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Re: [midatlanticretro] Re: Analog Computers - General description (long)

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  • Evan Koblentz
    ... Awesome. Tell Zig I said hello.
    Message 1 of 18 , Sep 24 3:37 PM
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      >>> My contact with Zbigniew should also be credited to Bill and Evan's Hope presentation. I live 10 minutes from York and have been visiting the campus for years but have never known about their Vintage Computer Museum until now.

      Awesome. Tell Zig I said hello.
    • B. Degnan
      ... Univeristy Museum operated by Zbigniew Stachniak. I York, PA? ... Hope presentation. I live 10 minutes from York and have been visiting the campus for
      Message 2 of 18 , Sep 24 6:51 PM
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        > >
        >
        > Please let me explain. It's not my computer, but it belongs to the York
        Univeristy Museum operated by Zbigniew Stachniak. I


        York, PA?

        >
        > PS. My contact with Zbigniew should also be credited to Bill and Evan's
        Hope presentation. I live 10 minutes from York and have been visiting the
        campus for years but have never known about their Vintage Computer Museum
        until now.
        >

        I live kind of close and would be interested to drive out some time to
        check it out.

        http://www.cse.yorku.ca/museum/

        What's actually on display there?

        Bill
      • Evan Koblentz
        ... Toronto, Canada.
        Message 3 of 18 , Sep 24 7:01 PM
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          >> York, PA?

          Toronto, Canada.
        • joshbensadon
          ... No, York University in Toronto, Ontario. ... I m a newbie at old computers, so I ll probably miss a few key systems. I think Zbigniew s favorite is the MCM
          Message 4 of 18 , Sep 24 7:42 PM
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            --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "B. Degnan" <billdeg@...> wrote:
            > York Univeristy Museum operated by Zbigniew Stachniak. I
            >
            >
            > York, PA?
            >

            No, York University in Toronto, Ontario.

            > What's actually on display there?
            >


            I'm a newbie at old computers, so I'll probably miss a few key systems.
            I think Zbigniew's favorite is the MCM 70 computer, he wrote a whole book on it. There are lots of other systems as you saw in the web link you provided, but I'm not sure what's worth mentioning? Dynalogic systems? There's some of the the more familiar common systems, but several word processors and obsure ones I don't remember the names of. But there is a whole line of MCM computers. These were based on the 8008 and when that processor became too slow, they went the way of emulating the processor with faster logic chips so they wouldn't have to re-write software.

            Anytime you're in Toronto, I'd be happy to show you around.

            Cheers,
            Josh
          • Jim Scheef
            Josh, Did you ever get any response to your question? I think of an analog computer as a device that models a problem and thus calculates the answer by
            Message 5 of 18 , Dec 8, 2012
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              Josh,

              Did you ever get any response to your question?

              I think of an analog computer as a device that models a problem and thus 'calculates' the answer by varying inputs to the model and then measuring an output. Accuracy depended on the accuracy of the model which could be rods and gears or electric circuits or both. Analog computers that are used today include tide clocks or the more common clocks what show the phase of the moon (location is one of the inputs). Big analog computers in the 30's were used to 'solve' multiple differential equations. Artillery tables are the most common example from WWII.

              The Wikipedia article is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_computer

              Jim

              On 9/7/2012 7:50 PM, joshbensadon wrote:
               

              I'm trying to learn something about these old computers. First of all, do they actually follow program steps? I always equated the term computers with something that can follow directions, calculate numbers, make decisions based on the results. How were these old computers used? Who used them? etc.


            • Bob Schwier
              ________________________________ From: Jim Scheef To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2012 9:44 AM Subject:
              Message 6 of 18 , Dec 8, 2012
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                From: Jim Scheef <scheefj@...>
                To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2012 9:44 AM
                Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Analog Computers - General description

                 
                Josh,

                Did you ever get any response to your question?

                I think of an analog computer as a device that models a problem and thus 'calculates' the answer by varying inputs to the model and then measuring an output. Accuracy depended on the accuracy of the model which could be rods and gears or electric circuits or both. Analog computers that are used today include tide clocks or the more common clocks what show the phase of the moon (location is one of the inputs). Big analog computers in the 30's were used to 'solve' multiple differential equations. Artillery tables are the most common example from WWII.

