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Bye, bye, Yahoo

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  • Evan Koblentz
    MARCHins, It s time for us to ditch Yahoo. Your friendly MARCH board is working on it. Last time we made this threat ;) several people offered to host a list
    Message 1 of 21 , Sep 11, 2013
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      MARCHins,

      It's time for us to ditch Yahoo. Your friendly MARCH board is working on it.

      Last time we made this threat ;) several people offered to host a list for us -- which we appreciate -- but we're going to stick with DegnanCo. because I hear the owner is a nice guy...
    • billdeg
      I did not need to do any of the things you all said you have to do. I have had the same account for years. I have 0 problems. I have the full new interface and
      Message 2 of 21 , Sep 11, 2013
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        I did not need to do any of the things you all said you have to do.  I have had the same account for years.  I have 0 problems.  I have the full new interface and can use all of the controls just fine.  I am concerned that some of you may be missing something.  I just declined to tie my facebook account to yahoo, and proceeded to use the new screens. 


        Face it that's the price for using FREE services.  Don't like it?  By a server and host your own web services.  Do all of the security and buy the firewalls, etc.  Running a modern ISP with modern services is just about impossible these days without a lot of money and time.  The days of the independent ISP are long gone.  Wish things were different.


        As far as this board goes, I use the latest Firefox using Win Vista, 7, and 8.  I use Fedora, Debian, PiDora (on my Raspberry Pi), etc.  None of these seem to be a problem.  I use a iPAD and Android phone.  Sorry to rant here, but we ARE computer people here and can figure out puzzles like yahoo if we can build a vintage computer from a bare board, right?  The price for moving is not free.



        --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, <midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

        MARCHins,

        It's time for us to ditch Yahoo. Your friendly MARCH board is working on it.

        Last time we made this threat ;) several people offered to host a list for us -- which we appreciate -- but we're going to stick with DegnanCo. because I hear the owner is a nice guy...
      • David Riley
        ... I just use it as mail and it just works. No fuss, no muss. The only time I d need to use the web interface is to look at the archives, as others have said.
        Message 3 of 21 , Sep 11, 2013
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          On Sep 11, 2013, at 8:42, <billdeg@...> wrote:

           

          I did not need to do any of the things you all said you have to do.  I have had the same account for years.  I have 0 problems.  I have the full new interface and can use all of the controls just fine.  I am concerned that some of you may be missing something.  I just declined to tie my facebook account to yahoo, and proceeded to use the new screens.

          I just use it as mail and it just works. No fuss, no muss. The only time I'd need to use the web interface is to look at the archives, as others have said.

          Since I barely ever use the web interface (and definitely haven't since the changeover; I don't even know if I have the new interface), can someone elaborate for me what the problems are aside from our newfound interest in basket weaving?

          I'm inclined to agree with Bill on this one, since I've done low-level web hosting for years. The one time I hosted a forum, it was a DISASTER; porn spammers invaded it within a week despite some pretty decent security measures. If you're going to insist on switching from Yahoo, PLEASE make sure it's to a format that allows for access as a mailing list.


          - Dave
        • Evan Koblentz
          ... I don t have the new interface. But my ability to admin the group via mobile is broken -- and I work via mobile a lot, more than most people. ... I know,
          Message 4 of 21 , Sep 11, 2013
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            >> I have the full new interface and can use all of the controls just fine.

            I don't have the new interface. But my ability to admin the group via mobile is broken -- and I work via mobile a lot, more than most people.

            >> The only time I'd need to use the web interface is to look at the archives, as others have said.

            I know, but, I spend a lot of time in the web interface for admin purposes.

            >> porn spammers invaded it within a week

            The * only * thing I like about Yahoo is they let us configure the group so that new members are automatically in moderated mode until an admin (me, Bill) manually change the newb to standard-post rules. That way, spam is impossible. Everyone must pass a Turing test.

