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RE: [midatlanticretro] DEC PDP 11 and DSD 880

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  • Aliaga, Daniel G
    So, after some debugging tonight, I am pretty sure: 1. The fixed drive does not spin on powerup or ever. 2. I think it waits to see if it spins,
    Message 1 of 18 , Oct 4, 2012
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      So, after some debugging tonight, I am pretty sure:

       

       

      1.       The fixed drive does not spin on powerup or ever.

      2.       I think it waits to see if it spins, then gives a seek timeout error, and tries to boot from floppy. The seller did not know the status of the floppy drive, nor do I.

      3.       In the back of the DSD 800 there is a fuse for the Winchester Drive. Fuse measures out to be ok but if I pull the fuse, I get the same symptoms. So this means either no power is going to the motor or the motor is not blown. I can turn the motor by hand.

       

      Somehow I don’t think ‘3’ is strictly shipping related, maybe bad luck?

       

      I guess next step is figure out power lines to fixed drive and measure for live voltage? Somewhat dangerous because its suck way in there and lots of dissemble needed.

       

      Any other suggestions that are less invasive? I see the motor has a ground line (but colored red) and then come cables going in/out (about 3 or 4).

       

      ??

       

      Does someone have a spare motor for this? With effort I might be able to make out the brand + model…

       

      D.

       

       

       

       

       

      From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave McGuire
      Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:18 PM
      To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] DEC PDP 11 and DSD 880

       

       

      On 10/04/2012 10:09 PM, Aliaga, Daniel G wrote:

      > Detailed question:
      >
      > When the 880 is powered on should the fixed drive begin spinning
      > immediately or after 15-20 seconds of some diagnostics.

      I seem to recall them spinning up on powerup.

      > And how can I tell if it is spinning?

      Those drives are pretty loud. You should hear the "spin-up whine".

      > I think I see the metal axis of
      > the motor to which a belt is fastened and it does not rotate yet I get
      > seek time out error...?

      Oh, wait...Nearly all of the drive types that shipped in DSD-880s have
      spindle locks. Are you certain that the spindle is unlocked?

      -Dave

      --
      Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
      New Kensington, PA

    • Aliaga, Daniel G
      DEC PDP 8 and 11 Heathkit H89 Commodore/CBMs (e.g., PET 2001, etc) TRS 80 Model I Apple IIs, Apple III, Mac s, etc. IBMs: 5150, XT, PCJr, PS/2 Luggables:
      Message 2 of 18 , Oct 4, 2012
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        DEC PDP 8 and 11

        Heathkit H89

        Commodore/CBMs (e.g., PET 2001, etc)

        TRS 80 Model I

        Apple IIs, Apple III, Mac’s, etc.

        IBMs: 5150, XT, PCJr, PS/2

        Luggables: Compaq I, IBM’s, Kaypros, Osborne, etc.

        Home PCs: Atari’s, Commodore 64 and others, Timex, TI, Radio Shacks…

        Software, manuals, etc…

         

        You?

         

        D.

         

         

         

         

        From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave McGuire
        Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 11:38 PM
        To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] DEC PDP 11 and DSD 880

         

         

        On 10/04/2012 11:13 PM, Aliaga, Daniel G wrote:

        > I am a vintage aficionado as you guys J. Have about ~50 computers in my
        > collection, all worked when placed in collection and some I use for
        > demos. Have a dedicated room in th e house. Have 70s and 80s computers
        > (mostly 80s).

        Cool. Welcome! What sort of machines do you have, aside from that
        PDP-11?

        -Dave

        --
        Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
        New Kensington, PA

      • Dave McGuire
        ... Nice, which models? (we know about the 11/23) ... Do you know of the SEBHC mailing list? ... Excellent! ... Cray YMP-EL94 (runnable) Cray YMP-EL98 (2x)
        Message 3 of 18 , Oct 5, 2012
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          On 10/05/2012 12:35 AM, Aliaga, Daniel G wrote:
          > DEC PDP 8 and 11

          Nice, which models? (we know about the 11/23)

          > Heathkit H89

          Do you know of the SEBHC mailing list?

          > Commodore/CBMs (e.g., PET 2001, etc)
          > TRS 80 Model I
          > Apple IIs, Apple III, Mac’s, etc.
          > IBMs: 5150, XT, PCJr, PS/2
          > Luggables: Compaq I, IBM’s, Kaypros, Osborne, etc.
          > Home PCs: Atari’s, Commodore 64 and others, Timex, TI, Radio Shacks…
          > Software, manuals, etc…

          Excellent!

          > You?

          Hooboy. ;) I'm sure I've forgotten a few (this is a big place), but:

          ----------------------------------------------------------------------
          Old systems considered part of the "collection" for preservation and study:
          -----------------
          Cray YMP-EL94 (runnable)
          Cray YMP-EL98 (2x)
          Cray J916 8/128 (runnable)
          Cray J916 4/128 (not yet runnable)

