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RE: [midatlanticretro] Board Storage

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  • Bob Applegate
    ... The problem with cardboard is that it s an insulator, which means it DOES create static. Put two pieces of paper together and pull them apart... static
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 3, 2006
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      Richard A. Cini <rcini@...> wrote :

      > What I do is collect various cardboard boxes from my eBay, Amazon, and
      > Digi-Key purchases and use them. I put a layer of anti-stat (pink) bubble
      > wrap or cellular foam on the bottom (mostly for cushioning). Then, I put
      > each board in an 8x10 anti-stat bag (bought on eBay).
      >
      > The stat bags are mostly to keep the boards dust-free and easily
      > transportable. Cardboard is non-static by its nature. I would consider
      > throwing some desiccant packs in the box, too. By the way, if anyone has a
      > good source for desiccant packs, let me know. 

      The problem with cardboard is that it's an insulator, which means it
      DOES create static. Put two pieces of paper together and pull them apart...
      static causes the cling. Any insulators that rub together create a static
      charge.

      At my company, everyone has to go through ESD (Electro-static discharge)
      training each year because we handle PC boards that cost $2500 each. We
      get tested every year, and have to follow all the proper procedures:
      conductive smocks, testing wrist-staps daily, no papers or other insulators
      on workbenches, all PC boards must be in Faraday shields while being
      transported, etc.

      The "anti static" bag is conductive; it forms a Faraday shield around the
      objects inside. Once the bag is opened, you're at risk for a discharge.

      Hey, Bob Grieb should be commenting on this! He's a professional Hardware
      guy; I'm just an embedded software person.

      Bob


      ___________________________________
      NOCC, http://nocc.sourceforge.net
    • Kelly Leavitt
      ... Know any good suppliers or manufacturers? I ll try ebay, but a name would help. Thanks, Kelly
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 3, 2006
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        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Bob Applegate [mailto:bob@...]
        > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 9:31 PM
        >
        > Degnan <billdeg@...> wrote :
        >
        > > I bought a cloth shoe tree..pretty lame acutally, but it is what
        > > it is for now
        > (http://www.vintagecomputer.net/pictures/P1010002.JPG).
        > > I could use some help in that department as well.
        > >
        > > At Friday, 3 February 2006, you wrote:
        > >
        > >>I need some ideas for storing the "spare" circuit
        > boards around
        > > here.
        > >>They're all different sizes and shapes. Most are close to S-100
        > > in size.
        > >>Some a lot smaller, a few about double in size. Any suggestions
        > > on safe,
        > >>static free storage and stacking?
        >
        > Invest in REAL anti-static packaging. They stack well, have
        > adjustable
        > spacers to adapt to the board sizes, etc.

        Know any good suppliers or manufacturers? I'll try ebay, but a name would
        help.

        Thanks,
        Kelly
      • Richard A. Cini
        I apologize then. I got my info on the cardboard from a thread on the ClassicCmp list. I also have an anti-static (grounded) mat on the top of my workbench.
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 3, 2006
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          I apologize then. I got my info on the cardboard from a thread on the
          ClassicCmp list. I also have an anti-static (grounded) mat on the top of my
          workbench.

          I've also seen black ESD boxes in some catalogs which from the catalog look
          like cardboard. What are these made of? What's a good (read: cheap) source
          for them since I'm now paranoid about my current storage methods
          (notwithstanding my track record of no problems).

          -----Original Message-----
          From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Applegate
          Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 9:43 PM
          To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Board Storage

          Richard A. Cini <rcini@...> wrote :

          > What I do is collect various cardboard boxes from my eBay, Amazon, and
          > Digi-Key purchases and use them. I put a layer of anti-stat (pink) bubble
          > wrap or cellular foam on the bottom (mostly for cushioning). Then, I put
          > each board in an 8x10 anti-stat bag (bought on eBay).
          >
          > The stat bags are mostly to keep the boards dust-free and easily
          > transportable. Cardboard is non-static by its nature. I would consider
          > throwing some desiccant packs in the box, too. By the way, if anyone has a
          > good source for desiccant packs, let me know. 

