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Re: [midatlanticretro] Semi-OT: WordPerfect

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  • Bill Dromgoole
    Good job Evan. Did you know that this is still a subject of litigation with MicroSoft? Chek this link
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 13, 2012
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      Good job Evan.
      Did you know that this is still a subject of litigation with MicroSoft?

      Chek this link http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20120207065348813

      Many say Microsoft is evil, I tend to agree.

      Bill D.

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Evan Koblentz" <evan@...>
      To: <midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:14 PM
      Subject: [midatlanticretro] Semi-OT: WordPerfect


      > Hi all,
      >
      > I don't like to mix work and pleasure, but here is an exception.
      >
      > http://www.law.com/jsp/lawtechnologynews/PubArticleLTN.jsp?id=1202542161238&WordPerfects_Upgrade_Does_It_Matter&slreturn=1
      > <http://www.law.com/jsp/lawtechnologynews/PubArticleLTN.jsp?id=1202542161238&WordPerfects_Upgrade_Does_It_Matter&slreturn=1>
      >
      > (Most of you know that I'm a tech reporter. My current gig is with a
      > boring-sounding trade magazine called Law Technology News. It's not as
      > dull as it sounds; there's a multi-billion software market for the
      > world's 250 largest law firms and corporate counsel. To me, it's just a
      > software beat, and I enjoy the work. Mostly I do serious news reporting,
      > but every Tuesday it's my turn to write an opinion piece. This week I
      > decided to cover the fate of WordPerfect. Thought some MARCHins might
      > appreciate it.)
      >
    • Evan Koblentz
      ... Thanks. ... Yes. Decided not to get into that in the commentary.
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 13, 2012
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        > Good job Evan.

        Thanks.


        > Did you know that this is still a subject of litigation with MicroSoft?

        Yes. Decided not to get into that in the commentary.
      • murph
        ... Good story. Interesting. -- Team Amiga New Jersey - The less that I speak, the smarter I sound.
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 14, 2012
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          Good story.  Interesting.

          --
          Team Amiga  New Jersey - The less that I speak, the smarter I sound.



        • B Degnan
          ... Well done.. WordPerfect simply did not transition into the GUI era very well, it s not Microsoft s fault that Word beat it into the 32-bit era. I have a
          Message 4 of 10 , Feb 14, 2012
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            At 11:14 PM 2/13/2012, you wrote:
            >Hi all,
            >
            >I don't like to mix work and pleasure, but here is an exception.
            >
            >http://www.law.com/jsp/lawtechnologynews/PubArticleLTN.jsp?id=1202542161238&WordPerfects_Upgrade_Does_It_Matter&slreturn=1
            >
            ><http://www.law.com/jsp/lawtechnologynews/PubArticleLTN.jsp?id=1202542161238&WordPerfects_Upgrade_Does_It_Matter&slreturn=1>
            >
            >(Most of you know that I'm a tech reporter. My current gig is with a
            >boring-sounding trade magazine called Law Technology News. It's not as
            >dull as it sounds; there's a multi-billion software market for the
            >world's 250 largest law firms and corporate counsel. To me, it's just a
            >software beat, and I enjoy the work. Mostly I do serious news reporting,
            >but every Tuesday it's my turn to write an opinion piece. This week I
            >decided to cover the fate of WordPerfect. Thought some MARCHins might
            >appreciate it.)

            Well done.. WordPerfect simply did not transition into the GUI era
            very well, it's not Microsoft's fault that Word beat it into the
            32-bit era. I have a training video tape around here somewhere.
            bd
          • dfnr2
            Nice piece. I resisted Word every step of the way, but ultimately, it got good enough to use. Back in grad school, however, it was awful. You could submit
            Message 5 of 10 , Feb 14, 2012
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              Nice piece.

              I resisted Word every step of the way, but ultimately, it got good enough to use. Back in grad school, however, it was awful. You could submit articles to scientific journals in TeX back then (perhaps now too?), but when our advisor forbade the use of TeX in the lab (for interoperability purposes), the only package that could handle the equations, and large dissertations was WordPerfect. Word choked and crashed. Later on, I tried using all the Linux alternatives, including ApplixWare, then WordPerfect for Linux (while it was supported, based on Wine), Star Office (which sucked), then Open Office (which is actually pretty good.)

