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Re: How hard is is to find an original Apple II

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  • buseyl
    ... always ... this ... Ebay ... thought ... I have one. It s a late Rev 0 with original firmware and single piece keyboard with raised button-like power
    Message 1 of 20 , Aug 30, 2006
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      --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "B. Degnan" <billdeg@...> wrote:
      >
      > When I search Ebay I routinely look for the following items:
      >
      > Altair
      > CBM
      > IMSAI
      > Sol
      > Apple II
      > Ploy 88
      > s-100
      > etc.
      >
      > ...to get an idea of the prices, interesting items, etc. I don't
      always
      > bid, but I like to see what the market prices are. I also search for
      > specific items as needed.
      >
      > I see a lot of Apple Plus's, but no original Apple II's. Anyone in
      this
      > group even have one? I can say with confidence that they appear on
      Ebay
      > less than PET's or TRS 80 Model 1's, even Altairs and IMSAI's. I
      thought
      > that they made a lot of the Apple II's...where are they now? No one
      > selling them? I find it hard to believe.
      >
      > Bill D

      I have one. It's a late Rev 0 with original firmware and single piece
      keyboard with raised button-like power light. I like mine but they're
      really no different than a ][+. The Apple ][ and ][+ were sold
      concurrently for a while. They used the same motherboard (which ever
      revision was current at the time) and the only diffence was the
      firmaware and the label on the lid. Find that hard to believe? Check
      page 27 of the Apple ][ Reference Manual.

      A lot more of the ][+ variety of Apple were sold than the original. It
      is my understanding that Apples didn't become super popular until the
      Disk ][ was introduced. It was only a couple month after that the ][+
      arrived.

      A lot of software would only run on the ][+ that didn't really need
      to. The original monitor on the ][ would allow you to break out of a
      program and take a peek at all the code. There was even a rudimentary
      debugger on board. These features were removed from the ][+'s
      autostart monitor. It is for this reason that some people used to call
      the ][+ the ][-. ;)

      I don't know why you don't see more of the plain ][ models. I imagine
      10's of thousands were made. Perhaps they were all thrown out? All the
      Apples I've ever seen have been completely socketed. While a great
      idea in theory, ~30 years later it leads to twitchy operation. As
      early ][ owner's are likely 'early adopter's', perhaps they just
      chucked at some point when they has become obsolete but before they
      became collectible.

      Liam
    • buseyl
      You should check out 1000Bit. In the manual section they have the Apple ][ Reference manual and a whole lot more (other comps too)! The best book for a
      Message 2 of 20 , Aug 30, 2006
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        You should check out 1000Bit. In the manual section they have the
        Apple ][ Reference manual and a whole lot more (other comps too)! The
        best book for a thurough understanding of how the Apple II works is
        "Understanding the Apple II" which is also available. It's extremely
        popular with the crowd on CSA2.

        www.1000bit.net

        Liam Busey


        --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Bob Grieb <bobgrieb@...> wrote:
        >
        > If anyone has an Apple ][ manual, the schematic is
        > included. So far I have not found a copy of it on the
        > web.
        >
        > Bob A - Do you have an Apple II manual?
        >
        > Bob Grieb
        >
        > --- macmothership <macmothership@...> wrote:
        >
        > > Last week I finilly aquired an original Apple II. I have had a II+
        > > for some time, but just
        > > never found an origiinal II for the right price. But this one has a
        > > problem that I'm hoping
        > > someone can help me with.
        > >
        > > • The computer turns on with a normal beep.
        > > • The monitor lights up, but with a set of maybe 4 pixel wide bars a
        > > pixel or so two apart vertically up the screen. In the lower left
        > > there
        > > is a blinking "cursor", which is actually a block of pixels the size
        > > of a character in the second bar, that blinks like a cursor.
        > > • The "cursor responds to keyboard input by moving to the right just
        > > like it should, but no text.
        > > The reset button functions normally, with a beep and a "return" of
        > > the cursor on screen.
        > > • "Control + G" rings the bell
        > > • Typing "Load + Return" cycles through about 10 lines and goes back
        > > to the blinking "cursor"
        > >
        > > Over the weekend, I switched out every chip that is socketed from the
        > > Apple II+ to the apple II one section or row at a time. I did RAM,
        > > ROMS, processor, everything. (that was a tedious job!)
        > > Each and every time there was no change in the symptoms. Also, I
        > > tried the II+ power supply and keyboard. I checked the bottom of the
        > > board for anything strange, but didn't see anything that looks out of
        > > wack.
        > >
        > > It almost seems like a fault in the location that takes the
        > > processor output and keyboard input and converts it or decodes it to
        > > ASCII characters for display on the video. If there is such a place,
        > > I'm just guessing, I'm not good at the component level.
        > >
        > > At this point, would you start to replace solid-state components,
        > > like resistors, capacitors and transistors? I'm not sure there is
        > > anything else left! Unless it is one of the couple of smaller chips
        > > (one near the video out, for example) that are soldered on the II+,
        > > but not on the II, and I couldn't switch.
        > >
        > > Any and all help would be greatly appreciated!
        > >
        > > Thanks,
        > > Jim
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________________________
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > http://mail.yahoo.com
        >
      • buseyl
        Hi Jim, I just read about your Apple troubles (I get the digest). It s kind of late tonight but maybe I can help. I have an Apple ][ rev 0 and an Apple ][+
        Message 3 of 20 , Aug 30, 2006
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          Hi Jim, I just read about your Apple troubles (I get the digest). It's
          kind of late tonight but maybe I can help. I have an Apple ][ rev 0
          and an Apple ][+ rev RFI D. All revisions of the Apple and Apple ][+
          are very similar but there are differences so you should be careful
          about swapping parts. For instance, the character generator in IIRC
          rev 7 Apples on up was changed to be pin compatible with a 2716 EPROM
          to allow for custom character sets. If you swap incompatible character
          generators something could get cooked. Do you know what revs your ][
          and ][+ motherboards are? Do you know firmware does your Apple has
          (autostart or old monitor, integer or Applesoft BASIC)?