          The problem with cardboard is that it's an insulator, which means it
          DOES create static. Put two pieces of paper together and pull them apart...
          static causes the cling. Any insulators that rub together create a static
          charge.

          At my company, everyone has to go through ESD (Electro-static discharge)
          training each year because we handle PC boards that cost $2500 each. We
          get tested every year, and have to follow all the proper procedures:
          conductive smocks, testing wrist-staps daily, no papers or other insulators
          on workbenches, all PC boards must be in Faraday shields while being
          transported, etc.

          The "anti static" bag is conductive; it forms a Faraday shield around the
          objects inside. Once the bag is opened, you're at risk for a discharge.

          Hey, Bob Grieb should be commenting on this! He's a professional Hardware
          guy; I'm just an embedded software person.

          Bob


          ___________________________________
          NOCC, http://nocc.sourceforge.net





          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • Degnan
          For the record...I store all of my important cards and boards in isolated anti-static 3M standard bags. I avoid stacking or stressing. The shoe tree I
          Message 4 of 18 , Feb 3, 2006
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            For the record...I store all of my important cards and boards in
            isolated anti-static 3M standard bags. I avoid stacking or stressing.
            The shoe tree I mentioned earlier is really just for supplies or
            temporary storage not for serious stuff.
            Bill

            At Friday, 03 February 2006, you wrote:

            >I apologize then. I got my info on the cardboard from a thread on the
            >ClassicCmp list. I also have an anti-static (grounded) mat on the
            top of my
            >workbench.
            >
            >I've also seen black ESD boxes in some catalogs which from the catalog
            look
            >like cardboard. What are these made of? What's a good (read: cheap)
            source
            >for them since I'm now paranoid about my current storage methods
            >(notwithstanding my track record of no problems).
            >
            >-----Original Message-----
            >From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
            >[mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Applegate
            >Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 9:43 PM
            >To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Board Storage
            >
            >Richard A. Cini <rcini@...> wrote :
            >
            >> What I do is collect various cardboard boxes from my eBay, Amazon,
            and
            >> Digi-Key purchases and use them. I put a layer of anti-stat (pink)
            bubble
            >> wrap or cellular foam on the bottom (mostly for cushioning). Then,
            I put
            >> each board in an 8x10 anti-stat bag (bought on eBay).
            >>
            >> The stat bags are mostly to keep the boards dust-free and easily
            >> transportable. Cardboard is non-static by its nature. I would
            consider
            >> throwing some desiccant packs in the box, too. By the way, if
            anyone has a
            >> good source for desiccant packs, let me know. 
            >
            >The problem with cardboard is that it's an insulator, which means it
            >DOES create static. Put two pieces of paper together and pull them
            apart...
            >static causes the cling. Any insulators that rub together create
            a static
            >charge.
            >
            >At my company, everyone has to go through ESD (Electro-static discharge)
            >training each year because we handle PC boards that cost $2500 each.
            We
            >get tested every year, and have to follow all the proper procedures:
            >conductive smocks, testing wrist-staps daily, no papers or other
            insulators
            >on workbenches, all PC boards must be in Faraday shields while being
            >transported, etc.
            >
            >The "anti static" bag is conductive; it forms a Faraday shield around
            the
            >objects inside. Once the bag is opened, you're at risk for a discharge.

            >
            >Hey, Bob Grieb should be commenting on this! He's a professional
            Hardware
            >guy; I'm just an embedded software person.
            >
            >Bob
            >
            >___________________________________
            >NOCC, http://nocc.sourceforge.net
            >
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >



            -- E N D --
          • Bob Applegate
            ... The ground is a good thing to have! ... Those are exactly what I was talking about. They re pretty light, and appear to be a conductive plastic of some
            Message 5 of 18 , Feb 3, 2006
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              Richard A. Cini <rcini@...> wrote :

              > I apologize then. I got my info on the cardboard from a thread on the
              > ClassicCmp list. I also have an anti-static (grounded) mat on the top of my
              > workbench.

