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RE: [midatlanticretro] desoldering station advice

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  • telmnstr
    ... I have to admit these cheap chinese tools are killing it. My weller can t get as hot as the $80 digital chinese soldering stations that my friends have,
    Message 1 of 23 , Mar 29, 2013
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      > I have a Pace digital soldering station that I do love. Until the
      > other day, I was holding out for a Pace desoldering station. If I had
      > to do a whole lot of desoldering, I think I still might get a Pace but
      > I think the 808 will be a useful addition to my toolkit for odds and
      > ends work.

      I have to admit these cheap chinese tools are killing it. My weller can't
      get as hot as the $80 digital chinese soldering stations that my friends
      have, which becomes a problem with RoHS electronics and what not.

      Also a friend of mine picked up the chinese hot air reflow and is doing
      BGA reballs for fun.

      (To keep it on topic, I sent an email to the person that made the IDE CF
      S100 card and am hoping to hear that there are more boards out there. I
      plan to build one as a temporary hold out in place of my hard sectored
      IMSAI Northstar drive.)
    • David Riley
      ... How well does that do the job for putting the BGAs down? I ve been thinking about getting one of those for BGA work (soldering, not reballing). Lots of
      Message 2 of 23 , Mar 29, 2013
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        On Mar 29, 2013, at 2:29 PM, telmnstr@... wrote:

        > > I have a Pace digital soldering station that I do love. Until the
        > > other day, I was holding out for a Pace desoldering station. If I had
        > > to do a whole lot of desoldering, I think I still might get a Pace but
        > > I think the 808 will be a useful addition to my toolkit for odds and
        > > ends work.
        >
        > I have to admit these cheap chinese tools are killing it. My weller can't
        > get as hot as the $80 digital chinese soldering stations that my friends
        > have, which becomes a problem with RoHS electronics and what not.
        >
        > Also a friend of mine picked up the chinese hot air reflow and is doing
        > BGA reballs for fun.

        How well does that do the job for putting the BGAs down? I've been
        thinking about getting one of those for BGA work (soldering, not
        reballing). Lots of video tutorials out there featuring those hot
        air reflow stations.


        - Dave
      • telmnstr
        ... I assume pretty good. He has a few frame things, and is doing the whole XBox 360 repair. He s building his own pile of them for use at a video game
        Message 3 of 23 , Mar 29, 2013
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          > How well does that do the job for putting the BGAs down? I've been
          > thinking about getting one of those for BGA work (soldering, not
          > reballing). Lots of video tutorials out there featuring those hot
          > air reflow stations.

          I assume pretty good. He has a few frame things, and is doing the whole
          XBox 360 repair. He's building his own pile of them for use at a video
          game convention.

          As I recall he uses a frame to keep the board from warping, brings the
          whole board up to a specific temperature slowly, then uses a shield around
          other components and the hot air setup to extract the BGA chips. Cleans
          them up, lays down new paste with a stencil then brings it up to
          temperature again. I think that is the process.

          Another friend jsut did the whole toaster oven setup for doing SMDs. I've
          got a few uses for it in mind. He has a computer controller on it with a
          thermocouple and all that. Arduino based controller I think.
        • David Riley
          ... I ve had luck using a toaster oven for simple SMD devices, but I think I d rather use something more localized for BGA work. I think we might have one at
          Message 4 of 23 , Mar 29, 2013
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            On Mar 29, 2013, at 2:48 PM, telmnstr@... wrote:

            > Another friend jsut did the whole toaster oven setup for doing SMDs. I've
            > got a few uses for it in mind. He has a computer controller on it with a
            > thermocouple and all that. Arduino based controller I think.

            I've had luck using a toaster oven for simple SMD devices, but I think
            I'd rather use something more localized for BGA work. I think we might
            have one at the office where I work, but since I work from home from a
            different state, I don't get to see it too often. Maybe I should just
            try it sometime.


