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Decsystem 20/20 (Digital/DEC) bigger than a pdp11

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  • B. Degnan
    Any takers? Decsystem 20/20 (Digital/DEC) bigger than a pdp11 Ebay auction 320038687685 Presently at $3,822.36 Located in Halethorpe, Maryland. (near
    Message 1 of 29 , Oct 22, 2006
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      Any takers?

      "Decsystem 20/20 (Digital/DEC) bigger than a pdp11"

      Ebay auction 320038687685

      Presently at $3,822.36

      Located in Halethorpe, Maryland. (near Patapsko)

      Bill D
    • Jim Scheef
      Geez, it would be cool to get a DEC 20 and run the old CompuServe software. CompuServe actually bought a company on the left coast that made DEC 20 clones
      Message 2 of 29 , Oct 24, 2006
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        Geez, it would be cool to get a DEC 20 and run the old CompuServe software. CompuServe actually bought a company on the left coast that made DEC 20 clones after DEC stopped production to keep their systems running.

        Jim

        ----- Original Message ----
        From: B. Degnan <billdeg@...>
        To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 9:54:47 PM
        Subject: [midatlanticretro] Decsystem 20/20 (Digital/DEC) bigger than a pdp11

        Any takers?

        "Decsystem 20/20 (Digital/DEC) bigger than a pdp11"

        Ebay auction 320038687685

        Presently at $3,822.36

        Located in Halethorpe, Maryland. (near Patapsko)

        Bill D


      • Herb Johnson
        ... software. CompuServe actually bought a company on the left coast that made DEC 20 clones after DEC stopped production to keep their systems running. ...
        Message 3 of 29 , Oct 25, 2006
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          Jim Scheef <jscheef@...> wrote:
          >
          > Geez, it would be cool to get a DEC 20 and run the old CompuServe
          software. CompuServe actually bought a company on the left coast that
          made DEC 20 clones after DEC stopped production to keep their systems
          running.
          >
          > Jim
          >
          > ----- Original Message ----
          > From: B. Degnan <billdeg@...>

          > Any takers?
          > "Decsystem 20/20 (Digital/DEC) bigger than a pdp11"
          > Presently at $3,822.36
          > Located in Halethorpe, Maryland. (near Patapsko)
          >
          > Bill D

          It's easy to say it would be fun, or cool, to have one of these and to
          run it. But I actually was paid professionally to oversee and plan the
          installation, air conditioning, power for a Dec 20/20. I managed the
          system for a major university, managed the student programming and
          operator staff, I was trained by DEC to program it. Of course DEC and
          others did the maintenance and repair of the system and A/C.

          It is a MAJOR MAJOR TASK to do this. It needs serious power, serious
          A/C, serious planning. Does anyone have a serious proposal to acquire
          and run a mainframe? Not me, I know what it takes, I respect those
          people who DO acquire these for use. Buy it for show - pointless, in
          my opinion, most mainframes including this one look like colored
          refrigerators; life-sized photos would be cheaper than MOVING one of
          these, and take less space.

          That's more comment than I care to make, considering the posts are
          about one or two lines long. Don't make me the bad guy, for pointing
          out the difficulties.

          Herb Johnson

          Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
          <a href="http://retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/"> web site</a>
          <a href="http://retrotechnology.net/herbs_stuff/"> domain mirror</a>
          my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
          if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
          "Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
          S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"
        • William Pechter
          And the amount of Field Service work today to keep the box running correctly is significant. I speak as an old DEC Field Service Engineer. Herb -- perhaps we
          Message 4 of 29 , Oct 25, 2006
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            And the amount of Field Service work today to keep the box running
            correctly is significant.

            I speak as an old DEC Field Service Engineer.

            Herb -- perhaps we worked on the same box at one time.
            There's a lot of internet history in the local PDP10's.

            I've seen these beasts at the end of their hayday -- the 80's...
            At Rider, Rutgers, AT&T...

            Right now I think Compuserve running on emulated DEC hardware on some
            high end AMD64 stuff would be slick... sucking $$$ for electricity and
            spinning RP06's... not a good idea.

            Getting a KL up to back up Compuserve tapes to disk to restore the
            service as disk images in an emulator might work. Keeping KL's running
            is a real PITA.

            Read the stories at http://www.pdpplanet.com


            --- Herb Johnson <hjohnson@...> wrote:

            > Jim Scheef <jscheef@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Geez, it would be cool to get a DEC 20 and run the old CompuServe
            > software. CompuServe actually bought a company on the left coast that
            > made DEC 20 clones after DEC stopped production to keep their systems
            > running.
            > >
            > > Jim
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message ----
            > > From: B. Degnan <billdeg@...>
            >
            > > Any takers?
            > > "Decsystem 20/20 (Digital/DEC) bigger than a pdp11"
            > > Presently at $3,822.36
            > > Located in Halethorpe, Maryland. (near Patapsko)
            > >
            > > Bill D
            >
            > It's easy to say it would be fun, or cool, to have one of these and
            > to
            > run it. But I actually was paid professionally to oversee and plan
            > the
            > installation, air conditioning, power for a Dec 20/20. I managed the
            > system for a major university, managed the student programming and
            > operator staff, I was trained by DEC to program it. Of course DEC and
            > others did the maintenance and repair of the system and A/C.
            >
            > It is a MAJOR MAJOR TASK to do this. It needs serious power, serious
            > A/C, serious planning. Does anyone have a serious proposal to acquire
            > and run a mainframe? Not me, I know what it takes, I respect those
            > people who DO acquire these for use. Buy it for show - pointless, in
            > my opinion, most mainframes including this one look like colored
            > refrigerators; life-sized photos would be cheaper than MOVING one of
            > these, and take less space.
            >
            > That's more comment than I care to make, considering the posts are
            > about one or two lines long. Don't make me the bad guy, for pointing
            > out the difficulties.
            >
            > Herb Johnson
            >
            > Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
            > <a href="http://retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/"> web site</a>
            > <a href="http://retrotechnology.net/herbs_stuff/"> domain mirror</a>
            > my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
            > if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
            > "Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
            > S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"
            >
            >
            >
          • Sridhar Ayengar
            ... Oh come on. It s an air-cooled machine. I ran a water cooled machine *as a teenager in my parents house* for a few years. Nothing says you have to run
            Message 5 of 29 , Oct 25, 2006
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              Herb Johnson wrote:
              > It is a MAJOR MAJOR TASK to do this. It needs serious power, serious
              > A/C, serious planning. Does anyone have a serious proposal to acquire
              > and run a mainframe? Not me, I know what it takes, I respect those
              > people who DO acquire these for use. Buy it for show - pointless, in
              > my opinion, most mainframes including this one look like colored
              > refrigerators; life-sized photos would be cheaper than MOVING one of
              > these, and take less space.

