Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Ok historians. When was the intel hex format introduced...

Expand Messages
  • corey986
    Can t seem to find it using google. Anyone have an idea? What year for the first 8 bit format? Thanks, Corey
    Message 1 of 20 , Jun 16, 2013
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      Can't seem to find it using google.

      Anyone have an idea? What year for the first 8 bit format?

      Thanks,
      Corey
    • Kelly D. Leavitt
      ... This seems to imply 1988 http://www.interlog.com/~speff/usefulinfo/Hexfrmt.pdf It is revision A.
      Message 2 of 20 , Jun 16, 2013
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        Corey986 wrote:
        > Can't seem to find it using google.
        >
        > Anyone have an idea? What year for the first 8 bit format?

        This seems to imply 1988

        http://www.interlog.com/~speff/usefulinfo/Hexfrmt.pdf

        It is revision A.
      • Dave McGuire
        ... This cannot possibly be correct; I was using it years before 1988. The Programmer s CP/M Handbook by Andy Johnson-Laird is copyright 1983, and it
        Message 3 of 20 , Jun 16, 2013
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          On 06/16/2013 10:12 AM, Kelly D. Leavitt wrote:
          >> Can't seem to find it using google.
          >>
          >> Anyone have an idea? What year for the first 8 bit format?
          >
          > This seems to imply 1988
          >
          > http://www.interlog.com/~speff/usefulinfo/Hexfrmt.pdf
          >
          > It is revision A.

          This cannot possibly be correct; I was using it years before 1988.

          "The Programmer's CP/M Handbook" by Andy Johnson-Laird is copyright 1983,
          and it describes the format.

          -Dave

          --
          Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
          New Kensington, PA
        • Kelly D. Leavitt
          ... 1983, ... I feel the same way, but this seems to be when Intel officially documented it as the Intel Hex format. Need to find older documentation in one of
          Message 4 of 20 , Jun 16, 2013
          View Source
          • 0 Attachment
            On 06/16/2013 10:15 AM, Dave McGuire wrote:
            > On 06/16/2013 10:12 AM, Kelly D. Leavitt wrote:
            >>> Can't seem to find it using google.
            >>>
            >>> Anyone have an idea? What year for the first 8 bit format?
            >>
            >> This seems to imply 1988
            >>
            >> http://www.interlog.com/~speff/usefulinfo/Hexfrmt.pdf
            >>
            >> It is revision A.
            >
            >This cannot possibly be correct; I was using it years before 1988.
            >
            >"The Programmer's CP/M Handbook" by Andy Johnson-Laird is copyright
            1983,
            >and it describes the format.

            I feel the same way, but this seems to be when Intel officially
            documented
            it as the Intel Hex format. Need to find older documentation in one of
            their
            data books.

            Kelly
          • David Gesswein
            ... Yup, hard to find. This pushes it back to 1976 or 1978. www.cpm.z80.de/randyfiles/DRI/ASM.pdf. Page 1 says it generates Intel hex output.
            Message 5 of 20 , Jun 16, 2013
            View Source
            • 0 Attachment
              On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 01:37:22PM -0000, corey986 wrote:
              > Can't seem to find it using google.
              >
              Yup, hard to find. This pushes it back to 1976 or 1978.
              www.cpm.z80.de/randyfiles/DRI/ASM.pdf. Page 1 says it generates Intel hex
              output.
            • Dave McGuire
              ... I m guessing the documentation for the Intel MDS might be a good place to find a much earlier reference. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
              Message 6 of 20 , Jun 16, 2013
              View Source
              • 0 Attachment
                On 06/16/2013 10:29 AM, Kelly D. Leavitt wrote:
                >>>> Can't seem to find it using google.
                >>>>
                >>>> Anyone have an idea? What year for the first 8 bit format?
                >>>
                >>> This seems to imply 1988
                >>>
                >>> http://www.interlog.com/~speff/usefulinfo/Hexfrmt.pdf
                >>>
                >>> It is revision A.
                >>
                >> This cannot possibly be correct; I was using it years before 1988.
                >>
                >> "The Programmer's CP/M Handbook" by Andy Johnson-Laird is copyright
                > 1983,
                >> and it describes the format.
                >
                > I feel the same way, but this seems to be when Intel officially
                > documented
                > it as the Intel Hex format. Need to find older documentation in one of
                > their
                > data books.