            - Dave
          • Systems Glitch
            ... I ve got one of the dual-drive ones from s100computers/N8VEM, I just started populating it last week actually. If none are available it would be extremely
            Message 5 of 23 , Mar 29, 2013
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              > (To keep it on topic, I sent an email to the person that made the IDE CF
              > S100 card and am hoping to hear that there are more boards out there. I
              > plan to build one as a temporary hold out in place of my hard sectored
              > IMSAI Northstar drive.)

              I've got one of the dual-drive ones from s100computers/N8VEM, I just started populating it last week actually. If none are available it would be extremely easy to clone, especially if you don't care about IEEE-696 support. It's mostly just an 8255 PIA and a bit of glue logic.

              Thanks,
              Jonathan
            • telmnstr
              ... Interesting! Any idea if it s possible to use the CF card with PC based emulators to manipulate/load the OS?
              Message 6 of 23 , Mar 29, 2013
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                >> (To keep it on topic, I sent an email to the person that made the IDE CF
                >> S100 card and am hoping to hear that there are more boards out there. I
                >> plan to build one as a temporary hold out in place of my hard sectored
                >> IMSAI Northstar drive.)
                >
                > I've got one of the dual-drive ones from s100computers/N8VEM, I just
                > started populating it last week actually. If none are available it would
                > be extremely easy to clone, especially if you don't care about IEEE-696
                > support. It's mostly just an 8255 PIA and a bit of glue logic.
                > Thanks,
                > Jonathan

                Interesting! Any idea if it's possible to use the CF card with PC based
                emulators to manipulate/load the OS?
              • Systems Glitch
                ... Not that I know of, but I m far from the authority on it. John Monahan (runs s100computers.com) has test software written for both CP/M and ROM (patch your
                Message 7 of 23 , Mar 29, 2013
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                  > Interesting! Any idea if it's possible to use the CF card with PC based
                  > emulators to manipulate/load the OS?

                  Not that I know of, but I'm far from the authority on it. John Monahan (runs s100computers.com) has test software written for both CP/M and ROM (patch your own console I/O) available through his website.

                  It should be possible to emulate the board in one of the extensible emulators, saving the generated output to an image that could then be dumped onto the CF card.

                  Thanks,
                  Jonathan
                • joshbensadon
                  ... The AOUYE 701 looks very nice. The specs are great. I use a PACE SR-2 and give the PACE a 5 out of 10 rating. It works, but you have to fuss over
                  Message 8 of 23 , Mar 29, 2013
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                    --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "B. Degnan" <billdeg@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I want to get a desoldering station specifically for vintage computer
                    > cards, etc.
                    >
                    > I found this ebay auction for an AOUYE 701 but I don't know much about
                    > them:
                    >
                    > 170848203531
                    >
                    > any opinions? I see the Hakko FM-204's are pretty nice, but they're at
                    > least $650.
                    >


                    The AOUYE 701 looks very nice. The specs are great. I use a PACE SR-2 and give the PACE a 5 out of 10 rating. It works, but you have to fuss over keeping it clean. The AOUYE gives 24" of Hg vacuum, my PACE only gives 20". I think that will go a long way to keeping the hole clear. I especially love that the 701 has temperature control, something that doesn't work very well in the PACE. The tip is close to the heating element, a good design.

                    My guess is the AOUYE will give you value for your money.

                    :)J
                  • Bill Sudbrink
                    ... Hmmm... Well, I was thinking of an ST-145 with an SX-80 handpiece. These newer snap-vac systems are supposed to be really good and the SX series
                    Message 9 of 23 , Mar 29, 2013
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                      Joshbensadon wrote:
                      > The AOUYE 701 looks very nice. The specs are great. I use a PACE SR-2
                      > and give the PACE a 5 out of 10 rating. It works, but you have to fuss
                      > over keeping it clean.

                      Hmmm... Well, I was thinking of an ST-145 with an SX-80 handpiece. These
                      newer "snap-vac" systems are supposed to be really good and the SX series
                      handpieces are supposed to be very light.

                      Bill S.
                    • Dave McGuire
                      ... AOYUE started out making cheap Chinese clones of top-end, very expensive commercial Hakko equipment, almost model-for-model. One such clone was made of the
                      Message 10 of 23 , Mar 29, 2013
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                        On 03/29/2013 03:59 PM, joshbensadon wrote:
                        > My guess is the AOUYE will give you value for your money.