            >> If you're going to insist on switching from Yahoo, PLEASE make sure it's to a format that allows for access as a mailing list.

            Rest easy, we 100% agree. We're not going to a web forum.
          • Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-
            ... That s ALL I use. I signed on via email just like have have in the past with dozens of mailing list. However, I m concerned that Yahoo, while lusting to
            Message 5 of 21 , Sep 11, 2013
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              David Riley <fraveydank@...> writes:

              >I just use it as mail and it just works. No fuss, no muss. The only time I'=
              >d need to use the web interface is to look at the archives, as others have =
              >said.

              That's ALL I use. I signed on via email just like have have in the past with
              dozens of mailing list. However, I'm concerned that Yahoo, while lusting to
              accrue more saleable data, could soon decide to cut off the mailing list only
              subscribers.



              >I'm inclined to agree with Bill on this one, since I've done low-level web =
              >hosting for years. The one time I hosted a forum, it was a DISASTER; porn s=
              >pammers invaded it within a week despite some pretty decent security measur=
              >es. If you're going to insist on switching from Yahoo, PLEASE make sure it'=
              >s to a format that allows for access as a mailing list.

              I run the progressive rock internet radio station, Aural Moon. Its web site
              has a very active forum and there are very few forum SPAMmers. That's due to
              me incorporating some specialized PHP scripting that exploits StopForumSpam's
              database as well as providing a cooling down period for a new user before he
              or she can post in the forum. The latter is based on an observation that the
              typical forum SPAMmer is a signup-and-SPAM and never to be seen again user.

              --
              VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG

              Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
            • David Riley
              ... That s certainly not an unreasonable fear. They ve been floundering for years, and their new CEO has a very good reputation for making companies
              Message 6 of 21 , Sep 11, 2013
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                On Sep 11, 2013, at 9:22 AM, "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <VAXman@...> wrote:

                > David Riley <fraveydank@...> writes:
                >
                > >I just use it as mail and it just works. No fuss, no muss. The only time I'=
                > >d need to use the web interface is to look at the archives, as others have =
                > >said.
                >
                > That's ALL I use. I signed on via email just like have have in the past with
                > dozens of mailing list. However, I'm concerned that Yahoo, while lusting to
                > accrue more saleable data, could soon decide to cut off the mailing list only
                > subscribers.

                That's certainly not an unreasonable fear. They've been floundering
                for years, and their new CEO has a very good reputation for making
                companies successful and profitable (which at the moment is probably
                directly tied to the amount of information they can sell to advertisers
                and others).

                > I run the progressive rock internet radio station, Aural Moon. Its web site
                > has a very active forum and there are very few forum SPAMmers. That's due to
                > me incorporating some specialized PHP scripting that exploits StopForumSpam's
                > database as well as providing a cooling down period for a new user before he
                > or she can post in the forum. The latter is based on an observation that the
                > typical forum SPAMmer is a signup-and-SPAM and never to be seen again user.

                This was a number of years ago, when captchas were just starting to be
                broken by spammers. Some simple moderation probably would have worked
                wonders (thank you, Evan, for performing that function here), but the
                site's owner didn't want to spend the time doing that or delegate it
                to anyone else. She was just furious that hardcore porn was showing
                up in her horse rehabilitation site's auxiliary forum and wanted me to
                "do something about it", so I shut down the forum. We parted ways not
                long after.

                An automatic cooldown period would probably do the trick as well; it's
                essentially analogous to email greylisting, which has worked wonders on
                my mail server.


                - Dave
              • David Riley
                ... Well, that s a fair point. If that s broken, that s a big problem. ... I do appreciate that. How many spam attempts do you tend to see, just out of
                Message 7 of 21 , Sep 11, 2013
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                  On Sep 11, 2013, at 9:06 AM, "Evan Koblentz" <evan@...> wrote:

                  > >> The only time I'd need to use the web interface is to look at the archives, as others have said.
                  >
                  > I know, but, I spend a lot of time in the web interface for admin purposes.

