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Re: [midatlanticretro] Retro WiFi

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  • David Riley
    ... That would be something like a MAX232, which converts TTL to RS232 levels (it has close cousins for CMOS levels, which you would want for the RPi. - Dave
    Message 1 of 27 , May 20, 2013
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      On May 20, 2013, at 10:11, "B. Degnan" <billdeg@...> wrote:

       

      Wow sounds like fun. I don't have a serial level shifter. What is that?
      I have the Pi and TRS 80 Model 4P with Mont CP/M would love to try this. I
      think I am running a Debian on my RasPI, MAME stuff.

      That would be something like a MAX232, which converts TTL
      to RS232 levels (it has close cousins for CMOS levels, which you
      would want for the RPi.

      - Dave
    • Mike Loewen
      ... I opted for a 6-wire level shifter, in order to play with RTS/CTS flow control. I used this one, based on a SP3232 chip: Ebay 271036807405 Run it off the
      Message 2 of 27 , May 20, 2013
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        On Mon, 20 May 2013, B. Degnan wrote:

        > -------- Original Message --------
        >> From: "Mike Loewen" <mloewen@...>
        >> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 10:01 PM
        >> To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
        >> Subject: [midatlanticretro] Retro WiFi
        >>
        >> A few weeks ago, we were speculating on the possibility of using a
        >> Raspberry Pi, a serial level shifter and a USB wireless dongle to get
        >> vintage systems online. I'm happy to report that the proof of concept is
        >
        >> successful. I'm typing this on a stock TRS-80 Model 4P, running IMP 2.45
        >
        >> under Montezuma Micro CP/M. There are some problems to be worked out, as
        >
        >> I'm seeing some weird echo effects, despite the serial setting being
        >> correct. I'll update the group as I continue testing. With this
        >> configuration, it's also possible to connect via 100BaseT.
        >>
        >>
        >
        > Wow sounds like fun. I don't have a serial level shifter. What is that?
        > I have the Pi and TRS 80 Model 4P with Mont CP/M would love to try this. I
        > think I am running a Debian on my RasPI, MAME stuff.

        I opted for a 6-wire level shifter, in order to play with RTS/CTS flow
        control. I used this one, based on a SP3232 chip:

        Ebay 271036807405

        Run it off the 3.3V supply pin. You can solder headers to the Raspi
        2.0 board to get access to RTS and CTS.

        The wireless adapter is an Edimax EW-7811un. Don't skimp on the power
        supply for the Pi - get a 2A supply such as used for the Nexus 7 tablet.
        Underpowered supplies will give you no end of grief.


        Mike Loewen mloewen@...
        Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
      • Vince Fleming
        I m not a hardware guy, per se, but wouldn t a USB- serial cable work just as well, if not better? ________________________________ From:
        Message 3 of 27 , May 20, 2013
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          I'm not a hardware guy, per se, but wouldn't a USB->serial cable work just as well, if not better?

           

           


          From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of B. Degnan [billdeg@...]
          Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 10:24 AM
          To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: re: [midatlanticretro] Retro WiFi

           

          >
          > A few weeks ago, we were speculating on the possibility of using a
          > Raspberry Pi, a serial level shifter and a USB wireless dongle to get
          > vintage systems online. I'm happy to report that the proof of concept is

          > successful.

          <snip>

          Serial Level Shifter
          http://www.bitbox.co.uk/product/rs232-serial-level-shifter/

        • Cory Smelosky
          ... Completely true. ;) ... -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments
          Message 4 of 27 , May 20, 2013
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            On Mon, 20 May 2013, Kelly D. Leavitt wrote:

            > From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Cory Smelosky
            > Sent: Sun 5/19/2013 9:41 PM
            >
            >> I'm betting not at 100Base-T speeds, though. ;)
            >
            > Just because water comes out of a fire hose doesn't mean you can drink from it ;)
            >

            Completely true. ;)

            >
            > Kelly
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >

            --
            Cory Smelosky
            http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff
            http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments
          • Mike Loewen
            For one thing, I want the ability to see boot messages from the serial console port, which (as I recall) isn t an option when plugging a USB serial cable
            Message 5 of 27 , May 20, 2013
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              For one thing, I want the ability to see boot messages from the serial
              console port, which (as I recall) isn't an option when plugging a
              USB<->serial cable into one of the Pi's USB ports. For another, the
              serial port is already there on the Pi, it just requires a level shifter
              to make it useful.

              On Mon, 20 May 2013, Vince Fleming wrote:

              > I'm not a hardware guy, per se, but wouldn't a USB->serial cable work just as well, if not better?
              > ________________________________
              > From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of B. Degnan [billdeg@...]
              > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 10:24 AM
              > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: re: [midatlanticretro] Retro WiFi
              >
              >>
              >> A few weeks ago, we were speculating on the possibility of using a
              >> Raspberry Pi, a serial level shifter and a USB wireless dongle to get
              >> vintage systems online. I'm happy to report that the proof of concept is
              >
              >> successful.
              > <snip>
              >
              > Serial Level Shifter
              > http://www.bitbox.co.uk/product/rs232-serial-level-shifter/

              Mike Loewen mloewen@...
              Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
            • Vince Fleming
              Ah - I thought you said you were trying to get a vintage system online. I guess I missed the part about monitoring the Pi over Serial...
              Message 6 of 27 , May 20, 2013
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                Ah - I thought you said you were trying to get a vintage system online.   I guess I missed the part about monitoring the Pi over Serial...

