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Re: [midatlanticretro] Sun 3/60

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  • Mike Loewen
    ... I have a 3/60 in the repair queue, w/RAM, cgfour and keyboard. I believe it works, but I need to hook it up to my Sun monitor to be sure. I remember
    Message 1 of 16 , Nov 29, 2011
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      On Tue, 29 Nov 2011, B Degnan wrote:

      > Picked up one of these without RAM...anyone have RAM, terminal and
      > keyboard...or anyone want a Sun 3/60? No idea if it works, but I was
      > told it did work somewhat recently....I can deliver to the
      > Festivus. I would not mind having a nice shape primitive Sun
      > workstation, but there may be someone here who'd want one more than
      > I. The 3/60 is from the late 80's, 25Mhz.

      I have a 3/60 in the repair queue, w/RAM, cgfour and keyboard. I
      believe it works, but I need to hook it up to my Sun monitor to be sure.
      I remember running one of these back in 1990 or so, and called it a "space
      heater". Yours should have a 20MHz 68020 in it, and needs a type 3
      keyboard and mouse.


      Mike Loewen mloewen@...
      Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
    • Dave McGuire
      ... 20MHz. I have done TONS of work on these. Some of which was rather historic, but the suits have seen to it that I won t get any credit for that. If you
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 29, 2011
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        On 11/29/2011 10:18 AM, B Degnan wrote:
        > Picked up one of these without RAM...anyone have RAM, terminal and
        > keyboard...or anyone want a Sun 3/60? No idea if it works, but I was
        > told it did work somewhat recently....I can deliver to the
        > Festivus. I would not mind having a nice shape primitive Sun
        > workstation, but there may be someone here who'd want one more than
        > I. The 3/60 is from the late 80's, 25Mhz.

        20MHz.

        I have done TONS of work on these. Some of which was rather
        historic, but the suits have seen to it that I won't get any credit for
        that. If you need any help getting it running, let me know. I'd also
        be quite happy to give it a home if you don't want to keep it.

        > Funny related note...when I was looking up "Sun 360" on Google I came
        > upon the page 3 section of the English newspaper The Sun...if you
        > have an iPad check out their page 3 girls 360 (degrees) feature. Not
        > the Sun 3/60 I was expecting, but ...

        *snicker*

        -Dave

        --
        Dave McGuire
        New Kensington, PA
      • Dave McGuire
        ... Type 2 and Type 4 will also work, with appropriate cables. -Dave -- Dave McGuire New Kensington, PA
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 29, 2011
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          On 11/29/2011 10:24 AM, Mike Loewen wrote:
          > I have a 3/60 in the repair queue, w/RAM, cgfour and keyboard. I
          > believe it works, but I need to hook it up to my Sun monitor to be sure.
          > I remember running one of these back in 1990 or so, and called it a "space
          > heater". Yours should have a 20MHz 68020 in it, and needs a type 3
          > keyboard and mouse.

          Type 2 and Type 4 will also work, with appropriate cables.

          -Dave

          --
          Dave McGuire
          New Kensington, PA
        • Mike Loewen
          ... Right. I knew about the Type 4, but I ve never seen a Type 2. Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 29, 2011
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            On Tue, 29 Nov 2011, Dave McGuire wrote:

            > On 11/29/2011 10:24 AM, Mike Loewen wrote:
            >> I have a 3/60 in the repair queue, w/RAM, cgfour and keyboard. I
            >> believe it works, but I need to hook it up to my Sun monitor to be sure.
            >> I remember running one of these back in 1990 or so, and called it a "space
            >> heater". Yours should have a 20MHz 68020 in it, and needs a type 3
            >> keyboard and mouse.
            >
            > Type 2 and Type 4 will also work, with appropriate cables.

            Right. I knew about the Type 4, but I've never seen a Type 2.


            Mike Loewen mloewen@...
            Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
          • Dave McGuire
            ... They re surprisingly nice keyboards. They have a light clicky feel like an IBM Model M, but much softer, with a small bit of padding at the bottom of
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 29, 2011
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              On 11/29/2011 10:33 AM, Mike Loewen wrote:
              >>> I have a 3/60 in the repair queue, w/RAM, cgfour and keyboard. I
              >>> believe it works, but I need to hook it up to my Sun monitor to be sure.
              >>> I remember running one of these back in 1990 or so, and called it a "space
              >>> heater". Yours should have a 20MHz 68020 in it, and needs a type 3
              >>> keyboard and mouse.
              >>
              >> Type 2 and Type 4 will also work, with appropriate cables.
              >
              > Right. I knew about the Type 4, but I've never seen a Type 2.