          Good news. You get video, can move the cursor with the keyboard, and
          get the machine to beep with ctrl-G so your Apple mostly works. I
          wonder. Are you using a color monitor with your ][? Is the garbage
          color (lores) or mono (text)? I'd be curious to see if hires is
          working. The Applevision demo on the DOS 3.3 System Master disk would
          probably give you a good idea but that may be hard to type in blind.

          There're a lot of knowledgeable people here. I think the prognosis for
          your Apple is good.

          Liam

          --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "macmothership"
          <macmothership@...> wrote:
          >
          > I just want to say thanks to everyone who has taken the time to
          respond. It really means
          > alot to me, and when I eventually get this one working it will be
          quite a pleasure to display
          > it at upcoming MARCH events. It took me a long time to find an Apple
          II and I had almost
          > given up hope, so I had to jump on this one, even though it had
          problems. Cosmetically it
          > is quite good. Thanks again for your help so far.
          >
          > Jim
          >
          > --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, BOYD BORRILL <b.r.borrill@>
          wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi Evan;
          > > I've been following this thread all day and would like to make
          an offer. I have a book
          > published by SAMS, entitled "The Apple II Circuit Description" by
          Winston D. Gaylor.
          > > It is abut 2 inches thick, spiral bound and contains a complete
          set of circuit
          > descriptions for every revision of the Apple II from the olriginal
          through the Apple II +. It
          > includes timing diagrams, waveforms, keyboard differences and
          circuit/logic diagrams. It
          > thorolughly covers circuit analysis and how to tell the differences
          by the numbers of the
          > various models.
          > > I have sold two copies of this book on E-bay for up to $55.00. I
          recently found this
          > copy in a local thrift store and bought it. Considering the content
          of this thread I would
          > like to offer the following: I will give this book to MARCH as a
          contribution to pay my initial
          > financial offering (because I have no cash anymore). I would suggest
          that MARCH make it
          > available to members as needed, like a "lending Library" and
          otherwise keep it displayed in
          > the museum. It would save a lot of internet searching.
          > > Given a p;ositive response from you, and a mailing address, I
          could have it in your
          > hands in about a week.
          > > Ray
          > >
          > > Evan Koblentz <evan@> wrote:
          > > I'd guess that someone on classiccmp must have it.
          Perhaps someone like
          > > Hans Franke...?
          > >
          > > Or how about you, Tom Owad?
          > >
          > > Or just send an email to Sellam (sellam@) .... He'll either
          > > have it or know who does.
          > >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: Bob Grieb [mailto:bobgrieb@]
          > > Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 1:15 PM
          > > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Apple II Troubleshooting Question
          > >
          > > If anyone has an Apple ][ manual, the schematic is included. So
          far I have
          > > not found a copy of it on the web.
          > >
          > > Bob A - Do you have an Apple II manual?
          > >
          > > Bob Grieb
          > >
          > > --- macmothership <macmothership@> wrote:
          > >
          > > > Last week I finilly aquired an original Apple II. I have had a
          II+ for
          > > > some time, but just never found an origiinal II for the right
          price.
          > > > But this one has a problem that I'm hoping someone can help me with.
          > > >
          > > > . The computer turns on with a normal beep.
          > > > . The monitor lights up, but with a set of maybe 4 pixel wide
          bars a
          > > > pixel or so two apart vertically up the screen. In the lower left
          > > > there is a blinking "cursor", which is actually a block of
          pixels the
          > > > size of a character in the second bar, that blinks like a cursor.
          > > > . The "cursor responds to keyboard input by moving to the right
          just
          > > > like it should, but no text.
          > > > The reset button functions normally, with a beep and a "return"
          of the
          > > > cursor on screen.
          > > > . "Control + G" rings the bell
          > > > . Typing "Load + Return" cycles through about 10 lines and goes
          back
          > > > to the blinking "cursor"
          > > >
          > > > Over the weekend, I switched out every chip that is socketed
          from the
          > > > Apple II+ to the apple II one section or row at a time. I did RAM,
          > > > ROMS, processor, everything. (that was a tedious job!) Each and
          every
          > > > time there was no change in the symptoms. Also, I tried the II+
          power
          > > > supply and keyboard. I checked the bottom of the board for anything
          > > > strange, but didn't see anything that looks out of wack.
          > > >
          > > > It almost seems like a fault in the location that takes the
          processor
          > > > output and keyboard input and converts it or decodes it to ASCII
          > > > characters for display on the video. If there is such a place, I'm
          > > > just guessing, I'm not good at the component level.
          > > >
          > > > At this point, would you start to replace solid-state
          components, like
          > > > resistors, capacitors and transistors? I'm not sure there is
          anything
          > > > else left! Unless it is one of the couple of smaller chips (one
          near
          > > > the video out, for example) that are soldered on the II+, but
          not on
          > > > the II, and I couldn't switch.
          > > >
          > > > Any and all help would be greatly appreciated!
          > > >
          > > > Thanks,
          > > > Jim
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > __________________________________________________
          > > Do You Yahoo!?
          > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          > > http://mail.yahoo.com
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Pioneer Purveyor of Personal Processing Power
          > >
          >
        • macmothership
          I m going to try Herb s suggestion to see if it reads a disk, but I suspect it will. It seems to function. I just got a complete new ROM set I am going to try
          Message 4 of 20 , Aug 31, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            I'm going to try Herb's suggestion to see if it reads a disk, but I suspect it will. It seems to
            function. I just got a complete new ROM set I am going to try as well, although swapping
            with the II+ didn't change the symptoms.
            I've had a suggestion that the charactor ROM may be the problem. Is that the charactor
            generator that you mention? The large chip under the keyboard location?

