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And even more pics from the TCF 2005

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  • billdeg@aol.com
    Hi - I put up some more hardware pics... http://www.vintagecomputer.net/tcf_2005/ ... pictures of most of the computers that were displayed with the notable
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 19, 2005
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      Hi - I put up some more hardware pics...

      http://www.vintagecomputer.net/tcf_2005/

      ... pictures of most of the computers that were displayed with the notable
      exceptions:
      Tandy Model 12, Model 16, and TRS 80 Model IV.
      KIM Rev B and HP computer.
      DEC Emulator system (name?)
      Ohio Scientific Challenger 4P (my favorite)

      If anyone was wondering... the Ohio Challenger 4P blew the doors off my
      Commodore 128 in a head to head system speed match up, running the following BASIC
      code (something to the effect of):

      10 k=0
      20 for k = 1 to 9999
      30 k = k+1
      40 next k
      50 print k " - done!"

      The PET 4016 lost to the VIC 20 by a few seconds, a much closer race.

      Next challenge ??
      Atari 400 vs. a TI 99/4a vs. VIC 20??
      Commodore CBM 256-80 vs. IBM PC?

      Thanks to everyone for making me feel welcome and for the generous trades.

      I hope everyone was able to get all of their gems safely back in storage!

      I had a lot of fun. Count me in for future events!

      -Bill
    • Evan
      Thanks Bill! _____ From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of billdeg@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 19, 2005
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        Thanks Bill!


        From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of billdeg@...
        Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 8:57 PM
        To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [midatlanticretro] And even more pics from the TCF 2005

        Hi - I put up some more hardware pics...

        http://www.vintagecomputer.net/tcf_2005/

        ... pictures of most of the computers that were displayed with the notable
        exceptions:
        Tandy Model 12, Model 16, and TRS 80 Model IV. 
        KIM Rev B and HP computer.
        DEC Emulator system (name?)
        Ohio Scientific Challenger 4P (my favorite)

        If anyone was wondering... the Ohio Challenger 4P blew the doors off my
        Commodore 128 in a head to head system speed match up, running the following BASIC
        code (something to the effect of):

        10 k=0
        20 for k = 1 to 9999
        30 k = k+1
        40 next k
        50 print k " - done!"

        The PET 4016 lost to the VIC 20 by a few seconds, a much closer race.

        Next challenge ??
        Atari 400 vs. a TI 99/4a vs. VIC 20??
        Commodore CBM 256-80 vs. IBM PC?

        Thanks to everyone for making me feel welcome and for the generous trades. 

        I hope everyone was able to get all of their gems safely back in storage! 

        I had a lot of fun.  Count me in for future events!

        -Bill
      • ahm
        ... Does this even work? Nasty things tend to happen when you change loop variables on the fly.
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 19, 2005
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          On Tue, Apr 19, 2005 at 08:56:33PM -0400, billdeg@... wrote:
          > (something to the effect of):
          >
          > 10 k=0
          > 20 for k = 1 to 9999
          > 30 k = k+1
          > 40 next k
          > 50 print k " - done!"

          Does this even work?
          Nasty things tend to happen when you change loop variables on the fly.
        • billdeg@aol.com
          Yes, this will work, but I should have removed line 30, it s redundant. Bill In a message dated 4/19/2005 10:47:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 20, 2005
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            Yes, this will work, but I should have removed line 30, it's redundant.
            Bill

            In a message dated 4/19/2005 10:47:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
            ahm@... writes:

            > > 10 k=0
            > > 20 for k = 1 to 9999
            > > 30 k = k+1
            > > 40 next k
            > > 50 print k " - done!"
            >
            > Does this even work?
            > Nasty things tend to happen when you change loop variables on the fly.
          • Ray Sills
            Hi Gang: I don t think line 10 is needed either, since the for-next loop assigns values to k. Of course, it -is- good programming form to declare a variable
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 20, 2005
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              Hi Gang:

              I don't think line 10 is needed either, since the for-next loop assigns
              values to k. Of course, it -is- good programming form to declare a
              variable at the beginning of a routine, and assign a zero or null
              value.