              Oh come on. It's an air-cooled machine. I ran a water cooled machine
              *as a teenager in my parents house* for a few years. Nothing says you
              have to run everything exactly to spec either. And if you're running a
              machine in your house and it starts to get hot, you can *turn it off*.

              Running a mainframe in your house is hard, but it isn't *that* hard.

              Peace... Sridhar
            • Evan Koblentz
              I m sure exactly where, but Grabbe s collection includes a Prime mainframe. What about the Perkin-Elmer items? Are those all considered minicomputers? There
              Message 6 of 29 , Oct 25, 2006
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                I'm sure exactly where, but Grabbe's collection includes a Prime mainframe.

                What about the Perkin-Elmer items? Are those all considered minicomputers?
                There is more available that we haven't adopted yet.

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Sridhar Ayengar [mailto:ploopster@...]
                Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 1:41 PM
                To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Re: Decsystem 20/20 (Digital/DEC) bigger
                than a pdp11

                Herb Johnson wrote:
                > It is a MAJOR MAJOR TASK to do this. It needs serious power, serious
                > A/C, serious planning. Does anyone have a serious proposal to acquire
                > and run a mainframe? Not me, I know what it takes, I respect those
                > people who DO acquire these for use. Buy it for show - pointless, in
                > my opinion, most mainframes including this one look like colored
                > refrigerators; life-sized photos would be cheaper than MOVING one of
                > these, and take less space.

                Oh come on. It's an air-cooled machine. I ran a water cooled machine *as a
                teenager in my parents house* for a few years. Nothing says you have to run
                everything exactly to spec either. And if you're running a machine in your
                house and it starts to get hot, you can *turn it off*.

                Running a mainframe in your house is hard, but it isn't *that* hard.

                Peace... Sridhar



                Yahoo! Groups Links
              • Bob Applegate
                They re definitely minis. I was out of town last week and have stuff this weekend, but hope to make the Nov 14th work day to take a look at the PE stuff. PE
                Message 7 of 29 , Oct 25, 2006
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                  They're definitely minis.  I was out of town last week and have stuff this weekend,
                  but hope to make the Nov 14th work day to take a look at the PE stuff.  PE made
                  everything from little one-board systems up to machines that had multiple CPUs
                  and occupied rack after rack.  The cool part about them is that they ALL ran
                  the same OS and software.
                   
                  Most of them can probably run without special A/C.  We had some 3210s and
                  3205s in a lab with nothing more than usual office conditions.  Our big 3250 MPU
                  (Multiple Processor Unit) had 7 add-on CPUs that needed lots of cooling, but
                  most of their systems weren't that power hungry.
                   
                  Bob
                   
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 2:20 PM
                  Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Re: Decsystem 20/20 (Digital/DEC) bigger than a pdp11

                  I'm sure exactly where, but Grabbe's collection includes a Prime mainframe.

                  What about the Perkin-Elmer items? Are those all considered minicomputers?
                  There is more available that we haven't adopted yet.

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Sridhar Ayengar [mailto:ploopster@gmail. com]
                  Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 1:41 PM
                  To: midatlanticretro@ yahoogroups. com
                  Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Re: Decsystem 20/20 (Digital/DEC) bigger
                  than a pdp11

                  Herb Johnson wrote:
                  > It is a MAJOR MAJOR TASK to do this. It needs serious power, serious
                  > A/C, serious planning. Does anyone have a serious proposal to acquire
                  > and run a mainframe? Not me, I know what it takes, I respect those
                  > people who DO acquire these for use. Buy it for show - pointless, in
                  > my opinion, most mainframes including this one look like colored
                  > refrigerators; life-sized photos would be cheaper than MOVING one of
                  > these, and take less space.

                  Oh come on. It's an air-cooled machine. I ran a water cooled machine *as a
                  teenager in my parents house* for a few years. Nothing says you have to run
                  everything exactly to spec either. And if you're running a machine in your
                  house and it starts to get hot, you can *turn it off*.

                  Running a mainframe in your house is hard, but it isn't *that* hard.

                  Peace... Sridhar

                  Yahoo! Groups Links

                • William Pechter
                  Most of em did. Actually there were the earlier 7/16 and 8/16 systems that ran the earlier OS/16 before the boxes that ran OS/32. And there was the bunch of
                  Message 8 of 29 , Oct 25, 2006
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                    Most of 'em did.  Actually there were the earlier 7/16 and 8/16 systems that ran the earlier OS/16 before the boxes that ran OS/32. And there was the  bunch of  68000 boxes that ran IDRIS and UniPlus and MicroXelos... and the Edition VII for the 7/32, 8/32 and 3200 series (which also ran Xelos -- a port of SysV Rel2.(No virtual memory paging, though...)
                    They also had a bunch of boxes from Masscomp (Concurrent merged with them around 87...) which ran RTU (RealTimeUnix).  It was a dual Universe SysIII varient with BSD compatibility libraries.  Supposedly a bunch of ex-DEC guys added real-time extensions to Unix to work as lab computers instead of the underpowered MINC stuff...
                     
                    Bill
                    (worked for Concurent a bit before the merger as well as after the merger)


                    Bob Applegate <bob@...> wrote:
                    They're definitely minis.  I was out of town last week and have stuff this weekend,
                    but hope to make the Nov 14th work day to take a look at the PE stuff.  PE made
                    everything from little one-board systems up to machines that had multiple CPUs
                    and occupied rack after rack.  The cool part about them is that they ALL ran
                    the same OS and software.
                     
                    Most of them can probably run without special A/C.  We had some 3210s and
                    3205s in a lab with nothing more than usual office conditions.  Our big 3250 MPU
                    (Multiple Processor Unit) had 7 add-on CPUs that needed lots of cooling, but
                    most of their systems weren't that power hungry.
                     
                    Bob
                     
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 2:20 PM
                    Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Re: Decsystem 20/20 (Digital/DEC) bigger than a pdp11

                    I'm sure exactly where, but Grabbe's collection includes a Prime mainframe.