            I did swap this with the II+ when doing the chip swap with no change in symptoms. The
            chip in the II looks weird, though. It is brown, has a clear circular window in the middle,
            and is marked with a large lower case letter i. But as I said swapping it didn't change
            anything.

            I know the Apple II isn't a REV 0 (It has the extra pin behind the video port) but other than
            that, I don't know any other details. I am using the B&W (green, actually) Apple tilting
            monitor

            Thanks!
            Jim




            --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "buseyl" <buseyl@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Jim, I just read about your Apple troubles (I get the digest). It's
            > kind of late tonight but maybe I can help. I have an Apple ][ rev 0
            > and an Apple ][+ rev RFI D. All revisions of the Apple and Apple ][+
            > are very similar but there are differences so you should be careful
            > about swapping parts. For instance, the character generator in IIRC
            > rev 7 Apples on up was changed to be pin compatible with a 2716 EPROM
            > to allow for custom character sets. If you swap incompatible character
            > generators something could get cooked. Do you know what revs your ][
            > and ][+ motherboards are? Do you know firmware does your Apple has
            > (autostart or old monitor, integer or Applesoft BASIC)?
            >
            > Good news. You get video, can move the cursor with the keyboard, and
            > get the machine to beep with ctrl-G so your Apple mostly works. I
            > wonder. Are you using a color monitor with your ][? Is the garbage
            > color (lores) or mono (text)? I'd be curious to see if hires is
            > working. The Applevision demo on the DOS 3.3 System Master disk would
            > probably give you a good idea but that may be hard to type in blind.
            >
            > There're a lot of knowledgeable people here. I think the prognosis for
            > your Apple is good.
            >
            > Liam
            >
            > --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "macmothership"
            > <macmothership@> wrote:
            > >
            > > I just want to say thanks to everyone who has taken the time to
            > respond. It really means
            > > alot to me, and when I eventually get this one working it will be
            > quite a pleasure to display
            > > it at upcoming MARCH events. It took me a long time to find an Apple
            > II and I had almost
            > > given up hope, so I had to jump on this one, even though it had
            > problems. Cosmetically it
            > > is quite good. Thanks again for your help so far.
            > >
            > > Jim
            > >
            > > --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, BOYD BORRILL <b.r.borrill@>
            > wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hi Evan;
            > > > I've been following this thread all day and would like to make
            > an offer. I have a book
            > > published by SAMS, entitled "The Apple II Circuit Description" by
            > Winston D. Gaylor.
            > > > It is abut 2 inches thick, spiral bound and contains a complete
            > set of circuit
            > > descriptions for every revision of the Apple II from the olriginal
            > through the Apple II +. It
            > > includes timing diagrams, waveforms, keyboard differences and
            > circuit/logic diagrams. It
            > > thorolughly covers circuit analysis and how to tell the differences
            > by the numbers of the
            > > various models.
            > > > I have sold two copies of this book on E-bay for up to $55.00. I
            > recently found this
            > > copy in a local thrift store and bought it. Considering the content
            > of this thread I would
            > > like to offer the following: I will give this book to MARCH as a
            > contribution to pay my initial
            > > financial offering (because I have no cash anymore). I would suggest
            > that MARCH make it
            > > available to members as needed, like a "lending Library" and
            > otherwise keep it displayed in
            > > the museum. It would save a lot of internet searching.
            > > > Given a p;ositive response from you, and a mailing address, I
            > could have it in your
            > > hands in about a week.
            > > > Ray
            > > >
            > > > Evan Koblentz <evan@> wrote:
            > > > I'd guess that someone on classiccmp must have it.
            > Perhaps someone like
            > > > Hans Franke...?
            > > >
            > > > Or how about you, Tom Owad?
            > > >
            > > > Or just send an email to Sellam (sellam@) .... He'll either