                  Well, that's a fair point. If that's broken, that's a big problem.

                  > >> porn spammers invaded it within a week
                  >
                  > The * only * thing I like about Yahoo is they let us configure the group so that new members are automatically in moderated mode until an admin (me, Bill) manually change the newb to standard-post rules. That way, spam is impossible. Everyone must pass a Turing test.

                  I do appreciate that. How many spam attempts do you tend to see, just
                  out of curiosity?


                  - Dave
                • Dave McGuire
                  ... Seconded, loudly. Web fora are for people with too much time on their hands. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
                  Message 8 of 21 , Sep 11, 2013
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                    On 09/11/2013 08:50 AM, David Riley wrote:
                    > I'm inclined to agree with Bill on this one, since I've done low-level web
                    > hosting for years. The one time I h osted a forum, it was a DISASTER; porn
                    > spammers invaded it within a week despite some pretty decent security
                    > measures. If you're going to insist on switching from Yahoo, PLEASE make sure
                    > it's to a format that allows for access as a mailing list.

                    Seconded, loudly. Web fora are for people with too much time on their hands.

                    -Dave

                    --
                    Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                    New Kensington, PA
                  • Cory Smelosky
                    ... IÆm someone with too much time on my hands and even /I/ dislike web fora.
                    Message 9 of 21 , Sep 11, 2013
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                      On 11 Sep 2013, at 13:57, Dave McGuire <Mcguire@...> wrote:

                      >
                      > On 09/11/2013 08:50 AM, David Riley wrote:
                      >> I'm inclined to agree with Bill on this one, since I've done low-level web
                      >> hosting for years. The one time I h osted a forum, it was a DISASTER; porn
                      >> spammers invaded it within a week despite some pretty decent security
                      >> measures. If you're going to insist on switching from Yahoo, PLEASE make sure
                      >> it's to a format that allows for access as a mailing list.
                      >
                      > Seconded, loudly. Web fora are for people with too much time on their hands.

                      I’m someone with too much time on my hands and even /I/ dislike web fora.

                      >
                      > -Dave
                      >
                      > --
                      > Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                      > New Kensington, PA
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Dave McGuire
                      ... ROFL!! -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
                      Message 10 of 21 , Sep 11, 2013
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                        On 09/11/2013 02:23 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
                        >>> I'm inclined to agree with Bill on this one, since I've done low-level web
                        >>> hosting for years. The one time I h osted a forum, it was a DISASTER; porn
                        >>> spammers invaded it within a week despite some pretty decent security
                        >>> measures. If you're going to insist on switching from Yahoo, PLEASE make sure
                        >>> it's to a format that allows for access as a mailing list.
                        >>
                        >> Seconded, loudly. Web fora are for people with too much time on their hands.
                        >
                        > I’m someone with too much time on my hands and even /I/ dislike web fora.

                        ROFL!!

                        --
                        Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                        New Kensington, PA
                      • Mike Loewen
                        ... Thirded, enthusiastically. Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                        Message 11 of 21 , Sep 11, 2013
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                          On Wed, 11 Sep 2013, Dave McGuire wrote:

                          > On 09/11/2013 08:50 AM, David Riley wrote:
                          >> I'm inclined to agree with Bill on this one, since I've done low-level web
                          >> hosting for years. The one time I h osted a forum, it was a DISASTER; porn
                          >> spammers invaded it within a week despite some pretty decent security
                          >> measures. If you're going to insist on switching from Yahoo, PLEASE make sure
                          >> it's to a format that allows for access as a mailing list.
                          >
                          > Seconded, loudly. Web fora are for people with too much time on their hands.
                          >
                          > -Dave

                          Thirded, enthusiastically.