              73 de Ray
              K2ULR
              FN20tl
              On Apr 20, 2005, at 8:04 AM, billdeg@... wrote:

              > Yes, this will work, but I should have removed line 30, it's redundant.
              > Bill
              >
              > In a message dated 4/19/2005 10:47:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
              > ahm@... writes:
              >
              > > > 10 k=0
              > >  > 20 for k = 1 to 9999
              > >  > 30 k = k+1
              > >  > 40 next k
              > >  > 50 print k " - done!"
              > > 
              > >  Does this even work?
              > >  Nasty things tend to happen when you change loop variables on the
              > fly.
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/
              >  
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              > midatlanticretro-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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              > Service.
              >
            • David V. Corbin
              In fact line #10 is BAD and may confuse many versions of basic... NEVER modify the index of a for loop inside the loop... ... From:
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 20, 2005
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                In fact line #10 is BAD and may confuse many versions of basic... NEVER
                modify the index of a for loop inside the loop...

                -----Original Message-----
                From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sills
                Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 9:02 AM
                To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Re: BASIC drag race


                Hi Gang:

                I don't think line 10 is needed either, since the for-next loop assigns
                values to k. Of course, it -is- good programming form to declare a
                variable at the beginning of a routine, and assign a zero or null
                value.

                73 de Ray
                K2ULR
                FN20tl
                On Apr 20, 2005, at 8:04 AM, billdeg@... wrote:

                > Yes, this will work, but I should have removed line 30, it's redundant.
                > Bill
                >
                > In a message dated 4/19/2005 10:47:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                > ahm@... writes:
                >
                > > > 10 k=0
                > >  > 20 for k = 1 to 9999
                > >  > 30 k = k+1
                > >  > 40 next k
                > >  > 50 print k " - done!"
                > > 
                > >  Does this even work?
                > >  Nasty things tend to happen when you change loop variables on the
                > fly.
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/
                >  
                > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > midatlanticretro-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >  
                > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                > Service.
                >




                Yahoo! Groups Links
              • Evan
                I agree. I also agree with the previous comments about it being good practice to define variables, but with (k= 1....) in line 20, that gets defined anyway.
                Message 7 of 10 , Apr 20, 2005
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                  I agree.  I also agree with the previous comments about it being good practice to define variables, but with (k= 1....) in line 20, that gets defined anyway.
                   
                  Then again, my programming knowledge isn't much more advanced than this simple interperted BASIC code...


                  From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David V. Corbin
                  Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 2:14 PM
                  To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Re: BASIC drag race

                  In fact line #10 is BAD and may confuse many versions of basic... NEVER
                  modify the index of a for loop inside the loop...

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sills
                  Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 9:02 AM
                  To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Re: BASIC drag race


                  Hi Gang:

                  I don't think line 10 is needed either, since the for-next loop assigns
                  values to k.  Of course, it -is- good programming form to declare a
                  variable at the beginning of a routine, and assign a zero or null
                  value.

                  73 de Ray
                  K2ULR
                  FN20tl
                  On Apr 20, 2005, at 8:04 AM, billdeg@... wrote:

                  > Yes, this will work,
                  but I should have removed line 30, it's redundant.
                  Bill
                  >
                  >  In a message dated 4/19/2005 10:47:01 PM Eastern
                  Standard Time,
                  >  ahm@... writes:
                  >
                  >  > > 10 k=0
                  >  >  > 20 for k = 1 to
                  9999
                  >  >  > 30 k = k+1
                  >  >  > 40
                  next k
                  >  >  > 50 print k " - done!"
                  >  > 
                  >  >  Does this even work?
                  >  >  Nasty things tend to happen when you change loop variables on the
                  > fly.
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                        •       To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  >
                  href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/
                  >
                   
                  >       •      
                  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  >
                  midatlanticretro-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >  
                  >
                        •       Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                  >
                  Service.
                  >