                    What about the Perkin-Elmer items? Are those all considered minicomputers?
                    There is more available that we haven't adopted yet.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Sridhar Ayengar [mailto:ploopster@gmail. com]
                    Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 1:41 PM
                    To: midatlanticretro@ yahoogroups. com
                    Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Re: Decsystem 20/20 (Digital/DEC) bigger
                    than a pdp11

                    Herb Johnson wrote:
                    > It is a MAJOR MAJOR TASK to do this. It needs serious power, serious
                    > A/C, serious planning. Does anyone have a serious proposal to acquire
                    > and run a mainframe? Not me, I know what it takes, I respect those
                    > people who DO acquire these for use. Buy it for show - pointless, in
                    > my opinion, most mainframes including this one look like colored
                    > refrigerators; life-sized photos would be cheaper than MOVING one of
                    > these, and take less space.

                    Oh come on. It's an air-cooled machine. I ran a water cooled machine *as a
                    teenager in my parents house* for a few years. Nothing says you have to run
                    everything exactly to spec either. And if you're running a machine in your
                    house and it starts to get hot, you can *turn it off*.

                    Running a mainframe in your house is hard, but it isn't *that* hard.

                    Peace... Sridhar

                    Yahoo! Groups Links


                  • William Pechter
                    A KL is about 10 foot long by about 5 foot in width (footprint) and pulls a ton of power -- and it s hot running ECL. Think about 3 or 4 11/70 mini s in the
                    Message 9 of 29 , Oct 25, 2006
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                      A KL is about 10 foot long by about 5 foot in width (footprint) and pulls a ton of power -- and it's hot running ECL.  Think about 3 or 4 11/70 mini's in the room.
                      This is 10K ECL logic IIRC.  To run it requires the front end 11/40 and the rest of the ECL logic. Not to mention the RP06 Memorex 667 (IIRC) disk drives with their power load and weight.  (Could be lucky and have RM05's on it -- but usually the system pack was on RP06...)
                      Bill

                      Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster@...> wrote:
                      Herb Johnson wrote:
                      > It is a MAJOR MAJOR TASK to do this. It needs serious power, serious
                      > A/C, serious planning. Does anyone have a serious proposal to acquire
                      > and run a mainframe? Not me, I know what it takes, I respect those
                      > people who DO acquire these for use. Buy it for show - pointless, in
                      > my opinion, most mainframes including this one look like colored
                      > refrigerators; life-sized photos would be cheaper than MOVING one of
                      > these, and take less space.

                      Oh come on. It's an air-cooled machine. I ran a water cooled machine
                      *as a teenager in my parents house* for a few years. Nothing says you
                      have to run everything exactly to spec either. And if you're running a
                      machine in your house and it starts to get hot, you can *turn it off*.

                      Running a mainframe in your house is hard, but it isn't *that* hard.

                      Peace... Sridhar

                    • Sridhar Ayengar
                      ... First of all, a 2020 is a *KS*, so it s smaller. Second of all, I currently run an IBM S/390 G1 (some Bipolar, some CMOS) in my house, which is bigger
                      Message 10 of 29 , Oct 25, 2006
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                        William Pechter wrote:
                        > A KL is about 10 foot long by about 5 foot in width (footprint) and
                        > pulls a ton of power -- and it's hot running ECL. Think about 3 or 4
                        > 11/70 mini's in the room.
                        > This is 10K ECL logic IIRC. To run it requires the front end 11/40 and
                        > the rest of the ECL logic. Not to mention the RP06 Memorex 667 (IIRC)
                        > disk drives with their power load and weight. (Could be lucky and have
                        > RM05's on it -- but usually the system pack was on RP06...)
                        > Bill

                        First of all, a 2020 is a *KS*, so it's smaller. Second of all, I
                        currently run an IBM S/390 G1 (some Bipolar, some CMOS) in my house,
                        which is bigger than a KS.

                        I used to run an IBM ES/9021 in my parents' house which ran *much*
                        hotter than a KL-10. I had to pour a concrete pad outside for the heat
                        exchanger.

                        I currently run an S/390 G1 (including CPU + DASD controller + 1 DASD
                        rack + 3490 tape jukebox), VAX 6660, VAX 7640 and a couple racks full of
                        other gear in my dining room. There's also a VAX 8700 in there, but it
                        isn't powered on. I had to reinforce the floor to hold the weight.

                        There are dozens of other machines in various places in the house.
                        Including a PDP-11/70 (in the basement), which I've had since I was
                        about 11 years old.

                        I have years of experience running mainframes in a residential setting.

                        Peace... Sridhar
                      • William Pechter
                        I didn t think Compuserve ran on a KS... They re a lot smaller and IIRC they used a bit slice AMD processor... kind of like the 11/730 of DEC PDP10 s... I can
                        Message 11 of 29 , Oct 25, 2006
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                          I didn't think Compuserve ran on a KS...
                          They're a lot smaller and IIRC they used a bit slice AMD processor... kind of like the 11/730 of DEC PDP10's...
                          I can really appreciate the work that goes into getting a mainframe running in a residential setting -- but I'm surprised the ES ran cooler than a KL...
                          That was one of the biggest power sucking beasts DEC had (except for my favorite VAX  --- the 8650.  The 440 volt feed to that one was amazing.
                          I don't have the info on what sucked more power -- the KL or the Venus.
                          The machine I'd love to have had here was the KB11-CM 11/74 single CPU that we had in DEC Princeton.  An 11/70 in the DEC Datasystem 570 blue would be my next choice and the Red White and Blue11/45 Industrial PDP11 would be next. (Just for the cool look factor...)
                          Bill
                          Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster@...> wrote:
                          William Pechter wrote:
                          > A KL is about 10 foot long by about 5 foot in width (footprint) and
                          > pulls a ton of power -- and it's hot running ECL. Think about 3 or 4
                          > 11/70 mini's in the room.
                          > This is 10K ECL logic IIRC. To run it requires the front end 11/40 and
                          > the rest of the ECL logic. Not to mention the RP06 Memorex 667 (IIRC)
                          > disk drives with their power load and weight. (Could be lucky and have
                          > RM05's on it -- but usually the system pack was on RP06...)
                          > Bill

                          First of all, a 2020 is a *KS*, so it's smaller. Second of all, I
                          currently run an IBM S/390 G1 (some Bipolar, some CMOS) in my house,
                          which is bigger than a KS.

                          I used to run an IBM ES/9021 in my parents' house which ran *much*
                          hotter than a KL-10. I had to pour a concrete pad outside for the heat
                          exchanger.

