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VCF hands-on classes update

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  • Evan Koblentz
    There s not much to report on the workshops front. Vince moved west, and nobody else volunteered to lead a workshop. Leading would mean not just teaching,
    Message 1 of 19 , Feb 18, 2011
      There's not much to report on the workshops front. Vince moved west,
      and nobody else volunteered to lead a workshop. "Leading" would mean
      not just teaching, but also arranging the logistics, re: get the parts, etc.

      What I propose instead of workshops are some introductory how-to
      classes. For ex., "8-bit Microcomputer Evaluation"; "S-100 Testing and
      Usage"; "DEC Minicomputers For Dummies". I definitely see us charging
      extra for these classes. The classes could run for a couple of hours
      and be limited to, say, 10 people. That way the students can gather
      around the teacher and really learn something.

      As an incentive, for each class, MARCH can split the revenue with the
      teachers. (I'm more concerned with giving the attendees something * NEW
      * to do at our show, than with making a big pile of money.)

      But the classes can't be too specific. Sorry Jeff B., no class in
      Commodore 1541 drive repair. :) This year I just want us to try a
      few generic classes as an experiment in "what works for a successful VCF
      special event".

      Whomever would like to be an instructor, please speak up.

      Whether the classes run parallel to the lectures or parallel to the
      exhibits, and whether they're one day or both days, are all details to
      be determined. It largely depends on what the instructors want to do.
    • Bill Degnan
      Evan, There are plenty of vendors who sell vintage tech related kits who could do a workshop, if we put out a message on cctalk and offered to allow vendors to
      Message 2 of 19 , Feb 19, 2011
        Evan,
        There are plenty of vendors who sell vintage tech related kits who could do
        a workshop, if we put out a message on cctalk and offered to allow vendors
        to sell kits and run a workshop for assembling them I am confident we'd
        find volunteers. Mention that we'd offer space for 6-12 soldering
        stations.

        Media archiving workshop
        Would someone in the group be interested in running a workshop about
        archiving old media? There would be a lot of people interested in
        techniques for things like archiving 8" disks, hard sectored disks
        (northstar), Commodore, Apple, Tandy, assembly lang. cassette to disk, CP/M
        to MS DOS, etc.

        It would be best if the workshop was specific such as "how to archive
        Commodore VIC/64/128 diskettes using xyw device and xyz software"

        It would be best if the workshop used software and hardware that was
        obtainable either that day or mail order.

        What an attendee would want to learn is what specific hardware and software
        is needed, and to watch and take notes so that they could then repeat the
        process from home. It's possible that there are vendors who have products
        that could be featured in such a demo, SD card storage carts, etc.
        Attendees might be invited to bring a disk to have archived for demo
        purposes.

        Bill Degnan

        -------- Original Message --------
        > From: "Evan Koblentz" <evan@...>
        > Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 1:13 AM
        > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [midatlanticretro] VCF hands-on classes update
        >
        > There's not much to report on the workshops front. Vince moved west,
        > and nobody else volunteered to lead a workshop. "Leading" would mean
        > not just teaching, but also arranging the logistics, re: get the parts,
        etc.
        >
        > What I propose instead of workshops are some introductory how-to
        > classes. For ex., "8-bit Microcomputer Evaluation"; "S-100 Testing and
        > Usage"; "DEC Minicomputers For Dummies". I definitely see us charging
        > extra for these classes. The classes could run for a couple of hours
        > and be limited to, say, 10 people. That way the students can gather
        > around the teacher and really learn something.
        >
        > As an incentive, for each class, MARCH can split the revenue with the
        > teachers. (I'm more concerned with giving the attendees something * NEW

        > * to do at our show, than with making a big pile of money.)
        >
        > But the classes can't be too specific. Sorry Jeff B., no class in
        > Commodore 1541 drive repair. :) This year I just want us to try a
        > few generic classes as an experiment in "what works for a successful VCF

        > special event".
        >
        > Whomever would like to be an instructor, please speak up.
        >
        > Whether the classes run parallel to the lectures or parallel to the
        > exhibits, and whether they're one day or both days, are all details to
        > be determined. It largely depends on what the instructors want to do.
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • Dan Roganti
        ... I was worried about that too. Have you tried to get Jim Brain He has great stuff too, for Commodore, except I think most of his products are assembled. ...
        Message 3 of 19 , Feb 19, 2011
          On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 1:12 AM, Evan Koblentz <evan@...> wrote:
          There's not much to report on the workshops front.  Vince moved west,
          and nobody else volunteered to lead a workshop.  "Leading" would mean
          not just teaching, but also arranging the logistics, re: get the parts, etc.

