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IBM 360 and older computers - any still running?

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  • B. Degnan
    Are there any IBM 360 computers still in use/still functional in the world? What is the oldest functional WWII or newer computer (electronic)? Where is it?
    Message 1 of 23 , Mar 28, 2011
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      Are there any IBM 360 computers still in use/still functional in the world?
      What is the oldest functional WWII or newer computer (electronic)? Where
      is it?

      Bill Degnan
    • Evan Koblentz
      ... That was a cctalk topic a few months ago. Look in archives. Why do you ask?
      Message 2 of 23 , Mar 28, 2011
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        >>> What is the oldest functional WWII or newer computer (electronic)? Where is it?

        That was a cctalk topic a few months ago. Look in archives.

        Why do you ask?
      • B. Degnan
        yes after the the endless and typical pointless comments about defining what is a computer, etc. finally someone posted this answer:
        Message 3 of 23 , Mar 28, 2011
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          yes after the the endless and typical pointless comments about defining
          what is a computer, etc. finally someone posted this answer:
          http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2008-February/254895.html (1958
          computer)

          So does anyone know if there is an old mainframe from the 50's that still
          is in use, built before 1958 at least functional enough to load and run
          programs. My Heathkit EC-1 is from the 1950's and functional (thanks to
          help from other MARCHins.), but it's analog.

          My original question was pretty clear I hope. The cctalk response did not
          answer my question. I remember reading that the Mark I was still
          functional.

          Bill Degnan

          -------- Original Message --------
          > From: "Evan Koblentz" <evan@...>
          > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 2:01 PM
          > To: "MARCH Yahoo Midatlanticretro" <midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com>
          > Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] IBM 360 and older computers - any still
          running?
          >
          > >>> What is the oldest functional WWII or newer computer (electronic)?
          Where is it?
          >
          > That was a cctalk topic a few months ago. Look in archives.
          >
          > Why do you ask?
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • Evan Koblentz
          So does anyone know if there is an old mainframe from the 50 s that still is in use, built before 1958 at least functional enough to load and run programs. I
          Message 4 of 23 , Mar 28, 2011
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            So does anyone know if there is an old mainframe from the 50's that still is in use, built before 1958 at least functional enough to load and run programs.

            I don't know, but I know of two possible computers that maybe * could * run someday:
            - MOBIDIC 'A' circa 1956. It was moved 18 years ago from Ft. Monmouth to a depot in Alabama. Various military people with connections to InfoAge are trying to locate it. You know where "the Evan in Camp Evans" thinks it belongs. :)
            - I know a private collector who has a 1950s mainframe and who seriously intends to restore it. But I'm sworn to secrecy about the details.
          • Mike Loewen
            ... I don t know how old this video is, but supposedly there s an IBM 650 in Germany in operating condition:
            Message 5 of 23 , Mar 28, 2011
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              On Mon, 28 Mar 2011, B. Degnan wrote:

              > So does anyone know if there is an old mainframe from the 50's that still
              > is in use, built before 1958 at least functional enough to load and run
              > programs. My Heathkit EC-1 is from the 1950's and functional (thanks to
              > help from other MARCHins.), but it's analog.

              I don't know how old this video is, but supposedly there's an IBM 650
              in Germany in operating condition:

              http://eyeball.right-net.com/computerhistory/IBM650-IBM305.wmv
              http://eyeball.right-net.com/computerhistory/


              Mike Loewen mloewen@...
              Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
            • B. Degnan
              ... still ... run ... to ... I found these http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzCfnlIdAug The Harwell WITCH is at Bletchley Park. Not sure if it s fully
              Message 6 of 23 , Mar 28, 2011
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                > On Mon, 28 Mar 2011, B. Degnan wrote:
                >
                > > So does anyone know if there is an old mainframe from the 50's that
                still
                > > is in use, built before 1958 at least functional enough to load and
                run
                > > programs. My Heathkit EC-1 is from the 1950's and functional (thanks
                to
                > > help from other MARCHins.), but it's analog.
                >
                > I don't know how old this video is, but supposedly there's an IBM 650

                > in Germany in operating condition:
                >
                > http://eyeball.right-net.com/computerhistory/IBM650-IBM305.wmv
                > http://eyeball.right-net.com/computerhistory/
                >
                >

                I found these

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzCfnlIdAug
                The Harwell WITCH is at Bletchley Park. Not sure if it's fully
                functioning, but if so this would be the winner.