                          I currently run an S/390 G1 (including CPU + DASD controller + 1 DASD
                          rack + 3490 tape jukebox), VAX 6660, VAX 7640 and a couple racks full of
                          other gear in my dining room. There's also a VAX 8700 in there, but it
                          isn't powered on. I had to reinforce the floor to hold the weight.

                          There are dozens of other machines in various places in the house.
                          Including a PDP-11/70 (in the basement), which I've had since I was
                          about 11 years old.

                          I have years of experience running mainframes in a residential setting.

                          Peace... Sridhar

                        • William Pechter
                          I didn t think Compuserve ran on a KS... They re a lot smaller and IIRC they used a bit slice AMD processor... kind of like the 11/730 of DEC PDP10 s... I can
                          Message 12 of 29 , Oct 25, 2006
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                            I didn't think Compuserve ran on a KS...
                            They're a lot smaller and IIRC they used a bit slice AMD processor... kind of like the 11/730 of DEC PDP10's...
                            I can really appreciate the work that goes into getting a mainframe running in a residential setting -- but I'm surprised the ES ran cooler than a KL...
                            That was one of the biggest power sucking beasts DEC had (except for my favorite VAX  --- the 8650.  The 440 volt feed to that one was amazing.
                            I don't have the info on what sucked more power -- the KL or the Venus.
                            The machine I'd love to have had here was the KB11-CM 11/74 single CPU that we had in DEC Princeton.  An 11/70 in the DEC Datasystem 570 blue would be my next choice and the Red White and Blue11/45 Industrial PDP11 would be next. (Just for the cool look factor...)
                            Bill
                            Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster@...> wrote:
                            William Pechter wrote:
                            > A KL is about 10 foot long by about 5 foot in width (footprint) and
                            > pulls a ton of power -- and it's hot running ECL. Think about 3 or 4
                            > 11/70 mini's in the room.
                            > This is 10K ECL logic IIRC. To run it requires the front end 11/40 and
                            > the rest of the ECL logic. Not to mention the RP06 Memorex 667 (IIRC)
                            > disk drives with their power load and weight. (Could be lucky and have
                            > RM05's on it -- but usually the system pack was on RP06...)
                            > Bill

                            First of all, a 2020 is a *KS*, so it's smaller. Second of all, I
                            currently run an IBM S/390 G1 (some Bipolar, some CMOS) in my house,
                            which is bigger than a KS.

                            I used to run an IBM ES/9021 in my parents' house which ran *much*
                            hotter than a KL-10. I had to pour a concrete pad outside for the heat
                            exchanger.

                            I currently run an S/390 G1 (including CPU + DASD controller + 1 DASD
                            rack + 3490 tape jukebox), VAX 6660, VAX 7640 and a couple racks full of
                            other gear in my dining room. There's also a VAX 8700 in there, but it
                            isn't powered on. I had to reinforce the floor to hold the weight.

                            There are dozens of other machines in various places in the house.
                            Including a PDP-11/70 (in the basement), which I've had since I was
                            about 11 years old.

                            I have years of experience running mainframes in a residential setting.

                            Peace... Sridhar

                          • B. Degnan
                            I have an IBM Series 1 system with three mammoth hard drives, tape drive, disk drive. I plan to (attempt to) power it up this winter to heat my house. Bill
                            Message 13 of 29 , Oct 25, 2006
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                              I have an IBM Series 1 system with three mammoth hard drives, tape drive, disk drive.  I plan to (attempt to) power it up this winter to heat my house.

                              Bill

                              At 06:31 PM 10/25/2006 -0700, you wrote:
                              I didn't think Compuserve ran on a KS...
                              They're a lot smaller and IIRC they used a bit slice AMD processor... kind of like the 11/730 of DEC PDP10's...
                              I can really appreciate the work that goes into getting a mainframe running in a residential setting -- but I'm surprised the ES ran cooler than a KL...
                              That was one of the biggest power sucking beasts DEC had (except for my favorite VAX  --- the 8650.  The 440 volt feed to that one was amazing.
                              I don't have the info on what sucked more power -- the KL or the Venus.
                              The machine I'd love to have had here was the KB11-CM 11/74 single CPU that we had in DEC Princeton.  An 11/70 in the DEC Datasystem 570 blue would be my next choice and the Red White and Blue11/45 Industrial PDP11 would be next. (Just for the cool look factor...)
                              Bill
                              Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster@...> wrote:
                              William Pechter wrote:
                              > A KL is about 10 foot long by about 5 foot in width (footprint) and
                              > pulls a ton of power -- and it's hot running ECL. Think about 3 or 4
                              > 11/70 mini's in the room.
                              > This is 10K ECL logic IIRC. To run it requires the front end 11/40 and
                              > the rest of the ECL logic. Not to mention the RP06 Memorex 667 (IIRC)
                              > disk drives with their power load and weight. (Could be lucky and have
                              > RM05's on it -- but usually the system pack was on RP06...)
                              > Bill

                              First of all, a 2020 is a *KS*, so it's smaller. Second of all, I
                              currently run an IBM S/390 G1 (some Bipolar, some CMOS) in my house,
                              which is bigger than a KS.

                              I used to run an IBM ES/9021 in my parents' house which ran *much*
                              hotter than a KL-10. I had to pour a concrete pad outside for the heat
                              exchanger.

                              I currently run an S/390 G1 (including CPU + DASD controller + 1 DASD
                              rack + 3490 tape jukebox), VAX 6660, VAX 7640 and a couple racks full of
                              other gear in my dining room. There's also a VAX 8700 in there, but it
                              isn't powered on. I had to reinforce the floor to hold the weight.

                              There are dozens of other machines in various places in the house.
                              Including a PDP-11/70 (in the basement), which I've had since I was
                              about 11 years old.

                              I have years of experience running mainframes in a residential setting.

                              Peace... Sridhar


                            • William Pechter
                              Series 1 stuff is smaller than the 2020 and the KL stuff... I figure Series/1 stuff is pretty similar to PDP11 stuff in power draw. I worked on a number of
                              Message 14 of 29 , Oct 26, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Series 1 stuff is smaller than the 2020 and the KL stuff...

                                I figure Series/1 stuff is pretty similar to PDP11 stuff in power draw.
                                I worked on a number of them with CDC9766 (RM05-like) drives
                                when I was at TRW.  I never did get to play much with the OS...

                                Bill


                                "B. Degnan" <billdeg@...> wrote:
                                I have an IBM Series 1 system with three mammoth hard drives, tape drive, disk drive.  I plan to (attempt to) power it up this winter to heat my house.