            > > > have it or know who does.
            > > >
            > > > -----Original Message-----
            > > > From: Bob Grieb [mailto:bobgrieb@]
            > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 1:15 PM
            > > > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
            > > > Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Apple II Troubleshooting Question
            > > >
            > > > If anyone has an Apple ][ manual, the schematic is included. So
            > far I have
            > > > not found a copy of it on the web.
            > > >
            > > > Bob A - Do you have an Apple II manual?
            > > >
            > > > Bob Grieb
            > > >
            > > > --- macmothership <macmothership@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > > Last week I finilly aquired an original Apple II. I have had a
            > II+ for
            > > > > some time, but just never found an origiinal II for the right
            > price.
            > > > > But this one has a problem that I'm hoping someone can help me with.
            > > > >
            > > > > . The computer turns on with a normal beep.
            > > > > . The monitor lights up, but with a set of maybe 4 pixel wide
            > bars a
            > > > > pixel or so two apart vertically up the screen. In the lower left
            > > > > there is a blinking "cursor", which is actually a block of
            > pixels the
            > > > > size of a character in the second bar, that blinks like a cursor.
            > > > > . The "cursor responds to keyboard input by moving to the right
            > just
            > > > > like it should, but no text.
            > > > > The reset button functions normally, with a beep and a "return"
            > of the
            > > > > cursor on screen.
            > > > > . "Control + G" rings the bell
            > > > > . Typing "Load + Return" cycles through about 10 lines and goes
            > back
            > > > > to the blinking "cursor"
            > > > >
            > > > > Over the weekend, I switched out every chip that is socketed
            > from the
            > > > > Apple II+ to the apple II one section or row at a time. I did RAM,
            > > > > ROMS, processor, everything. (that was a tedious job!) Each and
            > every
            > > > > time there was no change in the symptoms. Also, I tried the II+
            > power
            > > > > supply and keyboard. I checked the bottom of the board for anything
            > > > > strange, but didn't see anything that looks out of wack.
            > > > >
            > > > > It almost seems like a fault in the location that takes the
            > processor
            > > > > output and keyboard input and converts it or decodes it to ASCII
            > > > > characters for display on the video. If there is such a place, I'm
            > > > > just guessing, I'm not good at the component level.
            > > > >
            > > > > At this point, would you start to replace solid-state
            > components, like
            > > > > resistors, capacitors and transistors? I'm not sure there is
            > anything
            > > > > else left! Unless it is one of the couple of smaller chips (one
            > near
            > > > > the video out, for example) that are soldered on the II+, but
            > not on
            > > > > the II, and I couldn't switch.
            > > > >
            > > > > Any and all help would be greatly appreciated!
            > > > >
            > > > > Thanks,
            > > > > Jim
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > > __________________________________________________
            > > > Do You Yahoo!?
            > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
            > > >
            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Pioneer Purveyor of Personal Processing Power
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Bob Grieb
            Jim, If you go to www.1000bit.net, then to the manuals section, and select Apple, you can find a complete copy of the Apple ][ ref manual. Unfortunately, the
            Message 5 of 20 , Aug 31, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Jim,

              If you go to www.1000bit.net, then to the manuals
              section, and select Apple, you can find a complete
              copy of the Apple ][ ref manual. Unfortunately, the
              scanning job is not great so the schematics are
              pretty much unusable, but it also has a description of
              how the video section works.

              I downloaded something called
              the Apple II mini manual, and on page 60 it has a
              complete schem of just the video circuit. This should
              help you to see how things are set up. A5 is the location
              on the circuit board of the char gen EPROM, a 2513 type.

              With a 'scope and this schem, you should be able to
              see what's not working.