                  Yahoo! Groups Links







                • billdeg@aol.com
                  all true...the point is that we were running a simple BASIC program to add numbers with the intent on seeing whose computer was faster. In our case the code
                  Message 8 of 10 , Apr 20, 2005
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                    all true...the point is that we were running a simple BASIC program to add numbers with the intent on seeing whose computer was faster.  In our case the code worked fine.  I love it that we are discussing the finer points of BASIC.  It's been 16 years since I was paid to write in BASIC. :-)
                    Bill
                     
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Evan <evan947@...>
                    To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 14:20:24 -0400
                    Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Re: BASIC drag race

                    I agree.  I also agree with the previous comments about it being good practice to define variables, but with (k= 1....) in line 20, that gets defined anyway.
                     
                    Then again, my programming knowledge isn't much more advanced than this simple interperted BASIC code...


                    From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David V. Corbin
                    Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 2:14 PM
                    To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Re: BASIC drag race

                    In fact line #10 is BAD and may confuse many versions of basic... NEVER
                    modify the index of a for loop inside the loop...

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sills
                    Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 9:02 AM
                    To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Re: BASIC drag race


                    Hi Gang:

                    I don't think line 10 is needed either, since the for-next loop assigns
                    values to k.  Of course, it -is- good programming form to declare a
                    variable at the beginning of a routine, and assign a zero or null
                    value.

                    73 de Ray
                    K2ULR
                    FN20tl
                    On Apr 20, 2005, at 8:04 AM, billdeg@... wrote:

                    > Yes, this will work, but I should have removed line 30, it's redundant.
                    >  Bill
                    >
                    >  In a message dated 4/19/2005 10:47:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                    >  ahm@... writes:
                    >
                    >  > > 10 k=0
                    >  >  > 20 for k = 1 to 9999
                    >  >  > 30 k = k+1
                    >  >  > 40 next k
                    >  >  > 50 print k " - done!"
                    >  > 
                    >  >  Does this even work?
                    >  >  Nasty things tend to happen when you change loop variables on the
                    > fly.
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >       •       To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/
                    >  
                    >       •       To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > midatlanticretro-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >  
                    >       •       Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    > Service.
                    >




                    Yahoo! Groups Links









                    Yahoo! Groups Links

                  • Evan
                    LOL, why do you think it says HELLO WORLD on my newsletter homepage? :-) _____ From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                    Message 9 of 10 , Apr 20, 2005
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                      LOL, why do you think it says "HELLO WORLD" on my newsletter homepage?   :-)


                      From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of billdeg@...
                      Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 1:14 AM
                      To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Re: BASIC drag race

                      all true...the point is that we were running a simple BASIC program to add numbers with the intent on seeing whose computer was faster.  In our case the code worked fine.  I love it that we are discussing the finer points of BASIC.  It's been 16 years since I was paid to write in BASIC. :-)
                      Bill
                       
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Evan <evan947@...>
                      To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 14:20:24 -0400
                      Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Re: BASIC drag race

                      I agree.  I also agree with the previous comments about it being good practice to define variables, but with (k= 1....) in line 20, that gets defined anyway.
                       
                      Then again, my programming knowledge isn't much more advanced than this simple interperted BASIC code...


                      From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David V. Corbin
                      Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 2:14 PM
                      To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Re: BASIC drag race

                      In fact line #10 is BAD and may confuse many versions of basic... NEVER
                      modify the index of a for loop inside the loop...

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sills
                      Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 9:02 AM
                      To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Re: BASIC drag race


                      Hi Gang:

                      I don't think line 10 is needed either, since the for-next loop assigns
                      values to k.  Of course, it -is- good programming form to declare a
                      variable at the beginning of a routine, and assign a zero or null
                      value.