                                Bill

                                At 06:31 PM 10/25/2006 -0700, you wrote:
                                I didn't think Compuserve ran on a KS...
                                They're a lot smaller and IIRC they used a bit slice AMD processor... kind of like the 11/730 of DEC PDP10's...
                                I can really appreciate the work that goes into getting a mainframe running in a residential setting -- but I'm surprised the ES ran cooler than a KL...
                                That was one of the biggest power sucking beasts DEC had (except for my favorite VAX  --- the 8650.  The 440 volt feed to that one was amazing.
                                I don't have the info on what sucked more power -- the KL or the Venus.
                                The machine I'd love to have had here was the KB11-CM 11/74 single CPU that we had in DEC Princeton.  An 11/70 in the DEC Datasystem 570 blue would be my next choice and the Red White and Blue11/45 Industrial PDP11 would be next. (Just for the cool look factor...)
                                Bill
                                Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster@gmail. com> wrote:
                                William Pechter wrote:
                                > A KL is about 10 foot long by about 5 foot in width (footprint) and
                                > pulls a ton of power -- and it's hot running ECL. Think about 3 or 4
                                > 11/70 mini's in the room.
                                > This is 10K ECL logic IIRC. To run it requires the front end 11/40 and
                                > the rest of the ECL logic. Not to mention the RP06 Memorex 667 (IIRC)
                                > disk drives with their power load and weight. (Could be lucky and have
                                > RM05's on it -- but usually the system pack was on RP06...)
                                > Bill

                                First of all, a 2020 is a *KS*, so it's smaller. Second of all, I
                                currently run an IBM S/390 G1 (some Bipolar, some CMOS) in my house,
                                which is bigger than a KS.

                                I used to run an IBM ES/9021 in my parents' house which ran *much*
                                hotter than a KL-10. I had to pour a concrete pad outside for the heat
                                exchanger.

                                I currently run an S/390 G1 (including CPU + DASD controller + 1 DASD
                                rack + 3490 tape jukebox), VAX 6660, VAX 7640 and a couple racks full of
                                other gear in my dining room. There's also a VAX 8700 in there, but it
                                isn't powered on. I had to reinforce the floor to hold the weight.

                                There are dozens of other machines in various places in the house.
                                Including a PDP-11/70 (in the basement), which I've had since I was
                                about 11 years old.

                                I have years of experience running mainframes in a residential setting.

                                Peace... Sridhar



                              • Bob Applegate
                                It sounds like we should have a meeting at Sridhar s house!!! Do you have a picture of your dining room on the web someplace? Bob ... From: Sridhar Ayengar To:
                                Message 15 of 29 , Oct 26, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  It sounds like we should have a meeting at Sridhar's house!!!
                                   
                                  Do you have a picture of your dining room on the web someplace?
                                   
                                  Bob
                                   
                                   
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 4:56 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Re: Decsystem 20/20 (Digital/DEC) bigger than a pdp11

                                  William Pechter wrote:
                                  > A KL is about 10 foot long by about 5 foot in width (footprint) and
                                  > pulls a ton of power -- and it's hot running ECL. Think about 3 or 4
                                  > 11/70 mini's in the room.
                                  > This is 10K ECL logic IIRC. To run it requires the front end 11/40 and
                                  > the rest of the ECL logic. Not to mention the RP06 Memorex 667 (IIRC)
                                  > disk drives with their power load and weight. (Could be lucky and have
                                  > RM05's on it -- but usually the system pack was on RP06...)
                                  > Bill

                                  First of all, a 2020 is a *KS*, so it's smaller. Second of all, I
                                  currently run an IBM S/390 G1 (some Bipolar, some CMOS) in my house,
                                  which is bigger than a KS.

                                  I used to run an IBM ES/9021 in my parents' house which ran *much*
                                  hotter than a KL-10. I had to pour a concrete pad outside for the heat
                                  exchanger.

                                  I currently run an S/390 G1 (including CPU + DASD controller + 1 DASD
                                  rack + 3490 tape jukebox), VAX 6660, VAX 7640 and a couple racks full of
                                  other gear in my dining room. There's also a VAX 8700 in there, but it
                                  isn't powered on. I had to reinforce the floor to hold the weight.

                                  There are dozens of other machines in various places in the house.
                                  Including a PDP-11/70 (in the basement), which I've had since I was
                                  about 11 years old.

                                  I have years of experience running mainframes in a residential setting.

                                  Peace... Sridhar

                                • Sridhar Ayengar
                                  ... There aren t that many places to sit down. I have more computers than furniture. 8-) Plus, most of my hardware might not be considered classic . ... No
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Oct 26, 2006
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                                    Bob Applegate wrote:
                                    > It sounds like we should have a meeting at Sridhar's house!!!

                                    There aren't that many places to sit down. I have more computers than
                                    furniture. 8-)

                                    Plus, most of my hardware might not be considered "classic".

                                    > Do you have a picture of your dining room on the web someplace?

                                    No but I can take one tonight.

                                    Peace... Sridhar
                                  • Herb Johnson
                                    There were lots of comments following my reply to casual interest in the DECsystem 20 on eBay. First; those not familiar with the KS-20 should look at the eBay
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Oct 26, 2006
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                                      There were lots of comments following my reply to casual interest in
                                      the DECsystem 20 on eBay.

                                      First; those not familiar with the KS-20 should look at the eBay
                                      listing. It's a SMALL mainframe, but still a machine that needs, er,
                                      some thought before purchase. At $4K in current bidding between two
                                      people, I don't think MARCH plans to chase this "item", and it does
                                      not need rescue.

                                      There were comments about the KS versus the larger KL. It happens that
                                      the KS I ran was replaced after I left with a KL. They had to DOUBLE
                                      the air conditioning to two 5-TON A/C's (60,000 BTU's EACH). This
                                      machine ran 24/7 of course. I know it used much more electrical power
                                      too. The room had NO RAISED FLOOR; with the KL in there the air volume
                                      in the room was so loud and swift that it was dangerous to your
                                      hearing; raised floors keep that noise underneath the floor.

                                      Comments about Compuserve: I knew people at the time at Compuserve.
                                      They used KL's and KI's (bigger DEC mainframes) to run their systems,
                                      and KS's for network controllers throughout their 1980's network. They
                                      ran a proprietary OS.

