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Lisa landfill

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  • Joe Giliberti
    I remember reading that sometime in 1984 that Atari dumped several million E.T. 2600 cartidges in a desert landfill. I was recently read an article about a
    Message 1 of 21 , Jan 25, 2006
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      I remember reading that sometime in 1984 that Atari dumped several
      million E.T. 2600 cartidges in a desert landfill. I was recently read an
      article about a couple goys who went out and recovered several hundred
      of these cartridges and were still able to get them to work. Now, I'va
      also read that sometime in 1989, Apple dumped several thousand Lisa
      computer systems in a desert landfill. Do you think it would be possible
      to recover any of those in a similar fashion? Not that I'm interested in
      going to Utah, but out of curiousity.
    • Evan
      To be specific, that s 2,700 Lisas buried in a landfill in Logan, Utah, according to the book Apple Confidential . Joe, I hereby dispatch you as the MARCH
      Message 2 of 21 , Jan 25, 2006
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        To be specific, that's 2,700 Lisas buried in a landfill in Logan, Utah, according to the book "Apple Confidential".
         
        Joe, I hereby dispatch you as the MARCH ambassador to Logan, which is situated just 80 miles north of Salt Lake City.  If you return with a minimum of two original Lisas -- one for the club and one for me to sell on eBay -- then I'll personally reimburse you for the airplane ticket.
         
        Oh, and have fun digging through this: http://www.ci.logan.ut.us/envdiv/Landfill/landfill_main.htm

        From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Giliberti
        Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 11:29 PM
        To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [midatlanticretro] Lisa landfill

        I remember reading that sometime in 1984 that Atari dumped several
        million E.T. 2600 cartidges in a desert landfill. I was recently read an
        article about a couple goys who went out and recovered several hundred
        of these cartridges and were still able to get them to work. Now, I'va
        also read that sometime in 1989, Apple dumped several thousand Lisa
        computer systems in a desert landfill. Do you think it would be possible
        to recover any of those in a similar fashion? Not that I'm interested in
        going to Utah, but out of curiousity.
      • Degnan
        Commodore bulldozed under all of their P-500 computers in 1983-4. While you re at it, please dig up a couple of those and save one for me too. :-) Bill D ...
        Message 3 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
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          Commodore bulldozed under all of their P-500 computers in 1983-4.
          While you're at it, please dig up a couple of those and save one
          for me too. :-)

          Bill D

          At Wednesday, 25 January 2006, you wrote:

          >I remember reading that sometime in 1984 that Atari dumped several
          >million E.T. 2600 cartidges in a desert landfill. I was recently
          read an
          >article about a couple goys who went out and recovered several hundred
          >of these cartridges and were still able to get them to work. Now, I'va
          >also read that sometime in 1989, Apple dumped several thousand Lisa
          >computer systems in a desert landfill. Do you think it would be
          possible
          >to recover any of those in a similar fashion? Not that I'm interested
          in
          >going to Utah, but out of curiousity.
          >
          >Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >



          -- E N D --
        • ysgdhio
          ... read an ... Dunno about an article, but I did see the music video... http://www.boingboing.net/2006/01/24/music_video_tells_st.html Andy
          Message 4 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
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            --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Joe Giliberti
            <starbase89@o...> wrote:
            >
            > I remember reading that sometime in 1984 that Atari dumped several
            > million E.T. 2600 cartidges in a desert landfill. I was recently
            read an
            > article about a couple goys who went out and recovered several hundred
            > of these cartridges and were still able to get them to work.

            Dunno about an article, but I did see the music video...
            http://www.boingboing.net/2006/01/24/music_video_tells_st.html

            Andy
          • Joe Giliberti
            ... Hell, what have I gotten myself into?
            Message 5 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
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              Evan wrote:

              > To be specific, that's 2,700 Lisas buried in a landfill in Logan,
              > Utah, according to the book "Apple Confidential".
              >
              > Joe, I hereby dispatch you as the MARCH ambassador to Logan, which is
              > situated just 80 miles north of Salt Lake City. If you return with a
              > minimum of two original Lisas -- one for the club and one for me to
              > sell on eBay -- then I'll personally reimburse you for the airplane
              > ticket.
              >
              > Oh, and have fun digging through this:
              > http://www.ci.logan.ut.us/envdiv/Landfill/landfill_main.htm

              Hell, what have I gotten myself into?
            • Evan
              Ha! Love the video. Hey Bill, maybe your band could make some vintage tech songs to play at the VCF East party. It ll be at night. _____ From:
              Message 6 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
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                Ha!  Love the video.
                 
                Hey Bill, maybe your band could make some vintage tech songs to play at the VCF East party.  It'll be at night.
                 