              The ground is a good thing to have!

              > I've also seen black ESD boxes in some catalogs which from the catalog look
              > like cardboard. What are these made of? What's a good (read: cheap) source
              > for them since I'm now paranoid about my current storage methods
              > (notwithstanding my track record of no problems).

              Those are exactly what I was talking about. They're pretty light, and
              appear to be a conductive plastic of some sort, but I have no idea of
              who makes them. I can tell you who makes our development tools, ICEs,
              and JTAG programmers, but the ESD stuff is handled by a different
              department, and none of those folks appear to be on IM right now to ask.

              I'll get a brand name on Monday, but I'm sure folks will find sources
              long before then.

              Hey, if we can buy in bulk, I'd be interested in a couple of them...
              might be a mini fund-raiser for MARCH!

              Bob


              ___________________________________
              NOCC, http://nocc.sourceforge.net
            • Kelly Leavitt
              ... http://www.all-spec.com has multi cell Conductive Corrugated Containers. Price seems reasonable, but minimum purchase is 4 or more units (depends on
              Message 6 of 18 , Feb 4, 2006
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                <snip>

                >
                > I'll get a brand name on Monday, but I'm sure folks will find sources
                > long before then.
                >
                > Hey, if we can buy in bulk, I'd be interested in a couple of them...
                > might be a mini fund-raiser for MARCH!
                >

                http://www.all-spec.com

                has multi cell Conductive Corrugated Containers. Price seems reasonable, but
                minimum purchase is 4 or more units (depends on the unit). Any other
                candidates?

                Kelly
              • Richard A. Cini
                Which item number are you looking at for S100 boards? How would you propose doing a group purchase? I have about 40 boards and you could probably put more than
                Message 7 of 18 , Feb 4, 2006
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                  Which item number are you looking at for S100 boards? How would you propose
                  doing a group purchase? I have about 40 boards and you could probably put
                  more than one board in each cell.


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kelly Leavitt
                  Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 5:32 AM
                  To: 'midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com'
                  Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Board Storage

                  <snip>

                  >
                  > I'll get a brand name on Monday, but I'm sure folks will find sources
                  > long before then.
                  >
                  > Hey, if we can buy in bulk, I'd be interested in a couple of them...
                  > might be a mini fund-raiser for MARCH!
                  >

                  http://www.all-spec.com

                  has multi cell Conductive Corrugated Containers. Price seems reasonable, but
                  minimum purchase is 4 or more units (depends on the unit). Any other
                  candidates?

                  Kelly



                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                • Degnan
                  You can count me in for one or two. Bill ... but ... -- E N D --
                  Message 8 of 18 , Feb 4, 2006
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                    You can count me in for one or two.
                    Bill

                    At Saturday, 4 February 2006, you wrote:

                    ><snip>
                    >
                    >>
                    >> I'll get a brand name on Monday, but I'm sure folks will find sources
                    >> long before then.
                    >>
                    >> Hey, if we can buy in bulk, I'd be interested in a couple of them...
                    >> might be a mini fund-raiser for MARCH!
                    >>
                    >
                    >http://www.all-spec.com
                    >
                    >has multi cell Conductive Corrugated Containers. Price seems reasonable,
                    but
                    >minimum purchase is 4 or more units (depends on the unit). Any other
                    >candidates?
                    >
                    >Kelly
                    >
                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >



                    -- E N D --
                  • Kelly Leavitt
                    The boards I need to store are 10x6. Would this size fit for anyone else? Conductive Containers Inc. has 4 models that would work for this board size. The one
                    Message 9 of 18 , Feb 4, 2006
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                      The boards I need to store are 10x6. Would this size fit for anyone else?