                        AOYUE started out making cheap Chinese clones of top-end, very expensive
                        commercial Hakko equipment, almost model-for-model.

                        One such clone was made of the famous and very pricey Hakko 850 hot air
                        rework station. I've used the AOYUE version and the Hakko version side by
                        side. The AOYUE unit is built better and works better.

                        Later, they started adding new features to the standard feature sets, and
                        doing their own models of stuff. Everything I've seen from them has been top
                        notch and built like a tank. This is the exception to the "Chinese garbage"
                        rule!

                        SRA Soldering Products is the US distributor for AOYUE. SRA is a small
                        family-owned company with whom I've dealt for years. They are top-notch. (I
                        don't work for them; I'm just a happy customer.)

                        http://www.sra-solder.com/

                        -Dave

                        --
                        Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                        New Kensington, PA
                      • joshbensadon
                        ... Yes, that is a much more superior model than the one I use. I m only giving a 5 / 10 for my old station. To be fair, PACE makes a lot of better models.
                        Message 11 of 23 , Mar 29, 2013
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                          --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Sudbrink" <wh.sudbrink@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Joshbensadon wrote:
                          > > The AOUYE 701 looks very nice. The specs are great. I use a PACE SR-2
                          > > and give the PACE a 5 out of 10 rating. It works, but you have to fuss
                          > > over keeping it clean.
                          >
                          > Hmmm... Well, I was thinking of an ST-145 with an SX-80 handpiece. These
                          > newer "snap-vac" systems are supposed to be really good and the SX series
                          > handpieces are supposed to be very light.
                          >
                          > Bill S.


                          Yes, that is a much more superior model than the one I use. I'm only giving a 5 / 10 for my old station. To be fair, PACE makes a lot of better models. At work I use a PACE MBT 250, I don't know off the top of my head which handpiece it has, but the tips look like those SX tips. They don't clogg nearly as much as my old PACE SR-2.

                          I'm actually considering to buy a solder pot. They don't seem to cost very much for the small cheap ones. I wonder if they are any good?

                          :)J
                        • Bill Sudbrink
                          ... Did you see this one: 130843710541? Man! Those things are cheap! Seems too good to be true. Bill S.
                          Message 12 of 23 , Mar 29, 2013
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                            B. Degnan wrote:
                            >
                            > I found this ebay auction for an AOUYE 701 but I don't know much about
                            > them:
                            >
                            > 170848203531

                            Did you see this one: 130843710541?

                            Man! Those things are cheap! Seems too good to be true.

                            Bill S.
                          • Dave McGuire
                            ... I have a solder pot that I could sell cheaply. Contact me off-list if you re interested. I was thinking of putting it on eBay soon anyway. -Dave -- Dave
                            Message 13 of 23 , Mar 29, 2013
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                              On 03/29/2013 04:39 PM, joshbensadon wrote:
                              > I'm actually considering to buy a solder pot. They don't seem to cost
                              > very much for the small cheap ones. I wonder if they are any good?

                              I have a solder pot that I could sell cheaply. Contact me off-list if
                              you're interested. I was thinking of putting it on eBay soon anyway.

                              -Dave

                              --
                              Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                              New Kensington, PA
                            • Dave McGuire
                              ... AOYUE s stuff is probably the best value for the dollar that I ve seen in this industry. Ever. You can also actually get REPAIR PARTS for them, like
                              Message 14 of 23 , Mar 29, 2013
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                                On 03/29/2013 04:41 PM, Bill Sudbrink wrote:
                                > B. Degnan wrote:
                                >>
                                >> I found this ebay auction for an AOUYE 701 but I don't know much about
                                >> them:
                                >>
                                >> 170848203531
                                >
                                > Did you see this one: 130843710541?
                                >
                                > Man! Those things are cheap! Seems too good to be true.

                                AOYUE's stuff is probably the best value for the dollar that I've seen in
                                this industry. Ever.

