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Museum report + various updates

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  • Evan Koblentz
    Me, Matthew W., Don C., and Rolf L. worked in the storage area from about 10am to about 3pm. We moved approximately 1/6th of our storage into the new section,
    Message 1 of 19 , Aug 11, 2013
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      Me, Matthew W., Don C., and Rolf L. worked in the storage area from about 10am to about 3pm. We moved approximately 1/6th of our storage into the new section, including most of our DEC collection.

      After that, I wanted to make some changes to the Big Iron exhibit room. Diver Dan, one NJARC person, and two InfoAge volunteers all helped Matthew and I to move the Cray YMP-EL into the museum. It's not so old -- 1991, so just 22 years -- but it's very cool. After we coaxed it onto a pallet jack, I noticed that one of its wheels was very out-of-round, which was making the computer difficult to move. Diver Dan happened to have a suitable replacement caster wheel ... so we literally changed a wheel in a supercomputer pit stop while it was lifted via the pallet jack!

      To make room for the Cray, other things had to be moved. Matthew and I (and Don/Rolf) moved the Burroughs B-80, and later the DG Eclipse, into storage. We also moved the Prime 6550 and Wang 2200 to different places in the exhibit room. And yes, we did measure before moving the Cray. :)

      Bill Deg. / Dave M. / Jeff B. / Jeff J. -- I will look for the small Cray front panel when I go again (Wednesday).

      Matthew had some good ideas for how we can improve the PDP-11/44 exhibit. We'll give them a try in the next week or few...

      Doug C. -- we tried some of the Epson QX-10 disks -- Wordstar works, but we had trouble with Valdocs. It got past the initialization and then gave us a bunch of fuzzy lines. :(

      Ian -- the Xerox 860 disks aren't here yet, so we weren't able to further test that system. They'll probably arrive tomorrow, so Corey and I will be able to try them Wednesday.

      All in all, it was a productive day. Big thanks to everyone who came to help, especially Matthew who drove all the way from Maryland despite being here for the workshop last weekend.
    • David Keith
      Even, From several photographs of previous VCFs I noticed that there is an IBM 1130 in the collection. It looked fairly beat up, and I assume it is no way
      Message 2 of 19 , Aug 11, 2013
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        Even,
        From several photographs of previous VCFs I noticed that there is an IBM 1130 in the collection. It looked fairly beat up, and I assume it is no way functional.  The 1130 was my second machine I programmed, after the Honeywell 200.  I would really like to check it out when I come up for a visit on Dec 7, will it be available ?

        Thanks
        David Keith



        From: Evan Koblentz <evan@...>
        To: MARCH Yahoo Midatlanticretro <midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2013 9:08 PM
        Subject: [midatlanticretro] Museum report + various updates

         
        Me, Matthew W., Don C., and Rolf L. worked in the storage area from about 10am to about 3pm. We moved approximately 1/6th of our storage into the new section, including most of our DEC collection.

        After that, I wanted to make some changes to the Big Iron exhibit room. Diver Dan, one NJARC person, and two InfoAge volunteers all helped Matthew and I to move the Cray YMP-EL into the museum. It's not so old -- 1991, so just 22 years -- but it's very cool. After we coaxed it onto a pallet jack, I noticed that one of its wheels was very out-of-round, which was making the computer difficult to move. Diver Dan happened to have a suitable replacement caster wheel ... so we literally changed a wheel in a supercomputer pit stop while it was lifted via the pallet jack!

        To make room for the Cray, other things had to be moved. Matthew and I (and Don/Rolf) moved the Burroughs B-80, and later the DG Eclipse, into storage. We also moved the Prime 6550 and Wang 2200 to different places in the exhibit room. And yes, we did measure before moving the Cray. :)

        Bill Deg. / Dave M. / Jeff B. / Jeff J. -- I will look for the small Cray front panel when I go again (Wednesday).

        Matthew had some good ideas for how we can improve the PDP-11/44 exhibit. We'll give them a try in the next week or few...

