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re: [midatlanticretro] Re: Anyone have a bin or hex of the 8080 Apple ROM Monitor (not apple computer)

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  • B. Degnan
    I can tell you this - an Altair ain t no Apple I as far as getting it to work goes. I have been working to sort of master these beasts for the past 7 years,
    Message 1 of 31 , Aug 22, 2012
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      I can tell you this - an Altair ain't no Apple I as far as getting it to
      work goes. I have been working to sort of master these beasts for the past
      7 years, starting pretty much from scratch. It's a lot of work, but it's
      worth it. I am happy to help, and there were a lot of great people
      including Herb, Bill Sudebrink, and Dan Roganti who were very patient with
      me to teach me what I needed to know back in the mid 2000's. If you first
      study the manuals and try to work through what you can in advance, let me
      know when you're at a stopping point.

      The MITS PIO would be if you wanted to use a keyboard separate from your
      terminal.

      First you have to just get the basic functionality, return memory and that
      sort of thing. You may not need to swap out the backplane and power
      supply. Test it first.

      Bill

      -------- Original Message --------
      > From: "corey986" <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 5:24 PM
      > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [midatlanticretro] Re: Anyone have a bin or hex of the 8080
      Apple ROM Monitor (not apple computer)
      >
      > Bill,
      > The serial IO card I acquired is in the mail separately from the Altair
      since it came from someone else, when I get it I will email you and Herb
      directly with the info. I will appreciate any help you guys can give me.
      I repay help in beer and wings :-)
      >
      > The Altair I have coming only has a MITS PIO card and I can't use that
      since I only have a serial terminal. I'd love to find a MITS SIO but I
      understand they are very hard to find. I also want to stick with the 8080
      over the Z80 since this system has the original CPU card.
      >
      > I'm just starting my parts gathering and research so there is no rush, I
      still have to rebuilt the power-supply, replace the motherboard with a nice
      spare I just acquired (the current one has a lifted trace or two) and then
      start the slow process of unit testing each piece before I risk them. Oh
      and I need to find an AM radio... Gotta try that "fool on the hill" thing
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Corey
      >
      > --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "B. Degnan" <billdeg@...>
      wrote:
      > >
      > > Corey,
      > >
      > > Before you start with the monitor, you need to know what hardware
      you're
      > > working with. The chance that the Apple ROM will work in a random set
      of
      > > I/O card, ePROM card, and RAM combo is not great.
      > >
      > > Most people have Z80 monitors, there are less 8080 monitors out there.

      > >
      > > What is the card configuration of the Altair 8800 you bought? You need
      for
      > > example to know the ports used by the I/O card, the monitor will use a

      > > specific I/O port, your card and monitor must be in synch. You need to

      > > store the monitor in a ePROM card of some kind, the newer ROM/RAM
      boards
      > > are not always compatible with the old Altair S-100 bus. Etc. There
      is a
      > > lot to getting an 8080 monitor running on an Altair, why most people
      > > switched to the Z80.
      > >
      > > Bill
      > >
      > > -------- Original Message --------
      > > > From: "corey986" <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
      > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 3:40 PM
      > > > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Subject: [midatlanticretro] Re: Anyone have a bin or hex of the 8080

      > > Apple ROM Monitor (not apple computer)
      > > >
      > > > Thanks...
      > > >
      > > > It is of interest as I need a monitor for my soon to be in the mail

      > > Altair. After a complete teardown and restoration of the system I will

      > > need one so that I can use with it. I don't want to have to toggle in
      a
      > > boot loader every time just so that I can use a serial card or tape
      > > reader.
      > > >
      > > > I was reading the Apple Monitor PDF from the internet and it seemed
      > > pretty period correct and powerful for what it was.
      > > >
      > > > Thanks,
      > > > Corey
      > > >
      > > > --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "s100doctor" <hjohnson@>
      > > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > > > > From: "corey986" <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
      > > > >
      > > > > > > > Subject: Anyone have a bin or hex of the 8080 Apple
      > > > > > > ROM Monitor (not apple computer)
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > The one ZAPPLE for the Z80 is based on.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > Am I correct the ZAPPLE won't work on an 8080? It uses Z80 codes

      > > correct?
      > > > >
      > > > > This is stuff I know something about. The original "APPLE" monitor
      was
      > > for 8080 stuff; Roger updated it to support his Z80 card, an early
      S-100
      > > Z80 product. I heard Roger just last week and he mentioned how he and
      > > Claude Kagan traded "tweaks" to the monitor, in the era.
      > > > >
      > > > > Do you need TDL's 8080 monitor in particular, or just any 8080
      monitor?
      > > MITS and IMSAI and other 8080 S-100 producers offered 8080 monitor
      > > programs, if that's your interest. What's up?
      > > > >
      > > > > I noodled around the Web for Zapple and TDL stuff readily
      available. My
      > > buddy Rich Cini has some work on his IMSAI Web pages:
      > > > >
      > > > > http://www.classiccmp.org/cini/pdf/TDL/TDL%20ZPU%20Manual.pdf
      > > > > http://www.classiccmp.org/cini/pdf/TDL/TDL%20Zapple%20Monitor.pdf
      > > > >
      > > > > Rich Cini's web pages provide a copy of the TDL ZPU manual, with
      > > sources for Version 2.0 of the Zapple monitor; and a manual for version

      > > 1.0something of the Zapple monitor. I'm looking at the code.... it's
      in
      > > TDL's stretched 8080 mnemonics, most of the source looks "8080" to me.

      > > Offhand, I'd say take Zapple source and change the few Z80 references.
      The
      > > Ver 2.0 is shorter at 400H, the Ver 1.0 is 800H. Aggressive searching
      may
      > > find Zapple source code online.
      > > > >
      > > > > I know Roger and it's possible I could ask him next time I see him.
      But
      > > he doesn't seem to have much on hand from his TDL work; it's not on his
      Web
      > > pages. Looking around the Web reminds me that TDL built their SMB card
      for
      > > the Altair, and that's where they likely made "apple" and later
      "zapple"
      > > available. references to the SMB may find some binaries, if not
      source.
      > > > >
      > > > > And it's possible I have this myself as a ROM, even a paper tape,
      > > somewhere. It would help if I knew WHY this was of interest.
      > > > >
      > > > > herb johnson
      > > > > retrotechnology.com
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ------------------------------------
      > > >
      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
    • Dave McGuire
      ... In the context of S-100 systems at least, the accepted term for what we d usually call a backplane is motherboard . Definitely an unusual departure
      Message 31 of 31 , Aug 24, 2012
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        On 08/22/2012 05:27 PM, Evan Koblentz wrote:
        >>> replace the motherboard with a nice spare I just acquired
        >
        > Is it accurate to call that a "motherboard"? Seeing as it only has slots, not chips, I'd call it backplane.

        In the context of S-100 systems at least, the accepted term for what
        we'd usually call a "backplane" is "motherboard". Definitely an unusual
        departure from the more standard terminology.

        -Dave

        --
        Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
        New Kensington, PA
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