Re: VCF exhibits / vendors
- B Degnan <billdeg@...> wrote:
>It ALREADY has, to the extent that "the hobby" isn't some thing out there; it's a representation of things that people do with old computers. Different people of different ages, different things. Also different venues - the "kids" haven't taken over "our" venues, yet.
> It is going to happen, vintage computing is going to split some time
> soon into two generations. The 16/32 bit GUI era stuff will have a
> separate place, just not sure how it will work.
I had someone contact me recently, about building some S-100 stuff for the first time. They bought all kind of, er, stuff, and had plans to make it work. The plan? to run DR-DOS! Because they "grew up" with MS-DOS but found Windows and Microsoft to be just big behemoths compared to the "simple" DR-DOS operating systems. And S-100 was a simpler hardware architecture to learn on than a Windows PC.
Run CP/M? "that's just something else I'd have to learn".
So there it is. The next generation. (Well, next relative to me, or Bill.)
> If we don't allow for some sort of evolution, eventuallyWell, yeaaah.... But my counter-argument is that 1970's computing is becoming (has become) "lost arts" in terms of experience, and "lost systems" in terms of having running hardware around. So there's still good reason to show the old iron at VCF's. There weren't enough S-100 systems at VCF-E this year, in my opinion. I may bring a stack of THEM next year, certainly not the AT&T box or IBM PCs.
> we'll end up with fewer working systems to exhibit.
And I'll state, without proof, that much computing stuff built in the 1970's seems to survive better than production stuff built in the 80's and 90's. I'll give an example in a minute.
> To Mike's commentHey, f'instance. I bought an AT&T 386 system this year. Thought the AT&T crowd would be interested. Well, not so much - it wasn't the old 8088 system, it wasn't the fancier Unix/Xenix system. Kind of in between. A few people noted it.
> It's hard to justify (for me) classifying Amigas and Mac II's as OK
> and not also early Windows (386 at least) boxes, but clearly these
> are all next gen systems that have not been fully "vintage-ified"
> yet. It's a conversation we have every so often, and no one person
> is going to win their argument fully. Me? I welcome the opinions.
But Mac II's - Bill, those Mac systems are DISINTEGRATING! I know this first-hand, the 80's Mac surface-mount stuff has physical problems with solder rot! So I didn't mind seeing a Mac II this year, and an(other) exhibit of 68K Mac tech from the 80's would be kinda neat, I think. (Anyone out there really object to that?)
> I do not wish to have a *what is vintage* debate, what year,Right, Bill, I agree. But there's really all kinds of genres now in vintage computing, it's not all 8-bit. Ask David Gesswein - he's *12 bit*! THere's a range of interests by "bits", and all classes of processor have been shown at VCF's.
> etc. 16/32 bit computing is historic, it's just a question of how
> does one fit it into our "8-bit centric is the heart of vintage
> computing" world view. I have a feeling it will be a natural
> progression, a little grumbling, and then life moves on.
- No luck, sorry.From: B Degnan <billdeg@...>Sender: firstname.lastname@example.orgDate: Sun, 05 Jun 2011 12:15:54 -0400To: <email@example.com>ReplyTo: firstname.lastname@example.orgSubject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Early Pdp 11 assembly training course?Great. Fyi they're practically free on half.com etc
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.Evan Koblentz <evan@...> wrote:>>> The Minicomputer in the Laboratory by James W Cooper 1977>>> Minicomputer Systems: Organisation and Programming (PDP-11) by Richard Eckhouse 1975>>> Machine and Assembly Language Programming of the PDP-11 by Arthur Gill 1978We may have some of these in the MARCH library. Luckily someone decided to organize our books by decade and then by title. :) Will check today.
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