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Re: [midatlanticretro] Paper Tape Punch...

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  • Systems Glitch
    ... Heh, apparently now is the time to read paper tapes! Are you using this on the console port in place of an ASR-33? If not, e-mail me directly as I m
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 19, 2013
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      > OK, so I just got an RS232 high speed paper tape reader (Well it's in the mail).

      Heh, apparently now is the time to read paper tapes! Are you using this on the console port in place of an ASR-33? If not, e-mail me directly as I'm working on standardizing a S-100 paper tape reader hardware interface.

      Thanks,
      Jonathan
    • corey986
      I got a high speed paper tape reader from a CNC machine. It will read standard paper tapes in 8 bit and send them to the serial or parallel ports on the unit.
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 19, 2013
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        I got a high speed paper tape reader from a CNC machine. It will read standard paper tapes in 8 bit and send them to the serial or parallel ports on the unit. I will use the RS232 and my SIO-A. I already check with someone who uses a similar unit with his Altair so I know that general CNC high speed readers will work.

        So now I just need to make paper tapes of my software to load. I also need to make a tape to modify basic so that I can use my parallel keyboard and my SSM Video card with basic.

        Eventually I need to find a solution to making tapes at home that doesn't involve me owning an ASR33, but for now I hope the generosity of others will help me.

        I'm also going to have to make a nice Walnut case for it (that matches my Sol-20) since it's a rack mount unit. I also need to order some reels as it doesn't come with them.

        Cheers,
        Corey

        --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Systems Glitch <systems.glitch@...> wrote:
        >
        > > OK, so I just got an RS232 high speed paper tape reader (Well it's in the mail).
        >
        > Heh, apparently now is the time to read paper tapes! Are you using this on the console port in place of an ASR-33? If not, e-mail me directly as I'm working on standardizing a S-100 paper tape reader hardware interface.
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Jonathan
        >
      • Evan Koblentz
        ... Why not?
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 19, 2013
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          >> that doesn't involve me owning an ASR33

          Why not?
        • corey986
          ... I forget. Your not married yet!! LOL Cheers, Corey
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 19, 2013
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            --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "Evan Koblentz" <evan@...> wrote:
            >
            > >> that doesn't involve me owning an ASR33
            >
            > Why not?
            >

            I forget. Your not married yet!! LOL

            Cheers,
            Corey
          • Dave McGuire
            ... *sigh* -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 19, 2013
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              On 03/19/2013 08:42 PM, corey986 wrote:
              >>>> that doesn't involve me owning an ASR33
              >>
              >> Why not?
              >
              > I forget. Your not married yet!! LOL

              *sigh*

              --
              Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
              New Kensington, PA
            • Matt Patoray
              ... I would not see why the ASR-33 would have a low WAF. It s just so cool! Matt
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 19, 2013
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                On Mar 19, 2013, at 8:42 PM, corey986 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                 


                --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "Evan Koblentz" <evan@...> wrote:
                >
                > >> that doesn't involve me owning an ASR33
                >
                > Why not?
                >

                I forget. Your not married yet!! 

                I would not see why the ASR-33 would have a low WAF.

                It's just so cool!

                Matt
              • David Gesswein
                ... Yes. ... The teletype I loaned was working when I brought it but it was reported to be jamming? punching tapes. I intended to look at it the last work day
                Message 7 of 16 , Mar 19, 2013
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                  On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 09:38:40PM -0000, corey986 wrote:
                  > That should solve my Altair loading issues except for one issue...
                  >
                  > Making tapes. Does anyone have the ability to help me make some paper
                  > tapes until I can buy or build something that can make paper tapes.
                  >
                  Yes.

                  > Do we have any equipment that works at MARCH that can make tapes.
                  > That would be the easiest. I will buy some paper tape rolls on ebay
                  > if we do.
                  >
                  The teletype I loaned was working when I brought it but it was reported to
                  be jamming? punching tapes. I intended to look at it the last work day
                  but had to leave early.
                • Evan Koblentz
                  ... reported to be jamming? punching tapes I might ve been using it wrong, but, Jeff J. said it s jamming and he knows better than I do. Corey and everyone
                  Message 8 of 16 , Mar 19, 2013
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                    >> The teletype I loaned was working when I brought it but it was
                    reported to be jamming? punching tapes

                    I might've been using it wrong, but, Jeff J. said it's jamming and he
                    knows better than I do.