                          Mike Loewen mloewen@...
                          Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                        • shlafferty
                          Since I use both the email digests and the web forum, I am somewhat dismayed at statements that the web forum is of little use to members. I find the forum
                          Message 12 of 21 , Sep 11, 2013
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                            Since I use both the email digests and the web forum, I am somewhat dismayed at statements that the web forum is of little use to members. I find the forum format useful for quickly reviewing the tree of a thread having lots of responses. It's also needed by digest subscribers for checking the latest postings, when one is contemplating a reply. I imagine that those who denigrate the forum format, subscribe to the mode having individual emails for each posting. That would cause too much inbox clutter and distraction for me but to each his own.


                            As far as Yahoo's gratuitous, clumsy new forum format and the unannounced, random, inconsiderate way that they dumped it on us, all I can say is that it only confirms my suspicions that the company is in decline. Their forum software has been substandard for years compared to popular web forums (which are nothing fancy). The fact that they have taken a giant leap backward with this change is simply unacceptable.


                            Having an account on a well-managed, professionally maintained web server these days is very inexpensive and easy to setup, so there seems to be little reason to stick with this derelict provider (other than their totally gorgeous CEO :)  The spam threat is a canard. Decent software and moderation measures which have already been mentioned easily eliminate that.


                            Steve Lafferty

                            Tronola.com


                          • Wesley Furr
                            What I like about Yahoo is that it gives people options...for those that actually want to read messages via the web, they can...and the rest of us can get them
                            Message 13 of 21 , Sep 11, 2013
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                              What I like about Yahoo is that it gives people options...for those that
                              actually want to read messages via the web, they can...and the rest of us
                              can get them by email.

                              The biggest problem I have with web forums is that I never can remember to
                              go check them out. I enjoy visiting the forums at www.vintage-computer.com,
                              but they are difficult to keep up with. First I have to remember to visit,
                              then I have to log in to attempt to track what I've seen and what I
                              haven't...I say "attempt", because if my session goes idle, then it sets
                              *all* the read flags so I have no idea where I left off in the various
                              sub-forums. I guess if I kept up with it every day, it wouldn't be a big
                              deal...

                              That said...I want to know your secret to having too much time on your
                              hands. :-)

                              Wesley


                              -----Original Message-----


                              I'm someone with too much time on my hands and even /I/ dislike web fora.
                            • hornbetw
                              For what it s worth, I only use the web interface. I don t want the emails cluttering my Yahoo inbox or my real inbox. I found it much easier to follow the
                              Message 14 of 21 , Sep 11, 2013
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                                For what it's worth,

                                I only use the web interface.  I don't want the emails cluttering my Yahoo inbox or my "real" inbox.  I found it much easier to follow the threads on the web interface (until Yahoo screwed it up!)   The current software obviously was never tested before it was thrown over the wall!


                                Tom H




                                --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, <steve@...> wrote:

                                Since I use both the email digests and the web forum, I am somewhat dismayed at statements that the web forum is of little use to members. I find the forum format useful for quickly reviewing the tree of a thread having lots of responses. It's also needed by digest subscribers for checking the latest postings, when one is contemplating a reply. I imagine that those who denigrate the forum format, subscribe to the mode having individual emails for each posting. That would cause too much inbox clutter and distraction for me but to each his own.


                                As far as Yahoo's gratuitous, clumsy new forum format and the unannounced, random, inconsiderate way that they dumped it on us, all I can say is that it only confirms my suspicions that the company is in decline. Their forum software has been substandard for years compared to popular web forums (which are nothing fancy). The fact that they have taken a giant leap backward with this change is simply unacceptable.


                                Having an account on a well-managed, professionally maintained web server these days is very inexpensive and easy to setup, so there seems to be little reason to stick with this derelict provider (other than their totally gorgeous CEO :)  The spam threat is a canard. Decent software and moderation measures which have already been mentioned easily eliminate that.


