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VCF, TCF and What is vintage

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  • Christian Liendo
    @Bill D. You are right.. Most people into the hobby are into it for nostalgia. They have the In my day I used to use xxxx computer .. For many of us that is a
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 1, 2011
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      @Bill D.
      You are right.. Most people into the hobby are into it for nostalgia. They have the "In my day I used to use xxxx computer".. For many of us that is a 1970s to Early 80s computer. To the younger generation thats a IBM PC or Early Mac. Lets be honest, we spend all this money to buy computers that we wanted when we were younger with no money.

      Case in point, Video Games.. When I think Vintage Video Gaming, I think Atari Pong, 2600, 5200, Coleco Vision, Intelivision even the C64. Want to know what is the most sought after items? Nintendo! Because a lot more people grew up on Nintendo. It's the young that are continuing the tradition, but with the machines they wanted.

      What to attract more youth, let them display their stuff as well.

      As for Vendors...
      I think the consignment area is a good idea. Why? Because I am lazy and I let someone else do the haggling. Some people don't. Why because they see it as cutting into their profits. It's the way they feel.

      I think VCF should have vendors and a flea market.. Why?

      People mention TCF. Well why did you go to TCF? Was it for the speeches? Or was it to go to the flea market?

      TCF got hosed because they hired Ken Gordon to run it and concerned themselves more with the vendors inside and the flea market people said "forget this" and went to Ebay.. Now people would rather not sell on Ebay because it is a pain. I mean ever try and ship some of these monsters?

      I understand Evan's concern that this will just become one large flea market. There needs to be a balance. VCFE is evolving and will never be perfect, but it has to be fun and we have to look at what visitors want and not always what we want.. Because what we want it visitors.
    • Evan Koblentz
      ... My official response to that is: not yet* -- with the asterisk indicating a case-by-case basis. If someone approaches us with a generic PC exhibit, they ll
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 1, 2011
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        >>> let them display their stuff as well.

        My official response to that is: not yet* -- with the asterisk indicating a case-by-case basis. If someone approaches us with a generic PC exhibit, they'll need to make a strong case other than "it's vintage to me".

        >>> I think VCF should have ... a flea market ... we have to look at what visitors want and not always what we want.

        Diplomatic non-answer: "We'll keep our eyes open for all options, but VCF will remain a non-commercial exhibit first and foremost."
      • B Degnan
        ... I wonder what a completely separate 1985 - 1995 era computing event would be like. C development systems OS/2 Amiga Mac II Sun Novell and Banyan etc. MARCH
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 1, 2011
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          At 12:13 PM 6/1/2011, you wrote:
          > >>> let them display their stuff as well.
          >
          >My official response to that is: not yet* -- with the asterisk
          >indicating a case-by-case basis. If someone approaches us with a
          >generic PC exhibit, they'll need to make a strong case other than
          >"it's vintage to me".

          I wonder what a completely separate 1985 - 1995 era computing event
          would be like.

          C development systems
          OS/2
          Amiga
          Mac II
          Sun
          Novell and Banyan
          etc.

          MARCH could be the first to establish a new genre.

          Bill
        • Dan Roganti
          ... 14.4K modems Internet ISP s CDRom multimedia SoundBlaster music & sound effects Desktop Video editing but why keep it separate ? It s entertaining still to
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 1, 2011
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            On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 12:36 PM, B Degnan <billdeg@...> wrote:

            I wonder what a completely separate 1985 - 1995 era computing event
            would be like.

            C development systems
            OS/2
            Amiga
            Mac II
            Sun
            Novell and Banyan
            etc.
             
            14.4K modems
            Internet ISP's
            CDRom multimedia
            SoundBlaster music & sound effects
            Desktop Video editing

            but why keep it separate ?
            It's entertaining still to keep it all combined


          • B Degnan
            ... desktop publishing and early laser printers Not in the same exhibit space. a separate post 85 to pre-Pentium room, with armed guards at the doors to keep
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 1, 2011
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              I wonder what a completely separate 1985 - 1995 era computing event
              would be like.

              C development systems
              OS/2
              Amiga
              Mac II
              Sun
              Novell and Banyan
              etc.

               
              14.4K modems
              Internet ISP's
              CDRom multimedia
              SoundBlaster music & sound effects
              Desktop Video editing

              but why keep it separate ?
              It's entertaining still to keep it all combined

              desktop publishing and early laser printers

              Not in the same exhibit space.  a separate post 85 to pre-Pentium room, with armed guards at the doors to keep them from intimidating the 8-bits.

              Seriously, I would not want everything just mixed together, not sure if it's my need for a sense of order or what.  I'd envision a separate post vintage computer festival held someplace...hmmmm.....I like that term "post-vintage computer" festival.  Or maybe post-modern computers.

              Bill

              Bill
            • Evan Koblentz
              ... Just so everyone s clear though: Bill is merely pondering. MARCH nor VintageTech, etc., has any such plans to make a mid-80s VCF. Please don t take the
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 1, 2011
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                >>> I wonder what a completely separate 1985 - 1995 era computing event would be like.

                Just so everyone's clear though: Bill is merely pondering. MARCH nor VintageTech, etc., has any such plans to make a mid-80s VCF. Please don't take the idea too seriously.

