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Who is coming Sat? (other than me and Dave Gesswein)?

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  • B. Degnan
    Who is coming Sat? (other than me and Dave Gesswein)? Bill
    Message 1 of 61 , Jun 22, 2012

      Who is coming Sat?  (other than me and Dave Gesswein)?
    • Jeffrey Brace
      From: s100doctor Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 12:25 PM ... Who mentioned the word magic ? As a beginner I was just looking for a way to get started. Which
      Message 61 of 61 , Jun 27, 2012
        From: s100doctor
        Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 12:25 PM

        >David has given some good advice. But he was kind enough to avoid the
        >issues of "magic books" and "magic tools".

        Who mentioned the word "magic" ?

        As a beginner I was just looking for a way to get started. Which tools to
        get for example. Instead of buying a soldering iron only to find out the one
        I bought should have been temperature controlled. Or a logic probe will do
        whereas an oscilloscope is overkill. Second I need to know how to learn how
        to use the tools. Third good references that a beginner can figure out.

        >It's my experience that what is needed is some knowledge and some tools and
        >some experience - and time and patience. The more of those you have, the
        >better your results. Generally one gets that stuff incrementally - you
        > >learn in steps, and work in steps. This takes time, and there will be
        >times when you make mistakes and backtrack. Those are learning
        >opportunities - if you are not making mistakes, you are not testing your
        >knowledge! Plus, >you have to know how to use tools, most tools don't tell
        >you very specific things (unless you are in a trade where smart tools are
        >in use).

        My point is my frustration on how to get started and getting conflicting
        advice on even the tools to get in the first place.

        >In the long run, it's of more advantage to UNDERSTAND how things work, then
        >learn some specific knowledge; than to try to remember a bunch of specific
        >things. (shrug) it takes time to learn that stuff, and learning by
        > failing takes time too. The benefits are time and money saved later, and
        > potentially the satisfaction of the work itself. There's another
        > anti-21st-century idea: the idea that work can be satisfying.

        I'm all for understand, but I get tired of just reading about how things
        work and just want to *do* something. I am more for hands on doing than
        sitting in a lecture hall learning about theory ad nauseum. I did enough of
        that in college for 5 year and 193 credits, and more enjoyed the co-op jobs
        where I could actually apply what I learned hands-on.

        I took the liberty of e-mailing the "expert of C64 repair" Ray Carlsen and
        got some quick and simple recommendations :

        > For a beginner repairing a Commodore 64, which tools, materials do you
        > recommend ?

        It depends on how deeply you want to get into it. Bad chips in the
        computer can have many symptoms or just one... blank screen. Diagnosing
        that means testing chips, one at a time, in a working computer.
        Experience helps to determine which chips fail most often and to check
        those first. For socketed IC's, that's easy. For the ones soldered in,
        it's difficult if you want to extract them intact. You don't want to
        destroy the ones that might still be good. Some chips are expensive and
        hard to get.
        So, to answer your question, some basic hand tools like Philips
        screwdrivers of various sizes, a 40 Watt soldering iron, a solder sucker
        (for chip extraction) and desoldering braid, a mulitmeter (volt/ohm
        meter), and one working C64 board with all chips socketed. To aid the
        home user in repairing their own hardware, I have a website with CBM
        repair articles at http://personalpages.tds.net/~rcarlsen

        Jeff Brace
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