                 

                 


                From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Mike Loewen [mloewen@...]
                Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:37 PM
                To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Retro WiFi

                 


                For one thing, I want the ability to see boot messages from the serial
                console port, which (as I recall) isn't an option when plugging a
                USB<->serial cable into one of the Pi's USB ports. For another, the
                serial port is already there on the Pi, it just requires a level shifter
                to make it useful.

                On Mon, 20 May 2013, Vince Fleming wrote:

                > I'm not a hardware guy, per se, but wouldn't a USB->serial cable work just as well, if not better?
                > ________________________________
                > From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of B. Degnan [billdeg@...]
                > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 10:24 AM
                > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: re: [midatlanticretro] Retro WiFi
                >
                >>
                >> A few weeks ago, we were speculating on the possibility of using a
                >> Raspberry Pi, a serial level shifter and a USB wireless dongle to get
                >> vintage systems online. I'm happy to report that the proof of concept is
                >
                >> successful.
                > <snip>
                >
                > Serial Level Shifter
                > http://www.bitbox.co.uk/product/rs232-serial-level-shifter/

                Mike Loewen mloewen@...
                Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/

              • Mike Loewen
                I am trying to get vintage systems online, but I also want the ability to see the boot messages. ... Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology
                Message 7 of 27 , May 20, 2013
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                  I am trying to get vintage systems online, but I also want the ability
                  to see the boot messages.

                  On Mon, 20 May 2013, Vince Fleming wrote:

                  > Ah - I thought you said you were trying to get a vintage system online. I guess I missed the part about monitoring the Pi over Serial...
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Mike Loewen [mloewen@...]
                  > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:37 PM
                  > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Retro WiFi
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > For one thing, I want the ability to see boot messages from the serial
                  > console port, which (as I recall) isn't an option when plugging a
                  > USB<->serial cable into one of the Pi's USB ports. For another, the
                  > serial port is already there on the Pi, it just requires a level shifter
                  > to make it useful.
                  >
                  > On Mon, 20 May 2013, Vince Fleming wrote:
                  >
                  >> I'm not a hardware guy, per se, but wouldn't a USB->serial cable work just as well, if not better?
                  >> ________________________________
                  >> From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com> [midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com>] on behalf of B. Degnan [billdeg@...<mailto:billdeg%40degnanco.com>]
                  >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 10:24 AM
                  >> To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com>
                  >> Subject: re: [midatlanticretro] Retro WiFi
                  >>
                  >>>
                  >>> A few weeks ago, we were speculating on the possibility of using a
                  >>> Raspberry Pi, a serial level shifter and a USB wireless dongle to get
                  >>> vintage systems online. I'm happy to report that the proof of concept is
                  >>
                  >>> successful.
                  >> <snip>
                  >>
                  >> Serial Level Shifter
                  >> http://www.bitbox.co.uk/product/rs232-serial-level-shifter/
                  >
                  > Mike Loewen mloewen@...<mailto:mloewen%40cpumagic.scol.pa.us>
                  > Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  Mike Loewen mloewen@...
                  Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                • Vince Fleming
                  I just plugged a monitor (well, actually my TV) into the HDMI port and watched it boot. You can use a USB keyboard and mouse, too. Of course, if you haven t
                  Message 8 of 27 , May 20, 2013
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                    I just plugged a monitor (well, actually my TV) into the HDMI port and watched it boot.   You can use a USB keyboard and mouse, too.

                     

                    Of course, if you haven't got an HDMI monitor or TV...  that might be a problem.  :)

                     


                    From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Mike Loewen [mloewen@...]
                    Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 2:00 PM
                    To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Retro WiFi

                     


                    I am trying to get vintage systems online, but I also want the ability
                    to see the boot messages.

                    On Mon, 20 May 2013, Vince Fleming wrote:

                    > Ah - I thought you said you were trying to get a vintage system online. I guess I missed the part about monitoring the Pi over Serial...
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Mike Loewen [mloewen@...]
                    > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:37 PM
                    > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Retro WiFi
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > For one thing, I want the ability to see boot messages from the serial
                    > console port, which (as I recall) isn't an option when plugging a
                    > USB<->serial cable into one of the Pi's USB ports. For another, the
                    > serial port is already there on the Pi, it just requires a level shifter
                    > to make it useful.
                    >
                    > On Mon, 20 May 2013, Vince Fleming wrote:
                    >
                    >> I'm not a hardware guy, per se, but wouldn't a USB->serial cable work just as well, if not better?
                    >> ________________________________
                    >> From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com> [midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com>] on behalf of B. Degnan [billdeg@...<mailto:billdeg%40degnanco.com>]
                    >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 10:24 AM
                    >> To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com>
                    >> Subject: re: [midatlanticretro] Retro WiFi
                    >>
                    >>>
                    >>> A few weeks ago, we were speculating on the possibility of using a
                    >>> Raspberry Pi, a serial level shifter and a USB wireless dongle to get
                    >>> vintage systems online. I'm happy to report that the proof of concept is
                    >>
                    >>> successful.
                    >> <snip>
                    >>
                    >> Serial Level Shifter
                    >> http://www.bitbox.co.uk/product/rs232-serial-level-shifter/
                    >
                    > Mike Loewen mloewen@...<mailto:mloewen%40cpumagic.scol.pa.us>
                    > Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    Mike Loewen mloewen@...
                    Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/

