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Re: [midatlanticretro] Found some Core Memory

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  • Dave McGuire
    ... I think he s talking about using the raw core plane, so at that level, there s effectively no difference. ... FRAM!! 8-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port
    Message 1 of 12 , Jun 2, 2011
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      On 6/2/11 6:09 AM, B Degnan wrote:
      > Would not DEC or Nova core be most compatible to what you're doing?

      I think he's talking about using the raw core plane, so at that
      level, there's effectively no difference.

      > ...but for that matter wouldn't be best at first to use a modern RAM so
      > that you can have something reliable for testing of the system in
      > general? Then later replace with a core memory ?

      FRAM!! 8-)

      -Dave

      --
      Dave McGuire
      Port Charlotte, FL
    • Dan Roganti
      ... when I took a closer look, it does appear to be a raw core plane - is that PG-rated ;) As there s no support logic on there that you typically see in a
      Message 2 of 12 , Jun 2, 2011
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        On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Dave McGuire <Mcguire@...> wrote:
        On 6/2/11 6:09 AM, B Degnan wrote:
        > Would not DEC or Nova core be most compatible to what you're doing?

          I think he's talking about using the raw core plane, so at that
        level, there's effectively no difference.

        when I took a closer look, it does appear to be a raw core plane - is that PG-rated ;)
        As there's no support logic on there that you typically see in a memory controller circuit. Other than what appears to be some kind of buffer or level translator chips sparsely located on the edges of the core and routed to the backplane card edge connectors.

        This is a common approach, as even the old systems I worked on used a stand alone memory controller card and individual cards with core memory and the bare essentials.



        > ...but for that matter wouldn't be best at first to use a modern RAM so
        > that you can have something reliable for testing of the system in
        > general? Then later replace with a core memory ?

          FRAM!! 8-)



         Gotta git me some FRAM !!

        =Dan

      • Dave McGuire
        ... They are probably (chips full of) selection diodes for the X/Y array. See DEC-8E-HR1C-D_8eMaint_Feb73.pdf pp.3-75 to 3/78 for a description of how that
        Message 3 of 12 , Jun 2, 2011
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          On 6/2/11 12:59 PM, Dan Roganti wrote:
          > when I took a closer look, it does appear to be a raw core plane - is
          > that PG-rated ;)
          > As there's no support logic on there that you typically see in a memory
          > controller circuit. Other than what appears to be some kind of buffer or
          > level translator chips sparsely located on the edges of the core and
          > routed to the backplane card edge connectors.

          They are probably (chips full of) selection diodes for the X/Y array.

          See DEC-8E-HR1C-D_8eMaint_Feb73.pdf pp.3-75 to 3/78 for a description
          of how that works, and a few pages before that for schematics. (only
          using PDP-8 as an example because it's well-documented)

          -Dave

          --
          Dave McGuire
          Port Charlotte, FL
        • Jim Scheef
          I would expect anything from IBM to say I B M on it somewhere. In those days, IBM made everything themselves, so another company name would indicate this is
          Message 4 of 12 , Jun 2, 2011
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            I would expect anything from IBM to say I B M on it somewhere. In those
            days, IBM made everything themselves, so another company name would
            indicate this is from somewhere else.

            Jim

            On 6/2/2011 1:42 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
            > On 6/2/11 12:59 PM, Dan Roganti wrote:
            > > when I took a closer look, it does appear to be a raw core plane - is
            > > that PG-rated ;)
            > > As there's no support logic on there that you typically see in a memory
            > > controller circuit. Other than what appears to be some kind of buffer or
            > > level translator chips sparsely located on the edges of the core and
            > > routed to the backplane card edge connectors.
            >
            > They are probably (chips full of) selection diodes for the X/Y array.
            >
            > See DEC-8E-HR1C-D_8eMaint_Feb73.pdf pp.3-75 to 3/78 for a description
            > of how that works, and a few pages before that for schematics. (only
            > using PDP-8 as an example because it's well-documented)
            >
            > -Dave
            >
            > --
            > Dave McGuire
            > Port Charlotte, FL
            >
            >
          • s100doctor
            ... The brand name on the core board is Fabri-Tec . They manufactured cord planes for a number of memory board manufacturers. YOu ve got the cores but not the
            Message 5 of 12 , Jun 2, 2011
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              , Dan Roganti <ragooman@...> wrote:
              >
              > I found some Core memory. It's from the same guy who has the mylar
              > papertape. He gave me 2 core memory cards. He mentioned that he remembers
              > this coming from an IBM system. The really cool thing about this is that it
              > assembled in a way where it folds up. I have some pics here. I'm hoping to
              > find out what system this is from.

