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Working on MARCH systems at the event ...

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  • Evan Koblentz
    Just a note to remind everyone it s cool to borrow MARCH-owned systems if you just want to practice working on something specific, or if we have something that
    Message 1 of 25 , May 10, 2013
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      Just a note to remind everyone it's cool to borrow MARCH-owned systems
      if you just want to practice working on something specific, or if we
      have something that you really want to start restoring. We have a lot,
      you know. :) I couldn't possibly list everything; feel free to ask me
      if ya'll have something specific in mind.

      Also, since there are 220V outlets in the event room, I hope we can test
      some things that we haven't ever tried before ....
    • David Gesswein
      ... Trying to plan for next weekend. The tape drive isn t till the second day and I hope the teltype isn t going to be too difficult so what else would MARCH
      Message 2 of 25 , May 12, 2013
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        On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 01:15:47PM -0400, Evan Koblentz wrote:
        > Just a note to remind everyone it's cool to borrow MARCH-owned systems
        > if you just want to practice working on something specific, or if we
        > have something that you really want to start restoring. We have a lot,
        > you know. :) I couldn't possibly list everything; feel free to ask me
        > if ya'll have something specific in mind.
        >
        > Also, since there are 220V outlets in the event room, I hope we can test
        > some things that we haven't ever tried before ....
        >
        Trying to plan for next weekend. The tape drive isn't till the second
        day and I hope the teltype isn't going to be too difficult so what else
        would MARCH desire someone look at?

        You were interested in having more done with the 11/20. You were going to
        do the foam but was anyone else planning to work on it further? If nobody
        else is I can dig up manuals to check it out though since I'm not that
        familiar with 11's it will be learning for me also.

        I can also do more card testing on the 8/E though I think the backplanes
        will be easier if they go home unless you have a place to wash them and
        air compressor to blow the gunk out. Replating the tin may be needed to
        have long term reliability.

        Are there other things that I should plan to look at? Proper prep
        makes it go better.
      • Evan Koblentz
        ... That would be good. I d really like to get our Xerox 820 running. I recall that it boots to a memory error message, but the memory is soldered in. ... It s
        Message 3 of 25 , May 12, 2013
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          >> If nobody else is I can dig up manuals to check it out though since I'm not that familiar with 11's it will be learning for me also.

          That would be good. I'd really like to get our Xerox 820 running. I recall that it boots to a memory error message, but the memory is soldered in.

          >> I think the backplanes will be easier if they go home

          It's fine for you to take them home and work on them.

          >> Are there other things that I should plan to look at?

          I will give it some more thought.
        • David Gesswein
          ... Looks like it takes 4116 s. I ll bring some and my desoldering tools. Hopefully the error give enough information to figure out which chip.
          Message 4 of 25 , May 12, 2013
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            On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 04:43:56PM +0000, Evan Koblentz wrote:
            > That would be good. I'd really like to get our Xerox 820 running.
            > I recall that it boots to a memory error message, but the memory is
            > soldered in.
            >
            Looks like it takes 4116's. I'll bring some and my desoldering tools.
            Hopefully the error give enough information to figure out which chip.
          • David Gesswein
            Do you have a set of ASR-33 manuals easily accessible or should I bring mine in case I need them for fixing the punch?
            Message 5 of 25 , May 12, 2013
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              Do you have a set of ASR-33 manuals easily accessible or should I bring
              mine in case I need them for fixing the punch?
            • Evan Koblentz
              ... Not sure if by you you mean MARCH. Ours aren t easily accessible.
              Message 6 of 25 , May 12, 2013
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                > Do you have a set of ASR-33 manuals easily accessible or should I bring
                > mine in case I need them for fixing the punch?


                Not sure if by "you" you mean MARCH. Ours aren't easily accessible.
              • David Comley
                I have a couple of ASR33 manuals to hand. Want me to bring them ? -Dave
                Message 7 of 25 , May 13, 2013
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                  I have a couple of ASR33 manuals to hand. Want me to bring them ?

                  -Dave



                  On May 12, 2013, at 9:50 PM, Evan Koblentz <evan@...> wrote:

                   

                  > Do you have a set of ASR-33 manuals easily accessible or should I bring
                  > mine in case I need them for fixing the punch?

                  Not sure if by "you" you mean MARCH. Ours aren't easily accessible.