                      Conductive Containers Inc. has 4 models that would work for this board size.
                      The one I like is 10.75 x 7, with 30 cells.

                      I have contacted a NJ based distributor to see how much for 4 or 5 of these.

                      I'll let you know if/when they respond.

                      Kelly

                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Degnan [mailto:billdeg@...]
                      > Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 11:09 AM
                      > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Board Storage
                      >
                      >
                      > You can count me in for one or two.
                      > Bill
                      >
                      > At Saturday, 4 February 2006, you wrote:
                      >
                      > ><snip>
                      > >
                      > >>
                      > >> I'll get a brand name on Monday, but I'm sure folks will
                      > find sources
                      > >> long before then.
                      > >>
                      > >> Hey, if we can buy in bulk, I'd be interested in a couple
                      > of them...
                      > >> might be a mini fund-raiser for MARCH!
                      > >>
                      > >
                      > >http://www.all-spec.com
                      > >
                      > >has multi cell Conductive Corrugated Containers. Price seems
                      > reasonable,
                      > but
                      > >minimum purchase is 4 or more units (depends on the unit). Any other
                      > >candidates?
                      > >
                      > >Kelly
                      > >
                      > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > -- E N D --
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • B. Degnan
                      Something that would fit say a IBM PC motherboard I estimate to be 20 x 16 would be more practical for me. Would that be a lot more expensive? Even if some
                      Message 10 of 18 , Feb 4, 2006
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                        Something that would fit say a IBM PC motherboard I estimate to be 20 x 16
                        would be more practical for me. Would that be a lot more expensive? Even
                        if some of the cards are smaller I have a need to store motherboards and
                        large cards as well as your smaller controllers.
                        Bill

                        At 04:42 PM 2/4/2006 -0500, you wrote:
                        >The boards I need to store are 10x6. Would this size fit for anyone else?
                        >
                        >Conductive Containers Inc. has 4 models that would work for this board size.
                        >The one I like is 10.75 x 7, with 30 cells.
                        >
                        >I have contacted a NJ based distributor to see how much for 4 or 5 of these.
                        >
                        >I'll let you know if/when they respond.
                        >
                        >Kelly
                        >
                        > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > From: Degnan [mailto:billdeg@...]
                        > > Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 11:09 AM
                        > > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Board Storage
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > You can count me in for one or two.
                        > > Bill
                        > >
                        > > At Saturday, 4 February 2006, you wrote:
                        > >
                        > > ><snip>
                        > > >
                        > > >>
                        > > >> I'll get a brand name on Monday, but I'm sure folks will
                        > > find sources
                        > > >> long before then.
                        > > >>
                        > > >> Hey, if we can buy in bulk, I'd be interested in a couple
                        > > of them...
                        > > >> might be a mini fund-raiser for MARCH!
                        > > >>
                        > > >
                        > > >http://www.all-spec.com
                        > > >
                        > > >has multi cell Conductive Corrugated Containers. Price seems
                        > > reasonable,
                        > > but
                        > > >minimum purchase is 4 or more units (depends on the unit). Any other
                        > > >candidates?
                        > > >
                        > > >Kelly
                        > > >
                        > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > -- E N D --
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Richard A. Cini
                        I m looking for S100-size, which are around 10 wide and 6.5 high. So, the one you picked for yourself would work for me too. Rich ... From:
                        Message 11 of 18 , Feb 4, 2006
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                          I'm looking for S100-size, which are around 10" wide and 6.5" high. So, the
                          one you picked for yourself would work for me too.