                      73 de Ray
                      K2ULR
                      FN20tl
                      On Apr 20, 2005, at 8:04 AM, billdeg@... wrote:

                      > Yes, this will work,
                      but I should have removed line 30, it's redundant.
                      Bill
                      >
                      >  In a message dated 4/19/2005 10:47:01 PM Eastern
                      Standard Time,
                      >  ahm@... writes:
                      >
                      >  > > 10 k=0
                      >  >  > 20 for k = 1 to
                      9999
                      >  >  > 30 k = k+1
                      >  >  > 40
                      next k
                      >  >  > 50 print k " - done!"
                      >  > 
                      >  >  Does this even work?
                      >  >  Nasty things tend to happen when you change loop variables on the
                      > fly.
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                            •       To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      >
                      href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/" target=_blank>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/
                      >
                       
                      >       •      
                      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      >
                      midatlanticretro-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >  
                      >
                            •       Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                      >
                      Service.
                      >




                      Yahoo! Groups Links









                      Yahoo! Groups Links

                    • Jim Scheef
                      Hello all, I know I shouldn t do this, but... Someone already mentioned that there are differences in BASIC interpreters. This program may be doing different
                      Message 10 of 10 , Apr 21, 2005
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                        Hello all,

                        I know I shouldn't do this, but...

                        Someone already mentioned that there are differences in BASIC interpreters.
                        This program may be doing different things on each computer.

                        10 - sets k to zero
                        20 - sets k to one and initializes the for-next loop to stop when k is 999
                        30 - increments k by one
                        40 - marks the end of the loop AND (in most interpreters) increments k by one
                        50 - prints a message

                        I think this program is only performing half of the iterations intended by
                        the author. Now in a loop this short and running on these machines, I doubt
                        this will make much difference in execution time. If the machines have
                        clocks, it might be nice if the program printed that start and finish times.

                        Some interpreters might not stop if k somehow never hits 999 and skips to
                        1000. Most BASIC implementations do not require that variables be defined
                        before they are used so long as the first use assigns a value. Thus line 10
                        is superfluous, but line 30 is not redundant.

                        All of this could be used to wile away some hours in testing for differences
                        between the two machines. Try a print statement within a shorter loop to see
                        how the for-next works, etc.

                        Jim


                        --- billdeg@... wrote:
                        > all true...the point is that we were running a simple BASIC program to add
                        > numbers with the intent on seeing whose computer was faster. In our case
                        > the code worked fine. I love it that we are discussing the finer points of
                        > BASIC. It's been 16 years since I was paid to write in BASIC. :-)
                        > Bill
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Evan <evan947@...>
                        > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 14:20:24 -0400
                        > Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Re: BASIC drag race
                        >
                        >
                        > I agree. I also agree with the previous comments about it being good
                        > practice to define variables, but with (k= 1....) in line 20, that gets
                        > defined anyway.
                        >
                        > Then again, my programming knowledge isn't much more advanced than this
                        > simple interperted BASIC code...
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                        > [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David V. Corbin
                        > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 2:14 PM
                        > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Re: BASIC drag race
                        >
                        >
                        > In fact line #10 is BAD and may confuse many versions of basic... NEVER
                        > modify the index of a for loop inside the loop...
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                        > [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sills
                        > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 9:02 AM
                        > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Re: BASIC drag race
                        >
                        >
                        > Hi Gang:
                        >
                        > I don't think line 10 is needed either, since the for-next loop assigns
                        > values to k. Of course, it -is- good programming form to declare a
                        > variable at the beginning of a routine, and assign a zero or null
                        > value.
                        >
                        > 73 de Ray
                        > K2ULR
                        > FN20tl
                        > On Apr 20, 2005, at 8:04 AM, billdeg@... wrote:
                        >
                        > > Yes, this will work, but I should have removed line 30, it's redundant.
                        > > Bill
                        > >
                        > > In a message dated 4/19/2005 10:47:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                        > > ahm@... writes:
                        > >
                        > > > > 10 k=0
                        > > > > 20 for k = 1 to 9999
                        > > > > 30 k = k+1
                        > > > > 40 next k
                        > > > > 50 print k " - done!"
                        > > >
                        > > > Does this even work?
                        > > > Nasty things tend to happen when you change loop variables on the
                        > > fly.
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > > ��� To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/
                        > >
                        > > ��� To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > > midatlanticretro-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > >
                        > > ��� Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                        > of
                        > > Service.
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                        >
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