                  • Cory Smelosky
                    ... Doesn t the Pi have component video, too? ... -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments
                    Message 9 of 27 , May 20, 2013
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                      On Mon, 20 May 2013, Vince Fleming wrote:

                      >
                      >
                      > I just plugged a monitor (well, actually my TV) into the HDMI port and watched it boot.   You can use a USB keyboard and mouse, too.
                      >
                      >  
                      >
                      > Of course, if you haven't got an HDMI monitor or TV...  that might be a problem.  :)
                      >

                      Doesn't the Pi have component video, too?

                      >  
                      >
                      > _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
                      > From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Mike Loewen [mloewen@...]
                      > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 2:00 PM
                      > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Retro WiFi
                      >
                      >  
                      >
                      >
                      > I am trying to get vintage systems online, but I also want the ability
                      > to see the boot messages.
                      >
                      > On Mon, 20 May 2013, Vince Fleming wrote:
                      >
                      > > Ah - I thought you said you were trying to get a vintage system online. I guess I missed the part about monitoring the Pi over Serial...
                      > >
                      > > ________________________________
                      > > From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Mike Loewen [mloewen@...]
                      > > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:37 PM
                      > > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Retro WiFi
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > For one thing, I want the ability to see boot messages from the serial
                      > > console port, which (as I recall) isn't an option when plugging a
                      > > USB<->serial cable into one of the Pi's USB ports. For another, the
                      > > serial port is already there on the Pi, it just requires a level shifter
                      > > to make it useful.
                      > >
                      > > On Mon, 20 May 2013, Vince Fleming wrote:
                      > >
                      > >> I'm not a hardware guy, per se, but wouldn't a USB->serial cable work just as well, if not better?
                      > >> ________________________________
                      > >> From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com> [midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com>] on
                      > behalf of B. Degnan [billdeg@...<mailto:billdeg%40degnanco.com>]
                      > >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 10:24 AM
                      > >> To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > >> Subject: re: [midatlanticretro] Retro WiFi
                      > >>
                      > >>>
                      > >>> A few weeks ago, we were speculating on the possibility of using a
                      > >>> Raspberry Pi, a serial level shifter and a USB wireless dongle to get
                      > >>> vintage systems online. I'm happy to report that the proof of concept is
                      > >>
                      > >>> successful.
                      > >> <snip>
                      > >>
                      > >> Serial Level Shifter
                      > >> http://www.bitbox.co.uk/product/rs232-serial-level-shifter/
                      > >
                      > > Mike Loewen mloewen@...<mailto:mloewen%40cpumagic.scol.pa.us>
                      > > Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > Mike Loewen mloewen@...
                      > Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      --
                      Cory Smelosky
                      http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff
                      http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments
                    • Vince Fleming
                      Not component, which is RGB, but it does also have a standard analog RCA video output. (the yellow color-coded one) I don t know what resolution you can get
                      Message 10 of 27 , May 20, 2013
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                        Not component, which is RGB, but it does also have a standard analog RCA video output.  (the yellow color-coded one)   I don't know what resolution you can get with it.  The HDMI is full 1080.

                         


                        From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Cory Smelosky [b4@...]
                        Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 2:29 PM
                        To: Vince Fleming
                        Cc: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Retro WiFi

                         

                        On Mon, 20 May 2013, Vince Fleming wrote:

                        >
                        >
                        > I just plugged a monitor (well, actually my TV) into the HDMI port and watched it boot.   You can use a USB keyboard and mouse, too.
                        >
                        >  
                        >
                        > Of course, if you haven't got an HDMI monitor or TV...  that might be a problem.  :)
                        >

                        Doesn't the Pi have component video, too?

