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Re: Anyone in Philly / Delaware / NJ with Amiga 3000 battery-removal experience?

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  • Jeremy
    ... Yep. I live in Philly, and mostly do my real work as a Microsoft MVP for Active Directory / Group Policy. I read this list every day, and frequent lots
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 7, 2011
      --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Evan Koblentz <evan@...> wrote:
      > Archive search shows that Jeremy joined our list on Aug. 30, 2005, and he's posted a half-dozen times since then.

      Yep. I live in Philly, and mostly do my "real work" as a Microsoft MVP for Active Directory / Group Policy.

      I read this list every day, and frequent lots of podcasts, mostly Apple //.

      I own a killer Apple //e system (8Mhz zip chip, Applecat, solid state compactflash disk, and more) and four Amigas (two 1200s and two A3000s). My goal is to get Wired/Wireless ethernet between on of the A1200s and the A3000 and the Apple //.

      I used to run (moderate) Comp.Sys.Amiga.Emulations from 1995 - 1997 or thereabouts and also created the Winterthur museum's touch-screen Amiga-based computers which ran in a permanent exhibit from 1997 - 2001. (It was first done in Amigavision, then later again in Scala, for which I still have the original software and dongles.)

      My prized possession is a signed A1200 from Dave Haynie and other commodore engineers as seen here: http://screencast.com/t/Ap0eJWr9

      Anyway.. that's about me and my collection.

      So... any takers for the Wawa sandwich to replace the two A3000 batteries? :-)

      PS: I checked both of my A1200s' trap doors.

      a. The "signed amiga" has a 68030 accelerator + RAM in the trap door. No battery on that accelerator. and no discernible battery in the trapdoor.

      b. The second amiga 1200, I just took a look and took out what was in its trapdoor. I don't think this is an accelerator.. maybe it is.. I really cannot remember that we added these to these A1200s.. The chip says MC68881, which I thought was a co-processor, and not an accelerator. Any thoughts? Pix at http://screencast.com/t/x8mkZqUp. Oh, an no battery. :-)

      So the A1200s batteries are internal to the device.
    • Dave McGuire
      ... The 68881 is a floating-point coprocessor. Incidentally, if you re doing FP-intensive tasks, you can plug a 68882 in its place for about a 15% speedup.
      Message 2 of 15 , Jun 7, 2011
        On 6/7/11 10:47 AM, Jeremy wrote:
        > b. The second amiga 1200, I just took a look and took out what was in
        > its trapdoor. I don't think this is an accelerator.. maybe it is.. I
        > really cannot remember that we added these to these A1200s.. The
        > chip says MC68881, which I thought was a co-processor, and not an
        > accelerator. Any thoughts?

        The 68881 is a floating-point coprocessor.

        Incidentally, if you're doing FP-intensive tasks, you can plug a
        68882 in its place for about a 15% speedup. It's pin- and
        instruction-compatible, just faster. I did this on a lot of 68020 Suns
        that I was using for number crunching twenty years ago.

        -Dave

        --
        Dave McGuire
        Port Charlotte, FL
      • B. Degnan
        I am busy so I will need some lead time to set up, but I do have 5 Amigas on the table to be worked upon, by coincidence. I have a handful of batteries to
        Message 3 of 15 , Jun 7, 2011
          I am busy so I will need some lead time to set up, but I do have 5 Amigas
          on the table to be worked upon, by coincidence. I have a handful of
          batteries to install. I had been meaning to do this for a few years now,
          never go to it until now. Your timing is excellent. If you want to come
          to me in Landenberg, PA contact me directly. Rather than a sandwitch, I
          could use some overall Video Toaster set up help.