              The brand name on the core board is "Fabri-Tec". They manufactured cord planes for a number of memory board manufacturers. YOu've got the cores but not the drivers and receivers. This board would plug into a card set with those electronics.

              I suggest you note the model number and look at all the "core memory board" pictures you can until you find a match for that model number. Then you'll have an idea of what "drove" these core planes.

              I don't advise trying to build analog core memory read/write electronics. Ask me privately about it if you want, I think a better "deal" would be to trade it for a complete core memory board set.

              Herb Johnson
            • Dave McGuire
              ... Hey, it s finicky and fiddly, but it can be done (and has been), and there are many design examples out there. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL
              Message 6 of 12 , Jun 2, 2011
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                On 6/2/11 7:54 PM, s100doctor wrote:
                > I don't advise trying to build analog core memory read/write
                > electronics. Ask me privately about it if you want, I think a better
                > "deal" would be to trade it for a complete core memory board set.

                Hey, it's finicky and fiddly, but it can be done (and has been), and
                there are many design examples out there.

                -Dave

                --
                Dave McGuire
                Port Charlotte, FL
              • Jeff Jonas
                ... But can they handle the temperate range as things heat up, and the density of the one being considered? The Arduino core project I saw recently is only 8 x
                Message 7 of 12 , Jun 5, 2011
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                  > > I don't advise trying to build
                  > > analog core memory read/write electronics ...

                  > Hey, it's finicky and fiddly, but it can be done (and has been),
                  > and there are many design examples out there.

                  But can they handle the temperate range as things heat up,
                  and the density of the one being considered?

                  The Arduino core project I saw recently
                  is only 8 x 8 and very sparsely populated.

                  Yes, today's DSPs can do things
                  that required dedicated hardware not long ago,
                  but the algorithms and reliability looks tricky.
                  If that's handled properly, I'd love to see the new ways!
                • Jeff Jonas
                  ... The core I salvaged from the IBM 1620 and IBM 1130 were merely green frames that stacked together. No IBM anywhere. Even back then, IBM outsourced SOME
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jun 5, 2011
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                    > I would expect anything from IBM to say I B M on it somewhere.

                    The core I salvaged from the IBM 1620 and IBM 1130
                    were merely green frames that stacked together.
                    No "IBM" anywhere.

                    Even back then, IBM outsourced SOME things.
                    The IBM system 1130's plotter is from Calcomp
                    and the paper tape reader from Tally.
                    The semiconductor RAM on the IBM system 38 is from EMM.

                    > In those days, IBM made everything themselves,

                    I wish I could find photos from the IBM Kingston facility's
                    Historical Society. It showed a HUGE foot-locker sized
                    core memory module for the IBM 360,
                    with photos of all the steps of manufacturing, weaving
                    and even re-weaving to replace a failed core!

                    -- jeffj
                  • Dave McGuire
                    ... Core runs hot, sure, but this is well understood and easily handled. If Dan has trouble getting that core plane running, it won t be because it runs too
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jun 5, 2011
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                      On 6/5/11 6:46 AM, Jeff Jonas wrote:
                      >>> I don't advise trying to build
                      >>> analog core memory read/write electronics ...
                      >
                      >> Hey, it's finicky and fiddly, but it can be done (and has been),
                      >> and there are many design examples out there.
                      >
                      > But can they handle the temperate range as things heat up,
                      > and the density of the one being considered?

                      Core runs hot, sure, but this is well understood and easily handled.
                      If Dan has trouble getting that core plane running, it won't be
                      because it runs too hot.

                      > The Arduino core project I saw recently
                      > is only 8 x 8 and very sparsely populated.

                      The sparseness of that design surely had little to do with heat.

                      > Yes, today's DSPs can do things
                      > that required dedicated hardware not long ago,
                      > but the algorithms and reliability looks tricky.
                      > If that's handled properly, I'd love to see the new ways!

                      Nah. Core is pretty reliable when you get a design running. Getting
                      it to that point takes work, though. Most, if not all core systems have
                      a thermistor near a core plane to adjust X/Y drive currents...I suppose
                      one *could* do that with a DSP, but you'd be replacing a simple,
                      easily-modeled circuit with maybe half a dozen transistors and a handful
                      of resistors with a very complex chip and hundreds, if not thousands of
                      lines of code.

                      -Dave

                      --
                      Dave McGuire
                      Port Charlotte, FL
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