                                Steve Lafferty

                                Tronola.com


                              • Dave McGuire
                                ... From traffic on other lists, I thought everyone did now. ... Do you take a lot of trains/buses or something? -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington,
                                Message 15 of 21 , Sep 12, 2013
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                                  On 09/11/2013 09:06 AM, Evan Koblentz wrote:
                                  >>> I have the full new interface and can use all of the controls
                                  >>> just fine.
                                  >
                                  > I don't have the new interface.

                                  From traffic on other lists, I thought everyone did now.

                                  > But my ability to admin the group via
                                  > mobile is broken -- and I work via mobile a lot, more than most
                                  > people.

                                  Do you take a lot of trains/buses or something?

                                  -Dave

                                  --
                                  Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                                  New Kensington, PA
                                • Evan Koblentz
                                  ... Yes. I m also generally away from my home office a lot, and I need to be able to perform admin duties anywhere.
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Sep 12, 2013
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                                    >>> But my ability to admin the group via mobile is broken -- and I work via mobile a lot, more than most people.

                                    >> Do you take a lot of trains/buses or something

                                    Yes.

                                    I'm also generally away from my home office a lot, and I need to be able to perform admin duties anywhere.
                                  • Dave McGuire
                                    ... I have the same issue with web fora. I look at it (as an embedded developer) as the difference between polled and interrupt driven I/O. I have to
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Sep 12, 2013
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                                      On 09/11/2013 08:14 PM, Wesley Furr wrote:
                                      > What I like about Yahoo is that it gives people options...for those that
                                      > actually want to read messages via the web, they can...and the rest of us
                                      > can get them by email.
                                      >
                                      > The biggest problem I have with web forums is that I never can remember to
                                      > go check them out. I enjoy visiting the forums at www.vintage-computer.com,
                                      > but they are difficult to keep up with. First I have to remember to visit,
                                      > then I have to log in to attempt to track what I've seen and what I
                                      > haven't...I say "attempt", because if my session goes idle, then it sets
                                      > *all* the read flags so I have no idea where I left off in the various
                                      > sub-forums. I guess if I kept up with it every day, it wouldn't be a big
                                      > deal...

                                      I have the same issue with web fora. I look at it (as an embedded
                                      developer) as the difference between "polled" and "interrupt driven"
                                      I/O. I have to "poll" a forum to see new traffic, while email just
                                      shows up in my mail spool. I have to "poll" THAT for new traffic, but
                                      I'm in the habit of doing that every few minutes anyway.

                                      Phones, on the other hand, are fully "interrupt driven", which is why
                                      I despise them. I usually don't have coverage where I spend most of my
                                      time anyway so it's generally not a problem.

                                      > That said...I want to know your secret to having too much time on your
                                      > hands. :-)

                                      You and me both!

                                      -Dave

                                      --
                                      Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                                      New Kensington, PA
                                    • Dave McGuire
                                      ... Cool. My VAX- and PDP11-hacking friend Brian (not on this list) used to live in Allentown PA and worked in Philadelphia. He wrote a LOT of software on
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Sep 12, 2013
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                                        On 09/12/2013 12:42 PM, Evan Koblentz wrote:
                                        >>>> But my ability to admin the group via mobile is broken -- and I work via mobile a lot, more than most people.
                                        >
                                        >>> Do you take a lot of trains/buses or something
                                        >
                                        > Yes.

                                        Cool. My VAX- and PDP11-hacking friend Brian (not on this list) used
                                        to live in Allentown PA and worked in Philadelphia. He wrote a LOT of
                                        software on his daily train commute.

                                        > I'm also generally away from my home office a lot, and I need to be able to perform admin duties anywhere.

                                        Sounds good to me.

                                        Enough people are screaming about this (you should see the shitstorm
                                        on the microscopes and regen-rx lists!) that they're bound to fix
                                        something soon.

