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Re: [midatlanticretro] Ken Olson, Ed Roberts, Steve Jobs

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  • Christian Liendo
    ...   I kinda of held off responding yesterday but honestly I can argue the same about Jobs and Apple.. Jobs took an idea from Xerox and then sued Digital
    Message 1 of 13 , Oct 7, 2011
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      On 10/06/2011 Dave McGuire wrote:
      > I have to voice agreement with this, but as long as the person is
      > honored for the right thing.  Bill Gates was a damn good programmer
      > (read his code!) and had a lot of good ideas.  But, building Microsoft
      > up to what it is today is NOT something that, IMO, should be honored.
      > By the metric of business ethics, he and his management team should be
      > put up against a wall and shot.  "Make money at any cost", regardless of
      > what it does to the industry, should never be recognized as a
      > "pioneering" activity.
       
      I kinda of held off responding yesterday but honestly I can argue the same about Jobs and Apple..

      Jobs took an idea from Xerox and then sued Digital Research for the same idea. Then got sued by Xerox.

      Apple sued a lot of companies over IP rights that it had questionable right to under Job's leadership and Apple has used it's corporate might to obtain the position it is in now...

      I tend to think a people give Apple an exception on things that they would trash Microsoft for.
    • system@great-escape.tmesis.com
      ... Apple didn t violate antitrust at virtually every turn of the corner! Micro$oft was convicted by the DoJ as a criminal monopoly. The front page of the WSJ
      Message 2 of 13 , Oct 7, 2011
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        Christian Liendo <christian_liendo@...> writes:

        >On 10/06/2011 Dave McGuire wrote: > I have to voice agreement with this,
        >but as long as the person is=20 > honored for the right thing.=A0=A0Bill
        >Gates was a damn good programmer=20 > (read his code!) and had a lot of
        >good ideas.=A0=A0But, building Microsof= t=20 > up to what it is today
        >is NOT something that, IMO, should be honored.=20 > By the metric of
        >business ethics, he and his management team should be=20 > put up
        >against a wall and shot.=A0=A0"Make money at any cost", regardless=
        >of=20 > what it does to the industry, should never be recognized as a=20
        >> "pioneering" activity. =A0
        >
        >I kinda of held off responding yesterday but honestly I can argue the
        >same = about Jobs and Apple..
        >
        >Jobs took an idea from Xerox and then sued Digital Research for the same
        >id= ea. Then got sued by Xerox.=20
        >
        >Apple sued a lot of companies over IP rights that it had questionable
        >right= to under Job's leadership and Apple has used it's corporate
        >might to obtai= n the position it is in now...
        >
        >I tend to think a people give Apple an exception on things that they
        >would = trash Microsoft for.=20

        Apple didn't violate antitrust at virtually every turn of the corner!
        Micro$oft was convicted by the DoJ as a criminal monopoly. The front
        page of the WSJ announcing this actions is framed upon the wall of my
        office!
      • Christian Liendo
        http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704657704576150350669475800.html WASHINGTON—U.S. antitrust enforcers have begun looking at the terms Apple Inc.
        Message 3 of 13 , Oct 7, 2011
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          http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704657704576150350669475800.html

          WASHINGTON—U.S. antitrust enforcers have begun looking at the terms Apple Inc. set this week for media companies who want to sell their content
          on its popular iPad and other devices, according to people familiar with the matter.



          http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/05/04/goverment-weighing-possible-apple-antitrust-probe/

          The Federal Trade Commission and the Department of Justice are exploring whether to open an antitrust inquiry into Apple over its
          recent actions restricting developers writing apps for its iPhone
          operating system.




          ________________________________
          From: "system@..." <system@...>

          Apple didn't violate antitrust at virtually every turn of the corner! Micro$oft was convicted by the DoJ as a criminal monopoly.  The front
          page of the WSJ announcing this actions is framed upon the wall of my office!
        • system@great-escape.tmesis.com
          ... ...but probes are not findings of fact in a court of law.
          Message 4 of 13 , Oct 7, 2011
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            Christian Liendo <christian_liendo@...> writes:

            >http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704657704576150350669475800.h=
            >tml
            >
            >WASHINGTON=E2=80=94U.S. antitrust enforcers have begun looking at the
            >terms= Apple Inc. set this week for media companies who want to sell
            >their conten= t=20 on its popular iPad and other devices, according to
            >people familiar with th= e matter.
            >
            >
            >
            >http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/05/04/goverment-weighing-possible-apple-=
            >antitrust-probe/
            >
            >The Federal Trade Commission and the Department of Justice are exploring
            >wh= ether to open an antitrust inquiry into Apple over its=20 recent
            >actions restricting developers writing apps for its iPhone=20 operating
            >system.