                          Rich


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                          [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B. Degnan
                          Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 7:23 PM
                          To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Board Storage

                          Something that would fit say a IBM PC motherboard I estimate to be 20 x 16
                          would be more practical for me. Would that be a lot more expensive? Even
                          if some of the cards are smaller I have a need to store motherboards and
                          large cards as well as your smaller controllers.
                          Bill

                          At 04:42 PM 2/4/2006 -0500, you wrote:
                          >The boards I need to store are 10x6. Would this size fit for anyone else?
                          >
                          >Conductive Containers Inc. has 4 models that would work for this board
                          size.
                          >The one I like is 10.75 x 7, with 30 cells.
                          >
                          >I have contacted a NJ based distributor to see how much for 4 or 5 of
                          these.
                          >
                          >I'll let you know if/when they respond.
                          >
                          >Kelly
                          >
                          > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > From: Degnan [mailto:billdeg@...]
                          > > Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 11:09 AM
                          > > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Board Storage
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > You can count me in for one or two.
                          > > Bill
                          > >
                          > > At Saturday, 4 February 2006, you wrote:
                          > >
                          > > ><snip>
                          > > >
                          > > >>
                          > > >> I'll get a brand name on Monday, but I'm sure folks will
                          > > find sources
                          > > >> long before then.
                          > > >>
                          > > >> Hey, if we can buy in bulk, I'd be interested in a couple
                          > > of them...
                          > > >> might be a mini fund-raiser for MARCH!
                          > > >>
                          > > >
                          > > >http://www.all-spec.com
                          > > >
                          > > >has multi cell Conductive Corrugated Containers. Price seems
                          > > reasonable,
                          > > but
                          > > >minimum purchase is 4 or more units (depends on the unit). Any other
                          > > >candidates?
                          > > >
                          > > >Kelly
                          > > >
                          > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > -- E N D --
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >





                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                        • John Allain
                          ... I got this name http://www.uline.com off of some antistatic bags I saved. They have the semisilver bags everyone s familliar with, also soft bubblecell and
                          Message 12 of 18 , Feb 4, 2006
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                            >> I'll get a brand name on Monday, but I'm sure folks will find sources
                            >> long before then.

                            I got this name http://www.uline.com
                            off of some antistatic bags I saved.
                            They have the semisilver bags everyone's familliar with, also soft
                            bubblecell
                            and ziplocking top options, probably many more. I thought ordering 100
                            was extravagant until I started using them for everything.
                            Time for me to order more. 100% satisfied.
                            http://www.uline.com/Class_21.asp?searchedkeywords=antistatic
                            They also have the pro boxes.

                            John A.
                            customer only, no other affiliation
                          • Bob Applegate
                            Okay, here at work we use ESD carriers ( totes ) made by Lewisystems. I did a quick search and happened to find some guy selling used ones, and the second
                            Message 13 of 18 , Feb 7, 2006
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                              Okay, here at work we use ESD carriers ("totes") made by Lewisystems.  I did
                              a quick search and happened to find some guy selling used ones, and the
                              second picture shows more detail than all the dealer pages:
                               
                              http://www.aa9tt.com/Fun_Stuff/Amplifiers/For_Sale/Equipment_Index/ESD_Board_Carriers_/esd_board_carriers_.html
                               
                              You can clearly see the totes have slots in the side walls to hold dividers.  The
                              dividers have slots so they can be configured as-needed to fit whatever the board
                              dimensions happen to be.
                               
                              These appear to be quite expensive new, so they're probably more than most people
                              want to spend on hobby projects.  However, they are very nice, stack well, can be
                              configured to hold many different board sizes, and are designed to provide a good
                              ESD shield around whatever is in them.  They're strong too... it's okay to pile them
                              on top of one another without worrying about crushing them.
                               
                              Rubbermaid offers a series of ESB totes as well.  Here is a page selling them:
                               
                               
                              None of this stuff is cheap, but it's a much better way to store sensitive boards/components
                              for long-term use.  Of course, you also need to make sure your work area is grounded
                              properly, you follow decent ESD procedures when handling boards, etc.
                               
                              73
                               
                              Bob - K2UT
                               
                              -------------------------------------------------
                              Bob Applegate
                              Senior Member Technical Staff
                              Platform Development
                              Ulticom, Inc
                              856-787-2761
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