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For Sale: PDP 11 and some old HP's in PA

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  • Tom Owad
    I have a PDP-11/23 for sale with the following componets in three 4- foot racks: Pictures: http://www.schnitz.com/pdp/ Rack 1: RL02 PDP-11/23 RL-02 The stuff
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 14, 2006
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      I have a PDP-11/23 for sale with the following componets in three 4-
      foot racks:

      Pictures: http://www.schnitz.com/pdp/

      Rack 1:
      RL02
      PDP-11/23
      RL-02
      The stuff sitting in front of the rack isn't related.

      Rack 2:
      Colorado Video Digitizer
      Chroma Keyer Decoder Model 4706
      Bosch unit
      Another video-related piece of equipment below that
      There's some wire-wrapped board sitting it the empty space below
      that. I'm not sure if it's a part of the system, or if I just stuck
      it there to save space. i'll pull it out tomorrow and take a look.

      Rack 3:
      Memory (possibly some other stuff mixed in there too, but the black
      units are primarily memory)
      Power Supply
      Fan

      Also included:
      Cabinet of RL02 cartridges. I recall at least one of the tapes was
      labeled "System" and something else. I can write down what they're
      all labeled, if it makesa difference to anybody.)
      Very large drawing tablet

      The fellow I bought this from told me it was used to do computer-
      generated graphics in the '70s and that it cost his company a quarter
      million dollars. I think it's depreciated since then. I bought it
      several years ago, but never did anything with it. It sat in his
      basement, then it sat in my garage. He told me it was working when
      decommissioned, but that was some time ago and it's utterly as-is.
      He also said it uses the same memory (behind the black panels) as in
      the Apple II.

      I bought a milling machine last week and need the room, so I'd like
      to see it go relatively soon. I'm in York, PA.


      I also picked up some HP-85B's at an auction last week. I only
      wanted two, so the rest are for sale. They came out of storage at a
      very nice lab and look like they're in great shape.

      Also available from the same auction is a system configured as follows:
      HP 9144 (tape drive)
      HP 7957B (hard drive)
      HP A-Series Controller 3065ST (board tester?)


      Make offer.

      Tom


      --
      Apple I Replica Creation: Back to the Garage
      By Tom Owad, Foreword by Steve Wozniak
      About the book: <www.applefritter.com/replica>
      OSNews Review: <www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=10085>
    • Herb Johnson
      Tom Owad wrote: [summary] ... The RL02 tapes are in fact removable hard disk drive packs. Anyone who gets these should inspect them VERY CAREFULLY
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 16, 2006
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        Tom Owad <owad@...> wrote: [summary]
        >
        > I have a PDP-11/23 for sale with the following componets in three 4-
        > foot racks:
        >
        > Pictures: http://www.schnitz.com/pdp/
        >
        > I'm in York, PA.
        >
        > I also picked up some HP-85B's at an auction last week. I only
        > wanted two, so the rest are for sale. They came out of storage at a
        > very nice lab and look like they're in great shape.
        >
        > Also available from the same auction is a system
        > configured as follows:
        > HP 9144 (tape drive)
        > HP 7957B (hard drive)
        > HP A-Series Controller 3065ST (board tester?)
        >
        > Make offer.
        > Tom

        The RL02 "tapes" are in fact removable hard disk drive packs. Anyone
        who gets these should inspect them VERY CAREFULLY for any damage,
        mold, rust before putting them in the RLO2 disk drive. This is old
        technology, I think 5MB-10MB per cartridge. The 11/23 is a old Qbus
        PDP-11, not as old as the Unibus machines.

        I find the HP-85's interesting, as they were around when I was an
        engineer at Kodak. I brought one to the DE SwapMeet; Bill Degnan
        brought a similar machine. What do the 85's have for storage & display
        - screen, floppy, tape, ?? What's the details on the HP system - are
        those HPIB / IEEE-488 peripherals? (odd D-shaped connector, odd
        cables.) Are they part of an HP85 system, or
        another HP system? What kind of tape? hard drive?

        I'm near Trenton NJ; I might assist someone acquiring these units. I
        don't have space for the PDP stuff. I might be interested in some of
        the HP stuff.

        I'm thinking about some kind of "industrial computer" event for 2007,
        where the rule is not "pre 1989 only" but "engineering, scientific,
        industrial computers only". Members with such machines may want to
        think about an event as well. I make no promises on my part, don't ask
        me until the new year.