                • David Gesswein
                  ... Not needed. I have the manuals. It was to just save hauling stuff if a set was convienent there.
                  Message 8 of 25 , May 13, 2013
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                    On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 08:01:51AM -0400, David Comley wrote:
                    > I have a couple of ASR33 manuals to hand. Want me to bring them ?
                    >
                    Not needed. I have the manuals. It was to just save hauling stuff if a set
                    was convienent there.
                  • Jeffrey Brace
                    ... I would recommend trying to fix any of the non functional (or not fully functional) exhibit computers. Like the Sony, Epson, Xerox. Also the Dec Rainbow
                    Message 9 of 25 , May 13, 2013
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                      > Just a note to remind everyone it's cool to borrow MARCH-owned systems

                      I would recommend trying to fix any of the non functional (or not fully
                      functional) exhibit computers. Like the Sony, Epson, Xerox. Also the Dec
                      Rainbow terminal needs a little cleaning up, Vax Man can explain that. I
                      wonder about the ones in the homebrew room, like the SWTPC, didn't it have a
                      electrical cord problem?

                      It would be awesome if we could have all the exhibit computers working.

                      Jeff B
                    • Evan Koblentz
                      ... The CRT in that terminal isn t worth the effort of taking it apart to clean inside. We have a few more units of the same terminal (I forget the model
                      Message 10 of 25 , May 13, 2013
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                        >> Also the Dec Rainbow terminal needs a little cleaning up

                        The CRT in that terminal isn't worth the effort of taking it apart to clean inside. We have a few more units of the same terminal (I forget the model number -- it's one of the small ones) that we can just swap in.
                      • Dave McGuire
                        ... DEC Rainbow != terminal...are you talking about a VR201 monitor? If so, it likely *is* worth spending some effort on, as VR201s are becoming very scarce.
                        Message 11 of 25 , May 13, 2013
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                          On 05/14/2013 12:29 AM, Evan Koblentz wrote:
                          >>> Also the Dec Rainbow terminal needs a little cleaning up
                          >
                          > The CRT in that terminal isn't worth the effort of taking it apart to clean inside. We have a few more units of the same terminal (I forget the model number -- it's one of the small ones) that we can just swap in.

                          DEC Rainbow != terminal...are you talking about a VR201 monitor? If so, it
                          likely *is* worth spending some effort on, as VR201s are becoming very scarce.

                          Yes, it's standard RS-170 video, so you can get a VR201-requiring system
                          functional with something else, but I mean real VR201s in particular.

                          -Dave

                          --
                          Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                          New Kensington, PA
                        • Evan Koblentz
                          ... likely *is* worth spending some effort on, as VR201s are becoming very scarce. As I said, I don t know the model number. But I didn t mean we should not
                          Message 12 of 25 , May 13, 2013
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                            >> are you talking about a VR201 monitor? If so, it
                            likely *is* worth spending some effort on, as VR201s are becoming very scarce.

                            As I said, I don't know the model number. But I didn't mean we should not repair it at all. I only meant that it's not urgent because I think we have others of the same flavor that are in better condition for the exhibit.
                          • Dave McGuire
                            ... Gotcha, sounds good. The mono monitors for Rainbows (and DEC Professional series, and VT240 terminals) are VR201s, with -A/-B/-C suffices for white, amber,
                            Message 13 of 25 , May 13, 2013
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                              On 05/14/2013 12:45 AM, Evan Koblentz wrote:
                              >>> are you talking about a VR201 monitor? If so, it
                              > likely *is* worth spending some effort on, as VR201s are becoming very scarce.
                              >
                              > As I said, I don't know the model number. But I didn't mean we should not repair it at all. I only meant that it's not urgent because I think we have others of the same flavor that are in better condition for the exhibit.

                              Gotcha, sounds good.

                              The mono monitors for Rainbows (and DEC Professional series, and VT240
                              terminals) are VR201s, with -A/-B/-C suffices for white, amber, and green.
                              The color monitors for those systems are VR241s. There are no others of
                              which I am aware.

                              -Dave

                              --
                              Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                              New Kensington, PA
                            • Evan Koblentz
                              ... If it were possible, I d like us to restore * everything * in the club collection. :) It is impossible.
                              Message 14 of 25 , May 13, 2013
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                                >> As I said, I don't know the model number. But I didn't mean we should not repair it at all. I only meant that it's not urgent because I think we have others of the same flavor that are in better condition for the exhibit.

                                > Gotcha, sounds good.