            ...but probes are not findings of fact in a court of law.
          • Christian Liendo
            From: system@great-escape.tmesis.com ... They are the beginning. It just means they are have not started nor finished their
            Message 5 of 13 , Oct 7, 2011
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              From: "system@..." <system@...>

              >...but probes are not findings of fact in a court of law.

              They are the beginning. It just means they are have not started nor finished their work.

              It took a while to take down Microsoft and the Justice Dept almost didn't.. 
              Had it been Microsoft, I bet you wouldn't claim innocent till proven guilty.


              The reality is that Apple has and still does anti-competitive practices and that had it been Microsoft people would be flipping out, but because it is Apple, people let it go.


              As early as the LISA, Apple sued other companies over the GUI that they didn't invent.
              Apple still does Patent Bullying and Corporate Bullying.
              Apple got the police to raid a blogger's home over a missing Iphone. 
              Where is the rage over that?



              While I am not defending Microsoft..

              I just think that people hate Microsoft, period to the point that they will excuse the same or worse behavior from other companies.

              I'm not saying that Microsoft doesn't deserve it, but so does other companies.
            • B Degnan
              ... I have said before it s not easy to separate your personal feelings from the facts. A human weakness. Simply put, who cares how MS or Apple ran their
              Message 6 of 13 , Oct 7, 2011
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                >
                >As early as the LISA, Apple sued other companies over the GUI that
                >they didn't invent.
                >Apple still does Patent Bullying and Corporate Bullying.
                >Apple got the police to raid a blogger's home over a missing Iphone.
                >Where is the rage over that?
                >
                >
                >
                >While I am not defending Microsoft..
                >
                >I just think that people hate Microsoft, period to the point that
                >they will excuse the same or worse behavior from other companies.
                >
                >I'm not saying that Microsoft doesn't deserve it, but so does other companies.

                I have said before it's not easy to separate your personal feelings
                from the facts. A human weakness. Simply put, who cares how MS or
                Apple ran their businesses, this is off topic to our group. The fact
                remains that both companies have survived into the 21st century in no
                small measure because of Gates and Jobs respectively. Get over it!
                You can count on one hand the people who were more influential in the
                later part of the 20th century microcomputing than those two.

                Bill
              • Christian Liendo
                Agreed. I do think how companies ran their business can be on-topic as they pertain to the history of computing. I mean had Digital embraced personal computers
                Message 7 of 13 , Oct 7, 2011
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                  Agreed.

                  I do think how companies ran their business can be on-topic as they pertain to the history of computing.
                  I mean had Digital embraced personal computers history would be different.
                  Had HP stopped Wozniak from making the Apple 1, history would be different.

                  Their decisions, failures and successes changed the computing landscape.


                  Bill Gates, the man.. Did contribute to the computing landscape, one cannot deny this.


                  ________________________________
                  From: B Degnan <billdeg@...>
                  I have said before it's not easy to separate your personal feelings
                  from the facts.  A human weakness.  Simply put, who cares how MS or
                  Apple ran their businesses, this is off topic to our group.  The fact
                  remains that both companies have survived into the 21st century in no
                  small measure because of Gates and Jobs respectively.    Get over it!
                  You can count on one hand the people who were more influential in the
                  later part of the 20th century microcomputing than those two.
                • Evan Koblentz
                  ... I agree, as long as it s a historic angle (vs. late-model Microsoft, etc.) and as long as the debate is constructive (not like some of the childish crap on
                  Message 8 of 13 , Oct 7, 2011
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                    > I do think how companies ran their business can be on-topic as they pertain to the history of computing.

                    I agree, as long as it's a historic angle (vs. late-model Microsoft,
                    etc.) and as long as the debate is constructive (not like some of the
                    childish crap on cctalk.)
                  • Evan Koblentz
                    ... PS - I happened to reply to Chris message, but it was definitely not to imply that he was guilty of anything. Names have been changed to protect the
                    Message 9 of 13 , Oct 7, 2011
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                      >
                      >> I do think how companies ran their business can be on-topic as they pertain to the history of computing.
                      > I agree, as long as it's a historic angle (vs. late-model Microsoft, etc.) and as long as the debate is constructive (not like some of the childish crap on cctalk.)

                      PS - I happened to reply to Chris' message, but it was definitely not to
                      imply that he was guilty of anything. "Names have been changed to
                      protect the innocent." :)
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