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Re: [midatlanticretro] OT: editing posts

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  • Jim Scheef
    Brian, You re one of the exceptions to the reply at the top convention. There were several bugs in CompuServe s billing as multi-tasking environments became
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 8, 2006

      You're one of the exceptions to the 'reply at the top' convention.

      There were several bugs in CompuServe's billing as multi-tasking environments
      became popular, creating the situation you describe. Their initial Windows
      programs had limited features for working offline. They wanted users to
      switch to "New CompuServe" (CIS2? I forget what they called it) to get people
      onto the AOL dialup network which for some reason was incompatible with what
      became known as CompuServe Classic. All the sysop tools remained on Classic
      so I never tried the "AOL-ish" user interface which I believe had different
      billing bugs from those on the Classic side.

      The various scripting programs like TapCIS did a great job of minimizing
      connect time. Most people who switched to TapCIS found that their bill
      dropped so much that they could "afford" to visit and follow more fora
      (forums). Of course all this became moot when AOL and CIS followed the
      industry to the "all you can eat" model we have today.

      BYW, our Congresspeople are about to undo this and more on the Internet when
      they "deregulate" the telecom companies so they can charge you more for
      packets they decide are not in their best interests.


      --- Bryan Pope <bryan.pope@...> wrote:

      > Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
      > > Jim Scheef wrote:
      > >
      > >> connect time was money? At one time CIS cost about $23/hour (~38¢ per
      > >> minute!) at 2400bps and those were 1988 dollars. What the service
      > >>
      > >
      > > I have fond memories of my $150/month Compuserve habit. 8-)
      > >
      > > Peace... Sridhar
      > >
      > >
      > arrgh... I don't!! :( But near the end of my time there (and I don't
      > think it was ever fixed) a way found to get *free* CServe service. All
      > you had to do was have one of your CServe windows open to one of their
      > "free" rooms and it would cancel out your time connected to a regular
      > room.*
      > Cheers,
      > Bryan
      > * Of course I *never* used that technique... I only heard about it in
      > hushed whispers...
    • Herb Johnson
      OK, just for fun I ll reply by top-posting and I won t edit out the messages before. I m replying to Jim s post below, so my responses are to Jim. He thinks my
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 10, 2006
        OK, just for fun I'll reply by top-posting and I won't edit out the
        messages before. I'm replying to Jim's post below, so my responses are
        to Jim. He thinks my problem is about digests; it's really about
        posting styles. But my core issue may be about the use of forums.
        CLearly it's just me, no one else has complained, so I won't persue
        this further except to reply here.

        First, Jim, I don't reply by editing a message out of the daily
        digest. I reply by logging into Yahoo! online and pulling out the
        individual message, and then open a window there. I read the digest to
        see if there are any messages I need to reply to each day. If I was a
        more active member, I'd need to get individual messages.

        I concur with you that editing a message from the daily digest for
        reply would be painful. Going to the Yahoo! site avoids that, and it's
        not much different from editing a reply via my own email client. In
        fact, I'm writing THIS reply using a text editor and I'll simply cut
        and paste it into Yahoo!'s edit window. ("Simple" was in fact not the
        case, my cut-n-paste required removing all the linefeeds! ;( )

        You say "6 of 130 recieve the digest", but you did not say how many of
        the 130 recieve no emails at all as you suggested it was signifigant.
        Am I 6 of 130, or 6 of maybe 30, in taking the digest?

        You say "the solution to my problem is not to use the daily digest".
        Nope, that's not the problem. The "problem" as I put it, was that
        people top-post new messages on old, they get two and three deep. What
        "digests" add to that problem is that I get to see all the messages at
        once, so I see message A; followed by message B+A; followed by message
        C+B+A. Either way, digest or individually, it's a bunch of messages
        already read.

        And that's if "everyone top posts"; most do but not all. So I have to
        check to make sure it's not "B+A+C". But all that's apparently just my
        "problem". Sorry to make a fuss.

        As for my own question about "being too 20th century" about this, it
        appears that the bulk of the thread is now about how some email USED
        to be, namely proprietary email services like AOL and Compuserve.
        Funny, I find such services to be restrictive and too "locked in";
        although some services may have had a better user interface, as you
        suggest for COmpupserve. And some people like the advantages of
        proprietary email systems as places where people of like interests gather.

        I certainly enjoy like-interests email groups. But I don't enjoy the
        fact that each one has its own software support, methods, user
        interface. And each one requires membership and registration. And some
        of them are opportunities for spammers. Many of them are so special
        purpose that I can only use them for one interest, some are just
        site-specific. I appreciate from that perspective, comments about the
        old days when "one click" seemed to do all the work to download and
        sort messages from several groups under one provider.

        My own needs, and again this is just my priorities, are that I need a
        stable and reliable email service over a period of YEARS. I pay for
        such a service, and it works with both Usenet and (what used to be)
        standard Internet email services. But times change, and now in 2006
        I'm obliged to join any number of these proprietary services that can
        come and go with only notice given.

        Jim suggests I set up my email client software and possibly my email
        provider's features to segregate such email. That's apparently how
        I'll have to manage all these disparate email groups, if I plan to
        participate in any of their corresponding activities - such as MARCH
        and it's Yahoo!-based mail service. My reluctance to do that seems to
        be what I meant by "being 20th century".