                From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ysgdhio
                Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 8:37 AM
                To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [midatlanticretro] Re: Lisa landfill

                --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Joe Giliberti
                <starbase89@o...> wrote:
                >
                > I remember reading
                that sometime in 1984 that Atari dumped several
                > million E.T. 2600
                cartidges in a desert landfill. I was recently
                read an
                > article about
                a couple goys who went out and recovered several hundred
                > of these
                cartridges and were still able to get them to work.

                Dunno about an article, but I did see the music video...
                http://www.boingboing.net/2006/01/24/music_video_tells_st.html

                Andy



              • B. Degnan
                I have been working on music generated by the Commodore B series as part of my VCF exhibit, vintage techno
                Message 7 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
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                  I have been working on music generated by the Commodore B series as part of my VCF exhibit, "vintage techno" 

                  At 12:50 PM 1/26/2006 -0500, you wrote:
                  Ha!  Love the video.
                   
                  Hey Bill, maybe your band could make some vintage tech songs to play at the VCF East party.  It'll be at night.
                   

                  From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ysgdhio
                  Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 8:37 AM
                  To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [midatlanticretro] Re: Lisa landfill

                  --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Joe Giliberti
                  <starbase89@o...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I remember reading that sometime in 1984 that Atari dumped several
                  > million E.T. 2600 cartidges in a desert landfill. I was recently
                  read an
                  > article about a couple goys who went out and recovered several hundred
                  > of these cartridges and were still able to get them to work.

                  Dunno about an article, but I did see the music video...
                  http://www.boingboing.net/2006/01/24/music_video_tells_st.html

                  Andy





                  SPONSORED LINKS
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                  Field trip


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                • Evan
                  There s also a Music of Commodore 64 games CD which came with a recent issue of Retro Gamer magazine. I have the CD. Somewhere in the exhibit hall, there
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
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                    There's also a "Music of Commodore 64 games" CD which came with a recent issue of Retro Gamer magazine.  I have the CD.
                     
                    Somewhere in the exhibit hall, there will surely be an Atari at the ready, and we all know about the music coming from that thing.
                     
                    If anyone brings an Altair, then Erik Klein out in Cali has the "Fool on the Hill" program made famous at the Homebrew Computer Club.


                    From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B. Degnan
                    Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 1:06 PM
                    To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Re: Lisa landfill

                    I have been working on music generated by the Commodore B series as part of my VCF exhibit, "vintage techno" 

                    At 12:50 PM 1/26/2006 -0500, you wrote:
                    Ha!  Love the video.
                     
                    Hey Bill, maybe your band could make some vintage tech songs to play at the VCF East party.  It'll be at night.
                     

                    From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ysgdhio
                    Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 8:37 AM
                    To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [midatlanticretro] Re: Lisa landfill

                    --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Joe Giliberti
                    <starbase89@o...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I remember reading that sometime in 1984 that Atari dumped several
                    > million E.T. 2600 cartidges in a desert landfill. I was recently
                    read an
                    > article about a couple goys who went out and recovered several hundred
                    > of these cartridges and were still able to get them to work.

                    Dunno about an article, but I did see the music video...
                    http://www.boingboing.net/2006/01/24/music_video_tells_st.html

                    Andy





                    SPONSORED LINKS
                    Vintage computer Computer security Computer training
                    Field trip


                    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


                  • ysgdhio
                    ... ready, ... I m actually planning an Atari display, so there will be at least an 800XL there (with a 1.6GB hard drive). I ve also got an minty six-switch
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
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                      --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "Evan" <evan947@y...> wrote:

                      > Somewhere in the exhibit hall, there will surely be an Atari at the
                      ready,
                      > and we all know about the music coming from that thing.

                      I'm actually planning an Atari display, so there will be at least
                      an 800XL there (with a 1.6GB hard drive). I've also got an minty
                      six-switch 2600 console (always looking for cartridges), and possibly
                      a 520ST to look at.

                      Andy
                    • Evan
                      Great, please enter it on the vintage.org events page ASAP. :) _____ From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
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                        Great, please enter it on the vintage.org events page ASAP.   :)


                        From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ysgdhio
                        Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 3:20 PM
                        To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [midatlanticretro] Atari at VCF (was Re: Lisa landfill)

                        --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "Evan" <evan947@y...> wrote:

                        > Somewhere in the exhibit hall, there
                        will surely be an Atari at the
                        ready,
                        > and we all know about the music
                        coming from that thing.

                        I'm actually planning an Atari display, so there will be at least
                        an 800XL there (with a 1.6GB hard drive). I've also got an minty
                        six-switch 2600 console (always looking for cartridges), and possibly
                        a 520ST to look at.

                        Andy




                      • Richard A. Cini
                        While you re out there, you should look for Jimmy Hoffa. They never found him in the end zone of Giants Stadium :-) I personally would pay a share of your
                        Message 11 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
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                          While you're out there, you should look for Jimmy Hoffa. They never found
                          him in the end zone of Giants Stadium :-)

                          I personally would pay a share of your ticket for a LISA.

