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  • Jeff Jonas
    Rolf Levenbach donated some wonderful things to MARCH. I was reading about the Bellmac 8 CPU and will soon post a web page about the interesting architectural
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 28, 2011
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      Rolf Levenbach donated some wonderful things to MARCH. I was reading about the Bellmac 8 CPU and will soon post a web page about the interesting architectural gems in that chip that other processors re-discovered years later, such as register windowing.

      I'll soon forward the 1975 book "Programming Languages: Design and Implementation" by Terrence W. Pratt to the MARCH library. It is SO 70s: discusses FORTRAN, ALGOL 60, COBOL, PL/I, LISP 1.5, SNOBOL 4, APL

      Who'd imagine that ALL those languages would become obsolete?
    • Dave McGuire
      ... Fantastic, I look forward to reading that! ... FORTRAN and Lisp are still in pretty serious use in some worlds. (unless you re specifically referring to
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 28, 2011
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        On 10/29/2011 12:39 AM, Jeff Jonas wrote:
        > Rolf Levenbach donated some wonderful things to MARCH. I was reading about the Bellmac 8 CPU and will soon post a web page about the interesting architectural gems in that chip that other processors re-discovered years later, such as register windowing.

        Fantastic, I look forward to reading that!

        > I'll soon forward the 1975 book "Programming Languages: Design and Implementation" by Terrence W. Pratt to the MARCH library. It is SO 70s: discusses FORTRAN, ALGOL 60, COBOL, PL/I, LISP 1.5, SNOBOL 4, APL
        >
        > Who'd imagine that ALL those languages would become obsolete?

        FORTRAN and Lisp are still in pretty serious use in some worlds.
        (unless you're specifically referring to Lisp 1.5..)

        -Dave

        --
        Dave McGuire
        New Kensington, PA
      • system@great-escape.tmesis.com
        ... Obsolete? I still come across sites using Fortran; especially, those doing scientific research because of the powerful intrinsic mathematical functions
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 29, 2011
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          "Jeff Jonas" <jeff_s_jonas@...> writes:

          >Rolf Levenbach donated some wonderful things to MARCH. I was reading
          >about = the Bellmac 8 CPU and will soon post a web page about the
          >interesting archi= tectural gems in that chip that other processors
          >re-discovered years later,= such as register windowing.
          >
          >I'll soon forward the 1975 book "Programming Languages: Design and
          >Implemen= tation" by Terrence W. Pratt to the MARCH library. It is SO
          >70s: discusses = FORTRAN, ALGOL 60, COBOL, PL/I, LISP 1.5, SNOBOL 4, APL
          >
          >Who'd imagine that ALL those languages would become obsolete?

          Obsolete?

          I still come across sites using Fortran; especially, those doing scientific
          research because of the powerful intrinsic mathematical functions available
          in Fortran. Fortran 90, IIRC, added modern features like POINTER and the
          ALLOCATABLE types. I did, however, have both of these available to me in
          Fortran-77 when I consulted on a project for the US Navy in the early '80s
          with DEC Fortran.

          PL/I and, moreso, COBOL are still quite popular in the financial/business
          realm. In fact, I have my hands in a huge installation, soon to go live,
          for a major "transportation" product's logistics. It has all been written
          in COBOL save for some pieces of "glue" requiring O/S interfacing (I wrote)
          to provide user authentication, impersonation, security and several other
          things that COBOL app coders simply don't comprehend.
        • Jeff Jonas
          ... That s an eye-opener to me, but then, I m mostly immersed in the Unix/Linux arena where all that was ported to C/C++. ... Wowzers, I ve not seen that, but
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 29, 2011
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            > Obsolete?
            > I still come across sites using Fortran;
            > especially, those doing scientific research
            > because of the powerful intrinsic
            > mathematical functions available in Fortran.

            That's an eye-opener to me,
            but then, I'm mostly immersed in the Unix/Linux arena
            where all that was ported to C/C++.

            > Fortran 90, IIRC, added modern features like
            > POINTER and the ALLOCATABLE types.

            Wowzers, I've not seen that, but it's here:
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortran_95_language_features

            Like the old saying "if it LOOKS like a duck and QUACKS like a duck ...". It sure looks like C features wearing FORTRAN clothing, with structures dereferenced with a%b%x instead of a.b.x and such.

            > PL/I and, moreso, COBOL are still quite popular
            > in the financial/business realm.