        Doug C. -- we tried some of the Epson QX-10 disks -- Wordstar works, but we had trouble with Valdocs. It got past the initialization and then gave us a bunch of fuzzy lines. :(

        Ian -- the Xerox 860 disks aren't here yet, so we weren't able to further test that system. They'll probably arrive tomorrow, so Corey and I will be able to try them Wednesday.

        All in all, it was a productive day. Big thanks to everyone who came to help, especially Matthew who drove all the way from Maryland despite being here for the workshop last weekend.



      • Evan Koblentz
        ... Evan ... Even would be odd. :) ... True! ... Not yet, but the guys behind ibm1130.org examined it and said it is definitely restorable. It would be a
        Message 3 of 19 , Aug 11, 2013
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          >> Even

          "Evan" ... "Even" would be odd. :)

          >> From several photographs of previous VCFs I noticed that there is an IBM 1130 in the collection.

          True!

          >> It looked fairly beat up, and I assume it is no way functional.

          Not yet, but the guys behind ibm1130.org examined it and said it is definitely restorable. It would be a major task, but it is not out of the question.

          >> I would really like to check it out when I come up for a visit on Dec 7, will it be available?

          Yes. Be sure to contact me a few weeks before your visit, because we're not normally there on Saturdays.

          However, we still have to decide on a weekend for our holiday party (the "Vintage Computer Festivus") and it might be that weekend ... in which you can visit the museum, see the 1130, and celebrate with us.
        • DougCrawford
          ... Interesting. Note that the CPM2.2 disk didn t boot fully, causing the video to loose lock. TMP version did boot and is probably what you ran. Is it right
          Message 4 of 19 , Aug 12, 2013
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            > Doug C. -- we tried some of the Epson QX-10 disks -- Wordstar works, but we had trouble with Valdocs. It got past the initialization and then gave us a bunch of fuzzy lines. :(

            Interesting. Note that the CPM2.2 disk didn't boot fully, causing the video to loose lock. TMP version did boot and is probably what
            you ran. Is it right for valdocs? Don't know.

            A wiki claims this:
            TPM-III was used for Valdocs and some copy protected programs like Logo Professor.

            I did not see a "-III" associated with the TPM I got
            off of Dave's old computers site.

            This site has more disks:
            http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/comp/qx10/disklibrary.html

            I'll make some and bring them along Wednesday.
          • Evan Koblentz
            ... Valdocs has TPM built-in -- you boot from the Valdocs disk and it automatically loads TPM first. At least that s what I think happens.
            Message 5 of 19 , Aug 12, 2013
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              >> TMP version did boot and is probably what you ran. Is it right for valdocs?

              Valdocs has TPM built-in -- you boot from the Valdocs disk and it automatically loads TPM first.

              At least that's what I think happens.
            • Dave McGuire
              Great! Thank you for swapping that caster. I ve looked off-and-on for years for an appropriate replacement, and have never managed to find one. -Dave ... --
              Message 6 of 19 , Aug 12, 2013
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                Great! Thank you for swapping that caster. I've looked off-and-on
                for years for an appropriate replacement, and have never managed to find
                one.

                -Dave

                On 08/11/2013 09:08 PM, Evan Koblentz wrote:
                > Me, Matthew W., Don C., and Rolf L. worked in the storage area from about 10am to about 3pm. We moved approximately 1/6th of our storage into the new section, including most of our DEC collection.
                >
                > After that, I wanted to make some changes to the Big Iron exhibit room. Diver Dan, one NJARC person, and two InfoAge volunteers all helped Matthew and I to move the Cray YMP-EL into the museum. It's not so old -- 1991, so just 22 years -- but it's very cool. After we coaxed it onto a pallet jack, I noticed that one of its wheels was very out-of-round, which was making the computer difficult to move. Diver Dan happened to have a suitable replacement caster wheel ... so we literally changed a wheel in a supercomputer pit stop while it was lifted via the pallet jack!
                >
                > To make room for the Cray, other things had to be moved. Matthew and I (and Don/Rolf) moved the Burroughs B-80, and later the DG Eclipse, into storage. We also moved the Prime 6550 and Wang 2200 to different places in the exhibit room. And yes, we did measure before moving the Cray. :)
                >
                > Bill Deg. / Dave M. / Jeff B. / Jeff J. -- I will look for the small Cray front panel when I go again (Wednesday).
                >
                > Matthew had some good ideas for how we can improve the PDP-11/44 exhibit. We'll give them a try in the next week or few...
                >
                > Doug C. -- we tried some of the Epson QX-10 disks -- Wordstar works, but we had trouble with Valdocs. It got past the initialization and then gave us a bunch of fuzzy lines. :(
                >
                > Ian -- the Xerox 860 disks aren't here yet, so we weren't able to further test that system. They'll probably arrive tomorrow, so Corey and I will be able to try them Wednesday.
                >
                > All in all, it was a productive day. Big thanks to everyone who came to help, especially Matthew who drove all the way from Maryland despite being here for the workshop last weekend.
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >


                --
                Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                New Kensington, PA
              • Evan Koblentz
                ... The replacement is about 3/4 the width of the original, so it might not be as strong, but it enabled us to move the computer without leaving a skid mark on
                Message 7 of 19 , Aug 12, 2013
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                  > Great! Thank you for swapping that caster. I've looked off-and-on
                  > for years for an appropriate replacement, and have never managed to find
                  > one.


                  The replacement is about 3/4 the width of the original, so it might not
                  be as strong, but it enabled us to move the computer without leaving a
                  skid mark on the hallway floor.

                  It was just pretty funny how the repair was more of a pit stop than
                  planned maintenance.

                  1. Move computer a certain distance
                  2. Stop, jack up, change the wheel
                  3. Lower computer, continue moving
                • David Keith
                  Sorry Evan, I assumed Dec 7 was the VCF this year, please let me know when it is and I will be happy to visit the museum, see the 1130, and celebrate with you
                  Message 8 of 19 , Aug 12, 2013
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                    Sorry Evan, I assumed Dec 7 was the VCF this year, please let me know when it is and I will be happy to visit the museum, see the 1130, and celebrate with you all. 
                    /*
                    //



                    From: Evan Koblentz <evan@...>
                    To: MARCH Yahoo Midatlanticretro <midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2013 10:56 PM
                    Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Museum report + various updates

                    >> Even

                    "Evan" ... "Even" would be odd.  :)

                    >> From several photographs of previous VCFs I noticed that there is an IBM 1130 in the collection.

                    True!

                    >> It looked fairly beat up, and I assume it is no way functional.

                    Not yet, but the guys behind ibm1130.org examined it and said it is definitely restorable. It would be a major task, but it is not out of the question.

                    >> I would really like to check it out when I come up for a visit on Dec 7, will it be available?

                    Yes. Be sure to contact me a few weeks before your visit, because we're not normally there on Saturdays.

                    However, we still have to decide on a weekend for our holiday party (the "Vintage Computer Festivus") and it might be that weekend ... in which you can visit the museum, see the 1130, and celebrate with us.




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                  • Dave McGuire
                    ... I m sure it will be fine. That caster has been giving me trouble since day one. Anything would be an improvement. ;) ... -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New
                    Message 9 of 19 , Aug 12, 2013
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                      On 08/12/2013 05:13 PM, Evan Koblentz wrote:
                      >> Great! Thank you for swapping that caster. I've looked off-and-on
                      >> for years for an appropriate replacement, and have never managed to find
                      >> one.
                      >
                      > The replacement is about 3/4 the width of the original, so it might not
                      > be as strong, but it enabled us to move the computer without leaving a
                      > skid mark on the hallway floor.

                      I'm sure it will be fine. That caster has been giving me trouble
                      since day one. Anything would be an improvement. ;)

                      > It was just pretty funny how the repair was more of a pit stop than
                      > planned maintenance.
                      >
                      > 1. Move computer a certain distance
                      > 2. Stop, jack up, change the wheel
                      > 3. Lower computer, continue moving

                      :-)

                      -Dave

                      --
                      Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                      New Kensington, PA
                    • corey986
                      ... I m sure it will be fine. That caster has been giving me trouble since day one. Anything would be an improvement. ;) ... -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New
                      Message 10 of 19 , Aug 13, 2013
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                        22 years is vintage for a supercomputer....  