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                          [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Giliberti
                          Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 11:25 AM
                          To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Lisa landfill

                          Evan wrote:

                          > To be specific, that's 2,700 Lisas buried in a landfill in Logan,
                          > Utah, according to the book "Apple Confidential".
                          >
                          > Joe, I hereby dispatch you as the MARCH ambassador to Logan, which is
                          > situated just 80 miles north of Salt Lake City. If you return with a
                          > minimum of two original Lisas -- one for the club and one for me to
                          > sell on eBay -- then I'll personally reimburse you for the airplane
                          > ticket.
                          >
                          > Oh, and have fun digging through this:
                          > http://www.ci.logan.ut.us/envdiv/Landfill/landfill_main.htm

                          Hell, what have I gotten myself into?




                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                        • Jim Scheef
                          Joe, Well... if the soil is prefectly dry, then it might be possible. The machines might even be in good shape if they were not crushed. People are recovering
                          Message 12 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
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                            Joe,

                            Well... if the soil is prefectly dry, then it might be possible. The machines
                            might even be in good shape if they were not crushed.

                            People are recovering amazing things. A few years ago a group of well-funded
                            people dug a Lockeed P-38 (the airplane) out of a glacier on Greenland and,
                            after a large infusion of cash, made it fly again. So recovering some Lisas
                            from a landfill should be a piece of cake!

                            Jim

                            --- Joe Giliberti <starbase89@...> wrote:

                            > I remember reading that sometime in 1984 that Atari dumped several
                            > million E.T. 2600 cartidges in a desert landfill. I was recently read an
                            > article about a couple goys who went out and recovered several hundred
                            > of these cartridges and were still able to get them to work. Now, I'va
                            > also read that sometime in 1989, Apple dumped several thousand Lisa
                            > computer systems in a desert landfill. Do you think it would be possible
                            > to recover any of those in a similar fashion? Not that I'm interested in
                            > going to Utah, but out of curiousity.
                            >
                          • Evan
                            Right, what Jim said! Just don t tell the EPA or the police we sent you. They d get us for endangering the welfare of a minor. _____ From:
                            Message 13 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
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                              Right, what Jim said!  Just don't tell the EPA or the police we sent you.  They'd get us for endangering the welfare of a minor.


                              From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Scheef
                              Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:31 PM
                              To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Lisa landfill

                              Joe,

                              Well... if the soil is prefectly dry, then it might be possible. The machines
                              might even be in good shape if they were not crushed.

                              People are recovering amazing things. A few years ago a group of well-funded
                              people dug a Lockeed P-38 (the airplane) out of a glacier on Greenland and,
                              after a large infusion of cash, made it fly again. So recovering some Lisas
                              from a landfill should be a piece of cake!

                              Jim

                              --- Joe Giliberti <starbase89@...> wrote:

                              > I remember reading that sometime in 1984 that Atari dumped
                              several
                              > million E.T. 2600 cartidges in a desert landfill. I was
                              recently read an
                              > article about a couple goys who went out and recovered
                              several hundred
                              > of these cartridges and were still able to get them to
                              work. Now, I'va
                              > also read that sometime in 1989, Apple dumped several
                              thousand Lisa
                              > computer systems in a desert landfill. Do you think it
                              would be possible
                              > to recover any of those in a similar fashion? Not
                              that I'm interested in
                              > going to Utah, but out of curiousity.
                              >

                            • Ray Sills
                              And... there s another issue: permission. The landfill could be on private property... or government property, and the people who control it might take
                              Message 14 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
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                                And... there's another issue: permission. The landfill could be on
                                private property... or government property, and the people who
                                control it might take exception to someone wandering on to the
                                property, and digging up items that are buried.

                                Some discarded items are just left on the surface, like old airplanes
                                located in various mothball locations in the southwest. But, if
                                these items are in a true landfill, it might not be possible to open
                                the landfill without a court order or something like that. And the
                                EPA might also not want anyone digging, either.

                                Still, it's a shame that some neat stuff has been disposed of by
                                dumping. Apple Computer didn't have an Apple Store on the web back
                                then to enable them to sell the LISAs as "refurbished".