                Collosus Mark II
                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JQ0F0DFxwM

                did not find any American mainframes from 1950's on youtube, yet. I would
                love to see a working IBM 360, from the 60's.

                It is possible then, that if we can get the UNIVAC running, assuming the
                Mark I is not functional, that we'd have at MARCH the oldest working
                computer. If we could just get the main 1219 running, it'd count, yes?

                Bill
              • David Gesswein
                ... From my web search I got that the 1219 was introduced in 1964. Is that date wrong since the discussion seems to be looking for 50 s machines?
                Message 7 of 23 , Mar 28, 2011
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                  On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 02:57:44PM -0400, B. Degnan wrote:
                  >
                  > It is possible then, that if we can get the UNIVAC running, assuming the
                  > Mark I is not functional, that we'd have at MARCH the oldest working
                  > computer. If we could just get the main 1219 running, it'd count, yes?
                  >
                  From my web search I got that the 1219 was introduced in 1964. Is that
                  date wrong since the discussion seems to be looking for 50's machines?
                • Evan Koblentz
                  ... No, it s correct. I too was confused by Bill s statement, because the cctalk replies already showed that older machines are running in Germany, as Bill
                  Message 8 of 23 , Mar 28, 2011
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                    >> It is possible then, that if we can get the UNIVAC running, assuming the Mark I is not functional, that we'd have at MARCH the oldest working computer. If we could just get the main 1219 running, it'd count, yes?
                    > From my web search I got that the 1219 was introduced in 1964. Is that date wrong since the discussion seems to be looking for 50's machines?

                    No, it's correct. I too was confused by Bill's statement, because the
                    cctalk replies already showed that older machines are running in
                    Germany, as Bill announced. Frankly, our 1219-B wouldn't even be close
                    to that title.

                    If had been able to rescue Claude's B-205 ......
                  • Evan Koblentz
                    ... CHM has a working DEC PDP-1 from 1960. Very special memory: when they opened the exhibit during VCF West a few years ago and let us all play SpaceWar on it
                    Message 9 of 23 , Mar 28, 2011
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                      > It is possible then, that if we can get the UNIVAC running, assuming the Mark I is not functional, that we'd have at MARCH the oldest working computer. If we could just get the main 1219 running, it'd count, yes?

                      CHM has a working DEC PDP-1 from 1960.

                      Very special memory: when they opened the exhibit during VCF West a few
                      years ago and let us all play SpaceWar on it vs. Steve Russell and Peter
                      Samson.

                      So, I can honestly say that I've personally * used * a mainframe older
                      than our UNIVAC, even though I wasn't born until 1974. :)
                    • Mike Loewen
                      ... My wife and I got to play Spacewar on the PDP-1 BEFORE it was opened to the public. :-) Thanks to Lyle Bickley for the private tour. ... ...and I ve
                      Message 10 of 23 , Mar 28, 2011
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                        On Mon, 28 Mar 2011, Evan Koblentz wrote:

                        > CHM has a working DEC PDP-1 from 1960.
                        >
                        > Very special memory: when they opened the exhibit during VCF West a few
                        > years ago and let us all play SpaceWar on it vs. Steve Russell and Peter
                        > Samson.

                        My wife and I got to play Spacewar on the PDP-1 BEFORE it was opened
                        to the public. :-) Thanks to Lyle Bickley for the private tour.