                                If it were possible, I'd like us to restore * everything * in the club collection. :) It is impossible.
                              • Cory Smelosky
                                ... Does that include the /people/ in the collection too? ;) ... -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments
                                Message 15 of 25 , May 13, 2013
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                                  On Tue, 14 May 2013, Evan Koblentz wrote:

                                  >
                                  >>> As I said, I don't know the model number. But I didn't mean we should not repair it at all. I only meant that it's not urgent because I think we have others of the same flavor that are in better condition for the exhibit.
                                  >
                                  >> Gotcha, sounds good.
                                  >
                                  > If it were possible, I'd like us to restore * everything * in the club collection. :) It is impossible.
                                  >

                                  Does that include the /people/ in the collection too? ;)

                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >

                                  --
                                  Cory Smelosky
                                  http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff
                                  http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments
                                • Jeffrey Brace
                                  From: Evan Koblentz Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 12:29 AM ... As I recall that *was* the one that was in the best condition. They all have the same problem.
                                  Message 16 of 25 , May 13, 2013
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                                    From: Evan Koblentz
                                    Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 12:29 AM


                                    >> Also the Dec Rainbow terminal needs a little cleaning up

                                    >The CRT in that terminal isn't worth the effort of taking it apart to clean
                                    >inside. We have a few more units of the same terminal (I forget the model
                                    >number -- it's one of the small ones) that we can just swap in.

                                    As I recall that *was* the one that was in the best condition. They all have
                                    the same problem.
                                  • Evan Koblentz
                                    ... No, you re thinking of the two or three that came from the person who donated the Rainbow(s). Remember we stumbled on more in the warehouse a few months
                                    Message 17 of 25 , May 13, 2013
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                                      >> As I recall that *was* the one that was in the best condition.

                                      No, you're thinking of the two or three that came from the person who donated the Rainbow(s). Remember we stumbled on more in the warehouse a few months ago from an unrelated long-ago rescue? They were the ones where I joked about how many would fit in a box because they're so small ... the punch line being it depends on the size of the box. Hey, I never said it was actually funny. :)
                                    • Mike Loewen
                                      ... Brain tricks. For some reason, I read that as Hebrew room . I figured Evan was expanding the museum. :-) Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old
                                      Message 18 of 25 , May 14, 2013
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                                        On Tue, 14 May 2013, Jeffrey Brace wrote:

                                        > Rainbow terminal needs a little cleaning up, Vax Man can explain that. I
                                        > wonder about the ones in the homebrew room, like the SWTPC, didn't it have a

                                        Brain tricks. For some reason, I read that as "Hebrew room". I
                                        figured Evan was expanding the museum. :-)


                                        Mike Loewen mloewen@...
                                        Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                                      • s100doctor
                                        ... OK, thanks for the humor. Now....Evan, please clarify when you can, the following. 1) You posted something about MARCH/you selling some DEC Rainbows. 2)
                                        Message 19 of 25 , May 14, 2013
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                                          --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "Evan Koblentz" <evan@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > >> As I recall that *was* the one that was in the best condition.
                                          >
                                          > No, you're thinking of the two or three that came from the person who donated the Rainbow(s). Remember we stumbled on more in the warehouse a few months ago from an unrelated long-ago rescue? They were the ones where I joked about....

                                          OK, thanks for the humor. Now....Evan, please clarify when you can, the following. 1) You posted something about MARCH/you selling some DEC Rainbows. 2) You are posting something about wanting repairs for MARCH, of some DEC Rainbows, or their monitors. 3) MARCH has what appears to be VR201 monitors for these, in some kind of condition.

                                          Why do I ask? I may or may not bring some DEC desktops including a Rainbow 100. I might *buy* a VR201, I need one or more. I can likely borrow a VR201 to bring. Dave Comley has some of these things, I'm talking to him.

                                          What he and I bring, depends on what's going to be sold or worked on. I'm sure you are busy, but at some point it would be useful to tell folks what may be sold by MARCH. And if you want things worked on, telling people in advance the issues of those items, will help them decide what parts or items to bring - like me.

                                          Thank you.

                                          Herb Johnson
                                          bewildered in New Jersey
                                        • Evan Koblentz
                                          ... Very sorry for all the confusion. As I posted on 5/11, We ** may ** have extra DECmates and/or Rainbows. To be determined ... now it appears that answer
                                          Message 20 of 25 , May 14, 2013
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                                            >> You posted something about MARCH/you selling some DEC Rainbows.
                                            >> MARCH has what appears to be VR201 monitors for these, in some kind
                                            >> of condition. Why do I ask? I may or may not bring some DEC
                                            >> desktops including a Rainbow 100. I might *buy* a VR201, I need one
                                            >> or more. I can likely borrow a VR201 to bring.