                I'm guessing the documentation for the Intel MDS might be a good place to
                find a much earlier reference.

                -Dave

                --
                Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                New Kensington, PA
              • joshbensadon
                ... I don t have a lot of data, but I checked my intel 8080/8085 Assembly Language Programming book, c1977,1978,1979 (which I guess means the book is the
                Message 7 of 20 , Jun 16, 2013
                View Source
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Dave McGuire <Mcguire@...> wrote:
                  > >>
                  > >> "The Programmer's CP/M Handbook" by Andy Johnson-Laird is copyright
                  > > 1983,
                  > >> and it describes the format.
                  > >
                  > > I feel the same way, but this seems to be when Intel officially
                  > > documented
                  > > it as the Intel Hex format. Need to find older documentation in one of
                  > > their
                  > > data books.


                  I don't have a lot of data, but I checked my "intel 8080/8085 Assembly Language Programming" book, c1977,1978,1979 (which I guess means the book is the 3rd reprint or revision? done in 1979.

                  Page 1-2, talks about the assembler having an "OBJECT FILE" output that will likely be put in a ROM, but they do not go into any details. My guess, is either... the format wasn't established yet, or (more likely) they were keeping the format proprietary and didn't want to readily publish/share it.
                  I believe the latter to be the case, based on the electronics industry at that time.

                  Correct me if I'm wrong, but the format is primarily focused for 8 bit systems with 16bit addressing. I'm sure it can handle 16 bit (the PIC assembler outputs 16 bit data in intel format) but the overall format just looks natural in an 8 bit system.

                  :)J
                • corey986
                  Thanks. That s helpful. Hopefully we can confirm if its 76 or 78, but still that makes it plausible for what I m doing. I am writing a monitor for my altair
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jun 16, 2013
                  View Source
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thanks. That's helpful.

                    Hopefully we can confirm if its 76 or 78, but still that makes it plausible for what I'm doing. I am writing a monitor for my altair and was deciding if I should include a hex format load from paper tape or not. I wanted to be period correct for 1975/76.

                    Cheers,
                    Corey

                    --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, David Gesswein <djg@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 01:37:22PM -0000, corey986 wrote:
                    > > Can't seem to find it using google.
                    > >
                    > Yup, hard to find. This pushes it back to 1976 or 1978.
                    > www.cpm.z80.de/randyfiles/DRI/ASM.pdf. Page 1 says it generates Intel hex
                    > output.
                    >
                  • Neil Cherry
                    ... I think the latest version of the Intel hex can handle 32 bit addressing (hence the 88 update). See the Wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_hex
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jun 16, 2013
                    View Source
                    • 0 Attachment
                      On 06/16/2013 12:35 PM, joshbensadon wrote:

                      > Correct me if I'm wrong, but the format is primarily focused for 8 bit systems with 16bit
                      > addressing. I'm sure it can handle 16 bit (the PIC assembler outputs 16 bit data in intel
                      > format) but the overall format just looks natural in an 8 bit system.

                      I think the latest version of the Intel hex can handle 32 bit addressing (hence the 88
                      update).

                      See the Wiki page:

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_hex

                      --
                      Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@...
                      http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site
                      http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog
                      Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
                    • Dave McGuire
                      ... You re right, but it s extensible. I use it for ARM development. (32-bit) I ve not dug into the nature of the extensions, though; I just use it as an
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jun 16, 2013
                      View Source
                      • 0 Attachment
                        On 06/16/2013 12:35 PM, joshbensadon wrote:
                        >>>> "The Programmer's CP/M Handbook" by Andy Johnson-Laird is copyright
                        >>> 1983,
                        >>>> and it describes the format.
                        >>>
                        >>> I feel the same way, but this seems to be when Intel officially
                        >>> documented
                        >>> it as the Intel Hex format. Need to find older documentation in one of
                        >>> their
                        >>> data books.
                        >
                        >
                        > I don't have a lot of data, but I checked my "intel 8080/8085 Assembly Language Programming" book, c1977,1978,1979 (which I guess means the book is the 3rd reprint or revision? done in 1979.
                        >
                        > Page 1-2, talks about the assembler having an "OBJECT FILE" output that will likely be put in a ROM, but they do not go into any details. My guess, is either... the format wasn't established yet, or (more likely) they were keeping the format proprietary and didn't want to readily publish/share it.
                        > I believe the latter to be the case, based on the electronics industry at that time.
                        >
                        > Correct me if I'm wrong, but the format is primarily focused for 8 bit systems with 16bit addressing. I'm sure it can handle 16 bit (the PIC assembler outputs 16 bit data in intel format) but the overall format just looks natural in an 8 bit system.