                        > So, I can honestly say that I've personally * used * a mainframe older
                        > than our UNIVAC, even though I wasn't born until 1974. :)

                        ...and I've personally used (and maintained) a system that was
                        installed in 1957. Almost as old as me... :-)


                        Mike Loewen mloewen@...
                        Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                      • Evan Koblentz
                        ... They had counting back then?
                        Message 11 of 23 , Mar 28, 2011
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                          > My wife and I got to play Spacewar on the PDP-1 BEFORE it was opened to the public. :-) Thanks to Lyle Bickley for the private tour. ...and I've personally used (and maintained) a system that was installed in 1957. Almost as old as me... :-)

                          They had "counting" back then?
                        • Mike Loewen
                          ... Yes, but if you wanted to go higher than 10, you had to take off your shoes. Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology
                          Message 12 of 23 , Mar 28, 2011
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                            On Mon, 28 Mar 2011, Evan Koblentz wrote:

                            >> My wife and I got to play Spacewar on the PDP-1 BEFORE it was opened to the public. :-) Thanks to Lyle Bickley for the private tour. ...and I've personally used (and maintained) a system that was installed in 1957. Almost as old as me... :-)
                            >
                            > They had "counting" back then?

                            Yes, but if you wanted to go higher than 10, you had to take off your
                            shoes.


                            Mike Loewen mloewen@...
                            Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                          • David Gesswein
                            ... Do you know the date of the working one? Their web pages don t seem to give the history of the particular machine they have restored. From other sites it
                            Message 13 of 23 , Mar 28, 2011
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                              On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 07:20:52PM -0400, Evan Koblentz wrote:
                              >
                              > CHM has a working DEC PDP-1 from 1960.
                              >
                              Do you know the date of the working one? Their web pages don't seem to
                              give the history of the particular machine they have restored. From
                              other sites it was stated the one they have on display was the last made
                              and another site said PDP-1's were made from 1959 to 1969.
                            • Evan Koblentz
                              ... Good point. I ll find out.
                              Message 14 of 23 , Mar 28, 2011
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                                >> CHM has a working DEC PDP-1 from 1960.
                                > Do you know the date of the working one? Their web pages don't seem to give the history of the particular machine they have restored. From other sites it was stated the one they have on display was the last made and another site said PDP-1's were made from 1959 to 1969.

                                Good point. I'll find out.
                              • B Degnan
                                ... I sometimes write rambling posts, sorry. I really wanted to know is what/where is the oldest working electronic mainfram/mini computer in the USA, or at
                                Message 15 of 23 , Mar 28, 2011
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                                  At 08:24 PM 3/28/2011, you wrote:

                                  >> CHM has a working DEC PDP-1 from 1960.
                                  > Do you know the date of the working one? Their web pages don't seem to give the history of the particular machine they have restored. From other sites it was stated the one they have on display was the last made and another site said PDP-1's were made from 1959 to 1969.

                                  Good point.  I'll find out.


                                  I sometimes write rambling posts, sorry.

                                  I really wanted to know is what/where is the oldest working electronic mainfram/mini computer in the USA, or at least in our region?  The cctalk thread Evan referenced quickly turned into "what is a computer", etc, not very helpful.  I can't find any really good videos or specific articles, even a "top 10 oldest computers list".   Might a good topic for research I suppose?  I would be kind of sad if the 196x PDP-1 at CHM was the oldest working mini/mainfr. computer in the USA.  Think of all of the huge systems that are now gone.  If I understand correctly the Mark I was still in-tact.    It could be revived someday.

                                  MARCH's Univac is a model 1219-II, which is not exactly the same thing as the original 1219, though it has the same form factor and design.  MARCHs UNIVAC 1219-II is a contemporary of MARCHs PDP 8, both I'd estimate dating 1965  and 1967 respectively.     

                                  I would think some insurance company in Manhattan or Philadelphia would have an IBM 360 in their corporate headquarters basement, or at least I would hope one surfaces.  We'd probably have to wait until after VCF for that rescue. 

                                  We need an archaeologist.    ... and a crane.