                        >  
                        >
                        > __________________________________________________________
                        > From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Mike Loewen [mloewen@...]
                        > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 2:00 PM
                        > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Retro WiFi
                        >
                        >  
                        >
                        >
                        > I am trying to get vintage systems online, but I also want the ability
                        > to see the boot messages.
                        >
                        > On Mon, 20 May 2013, Vince Fleming wrote:
                        >
                        > > Ah - I thought you said you were trying to get a vintage system online. I guess I missed the part about monitoring the Pi over Serial...
                        > >
                        > > ________________________________
                        > > From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Mike Loewen [mloewen@...]
                        > > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:37 PM
                        > > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Retro WiFi
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > For one thing, I want the ability to see boot messages from the serial
                        > > console port, which (as I recall) isn't an option when plugging a
                        > > USB<->serial cable into one of the Pi's USB ports. For another, the
                        > > serial port is already there on the Pi, it just requires a level shifter
                        > > to make it useful.
                        > >
                        > > On Mon, 20 May 2013, Vince Fleming wrote:
                        > >
                        > >> I'm not a hardware guy, per se, but wouldn't a USB->serial cable work just as well, if not better?
                        > >> ________________________________
                        > >> From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com> [midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com>] on
                        > behalf of B. Degnan [billdeg@...<mailto:billdeg%40degnanco.com>]
                        > >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 10:24 AM
                        > >> To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > >> Subject: re: [midatlanticretro] Retro WiFi
                        > >>
                        > >>>
                        > >>> A few weeks ago, we were speculating on the possibility of using a
                        > >>> Raspberry Pi, a serial level shifter and a USB wireless dongle to get
                        > >>> vintage systems online. I'm happy to report that the proof of concept is
                        > >>
                        > >>> successful.
                        > >> <snip>
                        > >>
                        > >> Serial Level Shifter
                        > >> http://www.bitbox.co.uk/product/rs232-serial-level-shifter/
                        > >
                        > > Mike Loewen mloewen@...<mailto:mloewen%40cpumagic.scol.pa.us>
                        > > Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        > Mike Loewen mloewen@...
                        > Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >

                        --
                        Cory Smelosky
                        http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff
                        http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments

                      • Mike Loewen
                        You may have missed the original conversation about this project. I m going for something which will allow me to connect vintage computers to wireless or
                        Message 11 of 27 , May 20, 2013
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                          You may have missed the original conversation about this project. I'm
                          going for something which will allow me to connect vintage computers to
                          wireless or wired networks. It should be small and flexible. One of
                          these days I'm going to bring my Osborne Vixen to a staff meeting and use
                          it to logon to the wireless network and access email, take notes, and
                          browse the web (via lynx). I'm not going be lugging other monitors, TVs,
                          keyboards or USB hubs with me. I might even hide it inside the Vixen.
                          :-)

                          I don't want this to degenerate into a discussion about the Pi, itself.
                          I'm noting my progress here because others had expressed interest in the
                          concept.


                          On Mon, 20 May 2013, Vince Fleming wrote:

                          > I just plugged a monitor (well, actually my TV) into the HDMI port and watched it boot. You can use a USB keyboard and mouse, too.
                          >
                          > Of course, if you haven't got an HDMI monitor or TV... that might be a problem. :)
                          >
                          > ________________________________
                          > From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Mike Loewen [mloewen@...]
                          > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 2:00 PM
                          > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Retro WiFi
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > I am trying to get vintage systems online, but I also want the ability
                          > to see the boot messages.
                          >
                          > On Mon, 20 May 2013, Vince Fleming wrote:
                          >
                          >> Ah - I thought you said you were trying to get a vintage system online. I guess I missed the part about monitoring the Pi over Serial...
                          >>
                          >> ________________________________
                          >> From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com> [midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com>] on behalf of Mike Loewen [mloewen@...<mailto:mloewen%40cpumagic.scol.pa.us>]
                          >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:37 PM
                          >> To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com>
                          >> Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Retro WiFi
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> For one thing, I want the ability to see boot messages from the serial
                          >> console port, which (as I recall) isn't an option when plugging a
                          >> USB<->serial cable into one of the Pi's USB ports. For another, the
                          >> serial port is already there on the Pi, it just requires a level shifter
                          >> to make it useful.
                          >>
                          >> On Mon, 20 May 2013, Vince Fleming wrote:
                          >>
                          >>> I'm not a hardware guy, per se, but wouldn't a USB->serial cable work just as well, if not better?
                          >>> ________________________________
                          >>> From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com> [midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com>] on behalf of B. Degnan [billdeg@...<mailto:billdeg%40degnanco.com><mailto:billdeg%40degnanco.com>]
                          >>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 10:24 AM
                          >>> To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com>
                          >>> Subject: re: [midatlanticretro] Retro WiFi
                          >>>
                          >>>>
                          >>>> A few weeks ago, we were speculating on the possibility of using a
                          >>>> Raspberry Pi, a serial level shifter and a USB wireless dongle to get
                          >>>> vintage systems online. I'm happy to report that the proof of concept is
                          >>>
                          >>>> successful.
                          >>> <snip>
                          >>>
                          >>> Serial Level Shifter
                          >>> http://www.bitbox.co.uk/product/rs232-serial-level-shifter/
                          >>
                          >> Mike Loewen mloewen@...<mailto:mloewen%40cpumagic.scol.pa.us><mailto:mloewen%40cpumagic.scol.pa.us>
                          >> Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
                          > Mike Loewen mloewen@...<mailto:mloewen%40cpumagic.scol.pa.us>
                          > Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          Mike Loewen mloewen@...
                          Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                        • David Riley
                          ... Not much (plug it into a TV and it looks like a VGA text console if you were blind as a bat with tunnel vision). Still, it works, but it also assumes
                          Message 12 of 27 , May 20, 2013
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                            On May 20, 2013, at 14:34, Vince Fleming <vincef@...> wrote:

                             

                            Not component, which is RGB, but it does also have a standard analog RCA video output.  (the yellow color-coded one)   I don't know what resolution you can get with it.  The HDMI is full 1080.