          I was worried about that too.
          Have you tried to get Jim Brain
          He has great stuff too, for Commodore, except I think most of his products are assembled.

           

          What I propose instead of workshops are some introductory how-to
          classes.  For ex., "8-bit Microcomputer Evaluation"; "S-100 Testing and
          Usage"; "DEC Minicomputers For Dummies".  I definitely see us charging
          extra for these classes.  The classes could run for a couple of hours
          and be limited to, say, 10 people.  That way the students can gather
          around the teacher and really learn something.

          I have one idea that I can offer for a workshop, it's not really a kit, just another retro hack project I had in mind. How about something simple such as "Build Your Own Transistor Logic circuit". I have a large bag full of these NOS vintage transistors, the sort you find on the old 60's minicomputers - never been used. I sorted some of them and they are perfect for wiring your own Transistor Logic cards, the kind you see on the original PDP-8. I just have to find a generic experimenter board that's not too big - I'm hoping to find one with an edge connector, just like on the PDP-8. That one I was looking for recently, 22/44pin card is way to big for this - I have to find something with less pins.

          Then you can decide on what to make, either your own Full Adder circuit, Flip-Flop circuit, etc. I have the schematics already, they just pick one out and start wiring. The parts are simple, a couple of transistors, few resistors, and a couple of LEDs. It would be all point to point wiring - no PCB - just like the early days. So you need some soldering experience, it's not entirely for kids - but kids learn fast - I did this when I was 12.

          These wouldn't be deadend designs either, they can always pursue this further at home afterwards, to build some more, make their own backplan to plug these into and wire it to make their own computer.


          Whether the classes run parallel to the lectures or parallel to the
          exhibits, and whether they're one day or both days, are all details to
          be determined.  It largely depends on what the instructors want to do.


          I wouldn't want to miss the lectures either

          =Dan

        • Evan Koblentz
          ... Neat idea * if * you are willing to do all the work to organize it. (That s why Vince did so well.) ... So when would it happen? Would you not exhibit?
          Message 4 of 19 , Feb 19, 2011
            >>> I have one idea that I can offer for a workshop... How about something simple such as "Build Your Own Transistor Logic circuit".

            Neat idea * if * you are willing to do all the work to organize it. (That's why Vince did so well.)

            >>> I wouldn't want to miss the lectures either

            So when would it happen? Would you not exhibit?
          • Jeffrey Brace
            ... From: Dan Roganti To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 19,
            Message 5 of 19 , Feb 19, 2011
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 10:20 AM
              Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] VCF hands-on classes update

               

              Have you tried to get Jim Brain
              He has great stuff too, for Commodore, except I think most of his products are assembled.

              .

               
              Dan, That is a great idea ! I never thought about Jim Brain. I have to brainstorm and see if there are other similar types that are making devices for vintage computers.
            • Dan Roganti
              ... yea, of course, it s not the first time I did this. I just need to resolve that issue about the one last part -- the card edge experimenter board. I ll
              Message 6 of 19 , Feb 19, 2011
                On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Evan Koblentz <evan@...> wrote:
                >>> I have one idea that I can offer for a workshop... How about something simple such as "Build Your Own Transistor Logic circuit".

                Neat idea * if * you are willing to do all the work to organize it. (That's why Vince did so well.)

                yea, of course, it's not the first time I did this. I just need to resolve that issue about the one last part -- the card edge experimenter board. I'll keep you posted. The card edge connector has that vintage look 'n feel, so I prefer to find that. I can always opt for a standard 100mil header for the connector as a last resort.

                As for organizing, I can take care of the logistics, training, manual, parts. But I don't have a webpage for this - I would suggest some kind of entry form on the VCF or MARCH website where they can order this. And I'll be ready for it. I'm not asking for anything, they just have to pay the cost of materials and tag on a donation for the entry fee.

                 

                >>> I wouldn't want to miss the lectures either

                So when would it happen? Would you not exhibit?

                oh I still have an exhibit. I figure the workshop would be 3hrs[with headroom] - that's enough time to build one and test it - and know how to make more on their own. So maybe I could hold it in the afternoon - maybe late afternoon - so those can also attend the lectures and exhibits, if somebody would just watch my stuff during that time. I hate to miss the lectures in the morning.

                =Dan

              • Jim Scheef
                Building on the software archival workshop, I would like to see a detailed catweasel demo that includes how to build the PC to support it. Jim
                Message 7 of 19 , Feb 19, 2011
                  Building on the software archival workshop, I would like to see a detailed catweasel demo that includes how to build the PC to support it.