                                  Bill

                                • Evan Koblentz
                                  ... Hard to compare a 250-lb. desktop mini and a multi-ton ship-board radar/weapons control machine. :) ... GE 225 controls fuel system at one of the major
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Mar 29, 2011
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                                    >>> MARCH's Univac is a model 1219-II, which is not exactly the same thing as the original 1219, though it has the same form factor and design.  MARCHs UNIVAC 1219-II is a contemporary of MARCHs PDP 8, both I'd estimate dating 1965  and 1967 respectively.

                                    Hard to compare a 250-lb. "desktop" mini and a multi-ton ship-board radar/weapons control machine. :)

                                    >>> I would think some insurance company in Manhattan or Philadelphia would have an IBM 360 in their corporate headquarters basement, or at least I would hope one surfaces.

                                    GE 225 controls fuel system at one of the major NY airports. I forget the details; it's been several months since I corresponded with the admin. Will follow up this week.
                                  • Dan Roganti
                                    ... I wouldn t mind camping out at Infoage for a month during the summer to fix stuff like this - I mentioned this once last time. But I can fix anything if I
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Mar 29, 2011
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                                      On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 6:42 AM, Evan Koblentz <evan@...> wrote:
                                      >>> MARCH's Univac is a model 1219-II, which is not exactly the same thing as the original 1219, though it has the same form factor and design.  MARCHs UNIVAC 1219-II is a contemporary of MARCHs PDP 8, both I'd estimate dating 1965  and 1967 respectively.


                                      >>> I would think some insurance company in Manhattan or Philadelphia would have an IBM 360 in their corporate headquarters basement, or at least I would hope one surfaces.

                                      GE 225 controls fuel system at one of the major NY airports. I forget the details; it's been several months since I corresponded with the admin. Will follow up this week.


                                      I wouldn't mind camping out at Infoage for a month during the summer to fix stuff like this - I mentioned this once last time. But I can fix anything if I didn't have to worry about working a day job - and with the right parts  - plus I have my own test equip and tools :)  I just have to figure out how to pay my bills then, these days it's hard to save up for things like this.



                                    • GoodtimePA
                                      ... as the original 1219, though it has the same form factor and design.  MARCHs UNIVAC 1219-II is a contemporary of MARCHs PDP 8, both I d estimate dating
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Mar 29, 2011
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                                        >>> MARCH's Univac is a model 1219-II, which is not exactly the same thing
                                        as the original 1219, though it has the same form factor and design.  MARCHs
                                        UNIVAC 1219-II is a contemporary of MARCHs PDP 8, both I'd estimate dating
                                        1965  and 1967 respectively.

                                        >>Hard to compare a 250-lb. "desktop" mini and a multi-ton ship-board
                                        radar/weapons control machine. :)

                                        >>> I would think some insurance company in Manhattan or Philadelphia would
                                        have an IBM 360 in their corporate headquarters basement, or at least I
                                        would hope one surfaces.

                                        >>GE 225 controls fuel system at one of the major NY airports. I forget the
                                        details; it's been several months since I corresponded with the admin. Will
                                        follow up this week.

                                        Don't know if this is helpful or not but, Willingboro High School had an IBM
                                        360 once upon a time. I know this because I took my first programming
                                        classes using it and IBM 3742 Dual Data Station disk encoding machines to
                                        learn RPG. I don't know what ever happened to it [stored away by now I would
                                        think]. There might be a chance for a rescue there. It was in Willingboro,
                                        NJ.

                                        Never know, could possibly pan out to be something or even put us on the
                                        trail of one.

