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RE: [midatlanticretro] desoldering station advice

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  • Bill Sudbrink
    ... I have a Pace digital soldering station that I do love. Until the other day, I was holding out for a Pace desoldering station. If I had to do a whole lot
    Message 1 of 23 , Mar 29 11:23 AM
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      telmnstr@... wrote:
      > Sent: Friday, March 29, 2013 2:18 PM
      > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] desoldering station advice
      >
      > > I had the opportunity to handle a Hakko 808 the other day.
      > > I was surprised by how light it was and what a good job it
      > > does. I expected it to be heavier and less capable. I
      > > intend to get one as soon as I'm sure I have the "hobby
      > > money" available.
      >
      > Hakko 808 is great!
      >
      > A friend swears by used PACE stations though (fancy digital ones that
      > sometimes turn up low cost on ebay.)

      I have a Pace digital soldering station that I do love. Until the
      other day, I was holding out for a Pace desoldering station. If I had
      to do a whole lot of desoldering, I think I still might get a Pace but
      I think the 808 will be a useful addition to my toolkit for odds and
      ends work.

      Bill S.
    • telmnstr
      ... I have to admit these cheap chinese tools are killing it. My weller can t get as hot as the $80 digital chinese soldering stations that my friends have,
      Message 2 of 23 , Mar 29 11:29 AM
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        > I have a Pace digital soldering station that I do love. Until the
        > other day, I was holding out for a Pace desoldering station. If I had
        > to do a whole lot of desoldering, I think I still might get a Pace but
        > I think the 808 will be a useful addition to my toolkit for odds and
        > ends work.

        I have to admit these cheap chinese tools are killing it. My weller can't
        get as hot as the $80 digital chinese soldering stations that my friends
        have, which becomes a problem with RoHS electronics and what not.

        Also a friend of mine picked up the chinese hot air reflow and is doing
        BGA reballs for fun.

        (To keep it on topic, I sent an email to the person that made the IDE CF
        S100 card and am hoping to hear that there are more boards out there. I
        plan to build one as a temporary hold out in place of my hard sectored
        IMSAI Northstar drive.)
      • David Riley
        ... How well does that do the job for putting the BGAs down? I ve been thinking about getting one of those for BGA work (soldering, not reballing). Lots of
        Message 3 of 23 , Mar 29 11:40 AM
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          On Mar 29, 2013, at 2:29 PM, telmnstr@... wrote:

          > > I have a Pace digital soldering station that I do love. Until the
          > > other day, I was holding out for a Pace desoldering station. If I had
          > > to do a whole lot of desoldering, I think I still might get a Pace but
          > > I think the 808 will be a useful addition to my toolkit for odds and
          > > ends work.
          >
          > I have to admit these cheap chinese tools are killing it. My weller can't
          > get as hot as the $80 digital chinese soldering stations that my friends
          > have, which becomes a problem with RoHS electronics and what not.
          >
          > Also a friend of mine picked up the chinese hot air reflow and is doing
          > BGA reballs for fun.

          How well does that do the job for putting the BGAs down? I've been
          thinking about getting one of those for BGA work (soldering, not
          reballing). Lots of video tutorials out there featuring those hot
          air reflow stations.


          - Dave
        • telmnstr
          ... I assume pretty good. He has a few frame things, and is doing the whole XBox 360 repair. He s building his own pile of them for use at a video game
          Message 4 of 23 , Mar 29 11:48 AM
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            > How well does that do the job for putting the BGAs down? I've been
            > thinking about getting one of those for BGA work (soldering, not
            > reballing). Lots of video tutorials out there featuring those hot
            > air reflow stations.

            I assume pretty good. He has a few frame things, and is doing the whole
            XBox 360 repair. He's building his own pile of them for use at a video
            game convention.

            As I recall he uses a frame to keep the board from warping, brings the
            whole board up to a specific temperature slowly, then uses a shield around
            other components and the hot air setup to extract the BGA chips. Cleans
            them up, lays down new paste with a stencil then brings it up to
            temperature again. I think that is the process.