                            Not much (plug it into a TV and it looks like a VGA text console if you were blind as a bat with tunnel vision). Still, it works, but it also assumes you're using an OS that can print the console to the frame buffer; if you're writing your own, it's much quicker off the bat to use the UART.

                            - Dave

                          • Andrew
                            I did something similar with my SBC6120 PDP8 replica. In my case it was to connect to the SBC6120 over WIFI rather than have it call out to the world. It is
                            Message 13 of 27 , May 20, 2013
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                              I did something similar with my SBC6120 PDP8 replica.

                              In my case it was to connect to the SBC6120 over WIFI rather than have it call out to the world.

                              It is based on a TP-Link WR-703N "3G Travel Router". These things are very low cost on eBay and can be flashed to run OpenWRT. They have build in WIFI and a USB port allowing connection of a USB/Serial adaptor (or several if you had a hub).

                              I need to get around to a write up but some pictures here are:

                              The first picture is the carrier board for the SBC CF adaptor but also showing the 703N, the USB/TTL Serial adaptor (small vertical board) and a MAX232 to handle level conversion from the SBC6120. I could have taken TTL serial directly from the SBC6120 but didn't want to change it from the stock configuration. Could also have got a USB/Serial adaptor with level conversion but I used what was in the parts bin.

                              http://www.quicktrip.co.nz/jaqblog/images/BLOG_SBC6120_WIFI_1.jpg

                              And another perspective.

                              http://www.quicktrip.co.nz/jaqblog/images/BLOG_SBC6120_WIFI_2.jpg

                              Mounted on the SBC6120

                              http://www.quicktrip.co.nz/jaqblog/images/BLOG_SBC6120_WIFI_3.jpg

                              And with all the cables in place

                              http://www.quicktrip.co.nz/jaqblog/images/BLOG_SBC6120_WIFI_4.jpg

                              Nothing really fancy here.... just OpenWRT running SER2NET which makes the SBC available to WIFI clients using TELNET to a specific port. I run the 703N as an access point so I am not tied to the home network if I want to take the machine out to demo.

                              The 703N's are cheap enough that I will look at doing this for some of the other machines.... the 11/04 being the first candidate when I get it running.

                              Enjoy following the threads here. I am based in New Zealand but my company headquarters is in Fairfield NJ. Next time I visit I will try and make an effort to come and visit the InfoAge Science Center.

                              Regards

                              Andrew

                              --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Mike Loewen <mloewen@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > A few weeks ago, we were speculating on the possibility of using a
                              > Raspberry Pi, a serial level shifter and a USB wireless dongle to get
                              > vintage systems online. I'm happy to report that the proof of concept is
                              > successful. I'm typing this on a stock TRS-80 Model 4P, running IMP 2.45
                              > under Montezuma Micro CP/M. There are some problems to be worked out, as
                              > I'm seeing some weird echo effects, despite the serial setting being
                              > correct. I'll update the group as I continue testing. With this
                              > configuration, it's also possible to connect via 100BaseT.
                              >
                            • Evan Koblentz
                              ... Welcome to the group. Email me whenever you d like a museum tour.
                              Message 14 of 27 , May 21, 2013
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                                > Enjoy following the threads here. I am based in New Zealand but my company headquarters is in Fairfield NJ. Next time I visit I will try and make an effort to come and visit the InfoAge Science Center.
                                >
                                > Regards
                                >
                                > Andrew


                                Welcome to the group. Email me whenever you'd like a museum tour.
                              • s100doctor
                                ... I can barely connect to MARCH Yahoo email traffic! ;) But this subject is of interest to me. NOtes to little purpose: 1)
                                Message 15 of 27 , May 21, 2013
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                                  --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Mike Loewen <mloewen@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > A few weeks ago, we were speculating on the possibility of using a
                                  > Raspberry Pi, a serial level shifter and a USB wireless dongle to get
                                  > vintage systems online. I'm happy to report that the proof of concept is
                                  > successful. I'm typing this on a stock TRS-80 Model 4P, running IMP 2.45
                                  > under Montezuma Micro CP/M. There are some problems to be worked out, as
                                  > I'm seeing some weird echo effects, despite the serial setting being
                                  > correct. I'll update the group as I continue testing. With this
                                  > configuration, it's also possible to connect via 100BaseT.
                                  >

                                  I can barely "connect" to MARCH Yahoo email traffic! ;) But this subject is of interest to me. NOtes to little purpose:

                                  1) http://www.classiccmp.org/cpmarchives/cpm/Software/WalnutCD/beehive/comms/
                                  seems to have IMP software. MIke posted previously another link at

                                  http://www.retroarchive.org/cpm/cdrom/CPM/IMP/

                                  All code....no docs....situation normal.... Seems to be one of many flavors of communications programs in the 1970's CP/M and related worlds. Googling for "IMP" isn't terribly productive. I don't know if IMP supports any particular network protocols or stacks.