              They're surprisingly nice keyboards. They have a light "clicky" feel
              like an IBM Model M, but much softer, with a small bit of "padding" at
              the bottom of travel. Unfortunately they are getting really tough to find.

              They (and their mice) have modular connectors. Sun made little
              adapter pods that plug into the DA15 connector and give you two modular
              connectors for the Type 2 hardware, so you can run it on the later machines.

              -Dave

              --
              Dave McGuire
              New Kensington, PA
            • Mr Ian Primus
              ... The RAM should be standard 30 pin SIMMs, parity type. I ve found that the three chip type SIMMs don t generally work, you want the nine chip type. You
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 29, 2011
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                --- On Tue, 11/29/11, B Degnan <billdeg@...> wrote:

                > Picked up one of these without
                > RAM...anyone have RAM, terminal and
                > keyboard...or anyone want a Sun 3/60?  No idea if it
                > works, but I was
                > told it did work somewhat recently....I can deliver to the
                >
                > Festivus.  I would not mind having a nice shape
                > primitive Sun
                > workstation, but there may be someone here who'd want one
                > more than

                The RAM should be standard 30 pin SIMMs, parity type. I've found that the "three chip" type SIMMs don't generally work, you want the "nine chip" type.

                You can operate this box with a standard RS232 terminal, or you can use a monitor/keyboard. It's supposed to use a type 3 keyboard, but the signals are the same as the newer type 4 and 5 keyboards, you just need to build an adapter cable to use the minidin 8 type keyboard on this computer (which has a 15 pin dsub connector). If it has the color framebuffer, you can use a standard multisync monitor, otherwise you want the ECL monochrome monitor.

                The ECL monochrome Sun monitor is perhaps one of my favorite monitors of all time, 1 bit per pixel, but incredibly sharp and clear. You don't even miss color when working with a display that nice. Hehe. Anyone have any spares?

                There is physical space inside a 3/60 for a 3 1/2" SCSI hard drive, but the internal connector is not populated. A trivial bit of soldering and you can add one. The power supply can't really handle a large/fast disk, but Seagate made some slimline, low end SCSI drives that work quite nicely in this application. Of course, you can also plug in external disk - these computers were meant to work with the Sun "shoebox" external disk/tape unit. They contained an MFM hard drive with an Emulex interface board, and a QIC tape drive.

                I've always loved the Sun workstations/servers of this era. The 3/60 is an interesting little box, and easy to work on, as the whole thing is just a VME board that plugs into a power-only backplane in the chassis. If it needs a new home, I'd be glad to provide one...

                -Ian
              • Mr Ian Primus
                ... Huh. I ve never seen a type 2 keyboard either. That s interesting. Sun2 machines are pretty much unobtanium, and I ve never been able to get my hands on
                Message 7 of 16 , Nov 29, 2011
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                  --- On Tue, 11/29/11, Dave McGuire <Mcguire@...> wrote:

                  > >      Right.  I knew about the Type
                  > 4, but I've never seen a Type 2.
                  >
                  >    They're surprisingly nice
                  > keyboards.  They have a light "clicky" feel
                  > like an IBM Model M, but much softer, with a small bit of
                  > "padding" at
                  > the bottom of travel.  Unfortunately they are getting
                  > really tough to find.

                  Huh. I've never seen a type 2 keyboard either. That's interesting. Sun2 machines are pretty much unobtanium, and I've never been able to get my hands on one. Sun3 was always one of my favorite architectures, so I'm very familiar with the type 3 keyboards. Personally, I like the type 3 keyboard a lot better than the newer ones, and have constructed adapters to allow me to use them on the Sparc machines...

                  -Ian
                • J. Alexander Jacocks
                  On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Mike Loewen ... I, too, have a thing for 68k Suns. If anyone has machines that they are interested in trading, please bring
                  Message 8 of 16 , Nov 29, 2011
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                    On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Mike Loewen <mloewen@...> wrote:
                     

                    On Tue, 29 Nov 2011, B Degnan wrote:

                    > Picked up one of these without RAM...anyone have RAM, terminal and
                    > keyboard...or anyone want a Sun 3/60? No idea if it works, but I was
                    > told it did work somewhat recently....I can deliver to the
                    > Festivus. I would not mind having a nice shape primitive Sun
                    > workstation, but there may be someone here who'd want one more than
                    > I. The 3/60 is from the late 80's, 25Mhz.

                    I have a 3/60 in the repair queue, w/RAM, cgfour and keyboard. I
                    believe it works, but I need to hook it up to my Sun monitor to be sure.
                    I remember running one of these back in 1990 or so, and called it a "space
                    heater". Yours should have a 20MHz 68020 in it, and needs a type 3
                    keyboard and mouse.