                        --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, <Mcguire@...> wrote:

                        On 08/12/2013 05:13 PM, Evan Koblentz wrote:
                        >> Great! Thank you for swapping that caster. I've looked off-and-on
                        >> for years for an appropriate replacement, and have never managed to find
                        >> one.
                        >
                        > The replacement is about 3/4 the width of the original, so it might not
                        > be as strong, but it enabled us to move the computer without leaving a
                        > skid mark on the hallway floor.

                        I'm sure it will be fine. That caster has been giving me trouble
                        since day one. Anything would be an improvement. ;)

                        > It was just pretty funny how the repair was more of a pit stop than
                        > planned maintenance.
                        >
                        > 1. Move computer a certain distance
                        > 2. Stop, jack up, change the wheel
                        > 3. Lower computer, continue moving

                        :-)

                        -Dave

                        --
                        Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                        New Kensington, PA
                      • Dave McGuire
                        ... I would agree, but bear in mind that most production supercomputers today in less-than-glitzy applications that don t get much press coverage (weather
                        Message 11 of 19 , Aug 13, 2013
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                          On 08/13/2013 02:33 PM, corey986 wrote:
                          > 22 years is vintage for a supercomputer....

                          I would agree, but bear in mind that most production supercomputers
                          today in less-than-glitzy applications that don't get much press
                          coverage (weather prediction, geology, oil exploration...which covers
                          90% of supercomputer installations today) are running machines anywhere
                          from 8 to 15 years old.

                          The whole "this ten-million-dollar machine is ancient, almost a whole
                          year old now, so it can obviously no longer process data, so we've gotta
                          scrap it and buy a new one!" attitude that permeates the corporate PC
                          world does not fly in scientific computing, because in that world,
                          clueless management is the exception rather than the rule.

                          So yes, a 22-year-old vector super is quite long in the tooth...but
                          not by as much as one might think.

                          -Dave

                          --
                          Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                          New Kensington, PA
                        • David Keith
                          Guys, I found this on eBay and I just could not help myself :-)  Actually it is an IBM 370/145 Control Panel
                          Message 12 of 19 , Aug 15, 2013
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                            Guys,

                            I found this on eBay and I just could not help myself :-)  Actually it is an IBM 370/145 Control Panel

                            http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-IBM-360-mainframe-COMPUTER-control-panel-faceplate-CUSTOM-LIGHTS-/261261607642

                            My plan is to restore it to a functional state, add an original name plate (all I have is a IBM 370/158 name plate) and connect it to a Raspberry Pi running Hercules System 370 emulator. 

                            http://www.hercules-390.eu/

                            If I get it working by VCF this year I will bring it for display.

                            Have Fun,
                            David Keith

                            ------------------------------------

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                          • Evan Koblentz
                            ... Next VCF East is next year. :) April 5-6, 2014
                            Message 13 of 19 , Aug 15, 2013
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                              >> If I get it working by VCF this year

                              Next VCF East is next year. :) April 5-6, 2014
                            • Dave McGuire
                              ... I saw that on eBay. I nearly cried when I read about the Christmas lights modification. I m glad it went to a good home. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                              Message 14 of 19 , Aug 16, 2013
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                                On 08/15/2013 09:48 PM, David Keith wrote:
                                > I found this on eBay and I just could not help myself :-) Actually it
                                > is an IBM 370/145 Control Panel
                                >
                                > http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-IBM-360-mainframe-COMPUTER-control-panel-faceplate-CUSTOM-LIGHTS-/261261607642
                                >
                                > My plan is to restore it to a functional state, add an original name
                                > plate (all I have is a IBM 370/158 name plate) and connect it to a
                                > Raspberry Pi running Hercules System 370 emulator.
                                >
                                > http://www.hercules-390.eu/
                                >
                                > If I get it working by VCF this year I will bring it for display.

                                I saw that on eBay. I nearly cried when I read about the "Christmas
                                lights" modification. I'm glad it went to a good home.