        Herb Johnson

        Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
        <a href="http://retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/"> web site</a>
        <a href="http://retrotechnology.net/herbs_stuff/"> domain mirror</a>
        my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
        if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
        "Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
        S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"
      • Tom Owad
        ... The HP-85b s have CRT, tape, and printer (I thought they all were like that?). The other HP system is a bit newer (see picture: http://
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 26, 2006
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          On Oct 16, 2006, at 3:05 PM, Herb Johnson wrote:
          > I find the HP-85's interesting, as they were around when I was an
          > engineer at Kodak. I brought one to the DE SwapMeet; Bill Degnan
          > brought a similar machine. What do the 85's have for storage & display
          > - screen, floppy, tape, ?? What's the details on the HP system - are
          > those HPIB / IEEE-488 peripherals? (odd D-shaped connector, odd
          > cables.) Are they part of an HP85 system, or
          > another HP system? What kind of tape? hard drive?

          The HP-85b's have CRT, tape, and printer (I thought they all were
          like that?). The other HP system is a bit newer (see picture: http://
          www.schnitz.com/pdp/other.jpg) IIRC, the tape and hard drive are
          HPIB, but the other circuit-testing box has both GPIB and something
          else, IIRC. There's a fellow coming tomorrow who'll probably be
          taking those, but I can reserve an HP-85b for you, if you want.

          > I'm near Trenton NJ; I might assist someone acquiring these units. I
          > don't have space for the PDP stuff. I might be interested in some of
          > the HP stuff.

          Nobody expressed interest, so I put the item up on eBay Monday. Then
          I received this interesting email:

          "I'm fairly certain that I (and the eBayer who sent the link) built a
          good part of this system in between '83 and '87 for CGL (Computer
          Graphics Lab), a subsidiary of New York Institute of Technology,
          whose main product was a paint system called Images […] I also made
          colormaps and built-in brushes for that paint system ... it was a
          very powerful image creation tool, and set many precedents ..."

          From a little more research, it appears this computer may have been
          used to produce "The Works", which would have been the first 3D
          computer-animated movie, had it been released (beating Toy Story) by
          quite some time. Even if it wasn't, it was definitely built by CGL
          and used to run Images, which was a pretty interesting piece of early
          graphics software. I've since gotten in touch with a few other
          people who used to be part of the CGL at NYIT, and from what I've
          read, it was a pretty impressive and historically significant group.
          I'm really curious what's on the RL02 cartridges now (especially the
          "special effects" one) and nobody had bid on the auction, so I pulled
          it from eBay. My hope now is to take it down to InfoAge and perhaps
          we'll be able to get it running and recover some interesting old
          animations.

          Tom

          --
          Apple I Replica Creation: Back to the Garage
          By Tom Owad, Foreword by Steve Wozniak
          About the book: <www.applefritter.com/replica>
          OSNews Review: <www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=10085>
        • Herb Johnson
          ... I have two HP-85 s, but no peripherals. You can email me privately if any of the peripherals are available. I ll comment on the PDP-11 stuff seperately. -
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 27, 2006
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            --- Tom Owad <owad@...> wrote:
            >
            > On Oct 16, 2006, at 3:05 PM, Herb Johnson wrote:
            > > I find the HP-85's interesting, as they were around when I was an
            > > engineer at Kodak. I brought one to the DE SwapMeet; Bill Degnan
            > > brought a similar machine.

            > There's a fellow coming tomorrow who'll probably be
            > taking those, but I can reserve an HP-85b for you, if you want.

            I have two HP-85's, but no peripherals. You can email me privately if
            any of the peripherals are available.

            I'll comment on the PDP-11 stuff seperately. - Herb

            Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
            <a href="http://retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/"> web site</a>
            <a href="http://retrotechnology.net/herbs_stuff/"> domain mirror</a>
            my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
            if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
            "Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
            S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"
          • Herb Johnson
            ... *Now* we re talking! A Dec-20 (from the other discussion) is a big beast, but people have run PDP-11 s in all kinds of environments. Certainly, MARCH can
            Message 5 of 7 , Oct 27, 2006
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              --- Tom Owad <owad@...> wrote:

              > Nobody expressed interest, so I put the item up on eBay Monday. Then
              > I received this interesting email:
              >
              > "I'm fairly certain that I (and the eBayer who sent the
              > link) built a
              > good part of this system in between '83 and '87 for CGL (Computer
              > Graphics Lab), a subsidiary of New York Institute of Technology...
              >
              > From a little more research, it appears this computer may have been
              > used to produce "The Works", which would have been the first 3D
              > computer-animated movie, had it been released ...from what I've
              > read, [the DGL] was a pretty impressive and historically
              > significant group.
              > I'm really curious what's on the RL02 cartridges now (especially the
              > "special effects" one) and nobody had bid on the auction,
              > so I pulled
              > it from eBay. My hope now is to take it down to InfoAge and perhaps
              > we'll be able to get it running and recover some interesting old
              > animations.

              *Now* we're talking!

              A Dec-20 (from the other discussion) is a big beast, but people have
              run PDP-11's in all kinds of environments. Certainly, MARCH can run
              this or some kind of '11 with just a little bit of site fuss. A
              reasonably clean room with some kind of air conditioning (or not run
              it in the summer); some decent electrical power which InfoAge
              certainly has available. Might need a power conditioner, UPS,
              something of that sort - those are available to me from time to time.

              This is a do-able thing for MARCH. They already have some loose DEC
              stuff. But I assume this system is reasonably complete as it is. For a
              number of reasons it looks like it's worth keeping AND RUNNING if it
              can be run. I have some PDP-11 experience, I'm sure other members do,
              and we might attract still other people local to InfoAge who have some
              PDP-11 interest.

              Tom, if you want to do more than just dump it onto MARCH, why don't
              you get those hardware images you already have, the description you
              have, and set up a part of your Web site to support some kind of
              acquisition, restoration and USE of this system? You've already done
              some homework on it, so put that up on your page; as people inform you
              about it you can add to the page. Find out ALL YOU CAN from the
              previous owners. If you don't want to sustain a Web
              page for this system, someone else will probably pick up that ball
              when things get organized, if not do it on MARCH's Web site.

              In my own opinion, the value of an institution like InfoAge, and as
              MARCH intends to be, is that they are set up to provide SUSTAINED
              support for long-term projects, and projects involving preservation
              and public display and use. It may be early to say, but it's possible
              that this PDP-11 might be a good demonstration of 1980's minicomputing
              and also preserve a bit of computer graphics history. If not, it's
              good practice. I'm sure other projects like "the green screen
              experience" which has been talked about in this maillist, will follow
              some similar course.

              In any event, presuming MARCH has an interest, I assume that anyone
              who has an interest will want to know the state of the system: where
              it was, how long it sat, when it ran. Also some inventory of the
              system, beyond the images. Oh, and how to go about moving it, where
              and when and how much it weighs!

              But "adopting" a PDP-11 system like this is like adopting a cat or
              dog; you've gotta think it through. It's still a serious project; it
              will still take time, effort. It could be stored for awhile; but it's
              GOT to get attention, or it will fall apart sitting there. Guaranteed.
              Parts will get lost, things will get rusty, people will forget what
              cable came out of what card. It's not even clear if it is COMPLETE!

              So, what's the plan?

              Herb Johnson

              Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
              <a href="http://retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/"> web site</a>
              <a href="http://retrotechnology.net/herbs_stuff/"> domain mirror</a>
              my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
              if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
              "Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
              S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"
            • Jim Scheef
              Herb and all, I hope we can have a couple of relatively big machines at our museum, however, we don t need to run them to demontrate vintage computing of
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 30, 2006
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                Herb and all,

                I hope we can have a couple of relatively 'big' machines at our museum, however, we don't need to run them to demontrate 'vintage' computing of the multi-user type. Running DECnet in the museum would allow us to connect all sorts of stuff to a single network. A VAX would probably be easier to keep running and make it easier to obtain interesting software to demonstrate. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not against having a runnable PDP-x or two in the collection!

                Someone (you or Bill P.?) already warned that we need to be carefull we don't fill all our space with a few pieces of "big iron" and run out of space for all the interesting early micros that were the original impetus for this group.

