Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [midatlanticretro] DEC PDP 11 and DSD 880

Expand Messages
  • Dave McGuire
    ... I seem to recall them spinning up on powerup. ... Those drives are pretty loud. You should hear the spin-up whine . ... Oh, wait...Nearly all of the
    Message 1 of 18 , Oct 4, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      On 10/04/2012 10:09 PM, Aliaga, Daniel G wrote:
      > Detailed question:
      >
      > When the 880 is powered on should the fixed drive begin spinning
      > immediately or after 15-20 seconds of some diagnostics.

      I seem to recall them spinning up on powerup.

      > And how can I tell if it is spinning?

      Those drives are pretty loud. You should hear the "spin-up whine".

      > I think I see the metal axis of
      > the motor to which a belt is fastened and it does not rotate yet I get
      > seek time out error...?

      Oh, wait...Nearly all of the drive types that shipped in DSD-880s have
      spindle locks. Are you certain that the spindle is unlocked?

      -Dave

      --
      Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
      New Kensington, PA
    • Dave McGuire
      ... Oh really?? The last time I looked around (at Bitsavers first) I found nothing. I guess, wow, that was probably 7-8 years ago though. 8-/ -Dave -- Dave
      Message 2 of 18 , Oct 4, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        On 10/04/2012 10:10 PM, Aliaga, Daniel G wrote:
        >
        >
        > I have all the original manuals-- they are online too.

        Oh really?? The last time I looked around (at Bitsavers first) I
        found nothing.

        I guess, wow, that was probably 7-8 years ago though. 8-/

        -Dave

        --
        Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
        New Kensington, PA
      • Dave McGuire
        ... (translation: EVAN prefers bottom replies ;)) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
        Message 3 of 18 , Oct 4, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          On 10/04/2012 10:16 PM, Evan Koblentz wrote:
          >>> I have a recently acquired DEC PDP 1123 with DSD 880 (fixed drive + floppy drive)
          >
          > Dan,
          >
          > Welcome to our list. Please introduce yourself.
          >
          > Also, we prefer bottom replies.
          >
          > - Evan K. / list benign dictator

          (translation: EVAN prefers bottom replies ;))

          -Dave

          --
          Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
          New Kensington, PA
        • Aliaga, Daniel G
          Ok :) I am a vintage aficionado as you guys :). Have about ~50 computers in my collection, all worked when placed in collection and some I use for demos. Have
          Message 4 of 18 , Oct 4, 2012
          • 0 Attachment

             

            Ok J

             

            I am a vintage aficionado as you guys J. Have about ~50 computers in my collection, all worked when placed in collection and some I use for demos. Have a dedicated room in the house. Have 70s and 80s computers (mostly 80s).

             

            I just got this DEC PDP – private sale, seems to be extremely well taken care of but something happened during shipping (maybe)? Was packed by UPS and they seemed to do a great job.

             

            One of the connectors inside the DSD unit was disconnected during shipping – does that mean it got jostled strongly? The connector is quite snug when connected, so I would assume it was kinda loose, because to loosen it with a “drop” it would have to been dropped from quite a height…

             

            Still trying several options.

             

            Yes, spindle and head were locked, both unlocked now I believe (using the instructions from the manual…).

             

            I live in West Lafayette – go Boilermakers!

             

            D.

             

             

            From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Evan Koblentz
            Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:17 PM
            To: MARCH Yahoo Midatlanticretro
            Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] DEC PDP 11 and DSD 880

             

             

            >> I have a recently acquired DEC PDP 1123 with DSD 880 (fixed drive + floppy drive)

            Dan,

            Welcome to our list. Please introduce yourself.

            Also, we prefer bottom replies.

            - Evan K. / list benign dictator

          • Aliaga, Daniel G
            Here you go: ftp://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/dsd/040034-01_DSD880x_Nov81.pdf D. From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
            Message 5 of 18 , Oct 4, 2012
            • 0 Attachment

              Here you go:

               

              ftp://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/dsd/040034-01_DSD880x_Nov81.pdf

               

              D.

               

              From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave McGuire
              Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:19 PM
              To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] DEC PDP 11 and DSD 880

               

               

              On 10/04/2012 10:10 PM, Aliaga, Daniel G wrote:

              >
              >
              > I have all the original manuals-- they are online too.

              Oh really?? The last time I looked around (at Bitsavers first) I
              found nothing.