                                -Dave

                                --
                                Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                                New Kensington, PA
                              • David Keith
                                Me too, but I can rebuild it have the technology it.  I do have original IBM parts to fully restore it to a functional front panel.  Just hate to tell you
                                Message 15 of 19 , Aug 16, 2013
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                                  Me too, but I can rebuild it have the technology it.  I do have original IBM parts to fully restore it to a functional front panel.  Just hate to tell you where I got them from :-(

                                  David Keith


                                  From: Dave McGuire <Mcguire@...>
                                  To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 1:56 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] my new vintage toy

                                   
                                  On 08/15/2013 09:48 PM, David Keith wrote:
                                  > I found this on eBay and I just could not help myself :-) Actually it
                                  > is an IBM 370/145 Control Panel
                                  >
                                  > http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-IBM-360-mainframe-COMPUTER-control-panel-faceplate-CUSTOM-LIGHTS-/261261607642
                                  >
                                  > My plan is to restore it to a functional state, add an original name
                                  > plate (all I have is a IBM 370/158 name plate) and connect it to a
                                  > Raspberry Pi running Hercules System 370 emulator.
                                  >
                                  > http://www.hercules-390.eu/
                                  >
                                  > If I get it working by VCF this year I will bring it for display.

                                  I saw that on eBay. I nearly cried when I read about the "Christmas
                                  lights" modification. I'm glad it went to a good home.

                                  -Dave

                                  --
                                  Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                                  New Kensington, PA


                                • David Keith
                                  Got my Vintage IBM 370/145 Control Panel today. It is not in too bad of shape considering it is about 40 years old.  I placed a IBM 370/158 header plate on
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Aug 20, 2013
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                                    Got my Vintage IBM 370/145 Control Panel today. It is not in too bad of shape considering it is about 40 years old.  I placed a IBM 370/158 header plate on top just for show, don't have a 145 header plate. :-( If there is anyone with a 145 header that would like to trade or sell please let me know.  I see what was done with the Christmas lights, and it will be very hard to repair the light sockets.  They cut the light socket in half, and took the lens off of the light blubs and glued them on the front, then stuck Christmas lights in the back side.  I have some light sockets and blubs, but not 150 (36X4 + 6) of them. I going to have to think about a compromise. I have to use incandescent light blubs because they did not use LEDs on the original. I have designed a circuit board(s) to drive the incandescent lights individually from a Raspberry Pi.  

                                    Going have fun this winter :-) restoring my Altair 8800 and my Mainframe (I was a Systems Programmer on a IBM System 370/145, 148, 158)

                                    David Keith


                                    From: Dave McGuire <Mcguire@...>
                                    To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 1:56 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] my new vintage toy

                                     
                                    On 08/15/2013 09:48 PM, David Keith wrote:
                                    > I found this on eBay and I just could not help myself :-) Actually it
                                    > is an IBM 370/145 Control Panel
                                    >
                                    > http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-IBM-360-mainframe-COMPUTER-control-panel-faceplate-CUSTOM-LIGHTS-/261261607642
                                    >
                                    > My plan is to restore it to a functional state, add an original name
                                    > plate (all I have is a IBM 370/158 name plate) and connect it to a
                                    > Raspberry Pi running Hercules System 370 emulator.
                                    >
                                    > http://www.hercules-390.eu/
                                    >
                                    > If I get it working by VCF this year I will bring it for display.

                                    I saw that on eBay. I nearly cried when I read about the "Christmas
                                    lights" modification. I'm glad it went to a good home.