                                        Greg
                                      • Bob Schwier
                                        What about our government or foreign governments? I remember that the SAGE vacuum tube computer only went off line when it was discovered that they had to buy
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Apr 3, 2011
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                                          What about our government or foreign governments?
                                          I remember that the SAGE vacuum tube computer only went off line when
                                          it was discovered that they had to buy the replacement tubes from
                                          Yugoslavia a then communist state.
                                          When was CP-301 first fielded? I've tried to google info on it and
                                          failed. I know that CP-301 was still used in year 2000 because I
                                          remember,with great amusement, watching such being loaded into the
                                          Adam's Mark Hotel in Philadelphia for military contractor training
                                          My readings seem to hint but not with the obviousness that I would
                                          feel confident about that the machines were a 1965 vintage.
                                          We were involved in the early eighties in an effort to create a
                                          replacement in a 6500 or 65000 environment. We had reasons for
                                          going with Motorola but I don't remember what they were.
                                          after a PSFS convention that I was working.
                                          Also, just out of curiosity, what was the civilian computer that
                                          CP-301 was the militarized version of?
                                          My efforts with google on this subject have been a complete pain in
                                          the ass.




                                          --- On Mon, 3/28/11, Evan Koblentz <evan@...> wrote:

                                          From: Evan Koblentz <evan@...>
                                          Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] IBM 360 and older computers - any still running?
                                          To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Monday, March 28, 2011, 8:24 PM







                                           











                                          >> CHM has a working DEC PDP-1 from 1960.

                                          > Do you know the date of the working one? Their web pages don't seem to give the history of the particular machine they have restored. From other sites it was stated the one they have on display was the last made and another site said PDP-1's were made from 1959 to 1969.



                                          Good point. I'll find out.
                                        • B Degnan
                                          I am going to snoop around some of the old DuPont buildings in downtown Wilmington. They may have some old remnants there. I will ask hi I d like to take a
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Apr 3, 2011
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                                            I am going to snoop around some of the old DuPont
                                            buildings in downtown Wilmington. They may have
                                            some old remnants there. I will ask "hi I'd like
                                            to take a look at the old computer down in the
                                            basement, can you take me to it?"
                                            bd

                                            At 11:17 AM 4/3/2011, you wrote:
                                            >What about our government or foreign governments?
                                            >I remember that the SAGE vacuum tube computer only went off line when
                                            >it was discovered that they had to buy the replacement tubes from
                                            >Yugoslavia a then communist state.
                                            >When was CP-301 first fielded? I've tried to google info on it and
                                            >failed. I know that CP-301 was still used in year 2000 because I
                                            >remember,with great amusement, watching such being loaded into the
                                            >Adam's Mark Hotel in Philadelphia for military contractor training
                                            >My readings seem to hint but not with the obviousness that I would
                                            >feel confident about that the machines were a 1965 vintage.
                                            >We were involved in the early eighties in an effort to create a
                                            >replacement in a 6500 or 65000 environment. We had reasons for
                                            >going with Motorola but I don't remember what they were.
                                            >after a PSFS convention that I was working.
                                            >Also, just out of curiosity, what was the civilian computer that
                                            >CP-301 was the militarized version of?
                                            >My efforts with google on this subject have been a complete pain in
                                            >the ass.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >--- On Mon, 3/28/11, Evan Koblentz <evan@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >From: Evan Koblentz <evan@...>
                                            >Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] IBM 360 and
                                            >older computers - any still running?
                                            >To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                            >Date: Monday, March 28, 2011, 8:24 PM
                                            >
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                                            > >> CHM has a working DEC PDP-1 from 1960.
                                            >
                                            > > Do you know the date of the working one?
                                            > Their web pages don't seem to give the history
                                            > of the particular machine they have restored.
                                            > From other sites it was stated the one they
                                            > have on display was the last made and another
                                            > site said PDP-1's were made from 1959 to 1969.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >Good point. I'll find out.
                                            >
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                                            >------------------------------------
                                            >
                                            >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                          • Justin Jernigan
                                            Remember to say please and thank you. Sent from my iPhone ... Remember to say please and thank you. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 3, 2011, at 12:05 PM, B Degnan
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Apr 3, 2011
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                                              Remember to say please and thank you.

