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RE: [midatlanticretro] Lisa landfill

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  • Chris M
    just curious why they would have gone to the trouble of running them over with bulldozers. Would not dumping them several states away be enough to constitute
    Message 1 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
      just curious why they would have gone to the trouble
      of running them over with bulldozers. Would not
      dumping them several states away be enough to
      constitute destruction? Did the bean counters worry
      someone would drive out there and retrieve them?
      --- midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
      <rcini@...> wrote:
      > It was a tax issue for Apple. IIRC, they did this at
      the EOL of the Lisa
      > line. They couldn't sell them and they couldn't take
      the write-off --
      > remembering back to accounting, you can write-down
      inventory to its fair
      > market value (zero in this case), but of course you
      take a charge to
      > earnings for that amount.
      >
      > There's a loophole however in that if you destroy
      them, you can take the
      > write-off with no hit to earnings, although I don't
      know the finer points of
      > that tax treatment. I remember reading that they
      brought them to the
      > landfill and ran them over with bulldozers.
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
      > [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      Of Ray Sills
      > Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:59 PM
      > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Lisa landfill
      >
      > And... there's another issue: permission. The
      landfill could be on
      > private property... or government property, and the
      people who
      > control it might take exception to someone wandering
      on to the
      > property, and digging up items that are buried.
      >
      > Some discarded items are just left on the surface,
      like old airplanes
      > located in various mothball locations in the
      southwest. But, if
      > these items are in a true landfill, it might not be
      possible to open
      > the landfill without a court order or something like
      that. And the
      > EPA might also not want anyone digging, either.
      >
      > Still, it's a shame that some neat stuff has been
      disposed of by
      > dumping. Apple Computer didn't have an Apple Store
      on the web back
      > then to enable them to sell the LISAs as
      "refurbished".
      >
      > 73 de Ray
      >
      > On Jan 26, 2006, at 7:30 PM, Jim Scheef wrote:
      >
      > > Joe,
      > >
      > > Well... if the soil is prefectly dry, then it
      might be possible.
      > > The machines
      > > might even be in good shape if they were not
      crushed.
      > >
      > > People are recovering amazing things. A few years
      ago a group of
      > > well-funded
      > > people dug a Lockeed P-38 (the airplane) out of a
      glacier on
      > > Greenland and,
      > > after a large infusion of cash, made it fly again.
      So recovering
      > > some Lisas
      > > from a landfill should be a piece of cake!
      > >
      > > Jim
      > >
      > > --- Joe Giliberti <starbase89@...>
      wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >> I remember reading that sometime in 1984 that
      Atari dumped several
      > >> million E.T. 2600 cartidges in a desert landfill.
      I was recently
      > >> read an
      > >> article about a couple goys who went out and
      recovered several
      > >> hundred
      > >> of these cartridges and were still able to get
      them to work. Now,
      > >> I'va
      > >> also read that sometime in 1989, Apple dumped
      several thousand Lisa
      > >> computer systems in a desert landfill. Do you
      think it would be
      > >> possible
      > >> to recover any of those in a similar fashion? Not
      that I'm
      > >> interested in
      > >> going to Utah, but out of curiousity.
      > >>
      > >>
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


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    • Richard A. Cini
      Actually, yes. There s something in the tax code that specifies that they have to be damaged beyond serviceability. ... From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
      Message 2 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
        Actually, yes. There's something in the tax code that specifies that they
        have to be damaged beyond serviceability.