            On what platforms / environments?
          • system@great-escape.tmesis.com
            ... The addition of these new statements doesn t preclude that those features were not available or couldn t be realized through other means. Like I d said,
            Message 5 of 7 , Oct 30, 2011
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              "Jeff Jonas" <jeff_s_jonas@...> writes:

              >> Obsolete? > I still come across sites using Fortran; > especially,
              >those doing scientific research > because of the powerful intrinsic >
              >mathematical functions available in Fortran.
              >
              >That's an eye-opener to me, but then, I'm mostly immersed in the
              >Unix/Linux arena where all that was ported to C/C++.
              >
              >> Fortran 90, IIRC, added modern features like > POINTER and the
              >ALLOCATABLE types.
              >
              >Wowzers, I've not seen that, but it's here:
              >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortran_95_language_features
              >
              >Like the old saying "if it LOOKS like a duck and QUACKS like a duck
              >...". I= t sure looks like C features wearing FORTRAN clothing, with
              >structures dere= ferenced with a%b%x instead of a.b.x and such.

              The addition of these new statements doesn't preclude that those features
              were not available or couldn't be realized through other means. Like I'd
              said, using Fortran-77, I was doing such things for the US Navy in early
              '80s. Most of the intrinsic features can be 'in-lined' whereas when you
              are calling libraries of similar functions in 'C', you have call overhead
              to contend with. It's impact is small unless you're exercising that code
              often. How do you contend with "COMPLEX" numbers in 'C'? Sqrt(-1)*REAL
              is a real number in many scientific computations.



              >> PL/I and, moreso, COBOL are still quite popular > in the
              >financial/business realm.
              >
              >On what platforms / environments?

              Well, I'm not going to post customer names here; that's just not proper;
              perhaps, at the upcoming MARCH "Saturnalia."

              My dealings are in the VMS realm but I know of a few companies still using
              big blue iron that also develope their apps using COBOL. Banks, anywhere
              there are classic accounting needs (AR/AP/O* type stuff), insurance co.'s,
              and even a large US trucking co. I'm no COBOL programmer, thank goodness,
              and I don't have much of a head for financials, but I believe one of the
              COBOL strengths is its intrinsic packed or zoned decimal math.

              C'mon, it was a little over a decade ago that the world was going to come
              to an end due to COBOL whackers putting 3 digit years into production. ;)
            • Evan
              I think I have a LARGE looseleaf book, probably 40 yrs old, of IBM scientific subroutine package written in FORTRAN. MARCH can have it for their library.
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 30, 2011
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                I think I have a LARGE looseleaf book, probably 40 yrs old, of
                IBM scientific subroutine package written in FORTRAN. MARCH can have it for their library.
                Evan W

                --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, system@... wrote:
                >
                > "Jeff Jonas" <jeff_s_jonas@...> writes:
                >
                > >Rolf Levenbach donated some wonderful things to MARCH. I was reading
                > >about = the Bellmac 8 CPU and will soon post a web page about the
                > >interesting archi= tectural gems in that chip that other processors
                > >re-discovered years later,= such as register windowing.
                > >
                > >I'll soon forward the 1975 book "Programming Languages: Design and
                > >Implemen= tation" by Terrence W. Pratt to the MARCH library. It is SO
                > >70s: discusses = FORTRAN, ALGOL 60, COBOL, PL/I, LISP 1.5, SNOBOL 4, APL
                > >
                > >Who'd imagine that ALL those languages would become obsolete?
                >
                > Obsolete?
                >
                > I still come across sites using Fortran; especially, those doing scientific
                > research because of the powerful intrinsic mathematical functions available
                > in Fortran. Fortran 90, IIRC, added modern features like POINTER and the
                > ALLOCATABLE types. I did, however, have both of these available to me in
                > Fortran-77 when I consulted on a project for the US Navy in the early '80s
                > with DEC Fortran.
                >
                > PL/I and, moreso, COBOL are still quite popular in the financial/business
                > realm. In fact, I have my hands in a huge installation, soon to go live,
                > for a major "transportation" product's logistics. It has all been written
                > in COBOL save for some pieces of "glue" requiring O/S interfacing (I wrote)
                > to provide user authentication, impersonation, security and several other
                > things that COBOL app coders simply don't comprehend.
                >
              • Evan Koblentz
                ... Very nice! PS, if possible, could you make your emails appear with your first and last name? Just seeing Evan may confuse (or scare off! just kidding...)
                Message 7 of 7 , Oct 30, 2011
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                  > I think I have a LARGE looseleaf book, probably 40 yrs old, of IBM scientific subroutine package written in FORTRAN. MARCH can have it for their library.
                  > Evan W

                  Very nice!

                  PS, if possible, could you make your emails appear with your first and
                  last name? Just seeing "Evan" may confuse (or scare off! just
                  kidding...) some people, as I'm the most frequent poster here.
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