                  Jim

                  On 2/19/2011 10:20 AM, Dan Roganti wrote:  



                  On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 1:12 AM, Evan Koblentz <evan@...> wrote:
                  There's not much to report on the workshops front.  Vince moved west,
                  and nobody else volunteered to lead a workshop.  "Leading" would mean
                  not just teaching, but also arranging the logistics, re: get the parts, etc.

                  I was worried about that too.
                  Have you tried to get Jim Brain
                  He has great stuff too, for Commodore, except I think most of his products are assembled.

                   

                  What I propose instead of workshops are some introductory how-to
                  classes.  For ex., "8-bit Microcomputer Evaluation"; "S-100 Testing and
                  Usage"; "DEC Minicomputers For Dummies".  I definitely see us charging
                  extra for these classes.  The classes could run for a couple of hours
                  and be limited to, say, 10 people.  That way the students can gather
                  around the teacher and really learn something.

                  I have one idea that I can offer for a workshop, it's not really a kit, just another retro hack project I had in mind. How about something simple such as "Build Your Own Transistor Logic circuit". I have a large bag full of these NOS vintage transistors, the sort you find on the old 60's minicomputers - never been used. I sorted some of them and they are perfect for wiring your own Transistor Logic cards, the kind you see on the original PDP-8. I just have to find a generic experimenter board that's not too big - I'm hoping to find one with an edge connector, just like on the PDP-8. That one I was looking for recently, 22/44pin card is way to big for this - I have to find something with less pins.

                  Then you can decide on what to make, either your own Full Adder circuit, Flip-Flop circuit, etc. I have the schematics already, they just pick one out and start wiring. The parts are simple, a couple of transistors, few resistors, and a couple of LEDs. It would be all point to point wiring - no PCB - just like the early days. So you need some soldering experience, it's not entirely for kids - but kids learn fast - I did this when I was 12.

                  These wouldn't be deadend designs either, they can always pursue this further at home afterwards, to build some more, make their own backplan to plug these into and wire it to make their own computer.


                  Whether the classes run parallel to the lectures or parallel to the
                  exhibits, and whether they're one day or both days, are all details to
                  be determined.  It largely depends on what the instructors want to do.


                  I wouldn't want to miss the lectures either

                  =Dan

                • JeffreyB
                  ... Has anyone heard about or used this new device ? It is similar to Catweasel. http://www.kryoflux.com/
                  Message 8 of 19 , Feb 19, 2011
                    --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Jim Scheef <scheefj@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Building on the software archival workshop, I would like to see a
                    > detailed catweasel demo that includes how to build the PC to support it.

                    Has anyone heard about or used this new device ? It is similar to Catweasel. http://www.kryoflux.com/
                  • Evan Koblentz
                    ... Okay folks -- I talked with Dan tonight and this workshop is ON! It s scheduled for Sunday (May 15) at 10am. Cost is $40, limit 10 students, bring your
                    Message 9 of 19 , Feb 20, 2011
                      > I have one idea that I can offer for a workshop, it's not really a
                      > kit, just another retro hack project I had in mind. How about
                      > something simple such as "Build Your Own Transistor Logic circuit". I
                      > have a large bag full of these NOS vintage transistors, the sort you
                      > find on the old 60's minicomputers - never been used. I sorted some of
                      > them and they are perfect for wiring your own Transistor Logic cards,
                      > the kind you see on the original PDP-8. I just have to find a generic
                      > experimenter board that's not too big - I'm hoping to find one with an
                      > edge connector, just like on the PDP-8. That one I was looking for
                      > recently, 22/44pin card is way to big for this - I have to find
                      > something with less pins. Then you can decide on what to make, either
                      > your own Full Adder circuit, Flip-Flop circuit, etc. I have the
                      > schematics already, they just pick one out and start wiring. The parts
                      > are simple, a couple of transistors, few resistors, and a couple of
                      > LEDs. It would be all point to point wiring - no PCB - just like the
                      > early days. So you need some soldering experience, it's not entirely
                      > for kids - but kids learn fast - I did this when I was 12. These
                      > wouldn't be deadend designs either, they can always pursue this
                      > further at home afterwards, to build some more, make their own
                      > backplan to plug these into and wire it to make their own computer.

                      Okay folks -- I talked with Dan tonight and this workshop is ON! It's
                      scheduled for Sunday (May 15) at 10am. Cost is $40, limit 10 students,
                      bring your own tools.
                    • Dan Roganti
                      ... Please update the page with, All proceeds donated to the Museum http://www.vintage.org/2011/east/workshop.php?action=select&id=127
                      Message 10 of 19 , Feb 22, 2011
                        On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 2:17 AM, Evan Koblentz <evan@...> wrote:

                        Okay folks -- I talked with Dan tonight and this workshop is ON!  It's
                        scheduled for Sunday (May 15) at 10am.  Cost is $40, limit 10 students,
                        bring your own tools.