            Another friend jsut did the whole toaster oven setup for doing SMDs. I've
            got a few uses for it in mind. He has a computer controller on it with a
            thermocouple and all that. Arduino based controller I think.
          • David Riley
            ... I ve had luck using a toaster oven for simple SMD devices, but I think I d rather use something more localized for BGA work. I think we might have one at
            Message 5 of 23 , Mar 29 11:55 AM
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              On Mar 29, 2013, at 2:48 PM, telmnstr@... wrote:

              > Another friend jsut did the whole toaster oven setup for doing SMDs. I've
              > got a few uses for it in mind. He has a computer controller on it with a
              > thermocouple and all that. Arduino based controller I think.

              I've had luck using a toaster oven for simple SMD devices, but I think
              I'd rather use something more localized for BGA work. I think we might
              have one at the office where I work, but since I work from home from a
              different state, I don't get to see it too often. Maybe I should just
              try it sometime.


              - Dave
            • Systems Glitch
              ... I ve got one of the dual-drive ones from s100computers/N8VEM, I just started populating it last week actually. If none are available it would be extremely
              Message 6 of 23 , Mar 29 12:03 PM
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                > (To keep it on topic, I sent an email to the person that made the IDE CF
                > S100 card and am hoping to hear that there are more boards out there. I
                > plan to build one as a temporary hold out in place of my hard sectored
                > IMSAI Northstar drive.)

                I've got one of the dual-drive ones from s100computers/N8VEM, I just started populating it last week actually. If none are available it would be extremely easy to clone, especially if you don't care about IEEE-696 support. It's mostly just an 8255 PIA and a bit of glue logic.

                Thanks,
                Jonathan
              • telmnstr
                ... Interesting! Any idea if it s possible to use the CF card with PC based emulators to manipulate/load the OS?
                Message 7 of 23 , Mar 29 12:34 PM
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                  >> (To keep it on topic, I sent an email to the person that made the IDE CF
                  >> S100 card and am hoping to hear that there are more boards out there. I
                  >> plan to build one as a temporary hold out in place of my hard sectored
                  >> IMSAI Northstar drive.)
                  >
                  > I've got one of the dual-drive ones from s100computers/N8VEM, I just
                  > started populating it last week actually. If none are available it would
                  > be extremely easy to clone, especially if you don't care about IEEE-696
                  > support. It's mostly just an 8255 PIA and a bit of glue logic.
                  > Thanks,
                  > Jonathan

                  Interesting! Any idea if it's possible to use the CF card with PC based
                  emulators to manipulate/load the OS?
                • Systems Glitch
                  ... Not that I know of, but I m far from the authority on it. John Monahan (runs s100computers.com) has test software written for both CP/M and ROM (patch your
                  Message 8 of 23 , Mar 29 12:56 PM
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                    > Interesting! Any idea if it's possible to use the CF card with PC based
                    > emulators to manipulate/load the OS?

                    Not that I know of, but I'm far from the authority on it. John Monahan (runs s100computers.com) has test software written for both CP/M and ROM (patch your own console I/O) available through his website.

                    It should be possible to emulate the board in one of the extensible emulators, saving the generated output to an image that could then be dumped onto the CF card.

                    Thanks,
                    Jonathan
                  • joshbensadon
                    ... The AOUYE 701 looks very nice. The specs are great. I use a PACE SR-2 and give the PACE a 5 out of 10 rating. It works, but you have to fuss over
                    Message 9 of 23 , Mar 29 12:59 PM
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                      --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "B. Degnan" <billdeg@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I want to get a desoldering station specifically for vintage computer
                      > cards, etc.
                      >
                      > I found this ebay auction for an AOUYE 701 but I don't know much about
                      > them:
                      >
                      > 170848203531
                      >
                      > any opinions? I see the Hakko FM-204's are pretty nice, but they're at
                      > least $650.
                      >


                      The AOUYE 701 looks very nice. The specs are great. I use a PACE SR-2 and give the PACE a 5 out of 10 rating. It works, but you have to fuss over keeping it clean. The AOUYE gives 24" of Hg vacuum, my PACE only gives 20". I think that will go a long way to keeping the hole clear. I especially love that the 701 has temperature control, something that doesn't work very well in the PACE. The tip is close to the heating element, a good design.

                      My guess is the AOUYE will give you value for your money.

                      :)J
                    • Bill Sudbrink
                      ... Hmmm... Well, I was thinking of an ST-145 with an SX-80 handpiece. These newer snap-vac systems are supposed to be really good and the SX series
                      Message 10 of 23 , Mar 29 1:13 PM
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                        Joshbensadon wrote:
                        > The AOUYE 701 looks very nice. The specs are great. I use a PACE SR-2
                        > and give the PACE a 5 out of 10 rating. It works, but you have to fuss
                        > over keeping it clean.