          Bill Degnan

          -------- Original Message --------
          > From: "Jeremy" <jeremym200@...>
          > Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 10:47 AM
          > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [midatlanticretro] Re: Anyone in Philly / Delaware / NJ with
          Amiga 3000 battery-removal experience?
          >
          > --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Evan Koblentz <evan@...> wrote:
          > > Archive search shows that Jeremy joined our list on Aug. 30, 2005, and
          he's posted a half-dozen times since then.
          >
          > Yep. I live in Philly, and mostly do my "real work" as a Microsoft MVP
          for Active Directory / Group Policy.
          >
          > I read this list every day, and frequent lots of podcasts, mostly Apple
          //.
          >
          > I own a killer Apple //e system (8Mhz zip chip, Applecat, solid state
          compactflash disk, and more) and four Amigas (two 1200s and two A3000s). My
          goal is to get Wired/Wireless ethernet between on of the A1200s and the
          A3000 and the Apple //.
          >
          > I used to run (moderate) Comp.Sys.Amiga.Emulations from 1995 - 1997 or
          thereabouts and also created the Winterthur museum's touch-screen
          Amiga-based computers which ran in a permanent exhibit from 1997 - 2001.
          (It was first done in Amigavision, then later again in Scala, for which I
          still have the original software and dongles.)
          >
          > My prized possession is a signed A1200 from Dave Haynie and other
          commodore engineers as seen here: http://screencast.com/t/Ap0eJWr9
          >
          > Anyway.. that's about me and my collection.
          >
          > So... any takers for the Wawa sandwich to replace the two A3000
          batteries? :-)
          >
          > PS: I checked both of my A1200s' trap doors.
          >
          > a. The "signed amiga" has a 68030 accelerator + RAM in the trap door. No
          battery on that accelerator. and no discernible battery in the trapdoor.
          >
          > b. The second amiga 1200, I just took a look and took out what was in its
          trapdoor. I don't think this is an accelerator.. maybe it is.. I really
          cannot remember that we added these to these A1200s.. The chip says
          MC68881, which I thought was a co-processor, and not an accelerator. Any
          thoughts? Pix at http://screencast.com/t/x8mkZqUp. Oh, an no battery. :-)
          >
          > So the A1200s batteries are internal to the device.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • brian_cirulnick
          ... Funny you should mention that, as I did that exact mod to my Sun 3/160 about a million years ago (when I was still running it). I wasn t doing any number
          Message 4 of 15 , Jun 7, 2011
            --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Dave McGuire <Mcguire@...> wrote:
            > Incidentally, if you're doing FP-intensive tasks, you can plug a
            > 68882 in its place for about a 15% speedup. It's pin- and
            > instruction-compatible, just faster. I did this on a lot of 68020 Suns
            > that I was using for number crunching twenty years ago.
            >
            ----------------

            Funny you should mention that, as I did that exact mod to my Sun 3/160 about a million years ago (when I was still running it). I wasn't doing any number crunching, but I just love to tinker with my toys.

            I really want to power that old Sun back up, I'm just afraid I'll blow every circuit in my house doing it. I'll wait for next winter and get the free heating of the house every time I login.

            BTW: I'm looking for a Sun 3/80 (pizza box), so I can run all my Sun3 software without making my PSE&G meter spin like a wheel of fortune.
          • Dave McGuire
            ... Neat! It makes a very noticeable different for floating-point stuff. ... Wow, you and I have very different ideas of big, circuit-blowing machine . ;)
            Message 5 of 15 , Jun 7, 2011
              On 6/7/11 2:24 PM, brian_cirulnick wrote:
              >> Incidentally, if you're doing FP-intensive tasks, you can plug a
              >> 68882 in its place for about a 15% speedup. It's pin- and
              >> instruction-compatible, just faster. I did this on a lot of 68020
              >> Suns that I was using for number crunching twenty years ago.
              >
              > Funny you should mention that, as I did that exact mod to my Sun
              > 3/160 about a million years ago (when I was still running it). I
              > wasn't doing any number crunching, but I just love to tinker with my
              > toys.

              Neat! It makes a very noticeable different for floating-point stuff.

              > I really want to power that old Sun back up, I'm just afraid I'll
              > blow every circuit in my house doing it. I'll wait for next winter
              > and get the free heating of the house every time I login.

              Wow, you and I have very different ideas of "big, circuit-blowing
              machine". ;)

              http://www.neurotica.com/albums/pdp1170/tn/DSCN1171.JPG.html
              http://www.neurotica.com/albums/cray/tn/j90.jpg.html

              > BTW: I'm looking for a Sun 3/80 (pizza box), so I can run all my Sun3
              > software without making my PSE&G meter spin like a wheel of fortune.

              I believe I have at least a couple 3/80s in storage. I am preparing
              to move (just closed on the new building on Friday!), contact me after
              I'm settled and I'll see if I can find a functional one. I'll keep the
              list posted as to my progress.

              Ahh, PSE&G...memories! I grew up in NJ.

              -Dave

              --
              Dave McGuire
              Port Charlotte, FL
            • telmnstr@757.org
              ... Have you been able to fix A3000s with the battery juice all wicked into the PCBs? Got a friends to fix and I was thinking some sort of guide to where all
              Message 6 of 15 , Jun 7, 2011
                > I am busy so I will need some lead time to set up, but I do have 5 Amigas
                > on the table to be worked upon, by coincidence. I have a handful of
                > batteries to install. I had been meaning to do this for a few years now,
                > never go to it until now. Your timing is excellent. If you want to come
                > to me in Landenberg, PA contact me directly. Rather than a sandwitch, I
                > could use some overall Video Toaster set up help.

                Have you been able to fix A3000s with the battery juice all wicked into
                the PCBs?

                Got a friends to fix and I was thinking some sort of guide to where all of
                the parts should be connected to would be useful.
              • murph
                ... I ll bet the dollar value on free is higher than you might be letting on. ... -- Team Amiga New Jersey - The less that I speak, the smarter I sound.
                Message 7 of 15 , Jun 7, 2011
                  On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 2:24 PM, brian_cirulnick <techrat@...> wrote:

                  I really want to power that old Sun back up, I'm just afraid I'll blow every circuit in my house doing it. I'll wait for next winter and get the free heating of the house every time I login.