                    Corey and everyone else: things like the museum -33 can definitely be
                    used by club members when needed.
                  • joshbensadon
                    ... I just finished cleaning and lubricating my punch. Some punches were sticking or not firing, but now it s working like a charm. I ran off a 1 to 255 tape
                    Message 9 of 16 , Mar 19, 2013
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                      --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, corey986 <no_reply@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Eventually I need to find a solution to making tapes at home that doesn't involve me owning an ASR33, but for now I hope the generosity of others will help me.

                      I just finished cleaning and lubricating my punch. Some punches were sticking or not firing, but now it's working like a charm. I ran off a 1 to 255 tape a few times without errors.

                      But I don't have much paper tape left and I'm all the way in Canada so shipping is expensive.

                      If you can afford to ship me some tape, I can punch what you want.

                      :)J
                    • Kyle Owen
                      I have a really clean Facit 4047 combo punch/reader, but I can t figure out what it takes to put it into binary mode. I ve got it punching ASCII with XON/XOFF,
                      Message 10 of 16 , Mar 19, 2013
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                        I have a really clean Facit 4047 combo punch/reader, but I can't figure out what it takes to put it into binary mode. I've got it punching ASCII with XON/XOFF, but I should be able to punch regular binary data by using hardware flow control. My current attempts have failed me, especially with the lack of documentation online. I've found two places that have helped, though. 
                        http://www.members.tripod.com/facit_facit/specsheets/4047.html (which tells me it can do "transparent" punching and hardware flow control)
                        https://engineering.purdue.edu/AAE/Academics/Courses/Raisbeck/images/resources/cnc/Manual/Editor/Editor.pdf (control+F "4047", explains some working parameters, but no indication on what each setting does)
                        It's completely different from the more common 4070, which is a parallel punch with no reader. I've been successful at reading and punching S19 load files for my SWTPC 6800, but again, nothing on the binary front. The "jumper settings" are completely electronic in numeric menus, and without knowing what they are, it's really quite hard to figure out. 

                        Kyle


                        On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 9:01 PM, joshbensadon <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                         

                        --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, corey986 <no_reply@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Eventually I need to find a solution to making tapes at home that doesn't involve me owning an ASR33, but for now I hope the generosity of others will help me.

                        I just finished cleaning and lubricating my punch. Some punches were sticking or not firing, but now it's working like a charm. I ran off a 1 to 255 tape a few times without errors.

                        But I don't have much paper tape left and I'm all the way in Canada so shipping is expensive.

                        If you can afford to ship me some tape, I can punch what you want.

                        :)J


                      • joshbensadon
                        ... I am using a Trend-DLC. To get mine to punch the 8th bit (really the 7th bit), I have to put it in Half Duplex mode. I m not sure why, but it works.
                        Message 11 of 16 , Mar 19, 2013
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                          --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Kyle Owen <kylevowen@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I have a really clean Facit 4047 combo punch/reader, but I can't figure out
                          > what it takes to put it into binary mode. I've got it punching ASCII with
                          > XON/XOFF, but I should be able to punch regular binary data by using
                          > hardware flow control. My current attempts have failed me, especially with


                          I am using a Trend-DLC. To get mine to punch the 8th bit (really the 7th bit), I have to put it in Half Duplex mode. I'm not sure why, but it works. This unit has a reader too, and I can put it into a copy mode, feed it some paper tape and it will punch a copy. But, again, the copy mode is a selection of other modes. There isn't a button simply labeled "Copy". In the back, it has a Modem and Printer port. I'm not sure how to use the Printer port, haven't played with that port yet.

                          For your punch, I guess you should just go through every possible combination. Something is bound to work.