          DEC DECsystem-2020 (PDP-10) (2x)
          DEC PDP-8/e (three, two runnable)
          DEC PDP-8/m (runnable)
          DEC PDP-8/a
          Spare Time Gizmos SBC6120 (tiny PDP-8 SBC)
          DEC PDP-11/03 (many, some runnable)
          DEC PDP-11/04 (two, one runnable)
          DEC PDP-11/05
          DEC PDP-11/23 (several, some runnable)
          DEC PDP-11/24 (runnable)
          DEC PDP-11/34a (2x, one runnable)
          DEC PDP-11/44 (4x)
          DEC PDP-11/50
          DEC PDP-11/53 (2x, runnable)
          DEC PDP-11/70 (runnable)
          DEC PDP-11/73 (several, some runnable)
          DEC PDP-11/83 (runnable)
          DEC PDP-11/84 (3x, one runnable)
          DEC PDP-11/94 (not runnable)
          DEC VT180 "Robin" (not running, need floppy cable)
          DEC VAX-11/730
          DEC VAX-11/750
          DEC MicroVAX-I
          DEC MicroVAX-II/VAXstation-II (many in various states)
          DEC MicroVAX-2000 (several in various states)
          DEC MicroVAX-3 (several in various states)
          DEC MicroVAX/VAXstation 3100 (countless, in various states)
          DEC MicroVAX-3100/80
          DEC VAXstation4000-VLC (2x, runnable)
          DEC VAXstation4000-60 (2x, runnable)
          DEC VAXstation4000-90 (2x, runnable)
          DEC VAX4000-300 (two, runnable)
          DEC VAX4000-400 (2x, runnable)
          DEC VAX4000-500 (runnable)
          DEC VAX4000-600 (runnable)
          DEC VAX4000-700a (2x, runnable)
          DEC VAX7000-720 (runnable)
          DEC VAX8250 (runnable)
          DEC rtVAX-300 on 6U VME module
          DEC DECmate-I
          DEC DECmate-II
          DEC DECmate-III+
          DEC Professional 350
          DEC Professional 380
          DEC DECstation-2100
          DEC DECstation-3100 (several)
          TONS AND TONS (literally) of VAX & PDP parts, enough to build dozens of
          systems
          one or two older Alpha 3000-series machines
          Many others...been into DEC for a LONG time, got my first PDP 30yrs ago.

          The standard complement of Commodore, Atari, and Apple machines

          Floating Point Systems AP-180V (VAX-interfaced version of AP-120)

          IBM RT (tower chassis, runnable)
          IBM RT (desktop chassis, runnable)
          IBM RS/6000s (several, various models, some old, some not)
          IMSAI 8080 (runnable)
          SWTPC 6800 (3rd-party chassis)
          TRS-80 models I, II, III, 4, 16, CoCo, CoCo2, MC-10
          HP-85
          HP-87XM
          HP-2108A

          Kaypro-II
          Kaypro-10
          Kaypro-16
          Osborne 1 (2x)
          Osborne Vixen
          Commodore PET 2001 (non-Chiclet)
          Heathkit H-8
          Heathkit H-89 (3x)
          NEC APC
          Olivetti M20
          Burroughs B80 (2x)
          Data General S/280
          IBM S/370 model 9375
          IBM System/36 model 5360
          Heath H-1 analog computer (tubes!)
          Comdyna GP-6 analog computer
          Symbolics 3640 Lisp Machine (not running)
          Symbolics 3645 Lisp Machine (not running)
          Symbolics XL1201 Lisp Machine (running)

          SGI Origin 2000 (dual-chassis, rack config)
          SGI O2 (3x)

          Several Sun 2/170 board sets (no chassis anymore, sigh)
          Several Sun 3/1xx, 3/2xx, and 4/xxx systems
          Many Sun SPARCstation-1/-1+/-2/-IPC/-IPX/-LX/-Classic/-5/-10/-20 systems
          No-name Transputer array, 16x T800 transputers w/ISA interface

          Lots of single-board computers, processor eval & development boards for:
          - Am2901
          - 8085
          - 8086
          - Z80 (3x, my homebrew)
          - 6800
          - 68HC05
          - 68HC11
          - 6502

          ASR-33 Teletype
          Friden Flexowriter SPS

          Countless peripherals...disk and tape drives, printers, terminals..

          -------------------------------

          Production systems
          (how I put dinner on the table)
          -------------------------------
          Core i7-Quad desktop running Linux (primary desktop system)
          Lenovo V570 laptop, Core i5 running Linux
          Sun Fire V480 (4x US-III+ CPUs, 32GB, does all the heavy lifting)
          Sun T1000
          Sun Netra V100 (DNS, firewall)
          HP DL585 quad dual-core Opteron (VMware host)
          RS/6000 397, hosting a P/390 running OS/390 and VM/ESA (software
          development)


          Non-production systems
          (modern or nearly so, but not currently involved in making a living)
          -----------------------------------
          Cray SV1
          IBM z/890
          SGI Origin 3000
          About six large Sun FirePlane-based systems (SF3800, SF4800, SF6800)
          AlphaServer DS10L, VMS
          ----------------------------------------------------------------------

          -Dave

          --
          Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
          New Kensington, PA
        • Dave McGuire
          ... Have you checked for a shipping lock? ... Ahh ok, so no spindle lock at least. Check for a shipping lock on the head carriage. BUT...be very careful
          Message 4 of 18 , Oct 5, 2012
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            On 10/05/2012 12:30 AM, Aliaga, Daniel G wrote:
            > So, after some debugging tonight, I am pretty sure:
            >
            > 1. The fixed drive does not spin on powerup or ever.
            >
            > 2. I think it waits to see if it spins, then gives a seek timeout
            > error, and tries to boot from floppy. The seller did not know the status
            > of the floppy drive, nor do I.

            Have you checked for a shipping lock?

            > 3. In the back of the DSD 800 there is a fuse for the Winchester
            > Drive. Fuse measures out to be ok but if I pull the fuse, I get the same
            > symptoms. So this means either no power is going to the motor or the
            > motor is not blown. I can turn the motor by hand.

            Ahh ok, so no spindle lock at least. Check for a shipping lock on the
            head carriage. BUT...be very careful rotating the spindle by hand! In
            some drive designs, turning it backward can cause the head to dig into
            the media.

            > I guess next step is figure out power lines to fixed drive and measure
            > for live voltage? Somewhat dangerous because its suck way in there and
            > lots of dissemble needed.

            I think you're going to end up needing to disassemble it anyway.

            -Dave

            --
            Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
            New Kensington, PA
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