                Thanks. :)
              • Dan Roganti
                ... with armed guards at the doors to keep them from intimidating the 8-bits. ... That might work. There s more room at Infoage now. And you can get some kids
                Message 7 of 11 , Jun 1, 2011
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                  On Jun 1, 2011 1:21 PM, "B Degnan" <billdeg@...> wrote:
                  > Not in the same exhibit space.  a separate post 85 to pre-Pentium room, with armed guards at the doors to keep them from intimidating the 8-bits.
                  >

                  That might work. There's more room at Infoage now.
                  And you can get some kids from dressed in red neon TRON guard outfits standing at the doorway ~haaa
                  Don't forget TRON Girl too :)

                  > Seriously, I would not want everything just mixed together, not sure if it's my need for a sense of order or what.  I'd envision a separate post vintage computer festival held someplace...hmmmm.....I like that term "post-vintage computer" festival.  Or maybe post-modern computers.
                  >

                  A separate event  might be be hard to get enough visitors. But it could actually increase the attendance for VCF East.  I think a tip from the gaming shows would be wise to follow. They include just about every generation of gaming, both home and arcade. And they get hundreds n hundreas of people attending. Why create aseparate event when you don't have too.

                  =Dan

                • Curt @ Atari Museum
                  That might be interesting... as the show grows, it may be a great idea to break it into Decades and exhibit that way.... I loved the consignment area, I only
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jun 1, 2011
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                    That might be interesting... as the show grows, it may be a great idea
                    to break it into Decades and exhibit that way.... I loved the
                    consignment area, I only picked up one or two tiny things, I'm trying to
                    trim down an already bloated collection of things that are not part of
                    my core interests, so I had to restrain myself... A true value of the
                    consignment/flea market is to give people a place to sell/trade or just
                    leave for others equipment that we as enthusiasts in the hobby find
                    useful and valuable, so I think its a great thing to get people to dig
                    stuff out of their closets and bring the stuff to the shows.
                  • s100doctor
                    ... I think it s reasonable of Evan to try to balance the primary purpose of VCF-E, as an exhibit and lecture forum, with interests in vending and with small
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jun 2, 2011
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                      "Curt @ Atari Museum" <curt@...> wrote:
                      > A true value of the
                      > consignment/flea market is to give people a place to sell/trade or just
                      > leave for others equipment that we as enthusiasts in the hobby find
                      > useful and valuable, so I think its a great thing to get people to dig
                      > stuff out of their closets and bring the stuff to the shows.
                      >

                      I think it's reasonable of Evan to try to balance the primary purpose of VCF-E, as an exhibit and lecture forum, with interests in vending and with "small sales". I see his point about one consignment area as a kind of flea market, and that one of that sort is enough given the venue and its focus.

                      I think if vendors are primarily exhibitors and supporters of vintage computing - even if what they show are their own products, or what they show are computers for sale - then I think that is also consistent with Evan's view of VCF-E. (I'm biased of course.) As a practical matter, I doubt any other kind of vendor will find VCF-E very attractive. I'm glad vendors have become a part of the VCF-E program.

                      But that's not to say that some OTHER venue could be an open flea market, or could represent a different era of personal computing. But maybe it's not too fair to Evan to talk about other venues, right after he finished VCF-E. He and our colleagues did a good job this year and I'm pleased to have participated, even for some of my grousing here.

                      Also, I think it's a little unfair to compare and "grieve" here about Trenton Computer Fest - no club, show, organization in computing "is" what it "was" THIRTY PLUS years ago. They are a survivor and that's just amazing. And the world of available and/or vintage computers is very different today than of one or two decades ago. TCF has evolved to meet circumstances, as I see it.

                      But, if people want to develop other venues, it seems reasonable to talk about them after experiencing VCF-E. VCF-E is a catalyst, not a competitor, in my opinion, so I see such discussions as proof of interest and enthusiasm.

                      My several cents,
                      Herb Johnson
                    • Evan Koblentz
                      ... Thank you. I m glad someone finally said that. ... Thank you again. ... We re used to it. :)
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jun 5, 2011
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                        > But maybe it's not too fair to Evan to talk about other venues, right after he finished VCF-E

                        Thank you. I'm glad someone finally said that.

                        > He and our colleagues did a good job this year

                        Thank you again.

                        > I'm pleased to have participated, even for some of my grousing here.

                        We're used to it. :)
                      • Evan Koblentz
                        ... I, for one, would be majorly pissed off if someone started a local vintage computer event outside of MARCH. On the other hand, if you people talk, then
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jun 5, 2011
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                          > But, if people want to develop other venues, it seems reasonable to talk about them


                          I, for one, would be majorly pissed off if someone started a local
                          vintage computer event outside of MARCH. On the other hand, if you
                          people talk, then it's my job to listen. :)

                          We could do this as a fall event entirely separate from VCF. November
                          might be a good time for it.

                          I envision a single-day straightforward swap meet. No-frills booths for
                          $25 each; general admission for $10 each; kids get in free.

                          That would make it easy for sellers to make back their money, and easy
                          for MARCH to profit.

                          But first I'll check the InfoAge schedule. Will see what else is
                          happening around that time. OMARC seems to have swap meets on a regular
                          basis (but they don't have anything like VCF). I'll find out how they go
                          about it; maybe they'll have some good advice for us.
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