                        Please update the page with,
                        "All proceeds donated to the Museum"
                        http://www.vintage.org/2011/east/workshop.php?action=select&id=127


                      • Bob Schwier
                        Should you not include a tool list? What is the ideal minimum tool kit in the don t leave home without mode? bs From: Dan Roganti To:
                        Message 11 of 19 , Feb 22, 2011
                          Should you not include a tool list?
                          What is the ideal minimum tool kit in the don't leave home without mode?
                          bs



                          From: Dan Roganti <ragooman@...>
                          To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                          Cc:
                          Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 11:24 AM
                          Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] VCF hands-on classes update





                          On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 2:17 AM, Evan Koblentz <evan@...> wrote:


                          >Okay folks -- I talked with Dan tonight and this workshop is ON! It's
                          >>scheduled for Sunday (May 15) at 10am. Cost is $40, limit 10 students,
                          >>bring your own tools.
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          Please update the page with,
                          "All proceeds donated to the Museum"
                          http://www.vintage.org/2011/east/workshop.php?action=select&id=127
                        • Evan Koblentz
                          Good idea. I suggest a hammer, duct tape, and TNT. ... From: Bob Schwier Sender: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 22 Feb
                          Message 12 of 19 , Feb 22, 2011
                            Good idea.

                            I suggest a hammer, duct tape, and TNT.

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Bob Schwier <schwepes2002@...>
                            Sender: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 08:58:25
                            To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com<midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com>
                            Reply-To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] VCF hands-on classes update

                            Should you not include a tool list?
                            What is the ideal minimum tool kit in the don't leave home without mode?
                            bs



                            From: Dan Roganti <ragooman@...>
                            To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                            Cc:
                            Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 11:24 AM
                            Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] VCF hands-on classes update





                            On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 2:17 AM, Evan Koblentz <evan@...> wrote:


                            >Okay folks -- I talked with Dan tonight and this workshop is ON! It's
                            >>scheduled for Sunday (May 15) at 10am. Cost is $40, limit 10 students,
                            >>bring your own tools.
                            >
                            >
                            >

                            Please update the page with,
                            "All proceeds donated to the Museum"
                            http://www.vintage.org/2011/east/workshop.php?action=select&id=127









                            ------------------------------------

                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                          • Dan Roganti
                            ... I swear if the Homeland Security shows up, you re gonna regret it :) I d like to see my kid graduate this year. ... Well, we certainly don t expect a need
                            Message 13 of 19 , Feb 22, 2011
                              On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 12:02 PM, Evan Koblentz <evan@...> wrote:
                              Good idea.

                              I suggest a hammer, duct tape, and TNT.

                              I swear if the Homeland Security shows up, you're gonna regret it :)
                              I'd like to see my kid graduate this year.
                               

                              From: Bob Schwier <schwepes2002@...>

                              Should you not include a tool list?
                              What is the ideal minimum tool kit in the don't leave home without mode?
                              bs


                              Well, we certainly don't expect a need for a Surface Mount Soldering Station ;)
                              ------------------------------------------------------------------
                              Tool List:
                               - Pencil Tip Soldering Iron ***
                               - Solder
                               - Cutters
                               - Needle Nose pliers
                               - Wire Strippers

                              Optional:
                              These are tools that might be helpful.
                              One is already available from the Instructor.
                              And will have to be shared

                               - Desoldering Iron
                               - Circuit board Holder

                              Questions are welcome for any suggestions about where to get Tools
                              ------------------------------------------------------------------

                              ***This is important, I was had a workshop for building a Microcontroller bd and some retired guy brought in a huge woodburner lookalike soldering iron :)

                              =Dan

                            • Bill Degnan
                              Dan, The type of solder should be listed. I also use a magnifying glass a lot, I think a good optional item. Bill Degnan
                              Message 14 of 19 , Feb 22, 2011
                                Dan,

                                The type of solder should be listed. I also use a magnifying glass a lot,
                                I think a good optional item.