              Bob Grieb

              --- macmothership <macmothership@...> wrote:

              > I'm going to try Herb's suggestion to see if it reads a disk, but I
              > suspect it will. It seems to
              > function. I just got a complete new ROM set I am going to try as
              > well, although swapping
              > with the II+ didn't change the symptoms.
              > I've had a suggestion that the charactor ROM may be the problem. Is
              > that the charactor
              > generator that you mention? The large chip under the keyboard
              > location?
              >
              > I did swap this with the II+ when doing the chip swap with no change
              > in symptoms. The
              > chip in the II looks weird, though. It is brown, has a clear circular
              > window in the middle,
              > and is marked with a large lower case letter i. But as I said
              > swapping it didn't change
              > anything.
              >
              > I know the Apple II isn't a REV 0 (It has the extra pin behind the
              > video port) but other than
              > that, I don't know any other details. I am using the B&W (green,
              > actually) Apple tilting
              > monitor
              >
              > Thanks!
              > Jim
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "buseyl" <buseyl@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi Jim, I just read about your Apple troubles (I get the digest).
              > It's
              > > kind of late tonight but maybe I can help. I have an Apple ][ rev 0
              > > and an Apple ][+ rev RFI D. All revisions of the Apple and Apple
              > ][+
              > > are very similar but there are differences so you should be careful
              > > about swapping parts. For instance, the character generator in IIRC
              > > rev 7 Apples on up was changed to be pin compatible with a 2716
              > EPROM
              > > to allow for custom character sets. If you swap incompatible
              > character
              > > generators something could get cooked. Do you know what revs your
              > ][
              > > and ][+ motherboards are? Do you know firmware does your Apple has
              > > (autostart or old monitor, integer or Applesoft BASIC)?
              > >
              > > Good news. You get video, can move the cursor with the keyboard,
              > and
              > > get the machine to beep with ctrl-G so your Apple mostly works. I
              > > wonder. Are you using a color monitor with your ][? Is the garbage
              > > color (lores) or mono (text)? I'd be curious to see if hires is
              > > working. The Applevision demo on the DOS 3.3 System Master disk
              > would
              > > probably give you a good idea but that may be hard to type in
              > blind.
              > >
              > > There're a lot of knowledgeable people here. I think the prognosis
              > for
              > > your Apple is good.
              > >
              > > Liam
              > >
              > > --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "macmothership"
              > > <macmothership@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > I just want to say thanks to everyone who has taken the time to
              > > respond. It really means
              > > > alot to me, and when I eventually get this one working it will be
              > > quite a pleasure to display
              > > > it at upcoming MARCH events. It took me a long time to find an
              > Apple
              > > II and I had almost
              > > > given up hope, so I had to jump on this one, even though it had
              > > problems. Cosmetically it
              > > > is quite good. Thanks again for your help so far.
              > > >
              > > > Jim
              > > >
              > > > --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, BOYD BORRILL
              > <b.r.borrill@>
              > > wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Hi Evan;
              > > > > I've been following this thread all day and would like to
              > make
              > > an offer. I have a book
              > > > published by SAMS, entitled "The Apple II Circuit Description" by
              > > Winston D. Gaylor.
              > > > > It is abut 2 inches thick, spiral bound and contains a
              > complete
              > > set of circuit
              > > > descriptions for every revision of the Apple II from the
              > olriginal
              > > through the Apple II +. It
              > > > includes timing diagrams, waveforms, keyboard differences and
              > > circuit/logic diagrams. It
              > > > thorolughly covers circuit analysis and how to tell the
              > differences
              > > by the numbers of the
              > > > various models.
              > > > > I have sold two copies of this book on E-bay for up to
              > $55.00. I
              > > recently found this
              > > > copy in a local thrift store and bought it. Considering the
              > content
              > > of this thread I would
              > > > like to offer the following: I will give this book to MARCH as a
              > > contribution to pay my initial
              > > > financial offering (because I have no cash anymore). I would
              > suggest
              > > that MARCH make it
              > > > available to members as needed, like a "lending Library" and
              > > otherwise keep it displayed in
              > > > the museum. It would save a lot of internet searching.
              > > > > Given a p;ositive response from you, and a mailing address, I
              > > could have it in your
              > > > hands in about a week.
              > > > > Ray
              > > > >
              > > > > Evan Koblentz <evan@> wrote:
              > > > > I'd guess that someone on classiccmp must have it.
              > > Perhaps someone like
              > > > > Hans Franke...?
              > > > >
              > > > > Or how about you, Tom Owad?
              > > > >
              > > > > Or just send an email to Sellam (sellam@) .... He'll either
              > > > > have it or know who does.
              > > > >
              > > > > -----Original Message-----
              > > > > From: Bob Grieb [mailto:bobgrieb@]
              > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 1:15 PM
              > > > > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
              > > > > Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Apple II Troubleshooting
              > Question
              > > > >
              > > > > If anyone has an Apple ][ manual, the schematic is included. So
              > > far I have
              > > > > not found a copy of it on the web.
              > > > >
              > > > > Bob A - Do you have an Apple II manual?
              > > > >
              > > > > Bob Grieb
              > > > >
              > > > > --- macmothership <macmothership@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > > Last week I finilly aquired an original Apple II. I have had
              > a
              > > II+ for
              > > > > > some time, but just never found an origiinal II for the right
              > > price.
              > > > > > But this one has a problem that I'm hoping someone can help
              > me with.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > . The computer turns on with a normal beep.
              > > > > > . The monitor lights up, but with a set of maybe 4 pixel wide
              > > bars a
              > > > > > pixel or so two apart vertically up the screen. In the lower
              > left
              > > > > > there is a blinking "cursor", which is actually a block of
              > > pixels the
              > > > > > size of a character in the second bar, that blinks like a
              > cursor.
              > > > > > . The "cursor responds to keyboard input by moving to the
              > right
              > > just
              > > > > > like it should, but no text.
              > > > > > The reset button functions normally, with a beep and a
              > "return"
              > > of the
              > > > > > cursor on screen.
              > > > > > . "Control + G" rings the bell
              > > > > > . Typing "Load + Return" cycles through about 10 lines and
              > goes
              > > back
              > > > > > to the blinking "cursor"
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Over the weekend, I switched out every chip that is socketed
              > > from the
              > > > > > Apple II+ to the apple II one section or row at a time. I did
              > RAM,
              > > > > > ROMS, processor, everything. (that was a tedious job!) Each
              > and
              > > every
              > > > > > time there was no change in the symptoms. Also, I tried the
              > II+
              > > power
              > > > > > supply and keyboard. I checked the bottom of the board for
              > anything
              > > > > > strange, but didn't see anything that looks out of wack.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > It almost seems like a fault in the location that takes the
              > > processor
              > > > > > output and keyboard input and converts it or decodes it to
              > ASCII
              > > > > > characters for display on the video. If there is such a
              > place, I'm
              > > > > > just guessing, I'm not good at the component level.
              > > > > >
              >
              === message truncated ===