                                  2) I presume Mike Loewen will make up a Web page on his site, when he's stabilized his project. We can all look there for the details, hardware, code, when he presumably posts the link here. I find discussing technical details in a Yahoo group a kind of exercise in futility.

                                  These are hints of course, suggestions. Congrats to Mike.

                                  Herb Johnson
                                • Mike Loewen
                                  ... Herb: IMP doesn t support any network procotols. I m simply using the vintage computer as a terminal to login to a shell on the Pi. From there, I can SSH
                                  Message 16 of 27 , May 22, 2013
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                                    On Wed, 22 May 2013, s100doctor wrote:

                                    > --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Mike Loewen <mloewen@...> wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> A few weeks ago, we were speculating on the possibility of using a
                                    >> Raspberry Pi, a serial level shifter and a USB wireless dongle to get
                                    >> vintage systems online. I'm happy to report that the proof of concept is
                                    >> successful. I'm typing this on a stock TRS-80 Model 4P, running IMP 2.45
                                    >> under Montezuma Micro CP/M. There are some problems to be worked out, as
                                    >> I'm seeing some weird echo effects, despite the serial setting being
                                    >> correct. I'll update the group as I continue testing. With this
                                    >> configuration, it's also possible to connect via 100BaseT.
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    > I can barely "connect" to MARCH Yahoo email traffic! ;) But this subject is of interest to me. NOtes to little purpose:
                                    >
                                    > 1) http://www.classiccmp.org/cpmarchives/cpm/Software/WalnutCD/beehive/comms/
                                    > seems to have IMP software. MIke posted previously another link at
                                    >
                                    > http://www.retroarchive.org/cpm/cdrom/CPM/IMP/
                                    >
                                    > All code....no docs....situation normal.... Seems to be one of many
                                    > flavors of communications programs in the 1970's CP/M and related
                                    > worlds. Googling for "IMP" isn't terribly productive. I don't know if
                                    > IMP supports any particular network protocols or stacks.

                                    Herb:

                                    IMP doesn't support any network procotols. I'm simply using the
                                    vintage computer as a terminal to login to a shell on the Pi. From there,
                                    I can SSH into other systems to do email, or use Lynx to do text-only web
                                    browsing. It's a bit of a cheat, since the Pi is enormously more powerful
                                    than the vintage computer, but I'm just looking for a quick, portable and
                                    flexible way to connect to the network.

                                    If you look in the IMP245.LBR library at the link I listed, you'll find
                                    the IMP distribution, including the docs.

                                    > 2) I presume Mike Loewen will make up a Web page on his site, when he's
                                    > stabilized his project. We can all look there for the details, hardware,
                                    > code, when he presumably posts the link here. I find discussing
                                    > technical details in a Yahoo group a kind of exercise in futility.

                                    Will do (eventually). :-)


                                    Mike Loewen mloewen@...
                                    Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                                  • Dan Roganti
                                    ... Mike, From an earlier thread, I recall you mentioned something about a requirement to have a secure protocol to make a connection at your facility - I
                                    Message 17 of 27 , May 22, 2013
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                                      On 5/22/2013 7:27 AM, Mike Loewen wrote:
                                      > Herb:
                                      > IMP doesn't support any network procotols. I'm simply using the
                                      > vintage computer as a terminal to login to a shell on the Pi. From
                                      > there, I can SSH into other systems to do email, or use Lynx to do
                                      > text-only web browsing. It's a bit of a cheat, since the Pi is
                                      > enormously more powerful than the vintage computer, but I'm just
                                      > looking for a quick, portable and flexible way to connect to the
                                      > network. If you look in the IMP245.LBR library at the link I listed,
                                      > you'll find the IMP distribution, including the docs.

                                      Mike,

                                      From an earlier thread, I recall you mentioned something about a
                                      requirement to have a secure protocol to make a connection at your
                                      facility - I don't recall which ones you mentioned last time, but I
                                      remember it was in that thread. Because we noticed the ordinary ethernet
                                      converters which are sold for vintage computers at various places don't
                                      normally support these additional protocols.

                                      I think for typical users on vintage computers at home with a Lan, where
                                      we have the standard ethernet controllers such as the basic CS9800 or
                                      the latest from Wiznet, they do the job for many users. And they already
                                      have the various internet clients written for some of them, email, irc,
                                      telnet, www - with only ascii of course. And the network drivers are
                                      also running on their computer alone. It would be nice to have support
                                      for things such as ssh too.

                                      But I still wonder if you can add these secure protocols to the network
                                      drivers directly on our vintage computers. Would those secure protocols
                                      be very compute intensive to cause a lag in the response that you can't
                                      run on a Z80 ?