        -----Original Message-----
        From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris M
        Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 9:40 PM
        To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Lisa landfill

        just curious why they would have gone to the trouble
        of running them over with bulldozers. Would not
        dumping them several states away be enough to
        constitute destruction? Did the bean counters worry
        someone would drive out there and retrieve them?
        --- midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
        <rcini@...> wrote:
        > It was a tax issue for Apple. IIRC, they did this at
        the EOL of the Lisa
        > line. They couldn't sell them and they couldn't take
        the write-off --
        > remembering back to accounting, you can write-down
        inventory to its fair
        > market value (zero in this case), but of course you
        take a charge to
        > earnings for that amount.
        >
        > There's a loophole however in that if you destroy
        them, you can take the
        > write-off with no hit to earnings, although I don't
        know the finer points of
        > that tax treatment. I remember reading that they
        brought them to the
        > landfill and ran them over with bulldozers.
        >
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Ray Sills
        > Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:59 PM
        > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Lisa landfill
        >
        > And... there's another issue: permission. The
        landfill could be on
        > private property... or government property, and the
        people who
        > control it might take exception to someone wandering
        on to the
        > property, and digging up items that are buried.
        >
        > Some discarded items are just left on the surface,
        like old airplanes
        > located in various mothball locations in the
        southwest. But, if
        > these items are in a true landfill, it might not be
        possible to open
        > the landfill without a court order or something like
        that. And the
        > EPA might also not want anyone digging, either.
        >
        > Still, it's a shame that some neat stuff has been
        disposed of by
        > dumping. Apple Computer didn't have an Apple Store
        on the web back
        > then to enable them to sell the LISAs as
        "refurbished".
        >
        > 73 de Ray
        >
        > On Jan 26, 2006, at 7:30 PM, Jim Scheef wrote:
        >
        > > Joe,
        > >
        > > Well... if the soil is prefectly dry, then it
        might be possible.
        > > The machines
        > > might even be in good shape if they were not
        crushed.
        > >
        > > People are recovering amazing things. A few years
        ago a group of
        > > well-funded
        > > people dug a Lockeed P-38 (the airplane) out of a
        glacier on
        > > Greenland and,
        > > after a large infusion of cash, made it fly again.
        So recovering
        > > some Lisas
        > > from a landfill should be a piece of cake!
        > >
        > > Jim
        > >
        > > --- Joe Giliberti <starbase89@...>
        wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >> I remember reading that sometime in 1984 that
        Atari dumped several
        > >> million E.T. 2600 cartidges in a desert landfill.
        I was recently
        > >> read an
        > >> article about a couple goys who went out and
        recovered several
        > >> hundred
        > >> of these cartridges and were still able to get
        them to work. Now,
        > >> I'va
        > >> also read that sometime in 1989, Apple dumped
        several thousand Lisa
        > >> computer systems in a desert landfill. Do you
        think it would be
        > >> possible
        > >> to recover any of those in a similar fashion? Not
        that I'm
        > >> interested in
        > >> going to Utah, but out of curiousity.
        > >>
        > >>
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


        __________________________________________________
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        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        http://mail.yahoo.com



        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • Chris M
        regardless, how would you go about pinpointing just where they were buried (were they likely buried?). That place likely takes up hundreds of acres, if not
        Message 3 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
          regardless, how would you go about pinpointing just
          where they were buried (were they likely buried?).
          That place likely takes up hundreds of acres, if not
          thousands. What else groovy was landfilled? Was it
          just Atari carts? What about puters?
          --- casting@yahoogroups.com <lathe9x20@...>
          wrote:
          > Hello, Mike
          >
          > Brass can be blackened chemically, and aluminum can
          be anodized black.
          > Check Caswell Plating http://www.caswellplating.com
          for supplies for
          > the AL. There are pictures of black gun parts
          there. Don't even try
          > to use the "instant blue for aluminum" from the gun
          dept of WalMart.
          > It doesn't last.
          >
          > For brass finishes try
          http://www.sculptnouveau.com/, or the science
          > company at
          http://www.coscosci.com/patinas/index.htm.
          >
          > If it were me, I'd look very seriously at paints
          applied with an
          > inexpensive air brush. Epoxy paint is damn tough!
          >
          > 'hope this helps
          >
          > JohnL
          >
          >
          > The
          >
          > --- In casting@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <ezme@r...>
          wrote:
          > >
          > > I am using brass and aluminum to fabricate scale
          models. I need to
          > > blacken the metals rather than paint them. I know
          there was a liquid
          > > by the name of Ebonol or Ebanol, it seems no
          longer available. I have
          > > checked on a substitute made by JAX (Supplied in
          the Grobet USA
          > > catalog) but Can$90.00 per gal it is rather
          expensive. Is there a way
          > > to achieve a really soft black finish without the
          use of expensive
          > > chemicals? The models in question will have some
          soft soldered joins
          > > so it won't be safe to apply any amount of heat.
          > >
          > > Mike
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >


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          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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        • Degnan
          I know that nearby where I live there are supposedly bulldozed under Commodore P500 s. I have called QVC (the home shopping tv station) who now occupies the
          Message 4 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
            I know that nearby where I live there are supposedly "bulldozed under"
            Commodore P500's. I have called QVC (the home shopping tv station)
            who now occupies the property once owned by Commodore in West Chester,
            PA. As you would expect they don't know much...but if anyone would
            like to do an expedition on the grounds of the office complex, let
            me know. I was told that they buried them "out back" but that's
            about all anyone knows. Would I run around with a metal detector
            and a shovel; yes I would! Anyone up for it? They could be buried
            under a parking lot by now...might make a fun little video. Imagine
            people digging for computers behind the QVC studio parking lot.

            Taking the video concept another step..has anyone seen the "Best
            In Show" movie about dog show particpants? Are we not the real-life
            equivalent of that movie, being so involved with such a specialized
            field as vintage computers to the point of doing a festival? Our
            group has some unique personalities, yes? I for one admit that I
            take this whole thing a little too far (ask my wife), but I don't
            care, if you're going to pick a hobby might as well dive in!

            I hope that this event is recorded for posterity. I will bring a
            video camera, maybe I will have time to do some interviews at the
            show.

            I posted my VCF exhibit on the VCF 3 site, I have not seen it yet,
            but I assume it's in pending status waiting for the site admin to
            approve and post to the public.

            Bill D

            At Thursday, 26 January 2006, you wrote:

            >regardless, how would you go about pinpointing just
            >where they were buried (were they likely buried?).
            >That place likely takes up hundreds of acres, if not
            >thousands. What else groovy was landfilled? Was it
            >just Atari carts? What about puters?
            >--- casting@yahoogroups.com <lathe9x20@...>
            >wrote:
            >> Hello, Mike
            >>
            >> Brass can be blackened chemically, and aluminum can
            >be anodized black.
            >> Check Caswell Plating http://www.caswellplating.com
            >for supplies for
            >> the AL. There are pictures of black gun parts
            >there. Don't even try
            >> to use the "instant blue for aluminum" from the gun
            >dept of WalMart.
            >> It doesn't last.
            >>
            >> For brass finishes try
            >http://www.sculptnouveau.com/, or the science
            >> company at
            >http://www.coscosci.com/patinas/index.htm.
            >>
            >> If it were me, I'd look very seriously at paints
            >applied with an
            >> inexpensive air brush. Epoxy paint is damn tough!
            >>
            >> 'hope this helps
            >>
            >> JohnL
            >>
            >>
            >> The
            >>
            >> --- In casting@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <ezme@r...>
            >wrote:
            >> >
            >> > I am using brass and aluminum to fabricate scale
            >models. I need to
            >> > blacken the metals rather than paint them. I know
            >there was a liquid
            >> > by the name of Ebonol or Ebanol, it seems no
            >longer available. I have
            >> > checked on a substitute made by JAX (Supplied in
            >the Grobet USA
            >> > catalog) but Can$90.00 per gal it is rather
            >expensive. Is there a way
            >> > to achieve a really soft black finish without the
            >use of expensive
            >> > chemicals? The models in question will have some
            >soft soldered joins
            >> > so it won't be safe to apply any amount of heat.
            >> >
            >> > Mike
            >> >
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >__________________________________________________
            >Do You Yahoo!?
            >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            >http://mail.yahoo.com
            >
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >



            -- E N D --
          • Evan
            Strange! I just logged in to the VCF admin site (Sellam hooked me up) and there were four exhibits waiting for approval. It s supposed to send me an email
            Message 5 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
              Strange! I just logged in to the VCF admin site (Sellam hooked me up) and
              there were four exhibits waiting for approval. It's supposed to send me an
              email each time someone registers. Oh well.