                                            Very sorry for all the confusion. As I posted on 5/11, "We ** may **
                                            have extra DECmates and/or Rainbows. To be determined" ... now it
                                            appears that answer is "no". Here's why: after checking out our DEC
                                            storage carts last weekend, Jeff B. and I found that only have
                                            three Rainbows total, one of which has some rare modifications according
                                            to the person who donated it. Thus we should keep those. Regarding the
                                            small terminals, I think we should keep all of those too, because one
                                            day we'll set up information kiosks in our expanded museum space, and
                                            they'd be perfect for that job. We do however have assorted Micro 11s
                                            and Vaxstations that probably aren't mission-critical. Do those interest
                                            you?


                                            >> You are posting something about wanting repairs for MARCH, of some
                                            DEC Rainbows, or their monitors.

                                            One of the screens does need repair. It works, but it's rotted inside. I
                                            do not know the technically accurate way to explain that. Brian S.
                                            (Vaxman) previously said he knows just what to do. But if you or anyone
                                            else wants to work on it this weekend, that's fine.


                                            >> I'm sure you are busy, but at some point it would be useful to tell
                                            >> folks what may be sold by MARCH.


                                            I'm hoping to get to the museum tomorrow, with Jeff J.; what's available
                                            to sell is a primary question that we will figure out. So I might have a
                                            better answer by tomorrow night.


                                            >> And if you want things worked on, telling people in advance the issues
                                            >> of those items, will help them decide what parts or items to bring - like me.

                                            You can probably see that I'm having a difficult time answering that
                                            question for the many people who asked it. :) There is so much to work
                                            on that I do not know the best way to prioritize it.

                                            For example, Jeff B. noted that in our exhibit of business
                                            microcomputers, several systems could use work -- the Epson HX-20 has
                                            booting issues (and I'd love to see it actually run Valdocs; we have
                                            some disks in unknown condiiton); I'm still having disk drive issues
                                            with the Osborne (it worked for a while, but not the last time I tried
                                            it); David G. already agreed to check out our Xerox 820 (we'd be giddy
                                            to see it running a GUI and making use of the Blit).

                                            Degnan and/or David G. might work on the 11/20 that you cleaned for us.
                                            First, I'll take care of the foam/rubber inside the chassis -- Deg.
                                            showed me what to do.

                                            It would be really nice if people can start looking at some of the other
                                            museum minicomputers. Our Wang 2200 works, but not its drive unit. We
                                            have an extra drive unit for it in storage. That room also contains one
                                            of our two Burroughs B80s, the Prime 6550, an Eclipse, and of course the
                                            Kagan 8. There's no 220V in there, but there is in the event room -- so
                                            maybe someone can pick one of those computers and start evaluating it.

                                            In the homebrew exhibit, people such as Bill Deg. / Corey / Jon C. all
                                            volunteered to evaluate the Mark-8 (which is insanely clean, plus I have
                                            the power supply schematic for it, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if
                                            it's running by the end of the weekend!) ... they're also going to start
                                            working on the Scelbi replica. Corey already did some minor repairs to
                                            the Mimeo (Apple 1) by changing a certain capacitor that he thinks was
                                            causing it to generate random characters; we'll see if that did the
                                            trick or if it needs a need keyboard encoder chip.

                                            I think you and several others would all like to check out the "Dudley
                                            8" homebrewed PDP-8. Have at it! :)

                                            One last comment: yet another side benefit of The Great Storage
                                            Organization Project is it's much easier now to walk around the
                                            warehouse and see what interests everyone for restoration purposes.

                                            Perhaps after the organization project is done (although we haven't
                                            touched the stuff in the basement yet), we could/should hold workshops
                                            more frequently.
                                          • Matt Patoray
                                            What is happening with the CRT on the monitor is that the PVA material that bonds the safety glass to the front of the CRT is degrading. What needs to be done
                                            Message 21 of 25 , May 14, 2013
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                                              What is happening with the CRT on the monitor is that the PVA material that bonds the safety glass to the front of the CRT is degrading.

                                              What needs to be done is that the safety glass and CRT need separated the PVA removed and then the safety glass remounted to the CRT.

                                              Not something to be taken lightly as you will be working with an unprotected CRT that could very well implode.

                                              Matt
                                               


                                              One of the screens does need repair. It works, but it's rotted inside. I
                                              do not know the technically accurate way to explain that. Brian S.
                                              (Vaxman) previously said he knows just what to do. But if you or anyone
                                              else wants to work on it this weekend, that's fine.