                                    -Dave

                                    --
                                    Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                                    New Kensington, PA


                                  • Cory Smelosky
                                    ... ?? I want pictures! :) ... Do you have a mainframe or just the panel? ... -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Aug 20, 2013
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                                      On Tue, 20 Aug 2013, David Keith wrote:

                                      > Got my Vintage IBM 370/145 Control Panel today. It is not in too bad of shape considering it is about 40 years old.  I placed a IBM 370/158 header plate on top just for show, don't have a 145 header plate. :-( If there is anyone with a 145 header that would like to trade or sell please let me know.  I see what was done with the Christmas lights, and it will be very hard to repair the light sockets.  They cut the light socket in half, and took the lens off of the light blubs and glued them on the front, then stuck Christmas lights in the back side.  I have some light sockets and blubs, but not 150 (36X4 + 6) of them. I going to have to think about a compromise. I have to use incandescent light blubs because they did not use LEDs on the original. I have designed a circuit board(s) to drive the incandescent lights individually from a Raspberry Pi.
                                      ??

                                      I want pictures! :)

                                      > Going have fun this winter :-) restoring my Altair 8800 and my Mainframe (I was a Systems Programmer on a IBM System 370/145, 148, 158)

                                      Do you have a mainframe or just the panel?

                                      >
                                      > David Keith
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ________________________________
                                      > From: Dave McGuire <Mcguire@...>
                                      > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 1:56 PM
                                      > Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] my new vintage toy
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      ?? On 08/15/2013 09:48 PM, David Keith wrote:
                                      >> I found this on eBay and I just could not help myself :-) Actually it
                                      >> is an IBM 370/145 Control Panel
                                      >>
                                      >> http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-IBM-360-mainframe-COMPUTER-control-panel-faceplate-CUSTOM-LIGHTS-/261261607642
                                      >>
                                      >> My plan is to restore it to a functional state, add an original name
                                      >> plate (all I have is a IBM 370/158 name plate) and connect it to a
                                      >> Raspberry Pi running Hercules System 370 emulator.
                                      >>
                                      >> http://www.hercules-390.eu/
                                      >>
                                      >> If I get it working by VCF this year I will bring it for display.
                                      >
                                      > I saw that on eBay. I nearly cried when I read about the "Christmas
                                      > lights" modification. I'm glad it went to a good home.
                                      >
                                      > -Dave
                                      >
                                      >

                                      --
                                      Cory Smelosky
                                      http://gewt.net Personal stuff
                                      http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
                                    • David
                                      Just the front control panel, I am going to replace it s brain with a Raspberry PI running Hercules VM/370. The Raspberry PI has many times the compute power,
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Aug 20, 2013
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                                        Just the front control panel, I am going to replace it's brain with a Raspberry PI running Hercules VM/370. The Raspberry PI has many times the compute power, than the old mainframes.

                                        I have created an album to record the restoration.

                                        --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "Cory Smelosky" <b4@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > On Tue, 20 Aug 2013, David Keith wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > Got my Vintage IBM 370/145 Control Panel today. It is not in too bad of shape considering it is about 40 years old.  I placed a IBM 370/158 header plate on top just for show, don't have a 145 header plate. :-( If there is anyone with a 145 header that would like to trade or sell please let me know.  I see what was done with the Christmas lights, and it will be very hard to repair the light sockets.  They cut the light socket in half, and took the lens off of the light blubs and glued them on the front, then stuck Christmas lights in the back side.  I have some light sockets and blubs, but not 150 (36X4 + 6) of them. I going to have to think about a compromise. I have to use incandescent light blubs because they did not use LEDs on the original. I have designed a circuit board(s) to drive the incandescent lights individually from a Raspberry Pi.
                                        > ??
                                        >
                                        > I want pictures! :)
                                        >
                                        > > Going have fun this winter :-) restoring my Altair 8800 and my Mainframe (I was a Systems Programmer on a IBM System 370/145, 148, 158)
                                        >
                                        > Do you have a mainframe or just the panel?
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > > David Keith
                                        > >


                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --
                                        > Cory Smelosky
                                        > http://gewt.net Personal stuff
                                        > http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
                                        >
                                      • David Keith
                                        Saw this seller on eBay, he has two card sorters that need a lot of restoration, but a good price :-$ for now at least
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Aug 27, 2013
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                                          Saw this seller on eBay, he has two card sorters that need a lot of restoration, but a good price :-$ for now at least

                                          http://www.ebay.com/sch/guardianrob453/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

                                          Too old for my interest, but maybe someone in the group may give it a go

                                          -- David Keith



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