              The exhibits are all approved now -- check back there Bill.

              -----Original Message-----
              From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Degnan
              Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 12:10 AM
              To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] re:Lisa landfill

              I know that nearby where I live there are supposedly "bulldozed under"
              Commodore P500's. I have called QVC (the home shopping tv station) who now
              occupies the property once owned by Commodore in West Chester, PA. As you
              would expect they don't know much...but if anyone would like to do an
              expedition on the grounds of the office complex, let me know. I was told
              that they buried them "out back" but that's about all anyone knows. Would I
              run around with a metal detector and a shovel; yes I would! Anyone up for
              it? They could be buried under a parking lot by now...might make a fun
              little video. Imagine people digging for computers behind the QVC studio
              parking lot.

              Taking the video concept another step..has anyone seen the "Best In Show"
              movie about dog show particpants? Are we not the real-life equivalent of
              that movie, being so involved with such a specialized field as vintage
              computers to the point of doing a festival? Our group has some unique
              personalities, yes? I for one admit that I take this whole thing a little
              too far (ask my wife), but I don't care, if you're going to pick a hobby
              might as well dive in!

              I hope that this event is recorded for posterity. I will bring a video
              camera, maybe I will have time to do some interviews at the show.

              I posted my VCF exhibit on the VCF 3 site, I have not seen it yet, but I
              assume it's in pending status waiting for the site admin to approve and post
              to the public.

              Bill D

              At Thursday, 26 January 2006, you wrote:

              >regardless, how would you go about pinpointing just where they were
              >buried (were they likely buried?).
              >That place likely takes up hundreds of acres, if not thousands. What
              >else groovy was landfilled? Was it just Atari carts? What about puters?
              >--- casting@yahoogroups.com <lathe9x20@...>
              >wrote:
              >> Hello, Mike
              >>
              >> Brass can be blackened chemically, and aluminum can
              >be anodized black.
              >> Check Caswell Plating http://www.caswellplating.com
              >for supplies for
              >> the AL. There are pictures of black gun parts
              >there. Don't even try
              >> to use the "instant blue for aluminum" from the gun
              >dept of WalMart.
              >> It doesn't last.
              >>
              >> For brass finishes try
              >http://www.sculptnouveau.com/, or the science
              >> company at
              >http://www.coscosci.com/patinas/index.htm.
              >>
              >> If it were me, I'd look very seriously at paints
              >applied with an
              >> inexpensive air brush. Epoxy paint is damn tough!
              >>
              >> 'hope this helps
              >>
              >> JohnL
              >>
              >>
              >> The
              >>
              >> --- In casting@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <ezme@r...>
              >wrote:
              >> >
              >> > I am using brass and aluminum to fabricate scale
              >models. I need to
              >> > blacken the metals rather than paint them. I know
              >there was a liquid
              >> > by the name of Ebonol or Ebanol, it seems no
              >longer available. I have
              >> > checked on a substitute made by JAX (Supplied in
              >the Grobet USA
              >> > catalog) but Can$90.00 per gal it is rather
              >expensive. Is there a way
              >> > to achieve a really soft black finish without the
              >use of expensive
              >> > chemicals? The models in question will have some
              >soft soldered joins
              >> > so it won't be safe to apply any amount of heat.
              >> >
              >> > Mike
              >> >
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >__________________________________________________
              >Do You Yahoo!?
              >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              >http://mail.yahoo.com
              >
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >



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