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            • macmothership
              Here is where we are. There is no change in the symptoms to this point. I have swapped every chip with an Apple II+ (except the two 555 s which are soldered on
              Message 6 of 20 , Sep 2 1:53 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                Here is where we are. There is no change in the symptoms to this point.

                I have swapped every chip with an Apple II+ (except the two 555's which are soldered on
                the II+) with the Apple II. No change.

                I have buzzed out every pin on every chip to the solder point under the board for
                continuity. Every single chip pin was ok. (THAT was tedious!)

                I have checked all resistors to the proper value and they all check out.

                It does not try to access the disk drive on booting, like the II+.

                That is about it right now, I'm not sure what to try next. As I think I said before, it had a
                Videx Keyboard and Video Enhancer card installed, which I removed. I called Videx (Still in
                business!) and an old timer dug up a manual and photocopied it for me. He put it in the
                mail, and I should get it this week. I can check that to see what mods may have been done
                to the board, but it really looks like there weren't any.

                Is anyone familiar with this Videx board that may know?

                Any help would be appreciated, as always.

                Jim

                --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Bob Grieb <bobgrieb@...> wrote:
                >
                > Jim,
                >
                > If you go to www.1000bit.net, then to the manuals
                > section, and select Apple, you can find a complete
                > copy of the Apple ][ ref manual. Unfortunately, the
                > scanning job is not great so the schematics are
                > pretty much unusable, but it also has a description of
                > how the video section works.
                >
                > I downloaded something called
                > the Apple II mini manual, and on page 60 it has a
                > complete schem of just the video circuit. This should
                > help you to see how things are set up. A5 is the location
                > on the circuit board of the char gen EPROM, a 2513 type.
                >
                > With a 'scope and this schem, you should be able to
                > see what's not working.
                >
                > Bob Grieb
                >
                > --- macmothership <macmothership@...> wrote:
                >
                > > I'm going to try Herb's suggestion to see if it reads a disk, but I
                > > suspect it will. It seems to
                > > function. I just got a complete new ROM set I am going to try as
                > > well, although swapping
                > > with the II+ didn't change the symptoms.
                > > I've had a suggestion that the charactor ROM may be the problem. Is
                > > that the charactor
                > > generator that you mention? The large chip under the keyboard
                > > location?
                > >
                > > I did swap this with the II+ when doing the chip swap with no change
                > > in symptoms. The
                > > chip in the II looks weird, though. It is brown, has a clear circular
                > > window in the middle,
                > > and is marked with a large lower case letter i. But as I said
                > > swapping it didn't change
                > > anything.
                > >
                > > I know the Apple II isn't a REV 0 (It has the extra pin behind the
                > > video port) but other than
                > > that, I don't know any other details. I am using the B&W (green,
                > > actually) Apple tilting
                > > monitor
                > >
                > > Thanks!
                > > Jim
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "buseyl" <buseyl@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hi Jim, I just read about your Apple troubles (I get the digest).
                > > It's
                > > > kind of late tonight but maybe I can help. I have an Apple ][ rev 0
                > > > and an Apple ][+ rev RFI D. All revisions of the Apple and Apple
                > > ][+
                > > > are very similar but there are differences so you should be careful
                > > > about swapping parts. For instance, the character generator in IIRC
                > > > rev 7 Apples on up was changed to be pin compatible with a 2716
                > > EPROM
                > > > to allow for custom character sets. If you swap incompatible
                > > character
                > > > generators something could get cooked. Do you know what revs your
                > > ][
                > > > and ][+ motherboards are? Do you know firmware does your Apple has
                > > > (autostart or old monitor, integer or Applesoft BASIC)?
                > > >
                > > > Good news. You get video, can move the cursor with the keyboard,
                > > and
                > > > get the machine to beep with ctrl-G so your Apple mostly works. I
                > > > wonder. Are you using a color monitor with your ][? Is the garbage
                > > > color (lores) or mono (text)? I'd be curious to see if hires is
                > > > working. The Applevision demo on the DOS 3.3 System Master disk
                > > would
                > > > probably give you a good idea but that may be hard to type in
                > > blind.
                > > >
                > > > There're a lot of knowledgeable people here. I think the prognosis
                > > for
                > > > your Apple is good.
                > > >
                > > > Liam
                > > >
                > > > --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "macmothership"
                > > > <macmothership@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > I just want to say thanks to everyone who has taken the time to
                > > > respond. It really means
                > > > > alot to me, and when I eventually get this one working it will be
                > > > quite a pleasure to display
                > > > > it at upcoming MARCH events. It took me a long time to find an
                > > Apple
                > > > II and I had almost
                > > > > given up hope, so I had to jump on this one, even though it had
                > > > problems. Cosmetically it
                > > > > is quite good. Thanks again for your help so far.