              However, the hassle of trying to swap documents takes away from Open Office. Word has gotten better over the years, and perhaps because I hardly do any real writing nowadays, I find Word to be just fine.

              Dave

              --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Evan Koblentz <evan@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi all,
              >
              > I don't like to mix work and pleasure, but here is an exception.
              >
              > http://www.law.com/jsp/lawtechnologynews/PubArticleLTN.jsp?id=1202542161238&WordPerfects_Upgrade_Does_It_Matter&slreturn=1
              > <http://www.law.com/jsp/lawtechnologynews/PubArticleLTN.jsp?id=1202542161238&WordPerfects_Upgrade_Does_It_Matter&slreturn=1>
              >
              > (Most of you know that I'm a tech reporter. My current gig is with a
              > boring-sounding trade magazine called Law Technology News. It's not as
              > dull as it sounds; there's a multi-billion software market for the
              > world's 250 largest law firms and corporate counsel. To me, it's just a
              > software beat, and I enjoy the work. Mostly I do serious news reporting,
              > but every Tuesday it's my turn to write an opinion piece. This week I
              > decided to cover the fate of WordPerfect. Thought some MARCHins might
              > appreciate it.)
              >
            • Jeff Jonas
              ... Agreed! It s nice to see what you do during the day. ... That s a far cry from doing better than the others . Is there any way to #include other files
              Message 6 of 10 , Feb 15, 2012
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                --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "dfnr2" <dfnr2@...> wrote:

                > Nice piece.

                Agreed! It's nice to see what you do during the day.

                > I resisted Word every step of the way,
                > but ultimately, it got good enough to use.

                That's a far cry from "doing better than the others".
                Is there any way to #include other files
                instead of making just one huge file for each document?

                > Back in grad school, however, it was awful.

                What year was that? Around 2005, it was still painful and awful
                for academic work such as thesis or dissertations.
                But sadly, that's because NJIT's templates were full of errors and terribly incomplete (we had to manually generate the table of contents, list of figures, etc.) whereas some other colleges had developed a Word template/framework that handled that. What horrified me most was how an engineering college had so little expertise on M$ Word despite relying so heavily on it.

                I still ponder if learning TeX on my own would've been time better spent than re-reformatting the M$ Word document every time a backspace broke ALL the paragraph formatting.

                You see, I used troff back at AT&T, so I'm accustomed to a REAL formatting program, without WYSIWYG.

                > Later on, I tried using all the Linux alternatives,
                > including ApplixWare, then WordPerfect for Linux
                > (while it was supported, based on Wine),
                > Star Office (which sucked),
                > then Open Office (which is actually pretty good.)

                I forgot what one I used in 2003-2006
                but there were insurmountable incompatibilities.
                I composed PowerPoint presentations under the Linux tools
                but it didn't display properly under M$ PowerPoint.
                The font was so large that nothing fit in the frame.
                And since PowerPoint has no concept of flowing text
                from one frame to another, re-composition was very painful.

                -- jeffj
              • system@great-escape.tmesis.com
                ... Isn t that T for Tweebnology? :) ... DSR and SDML here. I hate WYSIWYG; it makes it nary impossible to create proper ToCs and indexes. A WYSIWYG is like
                Message 7 of 10 , Feb 15, 2012
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                  "Jeff Jonas" <jeff_s_jonas@...> writes:

                  >{...snip...}
                  >What year was that? Around 2005, it was still painful and awful for
                  >academic work such as thesis or dissertations. But sadly, that's because
                  >NJIT's templates were full of errors and terribly= incomplete (we had
                  >to manually generate the table of contents, list of fig= ures, etc.)
                  >whereas some other colleges had developed a Word template/frame= work
                  >that handled that. What horrified me most was how an engineering colle=
                  >ge had so little expertise on M$ Word despite relying so heavily on it.

                  Isn't that T for Tweebnology? :)



                  >I still ponder if learning TeX on my own would've been time better spent
                  >th= an re-reformatting the M$ Word document every time a backspace broke
                  >ALL th= e paragraph formatting.
                  >
                  >You see, I used troff back at AT&T, so I'm accustomed to a REAL
                  >formatting = program, without WYSIWYG.

                  DSR and SDML here. I hate WYSIWYG; it makes it nary impossible to create
                  proper ToCs and indexes.