                        You're right, but it's extensible. I use it for ARM development.
                        (32-bit) I've not dug into the nature of the extensions, though; I just
                        use it as an intermediate format.

                        -Dave

                        --
                        Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                        New Kensington, PA
                      • Neil Cherry
                        ... Not sure what to make of this: http://www.willegal.net/scelbi/the8008andScelbi.html It seems to imply that there was Intel Hex around 75 but I m not sure
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jun 16, 2013
                        View Source
                        • 0 Attachment
                          On 06/16/2013 12:40 PM, corey986 wrote:
                          > Thanks. That's helpful.
                          >
                          > Hopefully we can confirm if its 76 or 78, but still that makes it plausible for what I'm
                          > doing. I am writing a monitor for my altair and was deciding if I should include a hex
                          > format load from paper tape or not. I wanted to be period correct for 1975/76.
                          >
                          > Cheers,
                          > Corey
                          >
                          > --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com <mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com>, David
                          > Gesswein <djg@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 01:37:22PM -0000, corey986 wrote:
                          > > > Can't seem to find it using google.
                          > > >
                          > > Yup, hard to find. This pushes it back to 1976 or 1978.
                          > > www.cpm.z80.de/randyfiles/DRI/ASM.pdf. Page 1 says it generates Intel hex
                          > > output.

                          Not sure what to make of this:

                          http://www.willegal.net/scelbi/the8008andScelbi.html

                          It seems to imply that there was Intel Hex around 75 but I'm not sure
                          if I'm reading too much into it.

                          --
                          Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@...
                          http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site
                          http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog
                          Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
                        • B. Degnan
                          ... The 1975 custom ROM order form requires ASR 33 tapes be in the following format: Start character B followed by 8 data characters and end with F.
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jun 16, 2013
                          View Source
                          • 0 Attachment
                            >
                            > Can't seem to find it using google.
                            >
                            > Anyone have an idea? What year for the first 8 bit format?
                            >
                            > Thanks,
                            > Corey
                            >

                            The 1975 custom ROM order form requires ASR 33 tapes be in the following
                            format:
                            Start character B followed by 8 data characters and end with F.
                            BPPPNNNNNFBNNNNNNPPF ...

                            not intel HEX format. But elsewhere -

                            SCELBI Basic was in Intel HEX format, or at least Mike Willigal has a copy
                            in this format. The ISIS system used Intel HEX format, I assume that Intel
                            HEX appeared in 1974-75 on the 8008. Before the S1 / 6800 format
                            probably.

                            http://compusaur.com/Mark8files/as8.html

                            Bill
                          • Mike
                            The SCELBI BASIC on my site, has been recently re-assembled from source listings. I use Intel Hex format primarily because it includes a check byte for every
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jun 17, 2013
                            View Source
                            • 0 Attachment
                              The SCELBI BASIC on my site, has been recently re-assembled from source listings. I use Intel Hex format primarily because it includes a check byte for every record.

                              I'm guessing that someone still may have some old docs for a Data I/O system 19 or earlier programmer. Data I/O supported intel hex from way back, but exactly how far back might be hard to determine.

                              Regards,
                              Mike W.