              I guess, wow, that was probably 7-8 years ago though. 8-/

              -Dave

              --
              Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
              New Kensington, PA

            • Dave McGuire
              ... And of course, the darned thing has been sitting on one of my own damn disk arrays for months. ;) (I have a bitsavers mirror here) -Dave -- Dave McGuire,
              Message 6 of 18 , Oct 4, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                On 10/04/2012 11:14 PM, Aliaga, Daniel G wrote:
                > Here you go:
                >
                >
                >
                > ftp://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/dsd/040034-01_DSD880x_Nov81.pdf

                And of course, the darned thing has been sitting on one of my own damn
                disk arrays for months. ;) (I have a bitsavers mirror here)

                -Dave

                --
                Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                New Kensington, PA
              • Dave McGuire
                ... Cool. Welcome! What sort of machines do you have, aside from that PDP-11? -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
                Message 7 of 18 , Oct 4, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  On 10/04/2012 11:13 PM, Aliaga, Daniel G wrote:
                  > I am a vintage aficionado as you guys J. Have about ~50 computers in my
                  > collection, all worked when placed in collection and some I use for
                  > demos. Have a dedicated room in th e house. Have 70s and 80s computers
                  > (mostly 80s).

                  Cool. Welcome! What sort of machines do you have, aside from that
                  PDP-11?

                  -Dave

                  --
                  Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                  New Kensington, PA
                • Aliaga, Daniel G
                  So, after some debugging tonight, I am pretty sure: 1. The fixed drive does not spin on powerup or ever. 2. I think it waits to see if it spins,
                  Message 8 of 18 , Oct 4, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment

                     

                    So, after some debugging tonight, I am pretty sure:

                     

                     

                    1.       The fixed drive does not spin on powerup or ever.

                    2.       I think it waits to see if it spins, then gives a seek timeout error, and tries to boot from floppy. The seller did not know the status of the floppy drive, nor do I.

                    3.       In the back of the DSD 800 there is a fuse for the Winchester Drive. Fuse measures out to be ok but if I pull the fuse, I get the same symptoms. So this means either no power is going to the motor or the motor is not blown. I can turn the motor by hand.

                     

                    Somehow I don’t think ‘3’ is strictly shipping related, maybe bad luck?

                     

                    I guess next step is figure out power lines to fixed drive and measure for live voltage? Somewhat dangerous because its suck way in there and lots of dissemble needed.

                     

                    Any other suggestions that are less invasive? I see the motor has a ground line (but colored red) and then come cables going in/out (about 3 or 4).

                     

                    ??

                     

                    Does someone have a spare motor for this? With effort I might be able to make out the brand + model…

                     

                    D.

                     

                     

                     

                     

                     

                    From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave McGuire
                    Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:18 PM
                    To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] DEC PDP 11 and DSD 880

                     

                     

                    On 10/04/2012 10:09 PM, Aliaga, Daniel G wrote:

                    > Detailed question:
                    >
                    > When the 880 is powered on should the fixed drive begin spinning
                    > immediately or after 15-20 seconds of some diagnostics.

                    I seem to recall them spinning up on powerup.

                    > And how can I tell if it is spinning?

                    Those drives are pretty loud. You should hear the "spin-up whine".

                    > I think I see the metal axis of
                    > the motor to which a belt is fastened and it does not rotate yet I get
                    > seek time out error...?

                    Oh, wait...Nearly all of the drive types that shipped in DSD-880s have
                    spindle locks. Are you certain that the spindle is unlocked?

                    -Dave

                    --
                    Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                    New Kensington, PA

                  • Aliaga, Daniel G
                    DEC PDP 8 and 11 Heathkit H89 Commodore/CBMs (e.g., PET 2001, etc) TRS 80 Model I Apple IIs, Apple III, Mac s, etc. IBMs: 5150, XT, PCJr, PS/2 Luggables:
                    Message 9 of 18 , Oct 4, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment

                       

                      DEC PDP 8 and 11

                      Heathkit H89

                      Commodore/CBMs (e.g., PET 2001, etc)

                      TRS 80 Model I

                      Apple IIs, Apple III, Mac’s, etc.

                      IBMs: 5150, XT, PCJr, PS/2

                      Luggables: Compaq I, IBM’s, Kaypros, Osborne, etc.

                      Home PCs: Atari’s, Commodore 64 and others, Timex, TI, Radio Shacks…

                      Software, manuals, etc…

                       

                      You?

                       

                      D.