                                73 de Ray

                                On Jan 26, 2006, at 7:30 PM, Jim Scheef wrote:

                                > Joe,
                                >
                                > Well... if the soil is prefectly dry, then it might be possible.
                                > The machines
                                > might even be in good shape if they were not crushed.
                                >
                                > People are recovering amazing things. A few years ago a group of
                                > well-funded
                                > people dug a Lockeed P-38 (the airplane) out of a glacier on
                                > Greenland and,
                                > after a large infusion of cash, made it fly again. So recovering
                                > some Lisas
                                > from a landfill should be a piece of cake!
                                >
                                > Jim
                                >
                                > --- Joe Giliberti <starbase89@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >> I remember reading that sometime in 1984 that Atari dumped several
                                >> million E.T. 2600 cartidges in a desert landfill. I was recently
                                >> read an
                                >> article about a couple goys who went out and recovered several
                                >> hundred
                                >> of these cartridges and were still able to get them to work. Now,
                                >> I'va
                                >> also read that sometime in 1989, Apple dumped several thousand Lisa
                                >> computer systems in a desert landfill. Do you think it would be
                                >> possible
                                >> to recover any of those in a similar fashion? Not that I'm
                                >> interested in
                                >> going to Utah, but out of curiousity.
                                >>
                                >>
                              • Chris M
                                aw shoot, just go in the middle of the night! I m actually intrigued by the idea of driving out there. I went to a car dealership today (none of my bombs would
                                Message 15 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
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                                  aw shoot, just go in the middle of the night! I'm
                                  actually intrigued by the idea of driving out there. I
                                  went to a car dealership today (none of my bombs would
                                  make it out there). Think I'll hold off on a car until
                                  AFTER I find a house. Sleeping in a car is no way near
                                  as comfortable...
                                  Computer Factory had Lisa's back in the late 80's.
                                  About $200 in the box. I found out after the fact
                                  though. And they were right in Nassau county. I did
                                  take a trip up to Middletown New York for their big
                                  sale . No Lisa's there though :(.

                                  --- Ray Sills <raysills@...> wrote:

                                  > And... there's another issue: permission. The
                                  > landfill could be on
                                  > private property... or government property, and the
                                  > people who
                                  > control it might take exception to someone wandering
                                  > on to the
                                  > property, and digging up items that are buried.
                                  >
                                  > Some discarded items are just left on the surface,
                                  > like old airplanes
                                  > located in various mothball locations in the
                                  > southwest. But, if
                                  > these items are in a true landfill, it might not be
                                  > possible to open
                                  > the landfill without a court order or something like
                                  > that. And the
                                  > EPA might also not want anyone digging, either.
                                  >
                                  > Still, it's a shame that some neat stuff has been
                                  > disposed of by
                                  > dumping. Apple Computer didn't have an Apple Store
                                  > on the web back
                                  > then to enable them to sell the LISAs as
                                  > "refurbished".
                                  >
                                  > 73 de Ray
                                  >
                                  > On Jan 26, 2006, at 7:30 PM, Jim Scheef wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Joe,
                                  > >
                                  > > Well... if the soil is prefectly dry, then it
                                  > might be possible.
                                  > > The machines
                                  > > might even be in good shape if they were not
                                  > crushed.
                                  > >
                                  > > People are recovering amazing things. A few years
                                  > ago a group of
                                  > > well-funded
                                  > > people dug a Lockeed P-38 (the airplane) out of a
                                  > glacier on
                                  > > Greenland and,
                                  > > after a large infusion of cash, made it fly again.
                                  > So recovering
                                  > > some Lisas
                                  > > from a landfill should be a piece of cake!
                                  > >
                                  > > Jim
                                  > >
                                  > > --- Joe Giliberti <starbase89@...>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >> I remember reading that sometime in 1984 that
                                  > Atari dumped several
                                  > >> million E.T. 2600 cartidges in a desert landfill.
                                  > I was recently
                                  > >> read an
                                  > >> article about a couple goys who went out and
                                  > recovered several
                                  > >> hundred
                                  > >> of these cartridges and were still able to get
                                  > them to work. Now,
                                  > >> I'va
                                  > >> also read that sometime in 1989, Apple dumped
                                  > several thousand Lisa
                                  > >> computer systems in a desert landfill. Do you
                                  > think it would be
                                  > >> possible
                                  > >> to recover any of those in a similar fashion? Not
                                  > that I'm
                                  > >> interested in
                                  > >> going to Utah, but out of curiousity.
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  >


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                                • Richard A. Cini
                                  It was a tax issue for Apple. IIRC, they did this at the EOL of the Lisa line. They couldn t sell them and they couldn t take the write-off -- remembering back
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
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                                    It was a tax issue for Apple. IIRC, they did this at the EOL of the Lisa
                                    line. They couldn't sell them and they couldn't take the write-off --
                                    remembering back to accounting, you can write-down inventory to its fair
                                    market value (zero in this case), but of course you take a charge to
                                    earnings for that amount.

                                    There's a loophole however in that if you destroy them, you can take the
                                    write-off with no hit to earnings, although I don't know the finer points of
                                    that tax treatment. I remember reading that they brought them to the
                                    landfill and ran them over with bulldozers.



                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                    [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sills
                                    Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:59 PM
                                    To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Lisa landfill

                                    And... there's another issue: permission. The landfill could be on
                                    private property... or government property, and the people who
                                    control it might take exception to someone wandering on to the
                                    property, and digging up items that are buried.