                        Hmmm... Well, I was thinking of an ST-145 with an SX-80 handpiece. These
                        newer "snap-vac" systems are supposed to be really good and the SX series
                        handpieces are supposed to be very light.

                        Bill S.
                      • Dave McGuire
                        ... AOYUE started out making cheap Chinese clones of top-end, very expensive commercial Hakko equipment, almost model-for-model. One such clone was made of the
                        Message 11 of 23 , Mar 29 1:14 PM
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                          On 03/29/2013 03:59 PM, joshbensadon wrote:
                          > My guess is the AOUYE will give you value for your money.

                          AOYUE started out making cheap Chinese clones of top-end, very expensive
                          commercial Hakko equipment, almost model-for-model.

                          One such clone was made of the famous and very pricey Hakko 850 hot air
                          rework station. I've used the AOYUE version and the Hakko version side by
                          side. The AOYUE unit is built better and works better.

                          Later, they started adding new features to the standard feature sets, and
                          doing their own models of stuff. Everything I've seen from them has been top
                          notch and built like a tank. This is the exception to the "Chinese garbage"
                          rule!

                          SRA Soldering Products is the US distributor for AOYUE. SRA is a small
                          family-owned company with whom I've dealt for years. They are top-notch. (I
                          don't work for them; I'm just a happy customer.)

                          http://www.sra-solder.com/

                          -Dave

                          --
                          Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                          New Kensington, PA
                        • joshbensadon
                          ... Yes, that is a much more superior model than the one I use. I m only giving a 5 / 10 for my old station. To be fair, PACE makes a lot of better models.
                          Message 12 of 23 , Mar 29 1:39 PM
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                            --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Sudbrink" <wh.sudbrink@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Joshbensadon wrote:
                            > > The AOUYE 701 looks very nice. The specs are great. I use a PACE SR-2
                            > > and give the PACE a 5 out of 10 rating. It works, but you have to fuss
                            > > over keeping it clean.
                            >
                            > Hmmm... Well, I was thinking of an ST-145 with an SX-80 handpiece. These
                            > newer "snap-vac" systems are supposed to be really good and the SX series
                            > handpieces are supposed to be very light.
                            >
                            > Bill S.


                            Yes, that is a much more superior model than the one I use. I'm only giving a 5 / 10 for my old station. To be fair, PACE makes a lot of better models. At work I use a PACE MBT 250, I don't know off the top of my head which handpiece it has, but the tips look like those SX tips. They don't clogg nearly as much as my old PACE SR-2.

                            I'm actually considering to buy a solder pot. They don't seem to cost very much for the small cheap ones. I wonder if they are any good?

                            :)J
                          • Bill Sudbrink
                            ... Did you see this one: 130843710541? Man! Those things are cheap! Seems too good to be true. Bill S.
                            Message 13 of 23 , Mar 29 1:41 PM
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                              B. Degnan wrote:
                              >
                              > I found this ebay auction for an AOUYE 701 but I don't know much about
                              > them:
                              >
                              > 170848203531

                              Did you see this one: 130843710541?

                              Man! Those things are cheap! Seems too good to be true.

                              Bill S.
                            • Dave McGuire
                              ... I have a solder pot that I could sell cheaply. Contact me off-list if you re interested. I was thinking of putting it on eBay soon anyway. -Dave -- Dave
                              Message 14 of 23 , Mar 29 1:43 PM
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                                On 03/29/2013 04:39 PM, joshbensadon wrote:
                                > I'm actually considering to buy a solder pot. They don't seem to cost
                                > very much for the small cheap ones. I wonder if they are any good?

                                I have a solder pot that I could sell cheaply. Contact me off-list if
                                you're interested. I was thinking of putting it on eBay soon anyway.

                                -Dave

                                --
                                Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                                New Kensington, PA
                              • Dave McGuire
                                ... AOYUE s stuff is probably the best value for the dollar that I ve seen in this industry. Ever. You can also actually get REPAIR PARTS for them, like
                                Message 15 of 23 , Mar 29 1:45 PM
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                                  On 03/29/2013 04:41 PM, Bill Sudbrink wrote:
                                  > B. Degnan wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >> I found this ebay auction for an AOUYE 701 but I don't know much about
                                  >> them:
                                  >>
                                  >> 170848203531
                                  >
                                  > Did you see this one: 130843710541?
                                  >
                                  > Man! Those things are cheap! Seems too good to be true.