                Jim


                ----- Original Message ----
                From: Herb Johnson <hjohnson@...>
                To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 4:11:13 PM
                Subject: [midatlanticretro] Re: For Sale: PDP 11 and some old HP's in PA

                --- Tom Owad <owad@...> wrote:

                > Nobody expressed interest, so I put the item up on eBay Monday. Then
                > I received this interesting email:
                >
                > "I'm fairly certain that I (and the eBayer who sent the
                > link) built a
                > good part of this system in between '83 and '87 for CGL (Computer
                > Graphics Lab), a subsidiary of New York Institute of Technology.. .
                >
                > From a little more research, it appears this computer may have been
                > used to produce "The Works", which would have been the first 3D
                > computer-animated movie, had it been released ...from what I've
                > read, [the DGL] was a pretty impressive and historically
                > significant group.
                > I'm really curious what's on the RL02 cartridges now (especially the
                > "special effects" one) and nobody had bid on the auction,
                > so I pulled
                > it from eBay. My hope now is to take it down to InfoAge and perhaps
                > we'll be able to get it running and recover some interesting old
                > animations.

                *Now* we're talking!

                A Dec-20 (from the other discussion) is a big beast, but people have
                run PDP-11's in all kinds of environments. Certainly, MARCH can run
                this or some kind of '11 with just a little bit of site fuss. A
                reasonably clean room with some kind of air conditioning (or not run
                it in the summer); some decent electrical power which InfoAge
                certainly has available. Might need a power conditioner, UPS,
                something of that sort - those are available to me from time to time.

                This is a do-able thing for MARCH. They already have some loose DEC
                stuff. But I assume this system is reasonably complete as it is. For a
                number of reasons it looks like it's worth keeping AND RUNNING if it
                can be run. I have some PDP-11 experience, I'm sure other members do,
                and we might attract still other people local to InfoAge who have some
                PDP-11 interest.

                Tom, if you want to do more than just dump it onto MARCH, why don't
                you get those hardware images you already have, the description you
                have, and set up a part of your Web site to support some kind of
                acquisition, restoration and USE of this system? You've already done
                some homework on it, so put that up on your page; as people inform you
                about it you can add to the page. Find out ALL YOU CAN from the
                previous owners. If you don't want to sustain a Web
                page for this system, someone else will probably pick up that ball
                when things get organized, if not do it on MARCH's Web site.

                In my own opinion, the value of an institution like InfoAge, and as
                MARCH intends to be, is that they are set up to provide SUSTAINED
                support for long-term projects, and projects involving preservation
                and public display and use. It may be early to say, but it's possible
                that this PDP-11 might be a good demonstration of 1980's minicomputing
                and also preserve a bit of computer graphics history. If not, it's
                good practice. I'm sure other projects like "the green screen
                experience" which has been talked about in this maillist, will follow
                some similar course.

                In any event, presuming MARCH has an interest, I assume that anyone
                who has an interest will want to know the state of the system: where
                it was, how long it sat, when it ran. Also some inventory of the
                system, beyond the images. Oh, and how to go about moving it, where
                and when and how much it weighs!

                But "adopting" a PDP-11 system like this is like adopting a cat or
                dog; you've gotta think it through. It's still a serious project; it
                will still take time, effort. It could be stored for awhile; but it's
                GOT to get attention, or it will fall apart sitting there. Guaranteed.
                Parts will get lost, things will get rusty, people will forget what
                cable came out of what card. It's not even clear if it is COMPLETE!

                So, what's the plan?

                Herb Johnson

                Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
                <a href="http://retrotechnol ogy.com/herbs_ stuff/"> web site</a>
                <a href="http://retrotechnol ogy.net/herbs_ stuff/"> domain mirror</a>
                my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
                if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
                "Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
                S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"


              • Alexey Toptygin
                ... Speaking of VAXen, you just reminded me that I have a MicroVAX II and a bunch of extra boards for it in untested but probably working condition sitting in
                Message 7 of 7 , Oct 30, 2006
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                  On Mon, 30 Oct 2006, Jim Scheef wrote:

                  > I hope we can have a couple of relatively 'big' machines at our museum,
                  > however, we don't need to run them to demontrate 'vintage' computing of
                  > the multi-user type. Running DECnet in the museum would allow us to
                  > connect all sorts of stuff to a single network. A VAX would probably be
                  > easier to keep running and make it easier to obtain interesting software
                  > to demonstrate. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not against having a
                  > runnable PDP-x or two in the collection!

                  Speaking of VAXen, you just reminded me that I have a MicroVAX II and a
                  bunch of extra boards for it in untested but probably working condition
                  sitting in my basement. I have no plans to use it in the near future, so
                  let me know if you guys want it.

                  Alexey
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