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RE: [midatlanticretro] Lisa landfill

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  • Richard A. Cini
    It was a tax issue for Apple. IIRC, they did this at the EOL of the Lisa line. They couldn t sell them and they couldn t take the write-off -- remembering back
    Message 1 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
      It was a tax issue for Apple. IIRC, they did this at the EOL of the Lisa
      line. They couldn't sell them and they couldn't take the write-off --
      remembering back to accounting, you can write-down inventory to its fair
      market value (zero in this case), but of course you take a charge to
      earnings for that amount.

      There's a loophole however in that if you destroy them, you can take the
      write-off with no hit to earnings, although I don't know the finer points of
      that tax treatment. I remember reading that they brought them to the
      landfill and ran them over with bulldozers.



      -----Original Message-----
      From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sills
      Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:59 PM
      To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Lisa landfill

      And... there's another issue: permission. The landfill could be on
      private property... or government property, and the people who
      control it might take exception to someone wandering on to the
      property, and digging up items that are buried.

      Some discarded items are just left on the surface, like old airplanes
      located in various mothball locations in the southwest. But, if
      these items are in a true landfill, it might not be possible to open
      the landfill without a court order or something like that. And the
      EPA might also not want anyone digging, either.

      Still, it's a shame that some neat stuff has been disposed of by
      dumping. Apple Computer didn't have an Apple Store on the web back
      then to enable them to sell the LISAs as "refurbished".

      73 de Ray

      On Jan 26, 2006, at 7:30 PM, Jim Scheef wrote:

      > Joe,
      >
      > Well... if the soil is prefectly dry, then it might be possible.
      > The machines
      > might even be in good shape if they were not crushed.
      >
      > People are recovering amazing things. A few years ago a group of
      > well-funded
      > people dug a Lockeed P-38 (the airplane) out of a glacier on
      > Greenland and,
      > after a large infusion of cash, made it fly again. So recovering
      > some Lisas
      > from a landfill should be a piece of cake!
      >
      > Jim
      >
      > --- Joe Giliberti <starbase89@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >> I remember reading that sometime in 1984 that Atari dumped several
      >> million E.T. 2600 cartidges in a desert landfill. I was recently
      >> read an
      >> article about a couple goys who went out and recovered several
      >> hundred
      >> of these cartridges and were still able to get them to work. Now,
      >> I'va
      >> also read that sometime in 1989, Apple dumped several thousand Lisa
      >> computer systems in a desert landfill. Do you think it would be
      >> possible
      >> to recover any of those in a similar fashion? Not that I'm
      >> interested in
      >> going to Utah, but out of curiousity.
      >>
      >>



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    • Chris M
      just curious why they would have gone to the trouble of running them over with bulldozers. Would not dumping them several states away be enough to constitute
      Message 2 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
        just curious why they would have gone to the trouble
        of running them over with bulldozers. Would not
        dumping them several states away be enough to
        constitute destruction? Did the bean counters worry
        someone would drive out there and retrieve them?
        --- midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
        <rcini@...> wrote:
        > It was a tax issue for Apple. IIRC, they did this at
        the EOL of the Lisa
        > line. They couldn't sell them and they couldn't take
        the write-off --
        > remembering back to accounting, you can write-down
        inventory to its fair
        > market value (zero in this case), but of course you
        take a charge to
        > earnings for that amount.
        >
        > There's a loophole however in that if you destroy
        them, you can take the
        > write-off with no hit to earnings, although I don't
        know the finer points of
        > that tax treatment. I remember reading that they
        brought them to the
        > landfill and ran them over with bulldozers.
        >
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Ray Sills
        > Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:59 PM
        > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Lisa landfill
        >
        > And... there's another issue: permission. The
        landfill could be on
        > private property... or government property, and the
        people who
        > control it might take exception to someone wandering
        on to the
        > property, and digging up items that are buried.
        >
        > Some discarded items are just left on the surface,
        like old airplanes
        > located in various mothball locations in the
        southwest. But, if
        > these items are in a true landfill, it might not be
        possible to open
        > the landfill without a court order or something like
        that. And the
        > EPA might also not want anyone digging, either.
        >
        > Still, it's a shame that some neat stuff has been
        disposed of by
        > dumping. Apple Computer didn't have an Apple Store
        on the web back
        > then to enable them to sell the LISAs as
        "refurbished".
        >
        > 73 de Ray
        >
        > On Jan 26, 2006, at 7:30 PM, Jim Scheef wrote:
        >
        > > Joe,
        > >
        > > Well... if the soil is prefectly dry, then it
        might be possible.
        > > The machines
        > > might even be in good shape if they were not
        crushed.
        > >
        > > People are recovering amazing things. A few years
        ago a group of
        > > well-funded
        > > people dug a Lockeed P-38 (the airplane) out of a
        glacier on
        > > Greenland and,
        > > after a large infusion of cash, made it fly again.
        So recovering
        > > some Lisas
        > > from a landfill should be a piece of cake!
        > >
        > > Jim
        > >
        > > --- Joe Giliberti <starbase89@...>
        wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >> I remember reading that sometime in 1984 that
        Atari dumped several
        > >> million E.T. 2600 cartidges in a desert landfill.
        I was recently
        > >> read an
        > >> article about a couple goys who went out and
        recovered several
        > >> hundred
        > >> of these cartridges and were still able to get
        them to work. Now,
        > >> I'va
        > >> also read that sometime in 1989, Apple dumped
        several thousand Lisa
        > >> computer systems in a desert landfill. Do you
        think it would be
        > >> possible
        > >> to recover any of those in a similar fashion? Not
        that I'm
        > >> interested in
        > >> going to Utah, but out of curiousity.
        > >>
        > >>
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