                                  AOYUE's stuff is probably the best value for the dollar that I've seen in
                                  this industry. Ever.

                                  You can also actually get REPAIR PARTS for them, like heating elements,
                                  etc. SRA sells them. They're built to be maintained. In this day and age,
                                  that's very rare, and amazing.

                                  -Dave

                                  --
                                  Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                                  New Kensington, PA
                                • hornbetw
                                  ... I ve used Pace and other self-contained desoldering stations in the Marines and at several employers. The Pace units seemed to work the best. None of the
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Mar 29 3:47 PM
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                                    --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, telmnstr@... wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > I have a Pace digital soldering station that I do love. Until the
                                    > > other day, I was holding out for a Pace desoldering station. If I had
                                    > > to do a whole lot of desoldering, I think I still might get a Pace but
                                    > > I think the 808 will be a useful addition to my toolkit for odds and
                                    > > ends work.
                                    >
                                    > I have to admit these cheap chinese tools are killing it. My weller can't
                                    > get as hot as the $80 digital chinese soldering stations that my friends
                                    > have, which becomes a problem with RoHS electronics and what not.
                                    >
                                    > Also a friend of mine picked up the chinese hot air reflow and is doing
                                    > BGA reballs for fun.
                                    >
                                    > (To keep it on topic, I sent an email to the person that made the IDE CF
                                    > S100 card and am hoping to hear that there are more boards out there. I
                                    > plan to build one as a temporary hold out in place of my hard sectored
                                    > IMSAI Northstar drive.)
                                    >

                                    I've used Pace and other self-contained desoldering stations in the Marines and at several employers. The Pace units seemed to work the best. None of the self-contained units work as well as the Weller WDD 81V that I currently have. If you have shop air available, the units that run on it, work much better than the self-contained stations.

                                    Tom
                                  • B. Degnan
                                    ... Marines and at several employers. The Pace units seemed to work the best. None of the self-contained units work as well as the Weller WDD 81V that I
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Mar 29 5:54 PM
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                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > I've used Pace and other self-contained desoldering stations in the
                                      Marines and at several employers. The Pace units seemed to work the best.
                                      None of the self-contained units work as well as the Weller WDD 81V that I
                                      currently have. If you have shop air available, the units that run on it,
                                      work much better than the self-contained stations.
                                      >
                                      > Tom
                                      >

                                      Given the cost and what Bill S said, I decided to buy the Hakko 808-KIT.
                                      For $178 seemed like the best deal all around for what I need to do. I
                                      hope I made the right decision.

                                      B
                                    • Mike Loewen
                                      ... Let us know how you like it. Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Mar 29 6:03 PM
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                                        On Fri, 29 Mar 2013, B. Degnan wrote:

                                        > Given the cost and what Bill S said, I decided to buy the Hakko 808-KIT.
                                        > For $178 seemed like the best deal all around for what I need to do. I
                                        > hope I made the right decision.

                                        Let us know how you like it.


                                        Mike Loewen mloewen@...
                                        Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                                      • wb4jfi
                                        ... Sorry for being late to the party, but I have an X-Tronic 4040, which has worked very good for me. Both a nice iron and a hot-air wand in one unit. The
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Mar 30 1:26 PM
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                                          --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Mike Loewen <mloewen@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > On Fri, 29 Mar 2013, B. Degnan wrote:
                                          >
                                          > > Given the cost and what Bill S said, I decided to buy the Hakko 808-KIT.
                                          > > For $178 seemed like the best deal all around for what I need to do. I
                                          > > hope I made the right decision.
                                          >
                                          > Let us know how you like it.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Mike Loewen mloewen@...
                                          > Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                                          >

                                          Sorry for being late to the party, but I have an X-Tronic 4040, which has worked very good for me. Both a nice iron and a hot-air wand in one unit. The newer models have fixed the only minor complaint that I had: it only read in centigrade before, but is not switchable between C and F readouts. It comes with extra tips, and extra heating elements for both iron and wand, at less than $110. ebay link:
                                          http://www.ebay.com/itm/X-TRONIC-4040-HOT-AIR-REWORK-SOLDERING-IRON-STATION-/180672745995?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a10ef520b

                                          Terry, WB4JFI
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