                  I'll bet the dollar value on "free" is higher than you might be letting on. :)


                  --
                  Team Amiga  New Jersey - The less that I speak, the smarter I sound.



                • Dave McGuire
                  ... Computers convert electricity into heat with 100% efficiency. Unless one has a different form of heat (gas, oil, etc) and knows it to be more
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jun 7, 2011
                    On 6/7/11 3:20 PM, murph wrote:
                    > I really want to power that old Sun back up, I'm just afraid I'll
                    > blow every circuit in my house doing it. I'll wait for next winter
                    > and get the free heating of the house every time I login.
                    >
                    > I'll bet the dollar value on "free" is higher than you might be letting
                    > on. :)

                    Computers convert electricity into heat with 100% efficiency. Unless
                    one has a different form of heat (gas, oil, etc) and knows it to be more
                    cost-effective (dollar -> BTU) it's a viable option. Which is more
                    interesting to sit in front of while it's running, a furnace or a
                    vintage computer? ;)

                    -Dave

                    --
                    Dave McGuire
                    Port Charlotte, FL
                  • B Degnan
                    ... A while back I did some research and found that although the battery acid is bad, but can be cleaned out. From a support standpoint I d rather have a
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jun 7, 2011
                      At 02:59 PM 6/7/2011, you wrote:
                      > > I am busy so I will need some lead time to set up, but I do have 5 Amigas
                      > > on the table to be worked upon, by coincidence. I have a handful of
                      > > batteries to install. I had been meaning to do this for a few years now,
                      > > never go to it until now. Your timing is excellent. If you want to come
                      > > to me in Landenberg, PA contact me directly. Rather than a sandwitch, I
                      > > could use some overall Video Toaster set up help.
                      >
                      >Have you been able to fix A3000s with the battery juice all wicked into
                      >the PCBs?
                      >
                      >Got a friends to fix and I was thinking some sort of guide to where all of
                      >the parts should be connected to would be useful.
                      >

                      A while back I did some research and found that although the battery
                      acid is bad, but can be cleaned out. From a support standpoint I'd
                      rather have a little battery acid to clean than rodent urine any day.

                      Use baking soda and water, it's ok to get the board wet but you want
                      to clear everything out. Dry and test. It's reasonable to expect
                      success especially for the not-so-bad boards. Most of my experience
                      with battery acid-laden stuff is old hand-held video games and watches.

                      All Apple GS's should have their batteries replaced too. I have been
                      meaning to and now I am going to actually seek out and replace these
                      old batteries in the various systems I have that need them.
                    • Dan Roganti
                      ... yes, I agree too. I do this all the time - with all sorts of vintage circuit boards -- computer, arcade, pinball, etc.. A few steps I would include
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jun 7, 2011
                        On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 10:13 PM, B Degnan <billdeg@...> wrote:

                        >
                        >And don't laugh at this but if the board I'm working on is particularly
                        >gross and gunky, I'll wash it in the dishwasher with a bit of detergent
                        >in "air dry" mode.    Same with the cable harnesses.
                        >
                        >Once the wash cycle is done I'll pull the board out, rinse it with
                        >distilled water and then air dry.   Things look beautiful and factory
                        >fresh when you're done.
                        >
                        >If you do use the dishwasher check to ensure that there aren't stickers
                        >that you'd like to preserve.


                        I agree, boards can survive a little soap and water.  That's actually
                        preferred to any chemicals if you're dealing with dirt


                        yes, I agree too.
                        I do this all the time - with all sorts of vintage circuit boards -- computer, arcade, pinball, etc..
                        A few steps I would include >before< washing is this,
                         - Remove the corrosion from the pcb traces and tin the copper traces again.
                         ---- use either a hobby xacto knife to clean the individual traces(#10 blade works great)
                         ---- or a dremel for the severe corrosion on ground planes and such.

                         - Repair any copper traces as needed - you should check continuity on every trace thats been affected.
                         ---- some traces can suffer a break from the corrosion
                         ---- usually a drop of solder can fix this or add a piece of stripped bellcore wire.

                         - Repair any corroded Vias
                         ---- these can fail to make connection between the top and bottom of the pcb.
                         ---- you might have to clean out the Via hole first since it might be clogged with corrosion too.

                         - Brush on the vinegar and rinse off with [at least 91%] isopropyl alcohol, then wash.
                         ---- I just use a clean toothbrush for this to get in small areas - and a stiff paint brush for tight areas.
                         ---- I use either a heat lamp or just sit it out in the sun to quickly evaporate any water drops
                         ---- sometimes I use an air compressor to speed up the process.


                        =Dan






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