                                      Comments about running these systems "at home". Sridhar says "I've
                                      done it at home...as a teenager.." In subsequent posts he hints at
                                      what that actually took: "had to reinforce the floor to hold the
                                      weight"; "had to pour a concrete pad outside for the heat exchanger".
                                      That's my point, Sridhar: you have to do SIGNIFIGANT SITE PREPARATION
                                      to run these things, most notibly air conditioning and electrical
                                      power. There are costs to doing so. One can run them until "it starts
                                      to get hot", some people I know of only run their mainframes in the
                                      winter, in the garage. Sridhar, all these choices have consequences
                                      for use: why not think ahead about them?

                                      Since MARCH apparently has a number of people who are experienced in
                                      owning and running mainframes, then MARCH has some access to good
                                      advice and SUPPORT (if persons come forward) if there is a decision to
                                      obtain some mainframe and to put it to a PLAN of use. But given the
                                      space and access to electrical power MARCH has, I'd imagine that PLAN
                                      would be to RUN IT for some extended period on a regular basis.
                                      InfoAge would certainly have to agree, and I presume some deal for
                                      paying for power would be necessary. Unless, as in the case of Claude
                                      Kagan's Burroughs system, it's far too old to operate and is
                                      sufficiently valuable as legacy for display and preservation.

                                      But I don't set policy and I don't know any plans, these are my
                                      opinions. I will not be in charge of any mainframe for MARCH. It's too
                                      big a commitment for my time, it's not in my area of old computing
                                      interests. I'm glad others are interested, I hope they step forward
                                      when and IF a PLAN is discussed.

                                      Herb Johnson

                                      Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
                                      <a href="http://retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/"> web site</a>
                                      <a href="http://retrotechnology.net/herbs_stuff/"> domain mirror</a>
                                      my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
                                      if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
                                      "Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
                                      S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"
                                    • Evan Koblentz
                                      Group announcement: MARCH now stands for, Mainframes Are Really Cool, Herb! ... - Evan ... From: Herb Johnson [mailto:hjohnson@retrotechnology.com] Sent:
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Oct 26, 2006
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Group announcement: MARCH now stands for, "Mainframes Are Really Cool,
                                        Herb!"



                                        :-)



                                        - Evan


                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Herb Johnson [mailto:hjohnson@...]
                                        Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 11:33 AM
                                        To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: [midatlanticretro] Re: Decsystem 20/20 (Digital/DEC) bigger than a
                                        pdp11

                                        There were lots of comments following my reply to casual interest in the
                                        DECsystem 20 on eBay.

                                        First; those not familiar with the KS-20 should look at the eBay listing.
                                        It's a SMALL mainframe, but still a machine that needs, er, some thought
                                        before purchase. At $4K in current bidding between two people, I don't think
                                        MARCH plans to chase this "item", and it does not need rescue.

                                        There were comments about the KS versus the larger KL. It happens that the
                                        KS I ran was replaced after I left with a KL. They had to DOUBLE the air
                                        conditioning to two 5-TON A/C's (60,000 BTU's EACH). This machine ran 24/7
                                        of course. I know it used much more electrical power too. The room had NO
                                        RAISED FLOOR; with the KL in there the air volume in the room was so loud
                                        and swift that it was dangerous to your hearing; raised floors keep that
                                        noise underneath the floor.

                                        Comments about Compuserve: I knew people at the time at Compuserve.
                                        They used KL's and KI's (bigger DEC mainframes) to run their systems, and
                                        KS's for network controllers throughout their 1980's network. They ran a
                                        proprietary OS.

                                        Comments about running these systems "at home". Sridhar says "I've done it
                                        at home...as a teenager.." In subsequent posts he hints at what that
                                        actually took: "had to reinforce the floor to hold the weight"; "had to pour
                                        a concrete pad outside for the heat exchanger".
                                        That's my point, Sridhar: you have to do SIGNIFIGANT SITE PREPARATION to run
                                        these things, most notibly air conditioning and electrical power. There are
                                        costs to doing so. One can run them until "it starts to get hot", some
                                        people I know of only run their mainframes in the winter, in the garage.
                                        Sridhar, all these choices have consequences for use: why not think ahead
                                        about them?

                                        Since MARCH apparently has a number of people who are experienced in owning
                                        and running mainframes, then MARCH has some access to good advice and
                                        SUPPORT (if persons come forward) if there is a decision to obtain some
                                        mainframe and to put it to a PLAN of use. But given the space and access to
                                        electrical power MARCH has, I'd imagine that PLAN would be to RUN IT for
                                        some extended period on a regular basis.
                                        InfoAge would certainly have to agree, and I presume some deal for paying
                                        for power would be necessary. Unless, as in the case of Claude Kagan's
                                        Burroughs system, it's far too old to operate and is sufficiently valuable
                                        as legacy for display and preservation.

                                        But I don't set policy and I don't know any plans, these are my opinions. I
                                        will not be in charge of any mainframe for MARCH. It's too big a commitment
                                        for my time, it's not in my area of old computing interests. I'm glad others
                                        are interested, I hope they step forward when and IF a PLAN is discussed.

                                        Herb Johnson

                                        Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
                                        <a href="http://retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/"> web site</a> <a
                                        href="http://retrotechnology.net/herbs_stuff/"> domain mirror</a> my email
                                        address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com if no reply, try in a few
                                        days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net "Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch
                                        floppy drives S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"





                                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      • Sridhar Ayengar
                                        ... LOL Peace... Sridhar
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Oct 26, 2006
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                                          Evan Koblentz wrote:
                                          > Group announcement: MARCH now stands for, "Mainframes Are Really Cool,
                                          > Herb!"
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > :-)

                                          LOL

                                          Peace... Sridhar
                                        • B. Degnan
                                          On a tangent ...I have two racks of servers (modern ones) that draw 600-900W per power supply each. I am sure that the IBM Series 1 ate a lot of juice, but
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Oct 26, 2006
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                                            On a tangent ...I have two racks of servers (modern ones) that draw
                                            600-900W per power supply each. I am sure that the IBM Series 1 ate a lot
                                            of juice, but would they really pop a 40 AMP circuit breaker? I will check
                                            the manuals if anyone is interested. Here is the inventory of the IBM
                                            Series 1 system at my house. It was given to me by Roy Soltoff.