                              --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "B. Degnan" <billdeg@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > >
                              > > Can't seem to find it using google.
                              > >
                              > > Anyone have an idea? What year for the first 8 bit format?
                              > >
                              > > Thanks,
                              > > Corey
                              > >
                              >
                              > The 1975 custom ROM order form requires ASR 33 tapes be in the following
                              > format:
                              > Start character B followed by 8 data characters and end with F.
                              > BPPPNNNNNFBNNNNNNPPF ...
                              >
                              > not intel HEX format. But elsewhere -
                              >
                              > SCELBI Basic was in Intel HEX format, or at least Mike Willigal has a copy
                              > in this format. The ISIS system used Intel HEX format, I assume that Intel
                              > HEX appeared in 1974-75 on the 8008. Before the S1 / 6800 format
                              > probably.
                              >
                              > http://compusaur.com/Mark8files/as8.html
                              >
                              > Bill
                              >
                            • B. Degnan
                              Other than yours, any 8008 code I have ever seen pre 1976 has been in octal, but not sure what the papertape format would be, but Intel s official format was
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jun 17, 2013
                              View Source
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Other than yours, any 8008 code I have ever seen pre 1976 has been in
                                octal, but not sure what the papertape format would be, but Intel's
                                "official" format was actually IBM 029 punched cards, and alternatively
                                that simple papertape format with the BnnnnnnnnFBnnnnnnnnF, etc format.
                                bd

                                -------- Original Message --------
                                > From: "Mike" <mike@...>
                                > Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 8:15 AM
                                > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: [midatlanticretro] Re: Ok historians. When was the intel hex
                                format introduced...
                                >
                                > The SCELBI BASIC on my site, has been recently re-assembled from source
                                listings. I use Intel Hex format primarily because it includes a check
                                byte for every record.
                                >
                                > I'm guessing that someone still may have some old docs for a Data I/O
                                system 19 or earlier programmer. Data I/O supported intel hex from way
                                back, but exactly how far back might be hard to determine.
                                >
                                > Regards,
                                > Mike W.
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "B. Degnan" <billdeg@...>
                                wrote:
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Can't seem to find it using google.
                                > > >
                                > > > Anyone have an idea? What year for the first 8 bit format?
                                > > >
                                > > > Thanks,
                                > > > Corey
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > > The 1975 custom ROM order form requires ASR 33 tapes be in the
                                following
                                > > format:
                                > > Start character B followed by 8 data characters and end with F.
                                > > BPPPNNNNNFBNNNNNNPPF ...
                                > >
                                > > not intel HEX format. But elsewhere -
                                > >
                                > > SCELBI Basic was in Intel HEX format, or at least Mike Willigal has a
                                copy
                                > > in this format. The ISIS system used Intel HEX format, I assume that
                                Intel
                                > > HEX appeared in 1974-75 on the 8008. Before the S1 / 6800 format
                                > > probably.
                                > >
                                > > http://compusaur.com/Mark8files/as8.html
                                > >
                                > > Bill
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • B. Degnan
                                ... hex format introduced... ... I should clarify - The Intel manual s format in 1975, for ordering ROMs was 029 punched card format. The alternative is a
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jun 17, 2013
                                View Source
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  -------- Original Message --------
                                  > From: "B. Degnan" <billdeg@...>
                                  > Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 8:59 AM
                                  > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: re: [midatlanticretro] Re: Ok historians. When was the intel
                                  hex format introduced...
                                  >
                                  > Other than yours, any 8008 code I have ever seen pre 1976 has been in
                                  > octal, but not sure what the papertape format would be, but Intel's
                                  > "official" format was actually IBM 029 punched cards, and alternatively
                                  > that simple papertape format with the BnnnnnnnnFBnnnnnnnnF, etc format.
                                  > bd
                                  >

                                  I should clarify - The Intel manual's format in 1975, for ordering ROMs was
                                  029 punched card format. The alternative is a papertape with the
                                  BnnnnnnnnFBnnnnnnnnF format, containing the entire 1024 bytes in total for
                                  the ePROM.

                                  bd
                                • Mike
                                  Yes, all classical 8008 code that I ve seen, is displayed to the user in octal. However when it comes to I/O, things are different. For instance, the
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jun 17, 2013
                                  View Source
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Yes, all classical 8008 code that I've seen, is displayed to the user in octal. However when it comes to I/O, things are different. For instance, the SCELBI tape interface is designed to read and write a 4bit nibbles at a time. All the TTY interface code that I've seen is dealing with 8 bit data bytes.