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      • Richard A. Cini
        Actually, yes. There s something in the tax code that specifies that they have to be damaged beyond serviceability. ... From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
        Message 3 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
          Actually, yes. There's something in the tax code that specifies that they
          have to be damaged beyond serviceability.

          -----Original Message-----
          From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris M
          Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 9:40 PM
          To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Lisa landfill

          just curious why they would have gone to the trouble
          of running them over with bulldozers. Would not
          dumping them several states away be enough to
          constitute destruction? Did the bean counters worry
          someone would drive out there and retrieve them?
          --- midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
          <rcini@...> wrote:
          > It was a tax issue for Apple. IIRC, they did this at
          the EOL of the Lisa
          > line. They couldn't sell them and they couldn't take
          the write-off --
          > remembering back to accounting, you can write-down
          inventory to its fair
          > market value (zero in this case), but of course you
          take a charge to
          > earnings for that amount.
          >
          > There's a loophole however in that if you destroy
          them, you can take the
          > write-off with no hit to earnings, although I don't
          know the finer points of
          > that tax treatment. I remember reading that they
          brought them to the
          > landfill and ran them over with bulldozers.
          >
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          Of Ray Sills
          > Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:59 PM
          > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Lisa landfill
          >
          > And... there's another issue: permission. The
          landfill could be on
          > private property... or government property, and the
          people who
          > control it might take exception to someone wandering
          on to the
          > property, and digging up items that are buried.
          >
          > Some discarded items are just left on the surface,
          like old airplanes
          > located in various mothball locations in the
          southwest. But, if
          > these items are in a true landfill, it might not be
          possible to open
          > the landfill without a court order or something like
          that. And the
          > EPA might also not want anyone digging, either.
          >
          > Still, it's a shame that some neat stuff has been
          disposed of by
          > dumping. Apple Computer didn't have an Apple Store
          on the web back
          > then to enable them to sell the LISAs as
          "refurbished".
          >
          > 73 de Ray
          >
          > On Jan 26, 2006, at 7:30 PM, Jim Scheef wrote:
          >
          > > Joe,
          > >
          > > Well... if the soil is prefectly dry, then it
          might be possible.
          > > The machines
          > > might even be in good shape if they were not
          crushed.
          > >
          > > People are recovering amazing things. A few years
          ago a group of
          > > well-funded
          > > people dug a Lockeed P-38 (the airplane) out of a
          glacier on
          > > Greenland and,
          > > after a large infusion of cash, made it fly again.
          So recovering
          > > some Lisas
          > > from a landfill should be a piece of cake!
          > >
          > > Jim
          > >
          > > --- Joe Giliberti <starbase89@...>
          wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > >> I remember reading that sometime in 1984 that
          Atari dumped several
          > >> million E.T. 2600 cartidges in a desert landfill.
          I was recently
          > >> read an
          > >> article about a couple goys who went out and
          recovered several
          > >> hundred
          > >> of these cartridges and were still able to get
          them to work. Now,
          > >> I'va
          > >> also read that sometime in 1989, Apple dumped
          several thousand Lisa
          > >> computer systems in a desert landfill. Do you
          think it would be
          > >> possible
          > >> to recover any of those in a similar fashion? Not
          that I'm
          > >> interested in
          > >> going to Utah, but out of curiousity.
          > >>
          > >>
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >


          __________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          http://mail.yahoo.com



          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • Chris M
          regardless, how would you go about pinpointing just where they were buried (were they likely buried?). That place likely takes up hundreds of acres, if not
          Message 4 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
            regardless, how would you go about pinpointing just
            where they were buried (were they likely buried?).
            That place likely takes up hundreds of acres, if not
            thousands. What else groovy was landfilled? Was it
            just Atari carts? What about puters?
            --- casting@yahoogroups.com <lathe9x20@...>
            wrote:
            > Hello, Mike
            >
            > Brass can be blackened chemically, and aluminum can
            be anodized black.
            > Check Caswell Plating http://www.caswellplating.com
            for supplies for
            > the AL. There are pictures of black gun parts
            there. Don't even try
            > to use the "instant blue for aluminum" from the gun
            dept of WalMart.
            > It doesn't last.
            >
            > For brass finishes try
            http://www.sculptnouveau.com/, or the science
            > company at
            http://www.coscosci.com/patinas/index.htm.
            >
            > If it were me, I'd look very seriously at paints
            applied with an
            > inexpensive air brush. Epoxy paint is damn tough!
            >
            > 'hope this helps
            >
            > JohnL
            >
            >
            > The
            >
            > --- In casting@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <ezme@r...>
            wrote:
            > >
            > > I am using brass and aluminum to fabricate scale
            models. I need to
            > > blacken the metals rather than paint them. I know
            there was a liquid
            > > by the name of Ebonol or Ebanol, it seems no
            longer available. I have
            > > checked on a substitute made by JAX (Supplied in
            the Grobet USA
            > > catalog) but Can$90.00 per gal it is rather
            expensive. Is there a way
            > > to achieve a really soft black finish without the
            use of expensive
            > > chemicals? The models in question will have some
            soft soldered joins
            > > so it won't be safe to apply any amount of heat.
            > >
            > > Mike
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >


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            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            http://mail.yahoo.com
          • Degnan
            I know that nearby where I live there are supposedly bulldozed under Commodore P500 s. I have called QVC (the home shopping tv station) who now occupies the
            Message 5 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
              I know that nearby where I live there are supposedly "bulldozed under"
              Commodore P500's. I have called QVC (the home shopping tv station)
              who now occupies the property once owned by Commodore in West Chester,
              PA. As you would expect they don't know much...but if anyone would
              like to do an expedition on the grounds of the office complex, let
              me know. I was told that they buried them "out back" but that's
              about all anyone knows. Would I run around with a metal detector
              and a shovel; yes I would! Anyone up for it? They could be buried
              under a parking lot by now...might make a fun little video. Imagine
              people digging for computers behind the QVC studio parking lot.

              Taking the video concept another step..has anyone seen the "Best
              In Show" movie about dog show particpants? Are we not the real-life
              equivalent of that movie, being so involved with such a specialized
              field as vintage computers to the point of doing a festival? Our
              group has some unique personalities, yes? I for one admit that I
              take this whole thing a little too far (ask my wife), but I don't
              care, if you're going to pick a hobby might as well dive in!

              I hope that this event is recorded for posterity. I will bring a
              video camera, maybe I will have time to do some interviews at the
              show.

              I posted my VCF exhibit on the VCF 3 site, I have not seen it yet,
              but I assume it's in pending status waiting for the site admin to
              approve and post to the public.

              Bill D

              At Thursday, 26 January 2006, you wrote:

              >regardless, how would you go about pinpointing just
              >where they were buried (were they likely buried?).
              >That place likely takes up hundreds of acres, if not
              >thousands. What else groovy was landfilled? Was it
              >just Atari carts? What about puters?
              >--- casting@yahoogroups.com <lathe9x20@...>
              >wrote:
              >> Hello, Mike
              >>
              >> Brass can be blackened chemically, and aluminum can
              >be anodized black.
              >> Check Caswell Plating http://www.caswellplating.com
              >for supplies for
              >> the AL. There are pictures of black gun parts
              >there. Don't even try
              >> to use the "instant blue for aluminum" from the gun
              >dept of WalMart.
              >> It doesn't last.
              >>
              >> For brass finishes try
              >http://www.sculptnouveau.com/, or the science
              >> company at
              >http://www.coscosci.com/patinas/index.htm.
              >>
              >> If it were me, I'd look very seriously at paints
              >applied with an
              >> inexpensive air brush. Epoxy paint is damn tough!
              >>
              >> 'hope this helps
              >>
              >> JohnL
              >>
              >>
              >> The
              >>
              >> --- In casting@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <ezme@r...>
              >wrote:
              >> >
              >> > I am using brass and aluminum to fabricate scale
              >models. I need to
              >> > blacken the metals rather than paint them. I know
              >there was a liquid
              >> > by the name of Ebonol or Ebanol, it seems no
              >longer available. I have
              >> > checked on a substitute made by JAX (Supplied in
              >the Grobet USA
              >> > catalog) but Can$90.00 per gal it is rather
              >expensive. Is there a way
              >> > to achieve a really soft black finish without the
              >use of expensive
              >> > chemicals? The models in question will have some
              >soft soldered joins
              >> > so it won't be safe to apply any amount of heat.
              >> >
              >> > Mike
              >> >
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >__________________________________________________
              >Do You Yahoo!?
              >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              >http://mail.yahoo.com
              >
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >



              -- E N D --
            • Evan
              Strange! I just logged in to the VCF admin site (Sellam hooked me up) and there were four exhibits waiting for approval. It s supposed to send me an email
              Message 6 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
                Strange! I just logged in to the VCF admin site (Sellam hooked me up) and
                there were four exhibits waiting for approval. It's supposed to send me an
                email each time someone registers. Oh well.

                The exhibits are all approved now -- check back there Bill.

                -----Original Message-----
                From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Degnan
                Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 12:10 AM
                To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] re:Lisa landfill

                I know that nearby where I live there are supposedly "bulldozed under"
                Commodore P500's. I have called QVC (the home shopping tv station) who now
                occupies the property once owned by Commodore in West Chester, PA. As you
                would expect they don't know much...but if anyone would like to do an
                expedition on the grounds of the office complex, let me know. I was told
                that they buried them "out back" but that's about all anyone knows. Would I
                run around with a metal detector and a shovel; yes I would! Anyone up for
                it? They could be buried under a parking lot by now...might make a fun
                little video. Imagine people digging for computers behind the QVC studio
                parking lot.

                Taking the video concept another step..has anyone seen the "Best In Show"
                movie about dog show particpants? Are we not the real-life equivalent of
                that movie, being so involved with such a specialized field as vintage
                computers to the point of doing a festival? Our group has some unique
                personalities, yes? I for one admit that I take this whole thing a little
                too far (ask my wife), but I don't care, if you're going to pick a hobby
                might as well dive in!

                I hope that this event is recorded for posterity. I will bring a video
                camera, maybe I will have time to do some interviews at the show.

                I posted my VCF exhibit on the VCF 3 site, I have not seen it yet, but I
                assume it's in pending status waiting for the site admin to approve and post
                to the public.

                Bill D

                At Thursday, 26 January 2006, you wrote:

                >regardless, how would you go about pinpointing just where they were
                >buried (were they likely buried?).
                >That place likely takes up hundreds of acres, if not thousands. What
                >else groovy was landfilled? Was it just Atari carts? What about puters?
                >--- casting@yahoogroups.com <lathe9x20@...>
                >wrote:
                >> Hello, Mike
                >>
                >> Brass can be blackened chemically, and aluminum can
                >be anodized black.
                >> Check Caswell Plating http://www.caswellplating.com
                >for supplies for
                >> the AL. There are pictures of black gun parts
                >there. Don't even try
                >> to use the "instant blue for aluminum" from the gun
                >dept of WalMart.
                >> It doesn't last.
                >>
                >> For brass finishes try
                >http://www.sculptnouveau.com/, or the science
                >> company at
                >http://www.coscosci.com/patinas/index.htm.
                >>
                >> If it were me, I'd look very seriously at paints
                >applied with an
                >> inexpensive air brush. Epoxy paint is damn tough!
                >>
                >> 'hope this helps
                >>
                >> JohnL
                >>
                >>
                >> The
                >>
                >> --- In casting@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <ezme@r...>
                >wrote:
                >> >
                >> > I am using brass and aluminum to fabricate scale
                >models. I need to
                >> > blacken the metals rather than paint them. I know
                >there was a liquid
                >> > by the name of Ebonol or Ebanol, it seems no
                >longer available. I have
                >> > checked on a substitute made by JAX (Supplied in
                >the Grobet USA
                >> > catalog) but Can$90.00 per gal it is rather
                >expensive. Is there a way
                >> > to achieve a really soft black finish without the
                >use of expensive
                >> > chemicals? The models in question will have some
                >soft soldered joins
                >> > so it won't be safe to apply any amount of heat.
                >> >
                >> > Mike
                >> >
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >
                >__________________________________________________
                >Do You Yahoo!?
                >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                >http://mail.yahoo.com
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >



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