                    I, too, have a thing for 68k Suns.  If anyone has machines that they are interested in trading, please bring them to the party.  I've been trying to get working systems for a number of years, now, with not much success, through local (Washington DC) sources.

                    - Alex
                  • B Degnan
                    I will bring the 3/60, let you guys decide what to do with it bd
                    Message 9 of 16 , Nov 29, 2011
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                      I will bring the 3/60, let you guys decide what to do with it
                      bd


                      At 10:56 AM 11/29/2011, you wrote:
                      >--- On Tue, 11/29/11, Dave McGuire <Mcguire@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > > Right. I knew about the Type
                      > > 4, but I've never seen a Type 2.
                      > >
                      > > They're surprisingly nice
                      > > keyboards. They have a light "clicky" feel
                      > > like an IBM Model M, but much softer, with a small bit of
                      > > "padding" at
                      > > the bottom of travel. Unfortunately they are getting
                      > > really tough to find.
                      >
                      >Huh. I've never seen a type 2 keyboard either. That's interesting.
                      >Sun2 machines are pretty much unobtanium, and I've never been able
                      >to get my hands on one. Sun3 was always one of my favorite
                      >architectures, so I'm very familiar with the type 3 keyboards.
                      >Personally, I like the type 3 keyboard a lot better than the newer
                      >ones, and have constructed adapters to allow me to use them on the
                      >Sparc machines...
                      >
                      >-Ian
                      >
                      >
                      >------------------------------------
                      >
                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Dave McGuire
                      ... My favorite is the Type 4. -Dave -- Dave McGuire New Kensington, PA
                      Message 10 of 16 , Nov 29, 2011
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                        On 11/29/2011 10:56 AM, Mr Ian Primus wrote:
                        > Huh. I've never seen a type 2 keyboard either. That's interesting.
                        > Sun2 machines are pretty much unobtanium, and I've never been able to
                        > get my hands on one. Sun3 was always one of my favorite
                        > architectures, so I'm very familiar with the type 3 keyboards.
                        > Personally, I like the type 3 keyboard a lot better than the newer
                        > ones, and have constructed adapters to allow me to use them on the
                        > Sparc machines...

                        My favorite is the Type 4.

                        -Dave

                        --
                        Dave McGuire
                        New Kensington, PA
                      • s100doctor
                        In November, there was a discussion here about old Sun 68K systems. These were Unix boxes, some of them pizza box format. Looked like a few members have/had
                        Message 11 of 16 , Apr 15, 2012
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                          In November, there was a discussion here about old Sun 68K systems. These were Unix boxes, some of them "pizza box" format. Looked like a few members have/had an interest, Bill Degnan said he'd bring one presumably to show-n-tell to those members.

                          There's lately also been discussion about repairs, at chips-and-signals level.

                          I'm considering what I'll bring for my VCF-E sales/show table. I have a few of these Sun pizza boxes, which I intend to work on, but they are low on my "repair queue". There's no time to work on them before the show, I doubt much can be done DURING the show. But if there's interest and space, I could bring a few. Let me know if this is of interest.

                          Herb Johnson
                          retrotechnology.com
                        • B Degnan
                          I dropped one off for Dave McGuire, not sure where in building H it is. Bill
                          Message 12 of 16 , Apr 15, 2012
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                            I dropped one off for Dave McGuire, not sure where in building H it is.
                            Bill

                            At 11:54 AM 4/15/2012, you wrote:
                            >In November, there was a discussion here about old Sun 68K systems.
                            >These were Unix boxes, some of them "pizza box" format. Looked like
                            >a few members have/had an interest, Bill Degnan said he'd bring one
                            >presumably to show-n-tell to those members.
                            >
                            >There's lately also been discussion about repairs, at
                            >chips-and-signals level.
                            >
                            >I'm considering what I'll bring for my VCF-E sales/show table. I
                            >have a few of these Sun pizza boxes, which I intend to work on, but
                            >they are low on my "repair queue". There's no time to work on them
                            >before the show, I doubt much can be done DURING the show. But if
                            >there's interest and space, I could bring a few. Let me know if this
                            >is of interest.
                            >
                            >Herb Johnson
                            >retrotechnology.com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >------------------------------------
                            >
                            >Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Evan Koblentz
                            ... We have it.
                            Message 13 of 16 , Apr 15, 2012
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                              >> I dropped one off for Dave McGuire, not sure where in building H it is.