                > > > >
                > > > > Jim
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, BOYD BORRILL
                > > <b.r.borrill@>
                > > > wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Hi Evan;
                > > > > > I've been following this thread all day and would like to
                > > make
                > > > an offer. I have a book
                > > > > published by SAMS, entitled "The Apple II Circuit Description" by
                > > > Winston D. Gaylor.
                > > > > > It is abut 2 inches thick, spiral bound and contains a
                > > complete
                > > > set of circuit
                > > > > descriptions for every revision of the Apple II from the
                > > olriginal
                > > > through the Apple II +. It
                > > > > includes timing diagrams, waveforms, keyboard differences and
                > > > circuit/logic diagrams. It
                > > > > thorolughly covers circuit analysis and how to tell the
                > > differences
                > > > by the numbers of the
                > > > > various models.
                > > > > > I have sold two copies of this book on E-bay for up to
                > > $55.00. I
                > > > recently found this
                > > > > copy in a local thrift store and bought it. Considering the
                > > content
                > > > of this thread I would
                > > > > like to offer the following: I will give this book to MARCH as a
                > > > contribution to pay my initial
                > > > > financial offering (because I have no cash anymore). I would
                > > suggest
                > > > that MARCH make it
                > > > > available to members as needed, like a "lending Library" and
                > > > otherwise keep it displayed in
                > > > > the museum. It would save a lot of internet searching.
                > > > > > Given a p;ositive response from you, and a mailing address, I
                > > > could have it in your
                > > > > hands in about a week.
                > > > > > Ray
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Evan Koblentz <evan@> wrote:
                > > > > > I'd guess that someone on classiccmp must have it.
                > > > Perhaps someone like
                > > > > > Hans Franke...?
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Or how about you, Tom Owad?
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Or just send an email to Sellam (sellam@) .... He'll either
                > > > > > have it or know who does.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > -----Original Message-----
                > > > > > From: Bob Grieb [mailto:bobgrieb@]
                > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 1:15 PM
                > > > > > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                > > > > > Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Apple II Troubleshooting
                > > Question
                > > > > >
                > > > > > If anyone has an Apple ][ manual, the schematic is included. So
                > > > far I have
                > > > > > not found a copy of it on the web.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Bob A - Do you have an Apple II manual?
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Bob Grieb
                > > > > >
                > > > > > --- macmothership <macmothership@> wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > > Last week I finilly aquired an original Apple II. I have had
                > > a
                > > > II+ for
                > > > > > > some time, but just never found an origiinal II for the right
                > > > price.
                > > > > > > But this one has a problem that I'm hoping someone can help
                > > me with.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > . The computer turns on with a normal beep.
                > > > > > > . The monitor lights up, but with a set of maybe 4 pixel wide
                > > > bars a
                > > > > > > pixel or so two apart vertically up the screen. In the lower
                > > left
                > > > > > > there is a blinking "cursor", which is actually a block of
                > > > pixels the
                > > > > > > size of a character in the second bar, that blinks like a
                > > cursor.
                > > > > > > . The "cursor responds to keyboard input by moving to the
                > > right
                > > > just
                > > > > > > like it should, but no text.
                > > > > > > The reset button functions normally, with a beep and a
                > > "return"
                > > > of the
                > > > > > > cursor on screen.
                > > > > > > . "Control + G" rings the bell
                > > > > > > . Typing "Load + Return" cycles through about 10 lines and
                > > goes
                > > > back
                > > > > > > to the blinking "cursor"
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Over the weekend, I switched out every chip that is socketed
                > > > from the
                > > > > > > Apple II+ to the apple II one section or row at a time. I did
                > > RAM,
                > > > > > > ROMS, processor, everything. (that was a tedious job!) Each
                > > and
                > > > every
                > > > > > > time there was no change in the symptoms. Also, I tried the
                > > II+
                > > > power
                > > > > > > supply and keyboard. I checked the bottom of the board for
                > > anything
                > > > > > > strange, but didn't see anything that looks out of wack.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > It almost seems like a fault in the location that takes the
                > > > processor
                > > > > > > output and keyboard input and converts it or decodes it to
                > > ASCII
                > > > > > > characters for display on the video. If there is such a
                > > place, I'm
                > > > > > > just guessing, I'm not good at the component level.
                > > > > > >
                > >
                > === message truncated ===
                >
                >
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              • B. Degnan
                Installed in my Apple ][+ I have a Videx expansion card and Videx controller in an IC slot. I think 1980 is printed on the card. To a connector on the
                Message 7 of 20 , Sep 2 2:29 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Installed in my Apple ][+ I have a Videx expansion card and Videx
                  controller in an IC slot.