                                            IBM Series 1 System Inventory:
                                            qty) description
                                            2) 6' IBM 4997 Rack Units with shelves to house the processor and peripherals.
                                            1) IBM 4956 Processor (see
                                            http://www.btxmuseum.de/Hardware/geraet.asp?id=120 for German
                                            equivalent pic of control panel) See also below.
                                            1) Cambex Corp Model 80810 2-tape drive storage device (no tapes)
                                            1) IBM 4962 8" disk drive (w/ 3 boxes of software)
                                            1) IBM 4967 Hard drive (69kg)
                                            1) IBM 4963 Hard drive (55kg)
                                            1) IBM 4963A Hard drive (55kg)
                                            1) IBM 4978 display station and keyboard (display is bad, single horizontal
                                            line only. Unsure if it is part of the original Series 1 set up.)
                                            12) Series I system software/hardware manuals "standard 3-ring binder sized"
                                            20) Series I system software/hardware manuals (tall, blue, with IBM written
                                            on them)
                                            There is documentation for all components, plus service logs, software
                                            documentation, installation instructions, etc. Pretty complete.

                                            Misc. papers and other documentation and receipts.

                                            3 boxes of IBM software on 8" disks, including diagnostics for hardware.
                                            1 box of cables and jacks for additional display stations/terminals
                                            1 box of printer ribbons (no printer)

                                            product literature and period IBM sales circulars, etc.

                                            * The 4956 Processor is full of the appropriate cards for the peripherals
                                            (hard drives,
                                            tape drive, terminals, etc.) The system appears to have been upgraded at
                                            least once. I
                                            have been able to cable up most peripherals to the matching processor
                                            cards. I do not
                                            plan to power up the system at this time. I have cleaned each subsystem,
                                            but overall it
                                            was "clean enough" already. Most of the wear is on the rack unit, dings
                                            and the like.

                                            16 serial ports I believe.

                                            Overall condition is OK. Some dust removed. Not powered on.




                                            Bill D

                                            At 12:38 PM 10/26/2006 -0400, you wrote:
                                            >Evan Koblentz wrote:
                                            > > Group announcement: MARCH now stands for, "Mainframes Are Really Cool,
                                            > > Herb!"
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > :-)
                                            >
                                            >LOL
                                            >
                                            >Peace... Sridhar
                                          • Herb Johnson
                                            ... (chuckle) The DEC-20 went to one of four bidders at $16,000 DOLLARS. Who s laughing now? I think the seller, probably the buyer too. Herb
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Oct 27, 2006
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                                              --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Sridhar Ayengar
                                              <ploopster@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Evan Koblentz wrote:
                                              > > Group announcement: MARCH now stands for, "Mainframes Are Really Cool,
                                              > > Herb!"
                                              > >
                                              > > :-)
                                              >
                                              > LOL
                                              >
                                              > Peace... Sridhar
                                              >

                                              (chuckle) The DEC-20 went to one of four bidders at $16,000 DOLLARS.
                                              Who's laughing now? I think the seller, probably the buyer too.

                                              Herb
                                            • Sridhar Ayengar
                                              ... If I had had that much money, I would have spent it on that. Peace... Sridhar
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Oct 27, 2006
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                                                Herb Johnson wrote:
                                                > (chuckle) The DEC-20 went to one of four bidders at $16,000 DOLLARS.
                                                > Who's laughing now? I think the seller, probably the buyer too.

                                                If I had had that much money, I would have spent it on that.

                                                Peace... Sridhar
                                              • Evan Koblentz
                                                If I had that much money I would pay off my car loan..... ... From: Sridhar Ayengar [mailto:ploopster@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 4:10 PM To:
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Oct 27, 2006
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  If I had that much money I would pay off my car loan.....

                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: Sridhar Ayengar [mailto:ploopster@...]
                                                  Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 4:10 PM
                                                  To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Re: Decsystem 20/20 (Digital/DEC) bigger
                                                  than a pdp11

                                                  Herb Johnson wrote:
                                                  > (chuckle) The DEC-20 went to one of four bidders at $16,000 DOLLARS.
                                                  > Who's laughing now? I think the seller, probably the buyer too.

                                                  If I had had that much money, I would have spent it on that.

                                                  Peace... Sridhar



                                                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                • Alexey Toptygin
                                                  ... If I had that much money, I d take a sabbatical to play with my collection of classic computers... round tuits are the thing in shortest supply in my life.
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Oct 27, 2006
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                                                    On Fri, 27 Oct 2006, Evan Koblentz wrote:

                                                    > If I had that much money I would pay off my car loan.....

                                                    If I had that much money, I'd take a sabbatical to play with my collection
                                                    of classic computers... round tuits are the thing in shortest supply in my
                                                    life.

                                                    Alexey
                                                  • Stanley Brewer
                                                    I remember Claude saying that he was the only private residence in NJ to have 3 phase power. The RESISTORS could only run the Burroughs B-205 in the winter,
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Jun 27, 2008
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                                                      I remember Claude saying that he was the only private residence in NJ
                                                      to have 3 phase power. The RESISTORS could only run the Burroughs
                                                      B-205 in the winter, even then it got so hot in the barn that they had
                                                      to open windows!