                The Wikipedia article is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_computer

                Jim

                On 9/7/2012 7:50 PM, joshbensadon wrote:
                 
                I'm trying to learn something about these old computers. First of all, do they actually follow program steps? I always equated the term computers with something that can follow directions, calculate numbers, make decisions based on the results. How were these old computers used? Who used them? etc.
                We still used analogue computing systems in the Navy in the 1970's.  Each synchro could be adjusted with a pot which
                one tweaked in with a small screwdriver.  When one got the last pot tweaked in one went back and started over to
                make sure that the whole system was still in alignment.  The system was hard wired with no significantly changeable
                components.
                bs


              • Ken
                ... I just happened to have discovered this great video a couple of days ago. It s a 50 s US Navy instructional film about the mechanical computers they used.
                Message 7 of 18 , Dec 8, 2012
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                  On 9/7/2012 7:50 PM, joshbensadon wrote:
                  >I'm trying to learn something about these old computers. First of all, do they actually follow program steps? I always equated the term computers with something that can follow directions, calculate numbers, make decisions based on the results. How were these old computers used? Who used them? etc.

                  I just happened to have discovered this great video a couple of days ago. It's a 50's US Navy instructional film about the mechanical computers they used. It's really eye-opening and very high quality. (It gets to the meat about two minutes in.) For me, it demonstrated the analog/mathematical approach, in contrast to the digital/logical approach I grew up learning.
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1i-dnAH9Y4

                  - Ken
                • s100doctor
                  ... http://www.eugeneleeslover.com/VIDEOS/fire_control_computer_1.html It looks like the site linked above is a primary Web source for WWII and later Naval
                  Message 8 of 18 , Dec 10, 2012
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                    --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Ken <kenzolist@...> wrote:

                    > I just happened to have discovered this great video a couple of days ago. It's a 50's US Navy instructional film about the mechanical computers they used. It's really eye-opening and very high quality. (It gets to the meat about two minutes in.) For me, it demonstrated the analog/mathematical approach, in contrast to the digital/logical approach I grew up learning.
                    > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1i-dnAH9Y4
                    >
                    > - Ken
                    >
                    http://www.eugeneleeslover.com/VIDEOS/fire_control_computer_1.html

                    It looks like the site linked above is a primary Web source for WWII and later Naval fire control computer documents. It may be the original source for the video referenced above, or certainly an earlier one.

                    These control computers used rotational position (radius vs angle) as means of expressing an analog function. One input variable was a cam on a shaft; two input variables was a surface on a cylinder. By cascading, you could have several variables per output. The video series shows this, and the Navy textbooks on the site above explain further.

                    Mechanical computers like this were "programmed" by manufacture; one design equals one program. Electronic analog computers were programmed by wiring panels and adjusting components, as well as by design or by hard-wire. Hybrid analog computers, made the connections and adjustments digitally.

                    I knew nothing about the above, until I did some Web searching based on the reference first given. It's good to see more ancient technology on the Web. In this case, advanced WW II technology, digitized from books and films.

                    Herb Johnson
                  • William Donzelli
                    ... I think some of these are originally from the Historic Naval Ships Association. There is a group of us ship geeks that are also trying to save and archive
                    Message 9 of 18 , Dec 10, 2012
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                      > http://www.eugeneleeslover.com/VIDEOS/fire_control_computer_1.html
                      >
                      > It looks like the site linked above is a primary Web source for WWII and
                      > later Naval fire control computer documents. It may be the original source
                      > for the video referenced above, or certainly an earlier one.

                      I think some of these are originally from the Historic Naval Ships
                      Association. There is a group of us ship geeks that are also trying to
                      save and archive the technology, bitsavers style.

                      > These control computers used rotational position (radius vs angle) as
                      > means of expressing an analog function. One input variable was a cam on a
                      > shaft; two input variables was a surface on a cylinder. By cascading, you
                      > could have several variables per output.

                      There is also a class of fire control computers that used linear
                      displacement of levers and linkages, rather than rotation. These
                      machines were much cheaper to make, but not quite as accurate. And of
                      course, there were hybrids of all sorts. I had a small collecton of
                      small machines and assemblies at VFC East number 2.

                      Trivia - there are two Mk 4 Torpedo Data Computers still in active
                      service, in the Taiwan Navy. They have been in near continuous service
                      since 1946.

                      --
                      Will
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