                  I think "1980" is printed on the card. To a connector on the expansion
                  card there is a cable connected on the other end to a small Videx
                  "expansion controller" board that had been fit into an open IC space near
                  the game I/O circuitry.

                  The computer itself has a RAM problem so I have not actually used it enough
                  to figure out exactly what you get with the Videx card and controller. I
                  assume it's for better graphics or gaming.

                  As part of testing I removed the Videx cards and it made no difference to
                  improve the RAM situation. It's still on the to-be-fixed table. I have
                  to do what you did, check each chip, etc. I am in the middle of some other
                  projects so I won't be able to get to this until next week.

                  FYI - Here is what the screen looks like:

                  ???????????
                  @@@@@@
                  ???????????
                  @@@@@@
                  etc.

                  Bill D


                  >That is about it right now, I'm not sure what to try next. As I think I
                  >said before, it had a
                  >Videx Keyboard and Video Enhancer card installed, which I removed. I
                  >called Videx (Still in
                  >business!) and an old timer dug up a manual and photocopied it for me. He
                  >put it in the
                  >mail, and I should get it this week. I can check that to see what mods may
                  >have been done
                  >to the board, but it really looks like there weren't any.
                  >
                  >Is anyone familiar with this Videx board that may know?
                • macmothership
                  Bill, Sounds like you may have the Enhancer II. Mine was just the single board that piggybacked on the mainboard under the keyboard. Jim
                  Message 8 of 20 , Sep 2 4:53 PM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Bill,
                    Sounds like you may have the Enhancer II. Mine was just the single board that piggybacked
                    on the mainboard under the keyboard.
                    Jim

                    --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "B. Degnan" <billdeg@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Installed in my Apple ][+ I have a Videx expansion card and Videx
                    > controller in an IC slot.
                    >
                    > I think "1980" is printed on the card. To a connector on the expansion
                    > card there is a cable connected on the other end to a small Videx
                    > "expansion controller" board that had been fit into an open IC space near
                    > the game I/O circuitry.
                    >
                    > The computer itself has a RAM problem so I have not actually used it enough
                    > to figure out exactly what you get with the Videx card and controller. I
                    > assume it's for better graphics or gaming.
                    >
                    > As part of testing I removed the Videx cards and it made no difference to
                    > improve the RAM situation. It's still on the to-be-fixed table. I have
                    > to do what you did, check each chip, etc. I am in the middle of some other
                    > projects so I won't be able to get to this until next week.
                    >
                    > FYI - Here is what the screen looks like:
                    >
                    > ???????????
                    > @@@@@@
                    > ???????????
                    > @@@@@@
                    > etc.
                    >
                    > Bill D
                    >
                    >
                    > >That is about it right now, I'm not sure what to try next. As I think I
                    > >said before, it had a
                    > >Videx Keyboard and Video Enhancer card installed, which I removed. I
                    > >called Videx (Still in
                    > >business!) and an old timer dug up a manual and photocopied it for me. He
                    > >put it in the
                    > >mail, and I should get it this week. I can check that to see what mods may
                    > >have been done
                    > >to the board, but it really looks like there weren't any.
                    > >
                    > >Is anyone familiar with this Videx board that may know?
                    >
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