                                      As for the WiFi option, I use a simple Lan to WiFi converter from
                                      Trendnet for about $30. I'm diving into some network gaming for the C64,
                                      using the drivers they have already, I know I don't need these
                                      additional protocols. And I'm forecasting the work done here will be
                                      portable to whichever vintage platform - to take advantage of the
                                      multiplayer arena. Possibly even making it universal, so an Apple II can
                                      connect with an Atari 800, and so forth, to widen the support for
                                      multiplayer.

                                      BTW, did you see the S-100 hardware crypto board on eb@y about a month
                                      ago, the Data Star Encryptor ENC 100-1. I really wanted to get that.

                                      Dan
                                    • Mike Loewen
                                      ... Right, I had some very specific requirements for this, including the ability to do WPA2-Enterprise with TTLS and PAP connections (at work). I looked at a
                                      Message 18 of 27 , May 22, 2013
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                                        On Wed, 22 May 2013, Dan Roganti wrote:

                                        > On 5/22/2013 7:27 AM, Mike Loewen wrote:
                                        >> Herb:
                                        >> IMP doesn't support any network procotols. I'm simply using the
                                        >> vintage computer as a terminal to login to a shell on the Pi. From
                                        >> there, I can SSH into other systems to do email, or use Lynx to do
                                        >> text-only web browsing. It's a bit of a cheat, since the Pi is
                                        >> enormously more powerful than the vintage computer, but I'm just
                                        >> looking for a quick, portable and flexible way to connect to the
                                        >> network. If you look in the IMP245.LBR library at the link I listed,
                                        >> you'll find the IMP distribution, including the docs.
                                        >
                                        > Mike,
                                        >
                                        > From an earlier thread, I recall you mentioned something about a
                                        > requirement to have a secure protocol to make a connection at your
                                        > facility - I don't recall which ones you mentioned last time, but I
                                        > remember it was in that thread. Because we noticed the ordinary ethernet
                                        > converters which are sold for vintage computers at various places don't
                                        > normally support these additional protocols.

                                        Right, I had some very specific requirements for this, including the
                                        ability to do WPA2-Enterprise with TTLS and PAP connections (at work). I
                                        looked at a lot of serial<->ethernet convertors, but didn't find anything
                                        in the under $100 range that would do the job. For my breadboard solution
                                        (Pi, Edimax EW-7811Un, MAX3232), I don't have to write any drivers or
                                        clients.

                                        > I think for typical users on vintage computers at home with a Lan, where
                                        > we have the standard ethernet controllers such as the basic CS9800 or
                                        > the latest from Wiznet, they do the job for many users. And they already
                                        > have the various internet clients written for some of them, email, irc,
                                        > telnet, www - with only ascii of course. And the network drivers are
                                        > also running on their computer alone. It would be nice to have support
                                        > for things such as ssh too.
                                        >
                                        > But I still wonder if you can add these secure protocols to the network
                                        > drivers directly on our vintage computers. Would those secure protocols
                                        > be very compute intensive to cause a lag in the response that you can't
                                        > run on a Z80 ?

                                        I would be pleasantly surprised if you could get a usable protocol
                                        like SSH running on a Z80. For example, I installed a 3rd party product
                                        on my VAX 4000/300 which supports SSHv2. It took in excess of 1 MINUTE
                                        for the initial handshake, but was then not too painful for the subsequent
                                        communication.

                                        > As for the WiFi option, I use a simple Lan to WiFi converter from
                                        > Trendnet for about $30. I'm diving into some network gaming for the C64,
                                        > using the drivers they have already, I know I don't need these
                                        > additional protocols. And I'm forecasting the work done here will be
                                        > portable to whichever vintage platform - to take advantage of the
                                        > multiplayer arena. Possibly even making it universal, so an Apple II can
                                        > connect with an Atari 800, and so forth, to widen the support for
                                        > multiplayer.

                                        Which Trendnet adapter are you using?

                                        > BTW, did you see the S-100 hardware crypto board on eb@y about a month
                                        > ago, the Data Star Encryptor ENC 100-1. I really wanted to get that.

                                        I did not.


                                        Mike Loewen mloewen@...
                                        Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                                      • s100doctor
                                        ... Thanks for the explanation and reference to docs. Several years ago, before Linux embedded computers were available, and even before embedded processor
                                        Message 19 of 27 , May 22, 2013
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                                          --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Mike Loewen <mloewen@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Herb:
                                          >
                                          > IMP doesn't support any network procotols. I'm simply using the
                                          > vintage computer as a terminal to login to a shell on the Pi. From there,
                                          > I can SSH into other systems to do email, or use Lynx to do text-only web
                                          > browsing. It's a bit of a cheat, since the Pi is enormously more powerful
                                          > than the vintage computer, but I'm just looking for a quick, portable and
                                          > flexible way to connect to the network.