                                    regards,
                                    Mike W.

                                    --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "B. Degnan" <billdeg@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > -------- Original Message --------
                                    > > From: "B. Degnan" <billdeg@...>
                                    > > Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 8:59 AM
                                    > > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Subject: re: [midatlanticretro] Re: Ok historians. When was the intel
                                    > hex format introduced...
                                    > >
                                    > > Other than yours, any 8008 code I have ever seen pre 1976 has been in
                                    > > octal, but not sure what the papertape format would be, but Intel's
                                    > > "official" format was actually IBM 029 punched cards, and alternatively
                                    > > that simple papertape format with the BnnnnnnnnFBnnnnnnnnF, etc format.
                                    > > bd
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > I should clarify - The Intel manual's format in 1975, for ordering ROMs was
                                    > 029 punched card format. The alternative is a papertape with the
                                    > BnnnnnnnnFBnnnnnnnnF format, containing the entire 1024 bytes in total for
                                    > the ePROM.
                                    >
                                    > bd
                                    >
                                  • B. Degnan
                                    My instinct is that early 8008/8080 used the motorola S format tapes in homebrew environments, while Intel was switching over to their own Intel Hex format
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Jun 17, 2013
                                    View Source
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      My instinct is that early 8008/8080 used the motorola S format tapes in
                                      homebrew environments, while Intel was switching over to their own Intel
                                      Hex format tapes to replace the punchcard format they had been using. They
                                      probably could not use the motorola format for legal reasons, but they
                                      probably wanted to.
                                      bd

                                      -------- Original Message --------
                                      > From: "Mike" <mike@...>
                                      > Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 10:37 AM
                                      > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: [midatlanticretro] Re: Ok historians. When was the intel hex
                                      format introduced...
                                      >
                                      > Yes, all classical 8008 code that I've seen, is displayed to the user in
                                      octal. However when it comes to I/O, things are different. For instance,
                                      the SCELBI tape interface is designed to read and write a 4bit nibbles at a
                                      time. All the TTY interface code that I've seen is dealing with 8 bit data
                                      bytes.
                                      >
                                      > regards,
                                      > Mike W.
                                      >
                                      > --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "B. Degnan" <billdeg@...>
                                      wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > -------- Original Message --------
                                      > > > From: "B. Degnan" <billdeg@...>
                                      > > > Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 8:59 AM
                                      > > > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > Subject: re: [midatlanticretro] Re: Ok historians. When was the
                                      intel
                                      > > hex format introduced...
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Other than yours, any 8008 code I have ever seen pre 1976 has been in

                                      > > > octal, but not sure what the papertape format would be, but Intel's
                                      > > > "official" format was actually IBM 029 punched cards, and
                                      alternatively
                                      > > > that simple papertape format with the BnnnnnnnnFBnnnnnnnnF, etc
                                      format.
                                      > > > bd
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > > I should clarify - The Intel manual's format in 1975, for ordering ROMs
                                      was
                                      > > 029 punched card format. The alternative is a papertape with the
                                      > > BnnnnnnnnFBnnnnnnnnF format, containing the entire 1024 bytes in total
                                      for
                                      > > the ePROM.
                                      > >
                                      > > bd
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ------------------------------------
                                      >
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • s100doctor
                                      ... MCS-8 Microcomputer Set, 8008 8-bit Parallel Central Processor Unit, User s Manual - Nov 1973 rev 4 2nd printing All references are to BNPF format, none
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Jun 23, 2013
                                      View Source
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "B. Degnan" <billdeg@...> wrote:
                                        >

                                        > I should clarify - The Intel manual's format in 1975, for ordering ROMs was
                                        > 029 punched card format. The alternative is a papertape with the
                                        > BnnnnnnnnFBnnnnnnnnF format, containing the entire 1024 bytes in total for
                                        > the ePROM.
                                        >

                                        "MCS-8 Microcomputer Set, 8008 8-bit Parallel Central Processor Unit, User's Manual" - Nov 1973 rev 4 2nd printing

                                        All references are to BNPF format, none to any hex format, for paper tapes for either software or PROMs. That's likely what Bill is referring to above. Bill's n's are either P for a high or N for a low, what we would call today 1 and 0 respectively.