                          :)J
                        • Kyle Owen
                          ... Interesting! Glad to hear you have had some success though. Mine has a very easy-to-use copy feature. It s simply a button labeled Copy and it most
                          Message 12 of 16 , Mar 19, 2013
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                            On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 11:41 PM, joshbensadon <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                            I am using a Trend-DLC. To get mine to punch the 8th bit (really the 7th bit), I have to put it in Half Duplex mode. I'm not sure why, but it works. This unit has a reader too, and I can put it into a copy mode, feed it some paper tape and it will punch a copy. But, again, the copy mode is a selection of other modes. There isn't a button simply labeled "Copy". In the back, it has a Modem and Printer port. I'm not sure how to use the Printer port, haven't played with that port yet.

                            Interesting! Glad to hear you have had some success though. Mine has a very easy-to-use copy feature. It's simply a button labeled "Copy" and it most certainly works! :) My unit has two DB-25 serial ports, both configurable independently in the settings. 

                            For your punch, I guess you should just go through every possible combination. Something is bound to work.

                            Well...that's a good number of settings! It validates the settings, but you don't always have an idea of what constitutes a valid setting until you try it. Thus, it would be quite time consuming! I wonder if I shouldn't just dump the EPROMs and disassemble them...it's only 6809 assembly (if I recall)! Albeit, many of the settings are just 0s and seem to not be terribly important. There are only 16 settings that seem as though they have a direct impact in making it work properly. 

                            In case you're curious, here's my manual dump of all of the settings in the menu: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8Ow1Wo1rBQUa0pJeV9WT2xScTQ/edit?usp=sharing

                            Kyle 

                          • corey986
                            Josh send me an email at corey986@yahoo.com, I want to ask you a question, but your profile doesn t let me send you an email. Thanks, Corey
                            Message 13 of 16 , Mar 20, 2013
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                              Josh send me an email at corey986@..., I want to ask you a question, but your profile doesn't let me send you an email.

                              Thanks,
                              Corey

                              --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, joshbensadon <no_reply@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Kyle Owen <kylevowen@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > I have a really clean Facit 4047 combo punch/reader, but I can't figure out
                              > > what it takes to put it into binary mode. I've got it punching ASCII with
                              > > XON/XOFF, but I should be able to punch regular binary data by using
                              > > hardware flow control. My current attempts have failed me, especially with
                              >
                              >
                              > I am using a Trend-DLC. To get mine to punch the 8th bit (really the 7th bit), I have to put it in Half Duplex mode. I'm not sure why, but it works. This unit has a reader too, and I can put it into a copy mode, feed it some paper tape and it will punch a copy. But, again, the copy mode is a selection of other modes. There isn't a button simply labeled "Copy". In the back, it has a Modem and Printer port. I'm not sure how to use the Printer port, haven't played with that port yet.
                              >
                              > For your punch, I guess you should just go through every possible combination. Something is bound to work.
                              >
                              > :)J
                              >
                            • joshbensadon
                              ... Wow, I can see how every combination will be very tedious and time consuming. I like the idea of reverse engineering the firmware, I ve always found that
                              Message 14 of 16 , Mar 20, 2013
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                                --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Kyle Owen <kylevowen@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > For your punch, I guess you should just go through every possible
                                > > combination. Something is bound to work.
                                > >
                                >
                                > Well...that's a good number of settings! It validates the settings, but you
                                > don't always have an idea of what constitutes a valid setting until you try
                                > it. Thus, it would be quite time consuming! I wonder if I shouldn't just
                                > dump the EPROMs and disassemble them...it's only 6809 assembly (if I
                                > recall)! Albeit, many of the settings are just 0s and seem to not be
                                > terribly important. There are only 16 settings that seem as though they
                                > have a direct impact in making it work properly.
                                >
                                > In case you're curious, here's my manual dump of all of the settings in the
                                > menu:
                                > https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8Ow1Wo1rBQUa0pJeV9WT2xScTQ/edit?usp=sharing
                                >
                                > Kyle


                                Wow, I can see how every combination will be very tedious and time consuming. I like the idea of reverse engineering the firmware, I've always found that kind of work to be stimulating. It's also less prone to cumulative problems. For instance, let's say by sequentially testing jumpers you hit upon the "8 bit mode" but what if the 8th pin is mechanically stuck? You'll be chasing your tail.
                                But if you go the reverse engineering way, you'll know the purpose of all the jumpers and how to set them. Then if the 8th pin doesn't fire, you'll know to look elsewhere (mechanics, drivers, etc).

                                :)J
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