                              We have it.
                            • Dave McGuire
                              ... Hoooboy. :) I have done LOTS AND LOTS with those systems. I can help with those if needed. I can also give homes to any of them that may be in need; I
                              Message 14 of 16 , Apr 15, 2012
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                                On 04/15/2012 11:54 AM, s100doctor wrote:
                                > In November, there was a discussion here about old Sun 68K systems. These were Unix boxes, some of them "pizza box" format. Looked like a few members have/had an interest, Bill Degnan said he'd bring one presumably to show-n-tell to those members.
                                >
                                > There's lately also been discussion about repairs, at chips-and-signals level.
                                >
                                > I'm considering what I'll bring for my VCF-E sales/show table. I have a few of these Sun pizza boxes, which I intend to work on, but they are low on my "repair queue". There's no time to work on them before the show, I doubt much can be done DURING the show. But if there's interest and space, I could bring a few. Let me know if this is of interest.

                                Hoooboy. :) I have done LOTS AND LOTS with those systems. I can help
                                with those if needed. I can also give homes to any of them that may be
                                in need; I absolutely love 'em. I'm looking forward to picking up the
                                3/60 that's sitting at the museum.

                                For about three years a long time ago, I'm guessing it was 1990-1992,
                                a 3/50 was my main desktop system, running SunOS 4.1. Later I moved to
                                a 3/80. I had gotten a 3/60 in the interim and wanted to move to that,
                                but ended up selling it for big bucks. My first Sun was a 2/170, a
                                68010-based machine. I'm still running Suns in server roles today, but
                                they are very, very different...the central computer here has eight
                                64-bit UltraSPARC-III+ processors and 64GB of RAM, and many terabytes of
                                disk. How far we've come!

                                I have to tell this story. I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm tooting my
                                own horn here, it's not my intention to do so. In 1993 at Digex in
                                Maryland, using these machines, I developed what is believed by my
                                former coworkers and I to be the first incarnation of what we now call
                                "blade servers".

                                The configuration was a Sun 3/180 with two 8" 1.2GB SMD drives in the
                                bottom of a rack, and two other 3/x80-series chassis mounted above it.
                                Those chassis are twelve-slot 9U VME, and Sun3/50 and 3/60 boards are 9U
                                VME form factor...but those boards, which are complete, self-contained
                                computers except for disks, only draw power from the bus, no signals are
                                implemented.

                                I put six 3/50 and 3/60 boards in each of the other two chassis, and
                                (I think) two more in the spare slots of the 3/160 in the bottom. I set
                                the 3/160 up as a boot server, and ran a daisy-chain of BNC T-connectors
                                and short segments of coax between their network interfaces. The coax
                                segments were too short according to the 10base2 Ethernet spec, but
                                those were the cables I had on hand, and it worked.

                                This was a configuration that Sun Microsystems swore wouldn't work,
                                due to "conflicts on the bus", but I did some research (with the VME
                                spec and an ohmmeter) and determined that it should work fine. There is
                                no VME bus on the 3/50 and 3/60! (well, except for the "P4" framebuffer
                                connector in the 3/60, but that's different, and not on the bottom edge
                                of the board!) This reinforced my long-held theory that the people who
                                know the least about Sun hardware are often Sun employees. ;) Not only
                                did it work, but it worked wonderfully, and it formed the basis of one
                                of the earliest, if not THE earliest implementation of what we now call
                                "managed hosting".

                                The first one came up in March of 1993, and was alawash.org, the
                                American Library Association of Washington. The next was twp.com, The
                                Washington Post. In the end we had a whole row of those racks, about
                                three hundred 3/50 and 3/60 machines, and the central file server for
                                groups of machines evolved to eventually be SPARCstation-20s, freeing up
                                more of the 3/x80 rackmount VME chassis which had become a precious
                                commodity. The last of them, I'm told, were shut down around 1999, two
                                years after my departure.

                                This service was called "Private Domain". The suits that infiltrated
                                and ruined Digex in the later years would sometimes talk about those
                                "early server efforts", but they didn't get it. They WERE NOT
                                SERVERS...if anything, they were CLIENTS! There were no web servers
                                running on the majority of those machines, especially in the beginning.
                                Most of them were used by the customers' staffers, telnetting in to
                                read email, and using FTP to share files.

                                I got a few magazine writeups out of it, which was cool. The best
                                part, though, is the memories. :-) Those were good times.

                                -Dave

                                --
                                Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
                                New Kensington, PA
                              • Mike Loewen
                                ... Brian Cirulnick picked up a Sparcstation 1 for me: did it ever make it to Infoage? Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology
                                Message 15 of 16 , Apr 15, 2012
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                                  On Sun, 15 Apr 2012, B Degnan wrote:

                                  > I dropped one off for Dave McGuire, not sure where in building H it is.
                                  > Bill

                                  Brian Cirulnick picked up a Sparcstation 1 for me: did it ever make it
                                  to Infoage?


                                  Mike Loewen mloewen@...
                                  Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
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