                                        from the "Intellec 8/MOD 80 Operator's Manual - preliminary edition" - June 1974

                                        Appendix D- - Hexadecimal program tape format - quote-

                                        The hexadecimal tape format used by the Itellec 8 system is a modified memory image, blocked into discrete records. Each record contains record length, record type, memory address, and check sum information in addition to data. A frame by frame description is as
                                        follows: - end quote

                                        the description is the Intel Hex Record format of
                                        :NNAAAATTDDDDDD...CC as described elsewhere. ROM monitor commands are described elsewhere in the manual, to read or write either BNPF or "hexadecimal format" paper tapes.

                                        I may have more to say about this on my Web site in the future.

                                        Herb Johnson
                                        retrotechnology.com
                                      • s100doctor
                                        ... Specifically the Intellec 8/MOD 80 system. That s the Intellec 8008 system modified to an 8080 CPU and 8080-based ROM monitor. The manual says zero about
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Jun 23, 2013
                                        View Source
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "s100doctor" <hjohnson@...> wrote:
                                          >

                                          > The hexadecimal tape format used by the Itellec 8 system...

                                          Specifically the Intellec 8/MOD 80 system. That's the Intellec 8008 system modified to an 8080 CPU and 8080-based ROM monitor. The manual says zero about 8008's.

                                          Herb
                                        • DougCrawford
                                          ... I was thinking it might be tied to the Intellec development also. I sure wish Gary Kildall was still around; I m sure he could have told us, as I just read
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Jun 30, 2013
                                          View Source
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "B. Degnan" <billdeg@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > My instinct is that early 8008/8080 used the motorola S format tapes in
                                            > homebrew environments, while Intel was switching over to their own Intel
                                            > Hex format tapes to replace the punchcard format they had been using. They
                                            > probably could not use the motorola format for legal reasons, but they
                                            > probably wanted to.
                                            > bd
                                            >
                                            > -------- Original Message --------
                                            > > From: "Mike" <mike@...>
                                            > > Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 10:37 AM
                                            > > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > Subject: [midatlanticretro] Re: Ok historians. When was the intel hex
                                            > format introduced...
                                            > >
                                            > > Yes, all classical 8008 code that I've seen, is displayed to the user in
                                            > octal. However when it comes to I/O, things are different. For instance,
                                            > the SCELBI tape interface is designed to read and write a 4bit nibbles at a
                                            > time. All the TTY interface code that I've seen is dealing with 8 bit data
                                            > bytes.
                                            > >
                                            > > regards,
                                            > > Mike W.
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "B. Degnan" <billdeg@>
                                            > wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > -------- Original Message --------
                                            > > > > From: "B. Degnan" <billdeg@>
                                            > > > > Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 8:59 AM
                                            > > > > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > > > Subject: re: [midatlanticretro] Re: Ok historians. When was the
                                            > intel
                                            > > > hex format introduced...
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Other than yours, any 8008 code I have ever seen pre 1976 has been in
                                            >
                                            > > > > octal, but not sure what the papertape format would be, but Intel's
                                            > > > > "official" format was actually IBM 029 punched cards, and
                                            > alternatively
                                            > > > > that simple papertape format with the BnnnnnnnnFBnnnnnnnnF, etc
                                            > format.
                                            > > > > bd
                                            > > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > I should clarify - The Intel manual's format in 1975, for ordering ROMs
                                            > was
                                            > > > 029 punched card format. The alternative is a papertape with the
                                            > > > BnnnnnnnnFBnnnnnnnnF format, containing the entire 1024 bytes in total
                                            > for
                                            > > > the ePROM.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > bd
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > ------------------------------------
                                            > >
                                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >

                                            I was thinking it might be tied to the Intellec development also.
                                            I sure wish Gary Kildall was still around; I'm sure he could have told us, as I just read he was working with Intel as they developed
                                            the 4004 on forward.
                                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.