                                        -Dave

                                        --
                                        Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                                        New Kensington, PA
                                      • Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-
                                        ... A-town. My old home stomping ground! -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG Well I speak to machines with the
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Sep 12, 2013
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                                          Dave McGuire <Mcguire@...> writes:

                                          >On 09/12/2013 12:42 PM, Evan Koblentz wrote:
                                          >>>>> But my ability to admin the group via mobile is broken -- and I work via mobile a lot, more than most people.
                                          >>
                                          >>>> Do you take a lot of trains/buses or something
                                          >>
                                          >> Yes.
                                          >
                                          > Cool. My VAX- and PDP11-hacking friend Brian (not on this list) used
                                          >to live in Allentown PA and worked in Philadelphia. He wrote a LOT of
                                          >software on his daily train commute.

                                          A-town. My old home stomping ground!

                                          --
                                          VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG

                                          Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
                                        • Dave McGuire
                                          ... Cool! I lived in Bethlehem for awhile, 1992. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Sep 12, 2013
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                                            On 09/12/2013 01:36 PM, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
                                            >>>>>> But my ability to admin the group via mobile is broken -- and I work via mobile a lot, more than most people.
                                            >>>
                                            >>>>> Do you take a lot of trains/buses or something
                                            >>>
                                            >>> Yes.
                                            >>
                                            >> Cool. My VAX- and PDP11-hacking friend Brian (not on this list) used
                                            >> to live in Allentown PA and worked in Philadelphia. He wrote a LOT of
                                            >> software on his daily train commute.
                                            >
                                            > A-town. My old home stomping ground!

                                            Cool! I lived in Bethlehem for awhile, 1992.

                                            -Dave

                                            --
                                            Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                                            New Kensington, PA
                                          • Cory Smelosky
                                            ... If I donÆt regularly check on my mail server it might crash. I need to get around to figuring out /why/. The problem is that the daemon isnÆt
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Sep 12, 2013
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                                              On 12 Sep 2013, at 12:47, Dave McGuire <Mcguire@...> wrote:

                                              >
                                              > On 09/11/2013 08:14 PM, Wesley Furr wrote:
                                              >> What I like about Yahoo is that it gives people options...for those that
                                              >> actually want to read messages via the web, they can...and the rest of us
                                              >> can get them by email.
                                              >>
                                              >> The biggest problem I have with web forums is that I never can remember to
                                              >> go check them out. I enjoy visiting the forums at www.vintage-computer.com,
                                              >> but they are difficult to keep up with. First I have to remember to visit,
                                              >> then I have to log in to attempt to track what I've seen and what I
                                              >> haven't...I say "attempt", because if my session goes idle, then it sets
                                              >> *all* the read flags so I have no idea where I left off in the various
                                              >> sub-forums. I guess if I kept up with it every day, it wouldn't be a big
                                              >> deal...
                                              >
                                              > I have the same issue with web fora. I look at it (as an embedded
                                              > developer) as the difference between "polled" and "interrupt driven"
                                              > I/O. I have to "poll" a forum to see new traffic, while email just
                                              > shows up in my mail spool. I have to "poll" THAT for new traffic, but
                                              > I'm in the habit of doing that every few minutes anyway.

                                              If I don’t regularly check on my mail server it might crash. I need to get around to figuring out /why/. The problem is that the daemon isn’t exiting…it’s just…stuck in some sort of I/O state doing nothing.

                                              >
                                              > Phones, on the other hand, are fully "interrupt driven", which is why
                                              > I despise them. I usually don't have coverage where I spend most of my
                                              > time anyway so it's generally not a problem.
                                              >
                                              >> That said...I want to know your secret to having too much time on your
                                              >> hands. :-)
                                              >
                                              > You and me both!

                                              I don’t recommend it. A lot of things that didn’t happen the way they should have is why I have too much free time.

                                              >
                                              > -Dave
                                              >
                                              > --
                                              > Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                                              > New Kensington, PA
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ------------------------------------
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
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