                  A WYSIWYG is like a compiler; you can only do what its smarts have been
                  designed to do. I think they remove all creativity but, as trendy goes
                  today, mundane is ubiquitous.



                  >> Later on, I tried using all the Linux alternatives, > including
                  >ApplixWare, then WordPerfect for Linux > (while it was supported, based
                  >on Wine), > Star Office (which sucked), > then Open Office (which is
                  >actually pretty good.)=20=20
                  >
                  >I forgot what one I used in 2003-2006 but there were insurmountable
                  >incompatibilities. I composed PowerPoint presentations under the Linux
                  >tools but it didn't display properly under M$ PowerPoint. The font was
                  >so large that nothing fit in the frame. And since PowerPoint has no
                  >concept of flowing text from one frame to another, re-composition was
                  >very painful.

                  I have had to do a number of presentations in the past couple of years
                  at conferences where folks are "spoon fed" off PowerPuke presentations.
                  I did mine using Apple Keynote which has some incredibly nice features
                  to animate things I was presenting (OS Kernel hacks). When these were
                  exported as PowerPuke, there was virtually nothing on the pages but for
                  a few bullets -- Typical of more lamer PowerPuke presentations. What I
                  find amusing is that people want a take-home copy of three bullet point
                  slides.

                  In general, I really hate most PowerPuke presentation. This one sums
                  it up: <http://norvig.com/Gettysburg/sld001.htm> Especially, slide 5.
                • jack99rubin
                  ... , , , , Damn you young uns - in graduate school, I traded punch-card time for a typist (person) to type my thesis and then I drew in equations by hand.
                  Message 8 of 10 , Feb 15, 2012
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                    --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "dfnr2" <dfnr2@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Nice piece.
                    >
                    > I resisted Word every step of the way, but ultimately, it got good enough to use. Back in grad school, however, it was awful. You could submit articles to scientific journals in TeX back then (perhaps now too?), but when our advisor forbade the use of TeX in the lab (for interoperability purposes), the only package that could handle the equations, and large dissertations was WordPerfect. Word choked and crashed. Later on, I tried using all the Linux alternatives, including ApplixWare, then WordPerfect for Linux (while it was supported, based on Wine), Star Office (which sucked), then Open Office (which is actually pretty good.)
                    >
                    > However, the hassle of trying to swap documents takes away from Open Office. Word has gotten better over the years, and perhaps because I hardly do any real writing nowadays, I find Word to be just fine.
                    >
                    > Dave
                    >
                    > --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Evan Koblentz <evan@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hi all,
                    > >
                    > > I don't like to mix work and pleasure, but here is an exception.
                    > >

                    ,
                    ,
                    ,
                    ,

                    Damn you young'uns - in graduate school, I traded punch-card time for a typist (person) to type my thesis and then I drew in equations by hand. Printouts were on greenbar with Hollerith-formatted "graphs".

                    I just revived F77 on my 11/73 and it's pretty nice, but when I get RATFOR going again, I'll be in hog heaven.

                    Hope to make VCF this year.

                    Jack
                  • dfnr2
                    ... That was the late nineties. The edict against TeX came about 1997. ... TeX is a superb tool. I do recall the learning curve is steep, though. I picked
                    Message 9 of 10 , Feb 15, 2012
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                      --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Jonas" <jeff_s_jonas@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "dfnr2" <dfnr2@> wrote:

                      >
                      > What year was that? Around 2005, it was still painful and awful
                      > for academic work such as thesis or dissertations.

                      That was the late nineties. The edict against TeX came about 1997.

                      > I still ponder if learning TeX on my own would've been time better spent than re-reformatting the M$ Word document every time a backspace broke ALL the paragraph formatting.
                      >

                      TeX is a superb tool. I do recall the learning curve is steep, though. I picked up a copy of the TeXbook, not even knowing what it was, even before going back to school in 1989. So I learned TeX and LaTex before I really needed them. However, once you have tweaked some macros to your desired style, you can almost forget about them and just type. It's way better than the wysiwyg options, especially if you're chopping and rearranging, or re-using sections from papers in grants, etc.


                      > You see, I used troff back at AT&T, so I'm accustomed to a REAL formatting program, without WYSIWYG.

                      You'd probably get along fine with TeX then.


                      Dave
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