                                                      Stan


                                                      --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "B. Degnan" <billdeg@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > I have an IBM Series 1 system with three mammoth hard drives, tape
                                                      drive,
                                                      > disk drive. I plan to (attempt to) power it up this winter to heat
                                                      my house.
                                                      >
                                                      > Bill
                                                      >
                                                      > At 06:31 PM 10/25/2006 -0700, you wrote:
                                                      > >I didn't think Compuserve ran on a KS...
                                                      > >They're a lot smaller and IIRC they used a bit slice AMD
                                                      processor... kind
                                                      > >of like the 11/730 of DEC PDP10's...
                                                      > >I can really appreciate the work that goes into getting a mainframe
                                                      > >running in a residential setting -- but I'm surprised the ES ran
                                                      cooler
                                                      > >than a KL...
                                                      > >That was one of the biggest power sucking beasts DEC had (except
                                                      for my
                                                      > >favorite VAX --- the 8650. The 440 volt feed to that one was amazing.
                                                      > >I don't have the info on what sucked more power -- the KL or the Venus.
                                                      > >The machine I'd love to have had here was the KB11-CM 11/74 single CPU
                                                      > >that we had in DEC Princeton. An 11/70 in the DEC Datasystem 570 blue
                                                      > >would be my next choice and the Red White and Blue11/45 Industrial
                                                      PDP11
                                                      > >would be next. (Just for the cool look factor...)
                                                      > >Bill
                                                      > >Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster@...> wrote:
                                                      > >William Pechter wrote:
                                                      > > > A KL is about 10 foot long by about 5 foot in width (footprint) and
                                                      > > > pulls a ton of power -- and it's hot running ECL. Think about 3 or 4
                                                      > > > 11/70 mini's in the room.
                                                      > > > This is 10K ECL logic IIRC. To run it requires the front end
                                                      11/40 and
                                                      > > > the rest of the ECL logic. Not to mention the RP06 Memorex 667
                                                      (IIRC)
                                                      > > > disk drives with their power load and weight. (Could be lucky
                                                      and have
                                                      > > > RM05's on it -- but usually the system pack was on RP06...)
                                                      > > > Bill
                                                      > >
                                                      > >First of all, a 2020 is a *KS*, so it's smaller. Second of all, I
                                                      > >currently run an IBM S/390 G1 (some Bipolar, some CMOS) in my house,
                                                      > >which is bigger than a KS.
                                                      > >
                                                      > >I used to run an IBM ES/9021 in my parents' house which ran *much*
                                                      > >hotter than a KL-10. I had to pour a concrete pad outside for the heat
                                                      > >exchanger.
                                                      > >
                                                      > >I currently run an S/390 G1 (including CPU + DASD controller + 1 DASD
                                                      > >rack + 3490 tape jukebox), VAX 6660, VAX 7640 and a couple racks
                                                      full of
                                                      > >other gear in my dining room. There's also a VAX 8700 in there, but it
                                                      > >isn't powered on. I had to reinforce the floor to hold the weight.
                                                      > >
                                                      > >There are dozens of other machines in various places in the house.
                                                      > >Including a PDP-11/70 (in the basement), which I've had since I was
                                                      > >about 11 years old.
                                                      > >
                                                      > >I have years of experience running mainframes in a residential setting.
                                                      > >
                                                      > >Peace... Sridhar
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                    • Sridhar Ayengar
                                                      ... I know someone who lives in New Jersey and has three-phase service to provide power to a three-phase compressor he uses to run his automotive lift as well
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Jun 28, 2008
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        Stanley Brewer wrote:
                                                        > I remember Claude saying that he was the only private residence in NJ
                                                        > to have 3 phase power. The RESISTORS could only run the Burroughs
                                                        > B-205 in the winter, even then it got so hot in the barn that they had
                                                        > to open windows!

                                                        I know someone who lives in New Jersey and has three-phase service to
                                                        provide power to a three-phase compressor he uses to run his automotive
                                                        lift as well as a variety of pneumatic tools at the house.

                                                        I don't know if he had it long enough ago to have had it when Claude was
                                                        speaking, though. He is an older fellow.

                                                        Peace... Sridhar
                                                      • Stan Brewer
                                                        Older than Claude? : ) Claude must have been being figurative. Stan
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Jun 28, 2008
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          Older than Claude?  : )
                                                          Claude must have been being figurative.                

                                                                                   Stan

                                                          Sridhar Ayengar wrote:

                                                          Stanley Brewer wrote:
                                                          > I remember Claude saying that he was the only private residence in NJ
                                                          > to have 3 phase power. The RESISTORS could only run the Burroughs
                                                          > B-205 in the winter, even then it got so hot in the barn that they had
                                                          > to open windows!

                                                          I know someone who lives in New Jersey and has three-phase service to
                                                          provide power to a three-phase compressor he uses to run his automotive
                                                          lift as well as a variety of pneumatic tools at the house.

                                                          I don't know if he had it long enough ago to have had it when Claude was
                                                          speaking, though. He is an older fellow.

                                                          Peace... Sridhar

                                                        • Sridhar Ayengar
                                                          ... I m not comepletely sure how old Claude is. He looks like 70s or 80s. If so, this guy would roughly be the same age. Classic car old-timer. ... Indeed.
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Jun 28, 2008
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                                                            Stan Brewer wrote:
                                                            > Older than Claude? : )

                                                            I'm not comepletely sure how old Claude is. He looks like 70s or 80s.
                                                            If so, this guy would roughly be the same age. Classic car old-timer.

                                                            > Claude must have been being figurative.

                                                            Indeed.

                                                            Peace... Sridhar

                                                            > Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
                                                            >>
                                                            >> Stanley Brewer wrote:
                                                            >> > I remember Claude saying that he was the only private residence in NJ
                                                            >> > to have 3 phase power. The RESISTORS could only run the Burroughs
                                                            >> > B-205 in the winter, even then it got so hot in the barn that they had
                                                            >> > to open windows!
                                                            >>
                                                            >> I know someone who lives in New Jersey and has three-phase service to
                                                            >> provide power to a three-phase compressor he uses to run his automotive
                                                            >> lift as well as a variety of pneumatic tools at the house.
                                                            >>
                                                            >> I don't know if he had it long enough ago to have had it when Claude was
                                                            >> speaking, though. He is an older fellow.
                                                            >>
                                                            >> Peace... Sridhar
                                                            >>
                                                            >
                                                          • Herb Johnson
                                                            ... I ve been out of town and so did not follow this thread until my return. Here s some comments. I ran a KA-10 for Ohio State, and later established the site
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Jul 9 2:48 PM
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                                                              William Pechter <bpechter@...> wrote:
                                                              >
                                                              > I didn't think Compuserve ran on a KS...
                                                              > They're a lot smaller and IIRC they used a bit slice AMD
                                                              > processor... kind of like the 11/730 of DEC PDP10's..

                                                              I've been out of town and so did not follow this thread until my
                                                              return. Here's some comments.

                                                              I ran a KA-10 for Ohio State, and later established the site for its
                                                              replacment, a KS-10 (the system in apparent discussion here). I was a
                                                              paid, full time, system manager. Both ran TOPS-10.

                                                              The KS is one pair of rather wide (24-inch) cabinets, and used much
                                                              less power than any other PDP-10 or -20. Compuserve used the KS-10's
                                                              as some kind of network node controller (whatever that was). OTherwise
                                                              they ran the KL's or KI's. Maybe they had a KA somewhere, at some time.

                                                              Anyone interested in what these are, can search the Web for PDP-10's
                                                              and PDP-20's, and get correct and better information.

                                                              There are probably software emulators for these machines. Again,
                                                              search the Web.

                                                              Running a mainframe, and keeping it running, is a serious commitment.
                                                              I get a little tired of saying that. So run around the Web, look for
                                                              people running these today. Size up what they are doing, come to your
                                                              own conclusions. Or, rent a truck, grab a mainframe and fill your
                                                              basement, and blow your circuit breakers as you learn. Or, run an
                                                              emulator and just wrassle with the software. Your call.

                                                              Herb Johnson
                                                              retrotechnology.com
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