                                              Sent from my iPhone

                                              On Apr 3, 2011, at 12:05 PM, B Degnan <billdeg@...> wrote:

                                               

                                              I am going to snoop around some of the old DuPont
                                              buildings in downtown Wilmington. They may have
                                              some old remnants there. I will ask "hi I'd like
                                              to take a look at the old computer down in the
                                              basement, can you take me to it?"
                                              bd

                                              At 11:17 AM 4/3/2011, you wrote:
                                              >What about our government or foreign governments?
                                              >I remember that the SAGE vacuum tube computer only went off line when
                                              >it was discovered that they had to buy the replacement tubes from
                                              >Yugoslavia a then communist state.
                                              >When was CP-301 first fielded? I've tried to google info on it and
                                              >failed. I know that CP-301 was still used in year 2000 because I
                                              >remember,with great amusement, watching such being loaded into the
                                              >Adam's Mark Hotel in Philadelphia for military contractor training
                                              >My readings seem to hint but not with the obviousness that I would
                                              >feel confident about that the machines were a 1965 vintage.
                                              >We were involved in the early eighties in an effort to create a
                                              >replacement in a 6500 or 65000 environment. We had reasons for
                                              >going with Motorola but I don't remember what they were.
                                              >after a PSFS convention that I was working.
                                              >Also, just out of curiosity, what was the civilian computer that
                                              >CP-301 was the militarized version of?
                                              >My efforts with google on this subject have been a complete pain in
                                              >the ass.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >--- On Mon, 3/28/11, Evan Koblentz <evan@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              >From: Evan Koblentz <evan@...>
                                              >Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] IBM 360 and
                                              >older computers - any still running?
                                              >To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                              >Date: Monday, March 28, 2011, 8:24 PM
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
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                                              >

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                                              > >> CHM has a working DEC PDP-1 from 1960.
                                              >
                                              > > Do you know the date of the working one?
                                              > Their web pages don't seem to give the history
                                              > of the particular machine they have restored.
                                              > From other sites it was stated the one they
                                              > have on display was the last made and another
                                              > site said PDP-1's were made from 1959 to 1969.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >Good point. I'll find out.
                                              >
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                                              >------------------------------------
                                              >
                                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >

                                            • Jeffrey Brace
                                              From: Justin Jernigan Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 12:53 PM To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com Cc: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re:
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Apr 3, 2011
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                                                Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 12:53 PM
                                                Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] IBM 360 and older computers - any still running?
                                                 

                                                On Apr 3, 2011, at 12:05 PM, B Degnan <billdeg@...> wrote:

                                                 

                                                I am going to snoop around some of the old DuPont
                                                buildings in downtown Wilmington. They may have
                                                some old remnants there. I will ask "hi I'd like
                                                to take a look at the old computer down in the
                                                basement, can you take me to it?"
                                                bd

                                                 

                                                >>>>>>>
                                                 
                                                    Perhaps a good place to start would be with universities, government institutions or businesses where one has studied or worked in the past. I will, for example, contact my Alma Mater and see what they are running these days.
                                                 
                                                 
                                                Jeff3 Brace


                                              • B Degnan
                                                ... When I worked in downtown wilmington there were mainframes in the basement of certain DuPont buildings. These are huge fortesses, there is also an AT&T
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Apr 3, 2011
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                                                  I am going to snoop around some of the old DuPont
                                                  buildings in downtown Wilmington. They may have
                                                  some old remnants there. I will ask "hi I'd like
                                                  to take a look at the old computer down in the
                                                  basement, can you take me to it?"
                                                  bd

                                                   
                                                  >>>>>>>
                                                   
                                                      Perhaps a good place to start would be with universities, government institutions or businesses where one has studied or worked in the past. I will, for example, contact my Alma Mater and see what they are running these days.
                                                   
                                                   
                                                  Jeff3 Brace

                                                  When I worked in downtown wilmington there were mainframes in the basement of certain DuPont buildings.  These are huge fortesses, there is also an AT&T building, etc.  Lots of places were mainframes could be hiding. 

                                                  I work downtown, it's not a big deal to ask questions during my work day.

                                                  bd
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