        The bottom line is that I'm odd man out on this subject, so I'll say
        no more.

        Herb Johnson

        Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
        <a href="http://retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/"> web site</a>
        <a href="http://retrotechnology.net/herbs_stuff/"> domain mirror</a>
        my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
        if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
        "Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
        S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"

        --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Jim Scheef <jscheef@...> wrote:
        > Herb,
        > If you are using the daily digest, you have my gratitude for editing
        out the superflous content and changing the subject line to match the
        thread. Way to go. However, using the daily digest is your choice. I
        just perused the membership list and was surprised by the number of
        people receiving no emails. About six of 130 receive the digest.
        Personally I stay away from the Yahoo Groups web site as much as
        possible - going there only to do group business (I was a wizop on
        CompuServe for ten years and my moderating habits die hard) but that's
        the only reason I can see to go there. (Ok, the pictures can be fun.)
        Thankfully most people reply at the top of each message so I see all
        the earlier stuff only when I scroll down to check a point from an
        earlier post. When everyone replies at the top, each message is a
        synopsis of the thread even if someone changed the subject line.
        > So, my solution to your 'problem' is to not use the daily digest and
        to receive individual emails. Set up a filter in your email client to
        move all incoming messages from the group to a special folder. That
        way they do not clutter your inbox and are nicely organized for
        sorting on date , subject or sender. As I read thru the messages I
        delete most unless there is content to which I might want to refer
        later, like a URL. Plus I can search these messages using Yahoo's
        search. I find Yahoo email to be very convenient and with 2G of online
        storage, I can keep all the messages I want. After a couple years of
        saving lots of junk, I'm still using only 15% of the 2G.
        > As to being too 20th century, I miss using Tapcis to download
        messages from the 15-20 forums I used to follow on Compuserve. One key
        stroke was all it took to connect to the service, collect all the
        waiting messages and download the new message headers from all of my
        favorite fora and log off again. That way you could review things off
        line. Remember when connect time was money? At one time CIS cost about
        $23/hour (~38¢ per minute!) at 2400bps and those were 1988 dollars.
        What the service offered was a great online community interfaced thru
        fabulous forum software with really good message threading. The
        threading was so good that the only quoting needed was a few words for
        emphasis. All of the various third-party tools, like Tapcis, used the
        threading to manage and display messages. Even when they moved to a
        web-based user interface they still had the best threading.
        Unfortuntely the by the time AOL bought CIS, the CIS forum software
        was way better than what AOL had and
        > that was not a politically tenable position. So AOL management did
        their best to kill off Compuserve to eliminate any possibility it
        might threaten the core of AOL. Ah, the good old days...
        > Jim
        > ----- Original Message ----
        > From: Herb Johnson <hjohnson@...>
        > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Thursday, July 6, 2006 12:11:15 PM
        > Subject: [midatlanticretro] OT: editing posts
        > I'm getting confused by posts in reply
        which contain too much prior
        > posting. I have comments and my preferences below; I'd welcome any
        > comments that offer other preferences or explanations.
        > Case in point is the discussion about the August trip to Boston.
        > Posted messages are two, three messages "deep" with both recent and
        > earlier information. Messages in reply add to the depth. So in my
        > daily digest of several messages, I see the same post two, three, four
        > times in succession.
        > Whether I'm using the digest, or using the Yahoo! Groups access Web
        > page, I have this little window of 10, 20 lines of text. I have to
        > roll around these messages to look for clues by date stamp or >> marks
        > to sort out what is new, what I might reply to.
        > My posting policy is to EDIT. Zero in on what I'm replying to and who
        > said it, top my reply with that, and respond accordingly. At the very
        > least, I remove replies to replies. Anyone who needs more context can
        > refer to their message archives, or go to the Yahoo! Groups page
        > archives. Time I take to edit, I figure, saves time for my friends in
        > reading and sorting.
        > I appreciate it's tough to use email for planning and extended
        > discussion. For long term information, we have on Yahoo! a "database"
        > section that could be used quickly, maybe that "calendar" section too.
        > Of course our Web site can hold firmer plans if they are for the
        > public, unless a "members only" section is added - many of the events
        > in dicussion are members only. But it's good to have the "public" get
        > a clue as to our activites on the Web site, it's our primary
        > promotional tool.
        > Some of that is policy stuff, it's up to the MARCH leadership. And all
        > of this is just part of the growing process, I have no complaints
        > overall. But as traffic and activity increases, it's harder to follow
        > the discussion quickly when I have to wade through posts
        > three-messages- deep. I think it's reasonable to consider if copying
        > all those messages is necessary. But maybe that's just me, being too
        > 20th century.
        > Herb Johnson
        > Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey USA
        > <a href="http://retrotechnol ogy.com/herbs_ stuff/"> web site</a>
        > <a href="http://retrotechnol ogy.net/herbs_ stuff/"> domain mirror</a>
        > my email address: hjohnson AAT retrotechnology DOTT com
        > if no reply, try in a few days: herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net
        > "Herb's Stuff": old Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives
        > S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, docs, by "Dr. S-100"
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