                       

                       

                       

                       

                      From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave McGuire
                      Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 11:38 PM
                      To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] DEC PDP 11 and DSD 880

                       

                       

                      On 10/04/2012 11:13 PM, Aliaga, Daniel G wrote:

                      > I am a vintage aficionado as you guys J. Have about ~50 computers in my
                      > collection, all worked when placed in collection and some I use for
                      > demos. Have a dedicated room in th e house. Have 70s and 80s computers
                      > (mostly 80s).

                      Cool. Welcome! What sort of machines do you have, aside from that
                      PDP-11?

                      -Dave

                      --
                      Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                      New Kensington, PA

                    • Dave McGuire
                      ... Nice, which models? (we know about the 11/23) ... Do you know of the SEBHC mailing list? ... Excellent! ... Cray YMP-EL94 (runnable) Cray YMP-EL98 (2x)
                      Message 10 of 18 , Oct 5, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        On 10/05/2012 12:35 AM, Aliaga, Daniel G wrote:
                        > DEC PDP 8 and 11

                        Nice, which models? (we know about the 11/23)

                        > Heathkit H89

                        Do you know of the SEBHC mailing list?

                        > Commodore/CBMs (e.g., PET 2001, etc)
                        > TRS 80 Model I
                        > Apple IIs, Apple III, Mac’s, etc.
                        > IBMs: 5150, XT, PCJr, PS/2
                        > Luggables: Compaq I, IBM’s, Kaypros, Osborne, etc.
                        > Home PCs: Atari’s, Commodore 64 and others, Timex, TI, Radio Shacks…
                        > Software, manuals, etc…

                        Excellent!

                        > You?

                        Hooboy. ;) I'm sure I've forgotten a few (this is a big place), but:

                        ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                        Old systems considered part of the "collection" for preservation and study:
                        -----------------
                        Cray YMP-EL94 (runnable)
                        Cray YMP-EL98 (2x)
                        Cray J916 8/128 (runnable)
                        Cray J916 4/128 (not yet runnable)

                        DEC DECsystem-2020 (PDP-10) (2x)
                        DEC PDP-8/e (three, two runnable)
                        DEC PDP-8/m (runnable)
                        DEC PDP-8/a
                        Spare Time Gizmos SBC6120 (tiny PDP-8 SBC)
                        DEC PDP-11/03 (many, some runnable)
                        DEC PDP-11/04 (two, one runnable)
                        DEC PDP-11/05
                        DEC PDP-11/23 (several, some runnable)
                        DEC PDP-11/24 (runnable)
                        DEC PDP-11/34a (2x, one runnable)
                        DEC PDP-11/44 (4x)
                        DEC PDP-11/50
                        DEC PDP-11/53 (2x, runnable)
                        DEC PDP-11/70 (runnable)
                        DEC PDP-11/73 (several, some runnable)
                        DEC PDP-11/83 (runnable)
                        DEC PDP-11/84 (3x, one runnable)
                        DEC PDP-11/94 (not runnable)
                        DEC VT180 "Robin" (not running, need floppy cable)
                        DEC VAX-11/730
                        DEC VAX-11/750
                        DEC MicroVAX-I
                        DEC MicroVAX-II/VAXstation-II (many in various states)
                        DEC MicroVAX-2000 (several in various states)
                        DEC MicroVAX-3 (several in various states)
                        DEC MicroVAX/VAXstation 3100 (countless, in various states)
                        DEC MicroVAX-3100/80
                        DEC VAXstation4000-VLC (2x, runnable)
                        DEC VAXstation4000-60 (2x, runnable)
                        DEC VAXstation4000-90 (2x, runnable)
                        DEC VAX4000-300 (two, runnable)
                        DEC VAX4000-400 (2x, runnable)
                        DEC VAX4000-500 (runnable)
                        DEC VAX4000-600 (runnable)
                        DEC VAX4000-700a (2x, runnable)
                        DEC VAX7000-720 (runnable)
                        DEC VAX8250 (runnable)
                        DEC rtVAX-300 on 6U VME module
                        DEC DECmate-I
                        DEC DECmate-II
                        DEC DECmate-III+
                        DEC Professional 350
                        DEC Professional 380
                        DEC DECstation-2100
                        DEC DECstation-3100 (several)
                        TONS AND TONS (literally) of VAX & PDP parts, enough to build dozens of
                        systems
                        one or two older Alpha 3000-series machines
                        Many others...been into DEC for a LONG time, got my first PDP 30yrs ago.