                                            • s100doctor
                                              ... SOmeone else posted a need for a Vaxstation 3100 power supply. (?) I don t know much about Micro-11 systems. ... Chances are that s a CRT problem that
                                              Message 22 of 25 , May 14, 2013
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                                                Evan Koblentz <evan@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Very sorry for all the confusion. As I posted on 5/11, "We *may*
                                                > have extra DECmates and/or Rainbows. To be determined" ... now it
                                                > appears that answer is "no". We do however have assorted Micro 11s
                                                > and Vaxstations that probably aren't mission-critical. Do those interest
                                                > you?

                                                SOmeone else posted a need for a Vaxstation 3100 power supply. (?) I don't know much about Micro-11 systems.

                                                > One of the [monitor] screens does need repair. It works, but it's rotted inside...

                                                Chances are that's a CRT problem that calls for replacement or considerable effort to disassemble the CRT tube itself. Others can discuss off-line what that's about. I'm sure I or others can look at the "screens" during the weekend and assess this and explain what's the deal.

                                                > I'm hoping to get to the museum tomorrow, with Jeff J.; what's available
                                                > to sell is a primary question that we will figure out. So I might have a
                                                > better answer by tomorrow night.

                                                > [As to what to work on,] There is so much to work
                                                > on that I do not know the best way to prioritize it.

                                                Thanks for listing possible on-exhibit items that need attention; and for intentions to list more in a few days. You know, just having items examined on-site this weekend by knowledgeable persons, may help you by identifying specific problems for repair, or additional accessories needed, or identifying replacement parts. Then you can find parts and items, and set informed priorities, after the weekend. So a list of exhibits with problems and needs is a useful start.

                                                > It would be really nice if people can start looking at some of the other
                                                > museum minicomputers. Our Wang 2200....Burroughs B80s... the Prime 6550, an Eclipse, and of course the Kagan 8. There's no 220V in there...

                                                Power is not necessary to evaluate and identify potential problems, or items needed for operation. Don't focus so much on getting things running in 36 hours. (That is not a challenge.)

                                                > In the homebrew exhibit... Mark-8... Scelbi replica....
                                                > Mimeo (Apple 1)

                                                Those seem to be items already set to be worked on, including I presume this weekend. I'll enjoy looking at them.

                                                > I think you and several others would all like to check out the "Dudley
                                                > 8" homebrewed PDP-8. Have at it! :)

                                                Yes, I have an interest.

                                                > One last comment: yet another side benefit of The Great Storage
                                                > Organization Project is it's much easier now to walk around the
                                                > warehouse and see what interests everyone for restoration purposes.
                                                >
                                                > Perhaps after the organization project is done (although we haven't
                                                > touched the stuff in the basement yet), we could/should hold workshops
                                                > more frequently.

                                                Well, I'll close with this thought. If you can make the case that more preparation of warehouse storage helps you and others; then I can make the case that more information about what's there (or on exhibit) and what's wrong with it, helps *those interested*, in preparing beforehand for the present, or for workshops (AKA museum repair work) you are suggesting for the future.

                                                Herb Johnson
                                              • David Riley
                                                ... There was a LOOOONG thread on this subject on cctalk... last year? I think it was last year. Lots of interesting advice on it, if you want to trawl the
                                                Message 23 of 25 , May 14, 2013
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                                                  On May 14, 2013, at 3:41 PM, Matt Patoray <mspproductions@...> wrote:

                                                  >
                                                  > What is happening with the CRT on the monitor is that the PVA material that bonds the safety glass to the front of the CRT is degrading.
                                                  >
                                                  > What needs to be done is that the safety glass and CRT need separated the PVA removed and then the safety glass remounted to the CRT.
                                                  >
                                                  > Not something to be taken lightly as you will be working with an unprotected CRT that could very well implode.

                                                  There was a LOOOONG thread on this subject on cctalk... last year? I think it was last year. Lots of interesting advice on it, if you want to trawl the archives.


                                                  - Dave
                                                • Jeffrey Brace
                                                  Also what is wrong with the Sony in the Business micro room? I think it was an issue with not having the proper cable to connect from the monitor to the
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , May 14, 2013
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                                                    Also what is wrong with the Sony in the Business micro room? I think it was
                                                    an issue with not having the proper cable to connect from the monitor to the
                                                    computer?
                                                  • Evan Koblentz
                                                    ... Hmm ... thought we had it working, briefly, a while ago. Andy is the expert in that machine but I don t know if he is going this weekend.
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , May 15, 2013
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                                                      >> I think it was an issue with not having the proper cable to connect from the monitor to the computer?

                                                      Hmm ... thought we had it working, briefly, a while ago.

                                                      Andy is the expert in that machine but I don't know if he is going this weekend.
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