                                    Some discarded items are just left on the surface, like old airplanes
                                    located in various mothball locations in the southwest. But, if
                                    these items are in a true landfill, it might not be possible to open
                                    the landfill without a court order or something like that. And the
                                    EPA might also not want anyone digging, either.

                                    Still, it's a shame that some neat stuff has been disposed of by
                                    dumping. Apple Computer didn't have an Apple Store on the web back
                                    then to enable them to sell the LISAs as "refurbished".

                                    73 de Ray

                                    On Jan 26, 2006, at 7:30 PM, Jim Scheef wrote:

                                    > Joe,
                                    >
                                    > Well... if the soil is prefectly dry, then it might be possible.
                                    > The machines
                                    > might even be in good shape if they were not crushed.
                                    >
                                    > People are recovering amazing things. A few years ago a group of
                                    > well-funded
                                    > people dug a Lockeed P-38 (the airplane) out of a glacier on
                                    > Greenland and,
                                    > after a large infusion of cash, made it fly again. So recovering
                                    > some Lisas
                                    > from a landfill should be a piece of cake!
                                    >
                                    > Jim
                                    >
                                    > --- Joe Giliberti <starbase89@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >> I remember reading that sometime in 1984 that Atari dumped several
                                    >> million E.T. 2600 cartidges in a desert landfill. I was recently
                                    >> read an
                                    >> article about a couple goys who went out and recovered several
                                    >> hundred
                                    >> of these cartridges and were still able to get them to work. Now,
                                    >> I'va
                                    >> also read that sometime in 1989, Apple dumped several thousand Lisa
                                    >> computer systems in a desert landfill. Do you think it would be
                                    >> possible
                                    >> to recover any of those in a similar fashion? Not that I'm
                                    >> interested in
                                    >> going to Utah, but out of curiousity.
                                    >>
                                    >>



                                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  • Chris M
                                    just curious why they would have gone to the trouble of running them over with bulldozers. Would not dumping them several states away be enough to constitute
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
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                                      just curious why they would have gone to the trouble
                                      of running them over with bulldozers. Would not
                                      dumping them several states away be enough to
                                      constitute destruction? Did the bean counters worry
                                      someone would drive out there and retrieve them?
                                      --- midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                      <rcini@...> wrote:
                                      > It was a tax issue for Apple. IIRC, they did this at
                                      the EOL of the Lisa
                                      > line. They couldn't sell them and they couldn't take
                                      the write-off --
                                      > remembering back to accounting, you can write-down
                                      inventory to its fair
                                      > market value (zero in this case), but of course you
                                      take a charge to
                                      > earnings for that amount.
                                      >
                                      > There's a loophole however in that if you destroy
                                      them, you can take the
                                      > write-off with no hit to earnings, although I don't
                                      know the finer points of
                                      > that tax treatment. I remember reading that they
                                      brought them to the
                                      > landfill and ran them over with bulldozers.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                      > From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                      > [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                      Of Ray Sills
                                      > Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:59 PM
                                      > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Lisa landfill
                                      >
                                      > And... there's another issue: permission. The
                                      landfill could be on
                                      > private property... or government property, and the
                                      people who
                                      > control it might take exception to someone wandering
                                      on to the
                                      > property, and digging up items that are buried.
                                      >
                                      > Some discarded items are just left on the surface,
                                      like old airplanes
                                      > located in various mothball locations in the
                                      southwest. But, if
                                      > these items are in a true landfill, it might not be
                                      possible to open
                                      > the landfill without a court order or something like
                                      that. And the
                                      > EPA might also not want anyone digging, either.
                                      >
                                      > Still, it's a shame that some neat stuff has been
                                      disposed of by
                                      > dumping. Apple Computer didn't have an Apple Store
                                      on the web back
                                      > then to enable them to sell the LISAs as
                                      "refurbished".
                                      >
                                      > 73 de Ray
                                      >
                                      > On Jan 26, 2006, at 7:30 PM, Jim Scheef wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > Joe,
                                      > >
                                      > > Well... if the soil is prefectly dry, then it
                                      might be possible.
                                      > > The machines
                                      > > might even be in good shape if they were not
                                      crushed.
                                      > >
                                      > > People are recovering amazing things. A few years
                                      ago a group of
                                      > > well-funded
                                      > > people dug a Lockeed P-38 (the airplane) out of a
                                      glacier on
                                      > > Greenland and,
                                      > > after a large infusion of cash, made it fly again.
                                      So recovering
                                      > > some Lisas
                                      > > from a landfill should be a piece of cake!
                                      > >
                                      > > Jim
                                      > >
                                      > > --- Joe Giliberti <starbase89@...>
                                      wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >> I remember reading that sometime in 1984 that
                                      Atari dumped several
                                      > >> million E.T. 2600 cartidges in a desert landfill.
                                      I was recently
                                      > >> read an
                                      > >> article about a couple goys who went out and
                                      recovered several
                                      > >> hundred
                                      > >> of these cartridges and were still able to get
                                      them to work. Now,
                                      > >> I'va
                                      > >> also read that sometime in 1989, Apple dumped
                                      several thousand Lisa
                                      > >> computer systems in a desert landfill. Do you
                                      think it would be
                                      > >> possible
                                      > >> to recover any of those in a similar fashion? Not
                                      that I'm
                                      > >> interested in
                                      > >> going to Utah, but out of curiousity.
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >


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                                    • Richard A. Cini
                                      Actually, yes. There s something in the tax code that specifies that they have to be damaged beyond serviceability. ... From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Actually, yes. There's something in the tax code that specifies that they
                                        have to be damaged beyond serviceability.

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                        [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris M
                                        Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 9:40 PM
                                        To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Lisa landfill

                                        just curious why they would have gone to the trouble
                                        of running them over with bulldozers. Would not
                                        dumping them several states away be enough to
                                        constitute destruction? Did the bean counters worry
                                        someone would drive out there and retrieve them?
                                        --- midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                        <rcini@...> wrote:
                                        > It was a tax issue for Apple. IIRC, they did this at
                                        the EOL of the Lisa
                                        > line. They couldn't sell them and they couldn't take
                                        the write-off --
                                        > remembering back to accounting, you can write-down
                                        inventory to its fair
                                        > market value (zero in this case), but of course you
                                        take a charge to
                                        > earnings for that amount.
                                        >
                                        > There's a loophole however in that if you destroy
                                        them, you can take the
                                        > write-off with no hit to earnings, although I don't
                                        know the finer points of
                                        > that tax treatment. I remember reading that they
                                        brought them to the
                                        > landfill and ran them over with bulldozers.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                        > From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                        > [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                        Of Ray Sills
                                        > Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:59 PM
                                        > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Lisa landfill
                                        >
                                        > And... there's another issue: permission. The
                                        landfill could be on
                                        > private property... or government property, and the
                                        people who
                                        > control it might take exception to someone wandering
                                        on to the
                                        > property, and digging up items that are buried.
                                        >
                                        > Some discarded items are just left on the surface,
                                        like old airplanes
                                        > located in various mothball locations in the
                                        southwest. But, if
                                        > these items are in a true landfill, it might not be
                                        possible to open
                                        > the landfill without a court order or something like
                                        that. And the
                                        > EPA might also not want anyone digging, either.
                                        >
                                        > Still, it's a shame that some neat stuff has been
                                        disposed of by
                                        > dumping. Apple Computer didn't have an Apple Store
                                        on the web back
                                        > then to enable them to sell the LISAs as
                                        "refurbished".
                                        >
                                        > 73 de Ray
                                        >
                                        > On Jan 26, 2006, at 7:30 PM, Jim Scheef wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > Joe,
                                        > >
                                        > > Well... if the soil is prefectly dry, then it
                                        might be possible.
                                        > > The machines
                                        > > might even be in good shape if they were not
                                        crushed.
                                        > >
                                        > > People are recovering amazing things. A few years
                                        ago a group of
                                        > > well-funded
                                        > > people dug a Lockeed P-38 (the airplane) out of a
                                        glacier on
                                        > > Greenland and,
                                        > > after a large infusion of cash, made it fly again.
                                        So recovering
                                        > > some Lisas
                                        > > from a landfill should be a piece of cake!
                                        > >
                                        > > Jim
                                        > >
                                        > > --- Joe Giliberti <starbase89@...>
                                        wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >> I remember reading that sometime in 1984 that
                                        Atari dumped several
                                        > >> million E.T. 2600 cartidges in a desert landfill.
                                        I was recently
                                        > >> read an
                                        > >> article about a couple goys who went out and
                                        recovered several
                                        > >> hundred
                                        > >> of these cartridges and were still able to get
                                        them to work. Now,
                                        > >> I'va
                                        > >> also read that sometime in 1989, Apple dumped
                                        several thousand Lisa
                                        > >> computer systems in a desert landfill. Do you
                                        think it would be
                                        > >> possible
                                        > >> to recover any of those in a similar fashion? Not
                                        that I'm
                                        > >> interested in
                                        > >> going to Utah, but out of curiousity.
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >


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                                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      • Chris M
                                        regardless, how would you go about pinpointing just where they were buried (were they likely buried?). That place likely takes up hundreds of acres, if not
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          regardless, how would you go about pinpointing just
                                          where they were buried (were they likely buried?).
                                          That place likely takes up hundreds of acres, if not
                                          thousands. What else groovy was landfilled? Was it
                                          just Atari carts? What about puters?
                                          --- casting@yahoogroups.com <lathe9x20@...>
                                          wrote:
                                          > Hello, Mike
                                          >
                                          > Brass can be blackened chemically, and aluminum can
                                          be anodized black.
                                          > Check Caswell Plating http://www.caswellplating.com
                                          for supplies for
                                          > the AL. There are pictures of black gun parts
                                          there. Don't even try
                                          > to use the "instant blue for aluminum" from the gun
                                          dept of WalMart.
                                          > It doesn't last.
                                          >
                                          > For brass finishes try
                                          http://www.sculptnouveau.com/, or the science
                                          > company at
                                          http://www.coscosci.com/patinas/index.htm.
                                          >
                                          > If it were me, I'd look very seriously at paints
                                          applied with an
                                          > inexpensive air brush. Epoxy paint is damn tough!
                                          >
                                          > 'hope this helps
                                          >
                                          > JohnL
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > The
                                          >
                                          > --- In casting@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <ezme@r...>
                                          wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > I am using brass and aluminum to fabricate scale
                                          models. I need to
                                          > > blacken the metals rather than paint them. I know
                                          there was a liquid
                                          > > by the name of Ebonol or Ebanol, it seems no
                                          longer available. I have
                                          > > checked on a substitute made by JAX (Supplied in
                                          the Grobet USA
                                          > > catalog) but Can$90.00 per gal it is rather
                                          expensive. Is there a way
                                          > > to achieve a really soft black finish without the
                                          use of expensive
                                          > > chemicals? The models in question will have some
                                          soft soldered joins
                                          > > so it won't be safe to apply any amount of heat.
                                          > >
                                          > > Mike
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >


                                          __________________________________________________
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                                        • Degnan
                                          I know that nearby where I live there are supposedly bulldozed under Commodore P500 s. I have called QVC (the home shopping tv station) who now occupies the
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            I know that nearby where I live there are supposedly "bulldozed under"
                                            Commodore P500's. I have called QVC (the home shopping tv station)
                                            who now occupies the property once owned by Commodore in West Chester,
                                            PA. As you would expect they don't know much...but if anyone would
                                            like to do an expedition on the grounds of the office complex, let
                                            me know. I was told that they buried them "out back" but that's
                                            about all anyone knows. Would I run around with a metal detector
                                            and a shovel; yes I would! Anyone up for it? They could be buried
                                            under a parking lot by now...might make a fun little video. Imagine
                                            people digging for computers behind the QVC studio parking lot.

                                            Taking the video concept another step..has anyone seen the "Best
                                            In Show" movie about dog show particpants? Are we not the real-life
                                            equivalent of that movie, being so involved with such a specialized
                                            field as vintage computers to the point of doing a festival? Our
                                            group has some unique personalities, yes? I for one admit that I
                                            take this whole thing a little too far (ask my wife), but I don't
                                            care, if you're going to pick a hobby might as well dive in!

                                            I hope that this event is recorded for posterity. I will bring a
                                            video camera, maybe I will have time to do some interviews at the
                                            show.

                                            I posted my VCF exhibit on the VCF 3 site, I have not seen it yet,
                                            but I assume it's in pending status waiting for the site admin to
                                            approve and post to the public.

                                            Bill D

                                            At Thursday, 26 January 2006, you wrote:

                                            >regardless, how would you go about pinpointing just
                                            >where they were buried (were they likely buried?).
                                            >That place likely takes up hundreds of acres, if not
                                            >thousands. What else groovy was landfilled? Was it
                                            >just Atari carts? What about puters?
                                            >--- casting@yahoogroups.com <lathe9x20@...>
                                            >wrote:
                                            >> Hello, Mike
                                            >>
                                            >> Brass can be blackened chemically, and aluminum can
                                            >be anodized black.
                                            >> Check Caswell Plating http://www.caswellplating.com
                                            >for supplies for
                                            >> the AL. There are pictures of black gun parts
                                            >there. Don't even try
                                            >> to use the "instant blue for aluminum" from the gun
                                            >dept of WalMart.
                                            >> It doesn't last.
                                            >>
                                            >> For brass finishes try
                                            >http://www.sculptnouveau.com/, or the science
                                            >> company at
                                            >http://www.coscosci.com/patinas/index.htm.
                                            >>
                                            >> If it were me, I'd look very seriously at paints
                                            >applied with an
                                            >> inexpensive air brush. Epoxy paint is damn tough!
                                            >>
                                            >> 'hope this helps
                                            >>
                                            >> JohnL
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >> The
                                            >>
                                            >> --- In casting@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <ezme@r...>
                                            >wrote:
                                            >> >
                                            >> > I am using brass and aluminum to fabricate scale
                                            >models. I need to
                                            >> > blacken the metals rather than paint them. I know
                                            >there was a liquid
                                            >> > by the name of Ebonol or Ebanol, it seems no
                                            >longer available. I have
                                            >> > checked on a substitute made by JAX (Supplied in
                                            >the Grobet USA
                                            >> > catalog) but Can$90.00 per gal it is rather
                                            >expensive. Is there a way
                                            >> > to achieve a really soft black finish without the
                                            >use of expensive
                                            >> > chemicals? The models in question will have some
                                            >soft soldered joins
                                            >> > so it won't be safe to apply any amount of heat.
                                            >> >
                                            >> > Mike
                                            >> >
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >
                                            >__________________________________________________
                                            >Do You Yahoo!?
                                            >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                            >http://mail.yahoo.com
                                            >
                                            >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >



                                            -- E N D --
                                          • Evan
                                            Strange! I just logged in to the VCF admin site (Sellam hooked me up) and there were four exhibits waiting for approval. It s supposed to send me an email
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Jan 26, 2006
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Strange! I just logged in to the VCF admin site (Sellam hooked me up) and
                                              there were four exhibits waiting for approval. It's supposed to send me an
                                              email each time someone registers. Oh well.

                                              The exhibits are all approved now -- check back there Bill.

                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                              [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Degnan
                                              Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 12:10 AM
                                              To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] re:Lisa landfill

                                              I know that nearby where I live there are supposedly "bulldozed under"
                                              Commodore P500's. I have called QVC (the home shopping tv station) who now
                                              occupies the property once owned by Commodore in West Chester, PA. As you
                                              would expect they don't know much...but if anyone would like to do an
                                              expedition on the grounds of the office complex, let me know. I was told
                                              that they buried them "out back" but that's about all anyone knows. Would I
                                              run around with a metal detector and a shovel; yes I would! Anyone up for
                                              it? They could be buried under a parking lot by now...might make a fun
                                              little video. Imagine people digging for computers behind the QVC studio
                                              parking lot.

                                              Taking the video concept another step..has anyone seen the "Best In Show"
                                              movie about dog show particpants? Are we not the real-life equivalent of
                                              that movie, being so involved with such a specialized field as vintage
                                              computers to the point of doing a festival? Our group has some unique
                                              personalities, yes? I for one admit that I take this whole thing a little
                                              too far (ask my wife), but I don't care, if you're going to pick a hobby
                                              might as well dive in!

                                              I hope that this event is recorded for posterity. I will bring a video
                                              camera, maybe I will have time to do some interviews at the show.

                                              I posted my VCF exhibit on the VCF 3 site, I have not seen it yet, but I
                                              assume it's in pending status waiting for the site admin to approve and post
                                              to the public.

                                              Bill D

                                              At Thursday, 26 January 2006, you wrote:

                                              >regardless, how would you go about pinpointing just where they were
                                              >buried (were they likely buried?).
                                              >That place likely takes up hundreds of acres, if not thousands. What
                                              >else groovy was landfilled? Was it just Atari carts? What about puters?
                                              >--- casting@yahoogroups.com <lathe9x20@...>
                                              >wrote:
                                              >> Hello, Mike
                                              >>
                                              >> Brass can be blackened chemically, and aluminum can
                                              >be anodized black.
                                              >> Check Caswell Plating http://www.caswellplating.com
                                              >for supplies for
                                              >> the AL. There are pictures of black gun parts
                                              >there. Don't even try
                                              >> to use the "instant blue for aluminum" from the gun
                                              >dept of WalMart.
                                              >> It doesn't last.
                                              >>
                                              >> For brass finishes try
                                              >http://www.sculptnouveau.com/, or the science
                                              >> company at
                                              >http://www.coscosci.com/patinas/index.htm.
                                              >>
                                              >> If it were me, I'd look very seriously at paints
                                              >applied with an
                                              >> inexpensive air brush. Epoxy paint is damn tough!
                                              >>
                                              >> 'hope this helps
                                              >>
                                              >> JohnL
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> The
                                              >>
                                              >> --- In casting@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <ezme@r...>
                                              >wrote:
                                              >> >
                                              >> > I am using brass and aluminum to fabricate scale
                                              >models. I need to
                                              >> > blacken the metals rather than paint them. I know
                                              >there was a liquid
                                              >> > by the name of Ebonol or Ebanol, it seems no
                                              >longer available. I have
                                              >> > checked on a substitute made by JAX (Supplied in
                                              >the Grobet USA
                                              >> > catalog) but Can$90.00 per gal it is rather
                                              >expensive. Is there a way
                                              >> > to achieve a really soft black finish without the
                                              >use of expensive
                                              >> > chemicals? The models in question will have some
                                              >soft soldered joins
                                              >> > so it won't be safe to apply any amount of heat.
                                              >> >
                                              >> > Mike
                                              >> >
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >
                                              >__________________________________________________
                                              >Do You Yahoo!?
                                              >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                              >http://mail.yahoo.com
                                              >
                                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >



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