                                          Thanks for the explanation and reference to docs. Several years ago, before Linux embedded computers were available, and even before embedded processor "ethernet boards" were available, there was all kinds of chatter and efforts to "run CP/M on the Internet". I gathered up the usual suspects and wrote a Web page about the efforts:

                                          http://www.retrotechnology.com/dri/cpm_tcpip.html

                                          ..the open question being, could a CP/M-class computer "handle" a
                                          TCP/IP "stack"? The answer was "yes, it DID", as part of packet radio in the radio amateur community. Other micros like C64's were used. Later, packet radio "modems" were built with Z80-class technology; then 8035-class microcontrollers. You can still buy TNC's cheap at hamfests, I have a few lying around somewhere.

                                          But around 2009 when I wrote the note, the "ethernet on a chip" products appeared and those were put to use. Now, it appears, one can just buy "Linux on a chip" and it does it all.

                                          I'm a little sad that the vintage computer is mostly used as a terminal for "internet" access. But, it works both ways, so in principle one can use the $35 Linux bug as an Internet server and provide Web-to-console-port access to, well, whatever vintage computer has a serial port. I suppose with more effort, the Rasp Pi could more robustly operate a vintage computer, micro or mini. Then Bill Degnan's boast would become a reality: "email sent from my PDP-8".

                                          Oh, that I'll live long enough....

                                          Herb Johnson
                                          not yet PDPetering out
                                        • Dan Roganti
                                          On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Mike Loewen ... This one, there s several others too
                                          Message 20 of 27 , May 23, 2013
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                                            On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Mike Loewen <mloewen@...> wrote:

                                                Which Trendnet adapter are you using?



                                            This one, there's several others too
                                             
                                          • Bob Schwier
                                            I did miss the original discussion.  Did you solve the issues and if so how? bs   You may have missed the original conversation about this project. I m
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Jun 11, 2013
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                                              I did miss the original discussion.  Did you solve the issues and if so how?
                                              bs
                                               


                                              You may have missed the original conversation about this project. I'm
                                              going for something which will allow me to connect vintage computers to
                                              wireless or wired networks. It should be small and flexible. One of
                                              these days I'm going to bring my Osborne Vixen to a staff meeting and use
                                              it to logon to the wireless network and access email, take notes, and
                                              browse the web (via lynx). I'm not going be lugging other monitors, TVs,
                                              keyboards or USB hubs with me. I might even hide it inside the Vixen.
                                              :-)

                                              I don't want this to degenerate into a discussion about the Pi, itself.
                                              I'm noting my progress here because others had expressed interest in the
                                              concept.

                                              On Mon, 20 May 2013, Vince Fleming wrote:

                                              > I just plugged a monitor (well, actually my TV) into the HDMI port and watched it boot. You can use a USB keyboard and mouse, too.
                                              >
                                              > Of course, if you haven't got an HDMI monitor or TV... that might be a problem. :)
                                              >
                                              > ________________________________
                                              > From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Mike Loewen [mloewen@...]
                                              > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 2:00 PM
                                              > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Retro WiFi
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > I am trying to get vintage systems online, but I also want the ability
                                              > to see the boot messages.
                                              >
                                              > On Mon, 20 May 2013, Vince Fleming wrote:
                                              >
                                              >> Ah - I thought you said you were trying to get a vintage system online. I guess I missed the part about monitoring the Pi over Serial...
                                              >>
                                              >> ________________________________
                                              >> From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com> [midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com>] on behalf of Mike Loewen [mloewen@...<mailto:mloewen%40cpumagic.scol.pa.us>]
                                              >> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:37 PM
                                              >> To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com>
                                              >> Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Retro WiFi
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> For one thing, I want the ability to see boot messages from the serial
                                              >> console port, which (as I recall) isn't an option when plugging a
                                              >> USB<->serial cable into one of the Pi's USB ports. For another, the
                                              >> serial port is already there on the Pi, it just requires a level shifter
                                              >> to make it useful.
                                              >>
                                              >> On Mon, 20 May 2013, Vince Fleming wrote:
                                              >>
                                              >>> I'm not a hardware guy, per se, but wouldn't a USB->serial cable work just as well, if not better?
                                              >>> ________________________________
                                              >>> From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com> [midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com>] on behalf of B. Degnan [billdeg@...<mailto:billdeg%40degnanco.com><mailto:billdeg%40degnanco.com>]
                                              >>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 10:24 AM
                                              >>> To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com>
                                              >>> Subject: re: [midatlanticretro] Retro WiFi
                                              >>>
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> A few weeks ago, we were speculating on the possibility of using a
                                              >>>> Raspberry Pi, a serial level shifter and a USB wireless dongle to get
                                              >>>> vintage systems online. I'm happy to report that the proof of concept is
                                              >>>
                                              >>>> successful.
                                              >>> <snip>
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Serial Level Shifter
                                              >>> http://www.bitbox.co.uk/product/rs232-serial-level-shifter/
                                              >>
                                              >> Mike Loewen mloewen@...<mailto:mloewen%40cpumagic.scol.pa.us><mailto:mloewen%40cpumagic.scol.pa.us>
                                              >> Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >
                                              > Mike Loewen mloewen@...<mailto:mloewen%40cpumagic.scol.pa.us>
                                              > Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >

                                              Mike Loewen mloewen@...
                                              Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/

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