                        The standard complement of Commodore, Atari, and Apple machines

                        Floating Point Systems AP-180V (VAX-interfaced version of AP-120)

                        IBM RT (tower chassis, runnable)
                        IBM RT (desktop chassis, runnable)
                        IBM RS/6000s (several, various models, some old, some not)
                        IMSAI 8080 (runnable)
                        SWTPC 6800 (3rd-party chassis)
                        TRS-80 models I, II, III, 4, 16, CoCo, CoCo2, MC-10
                        HP-85
                        HP-87XM
                        HP-2108A

                        Kaypro-II
                        Kaypro-10
                        Kaypro-16
                        Osborne 1 (2x)
                        Osborne Vixen
                        Commodore PET 2001 (non-Chiclet)
                        Heathkit H-8
                        Heathkit H-89 (3x)
                        NEC APC
                        Olivetti M20
                        Burroughs B80 (2x)
                        Data General S/280
                        IBM S/370 model 9375
                        IBM System/36 model 5360
                        Heath H-1 analog computer (tubes!)
                        Comdyna GP-6 analog computer
                        Symbolics 3640 Lisp Machine (not running)
                        Symbolics 3645 Lisp Machine (not running)
                        Symbolics XL1201 Lisp Machine (running)

                        SGI Origin 2000 (dual-chassis, rack config)
                        SGI O2 (3x)

                        Several Sun 2/170 board sets (no chassis anymore, sigh)
                        Several Sun 3/1xx, 3/2xx, and 4/xxx systems
                        Many Sun SPARCstation-1/-1+/-2/-IPC/-IPX/-LX/-Classic/-5/-10/-20 systems
                        No-name Transputer array, 16x T800 transputers w/ISA interface

                        Lots of single-board computers, processor eval & development boards for:
                        - Am2901
                        - 8085
                        - 8086
                        - Z80 (3x, my homebrew)
                        - 6800
                        - 68HC05
                        - 68HC11
                        - 6502

                        ASR-33 Teletype
                        Friden Flexowriter SPS

                        Countless peripherals...disk and tape drives, printers, terminals..

                        -------------------------------

                        Production systems
                        (how I put dinner on the table)
                        -------------------------------
                        Core i7-Quad desktop running Linux (primary desktop system)
                        Lenovo V570 laptop, Core i5 running Linux
                        Sun Fire V480 (4x US-III+ CPUs, 32GB, does all the heavy lifting)
                        Sun T1000
                        Sun Netra V100 (DNS, firewall)
                        HP DL585 quad dual-core Opteron (VMware host)
                        RS/6000 397, hosting a P/390 running OS/390 and VM/ESA (software
                        development)


                        Non-production systems
                        (modern or nearly so, but not currently involved in making a living)
                        -----------------------------------
                        Cray SV1
                        IBM z/890
                        SGI Origin 3000
                        About six large Sun FirePlane-based systems (SF3800, SF4800, SF6800)
                        AlphaServer DS10L, VMS
                        ----------------------------------------------------------------------

                        -Dave

                        --
                        Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                        New Kensington, PA
                      • Dave McGuire
                        ... Have you checked for a shipping lock? ... Ahh ok, so no spindle lock at least. Check for a shipping lock on the head carriage. BUT...be very careful
                        Message 11 of 18 , Oct 5, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          On 10/05/2012 12:30 AM, Aliaga, Daniel G wrote:
                          > So, after some debugging tonight, I am pretty sure:
                          >
                          > 1. The fixed drive does not spin on powerup or ever.
                          >
                          > 2. I think it waits to see if it spins, then gives a seek timeout
                          > error, and tries to boot from floppy. The seller did not know the status
                          > of the floppy drive, nor do I.

                          Have you checked for a shipping lock?

                          > 3. In the back of the DSD 800 there is a fuse for the Winchester
                          > Drive. Fuse measures out to be ok but if I pull the fuse, I get the same
                          > symptoms. So this means either no power is going to the motor or the
                          > motor is not blown. I can turn the motor by hand.

                          Ahh ok, so no spindle lock at least. Check for a shipping lock on the
                          head carriage. BUT...be very careful rotating the spindle by hand! In
                          some drive designs, turning it backward can cause the head to dig into
                          the media.

                          > I guess next step is figure out power lines to fixed drive and measure
                          > for live voltage? Somewhat dangerous because its suck way in there and
                          > lots of dissemble needed.

                          I think you're going to end up needing to disassemble it anyway.

                          -Dave

                          --
                          Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                          New Kensington, PA
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.