                                You can also actually get REPAIR PARTS for them, like heating elements,
                                etc. SRA sells them. They're built to be maintained. In this day and age,
                                that's very rare, and amazing.

                                -Dave

                                --
                                Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                                New Kensington, PA
                              • hornbetw
                                ... I ve used Pace and other self-contained desoldering stations in the Marines and at several employers. The Pace units seemed to work the best. None of the
                                Message 15 of 23 , Mar 29, 2013
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                                  --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, telmnstr@... wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > I have a Pace digital soldering station that I do love. Until the
                                  > > other day, I was holding out for a Pace desoldering station. If I had
                                  > > to do a whole lot of desoldering, I think I still might get a Pace but
                                  > > I think the 808 will be a useful addition to my toolkit for odds and
                                  > > ends work.
                                  >
                                  > I have to admit these cheap chinese tools are killing it. My weller can't
                                  > get as hot as the $80 digital chinese soldering stations that my friends
                                  > have, which becomes a problem with RoHS electronics and what not.
                                  >
                                  > Also a friend of mine picked up the chinese hot air reflow and is doing
                                  > BGA reballs for fun.
                                  >
                                  > (To keep it on topic, I sent an email to the person that made the IDE CF
                                  > S100 card and am hoping to hear that there are more boards out there. I
                                  > plan to build one as a temporary hold out in place of my hard sectored
                                  > IMSAI Northstar drive.)
                                  >

                                  I've used Pace and other self-contained desoldering stations in the Marines and at several employers. The Pace units seemed to work the best. None of the self-contained units work as well as the Weller WDD 81V that I currently have. If you have shop air available, the units that run on it, work much better than the self-contained stations.

                                  Tom
                                • B. Degnan
                                  ... Marines and at several employers. The Pace units seemed to work the best. None of the self-contained units work as well as the Weller WDD 81V that I
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Mar 29, 2013
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                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > I've used Pace and other self-contained desoldering stations in the
                                    Marines and at several employers. The Pace units seemed to work the best.
                                    None of the self-contained units work as well as the Weller WDD 81V that I
                                    currently have. If you have shop air available, the units that run on it,
                                    work much better than the self-contained stations.
                                    >
                                    > Tom
                                    >

                                    Given the cost and what Bill S said, I decided to buy the Hakko 808-KIT.
                                    For $178 seemed like the best deal all around for what I need to do. I
                                    hope I made the right decision.

                                    B
                                  • Mike Loewen
                                    ... Let us know how you like it. Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Mar 29, 2013
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                                      On Fri, 29 Mar 2013, B. Degnan wrote:

                                      > Given the cost and what Bill S said, I decided to buy the Hakko 808-KIT.
                                      > For $178 seemed like the best deal all around for what I need to do. I
                                      > hope I made the right decision.

                                      Let us know how you like it.


                                      Mike Loewen mloewen@...
                                      Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                                    • wb4jfi
                                      ... Sorry for being late to the party, but I have an X-Tronic 4040, which has worked very good for me. Both a nice iron and a hot-air wand in one unit. The
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Mar 30, 2013
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                                        --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Mike Loewen <mloewen@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > On Fri, 29 Mar 2013, B. Degnan wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > Given the cost and what Bill S said, I decided to buy the Hakko 808-KIT.
                                        > > For $178 seemed like the best deal all around for what I need to do. I
                                        > > hope I made the right decision.
                                        >
                                        > Let us know how you like it.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Mike Loewen mloewen@...
                                        > Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                                        >

                                        Sorry for being late to the party, but I have an X-Tronic 4040, which has worked very good for me. Both a nice iron and a hot-air wand in one unit. The newer models have fixed the only minor complaint that I had: it only read in centigrade before, but is not switchable between C and F readouts. It comes with extra tips, and extra heating elements for both iron and wand, at less than $110. ebay link:
                                        http://www.ebay.com/itm/X-TRONIC-4040-HOT-AIR-REWORK-SOLDERING-IRON-STATION-/180672745995?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a10ef520b

                                        Terry, WB4JFI
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