a matter of trust.

                                                    > I do not know why you seem to have a grudge against me but I wish to
                                                    > politely request that if all you have to say is snide remakrs to me
                                                    > that you do not respond to my posts, thank you :)
                                                    >
                                                    Herb does *not* have a grudge against you. He was only trying to help
                                                    you. You have decided that his comments were "snide" and "rude".

                                                    Here is a tip: When you join a new mailing-list group, you should take
                                                    some time and read past messages plus the new messages coming in to get
                                                    a feel for the group. This way you may be able to better understand the
                                                    list members who post here regularly and see how everything ebbs and
                                                    flows...

                                                    Cheers,

                                                    Bryan
                                                  • John Allain
                                                    Probably the best thing to do is to wait a week before pursuing this topic much further. Many members of this list have to concentrate on the VCFe for the
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Jun 5, 2007
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                                                      Probably the best thing to do is to wait a week before pursuing this
                                                      topic much further. Many members of this list have to concentrate
                                                      on the VCFe for the next 6 days, and don't have much time to stray
                                                      to other topics right now.

                                                      I see you're already getting some attention, but if you want to have
                                                      friends, be friendly and step back.

                                                      John A.

                                                      > It is ... comments like ... that are unappreciated.
                                                    • Hex Star
                                                      OK sorry guys, didn t mean to get into a big thing... I ll drop the argument ... is was poking at me saying that my server s (and this is most certainly not
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Jun 5, 2007
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                                                        OK sorry guys, didn't mean to get into a big thing... I'll drop the argument :). My reply wasn't meant to start a fight, when I read Herb's post I felt is was poking at me saying that my server's (and this is most certainly not true!) contents is offtopic for this list and that I was somehow charging my visitors for access to my server and thus I replied defensively. However I suppose I overreacted to his post and will take some more time looking at his writing style before overreacting to anything he says to me again. Please accept my apologies :)
                                                         
                                                        However I would like to say that I have not been attempting to spam this list with shameless plugs to my server. Rather I heard about the bad news about Ira's archive and decided to try and act so as to get a mirror of it up and running. Since I have a server dedicated to vintage computing I thought what better purpose for the server then to house a mirror of the reconstruction of Ira's archive and thus I started stating on this list that people should contribute what they have of Ira's archive to my server so we can reconstruct it. The point then would be that there would be a live place to download Ira's archive from and people could do what they want with it whether that be putting it on a http server, ftp server, hotline, kdx, whatever they could do what they want with the archive. That was my intention however it seems like people are not interested in my offer to lend a hand in this effort so I shall shut up on this subject :)
                                                      • Evan Koblentz
                                                        ... overreacting to anything he says to me again. Ugh . the problem is not Herb or his writing. Herb was right and I think it s clear that we all support him.
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Jun 5, 2007
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                                                          >>> will take some more time looking at his writing style before overreacting to anything he says to me again.

                                                           

                                                          Ugh … the problem is not Herb or his writing.  Herb was right and I think it’s clear that we all support him.

                                                           

                                                          >>> That was my intention however it seems like people are not interested

                                                           

                                                          That’s not ENTIRELY true.  Your objective basically feels altruistic, which is good.  It’s the way you went about it that annoyed people.

                                                           

                                                          Rather than apologizing, please just learn from it.

                                                           

                                                           

                                                           

                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                          From: Hex Star [mailto:hexstar@...]
                                                          Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 4:15 PM
                                                          To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Re: TRS-80 software

                                                           

                                                          OK sorry guys, didn't mean to get into a big thing... I'll drop the argument :). My reply wasn't meant to start a fight, when I read Herb's post I felt is was poking at me saying that my server's (and this is most certainly not true!) contents is offtopic for this list and that I was somehow charging my visitors for access to my server and thus I replied defensively. However I suppose I overreacted to his post and will take some more time looking at his writing style before overreacting to anything he says to me again. Please accept my apologies :)

                                                           

                                                          However I would like to say that I have not been attempting to spam this list with shameless plugs to my server. Rather I heard about the bad news about Ira's archive and decided to try and act so as to get a mirror of it up and running. Since I have a server dedicated to vintage computing I thought what better purpose for the server then to house a mirror of the reconstruction of Ira's archive and thus I started stating on this list that people should contribute what they have of Ira's archive to my server so we can reconstruct it. The point then would be that there would be a live place to download Ira's archive from and people could do what they want with it whether that be putting it on a http server, ftp server, hotline, kdx, whatever they could do what they want with the archive. That was my intention however it seems like people are not interested in my offer to lend a hand in this effort so I shall shut up on this subject :)

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