                                Bill Degnan

                                > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                > *Tool List*:
                                > - Pencil Tip Soldering Iron ***
                                > - Solder
                                > - Cutters
                                > - Needle Nose pliers
                                > - Wire Strippers
                                >
                                > *Optional: *
                                > These are tools that might be helpful.
                                > One is already available from the Instructor.
                                > And will have to be shared
                                >
                                > - Desoldering Iron
                                > - Circuit board Holder
                                >
                              • Dan Roganti
                                If anyone mentions RoHS, they should be banned from the List ;) ... *Tool List*: - Pencil Tip Soldering Iron *** - Solder, [suggested:Kester #44 Rosin Core
                                Message 15 of 19 , Feb 22, 2011
                                  If anyone mentions RoHS, they should be banned from the List ;)


                                  ------------------------------------
                                  Tool List:
                                   - Pencil Tip Soldering Iron ***
                                   - Solder, [suggested:Kester #44 Rosin Core Solder, 60/40 Tin/Lead Alloy, max.dia.0.062"]
                                   - Cutters
                                   - Needle Nose pliers
                                   - Wire Strippers

                                  Optional:
                                  These are tools that might be helpful.
                                  One is already available from the Instructor.
                                  And will have to be shared

                                   - Desoldering Iron
                                   - Circuit board Holder
                                   - Magnifier

                                  Questions are welcome for any suggestions about where to get Tools
                                  ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  ***This is important, I was had a workshop for building a Microcontroller bd and some retired guy brought in a huge woodburner lookalike soldering iron :)

                                • Mike Loewen
                                  ... I used to keep a small sledge hammer on my workbench. When anyone asked what it was for, I d tell them it was a salesman adjustment tool . Mike Loewen
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Feb 22, 2011
                                    On Tue, 22 Feb 2011, Evan Koblentz wrote:

                                    > I suggest a hammer, duct tape, and TNT.

                                    I used to keep a small sledge hammer on my workbench. When anyone
                                    asked what it was for, I'd tell them it was a "salesman adjustment tool".


                                    Mike Loewen mloewen@...
                                    Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                                  • Dan Roganti
                                    ... And it s in the Guide to Electronics Troublshooting I m sure you ve seen this, it s old, I have the flowchart at home One of the steps is, brandish a
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Feb 22, 2011
                                      On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Mike Loewen <mloewen@...> wrote:
                                      On Tue, 22 Feb 2011, Evan Koblentz wrote:

                                      > I suggest a hammer, duct tape, and TNT.

                                         I used to keep a small sledge hammer on my workbench.  When anyone
                                      asked what it was for, I'd tell them it was a "salesman adjustment tool".


                                      And it's in the Guide to Electronics Troublshooting
                                      I'm sure you've seen this, it's old, I have the flowchart at home
                                      One of the steps is, brandish a Hammer at the equipment to intimidate it.
                                      But I can't find it online.


                                    • Gene Buckle
                                      ... A co-worker once asked me, Why does always work when you come over here and try it? I replied, Because it knows I know how to kill it. ... g. --
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Feb 22, 2011
                                        On Tue, 22 Feb 2011, Dan Roganti wrote:

                                        > On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Mike Loewen <mloewen@...>wrote:
                                        >
                                        >> On Tue, 22 Feb 2011, Evan Koblentz wrote:
                                        >>
                                        >>> I suggest a hammer, duct tape, and TNT.
                                        >>
                                        >> I used to keep a small sledge hammer on my workbench. When anyone
                                        >> asked what it was for, I'd tell them it was a "salesman adjustment tool".
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        > And it's in the Guide to Electronics Troublshooting
                                        > I'm sure you've seen this, it's old, I have the flowchart at home
                                        > One of the steps is, brandish a Hammer at the equipment to intimidate it.
                                        > But I can't find it online.
                                        >
                                        A co-worker once asked me, "Why does <foo> always work when you come over
                                        here and try it?" I replied, "Because it knows I know how to kill it."

                                        :)

                                        g.

                                        --
                                        Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
                                        http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
                                        http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project

                                        ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
                                        A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
                                        http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!

                                        Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
                                        minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
                                        holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
                                        by the clean end.
                                      • Dan Roganti
                                        Evan, I added one more item to the Optional List, Multimeter Please edit this list on the workshop page. ... Tool List: - Pencil Tip Soldering Iron *** -
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Feb 24, 2011
                                          Evan,

                                          I added one more item to the Optional List, Multimeter
                                          Please edit this list on the workshop page.
                                          ------------------------------------
                                          Tool List:
                                           - Pencil Tip Soldering Iron ***
                                           - Solder[suggested:Kester #44 Rosin Core Solder, 60/40 Tin/Lead Alloy, max.dia.0.062"]
                                           - Wire Cutters
                                           - Needle Nose pliers
                                           - Wire Strippers

                                          Optional:
                                          These are additional tools which you can bring.
                                          One is already available from the Instructor.
                                          These will have to be shared

                                           - Multimeter
                                           - Desoldering Iron
                                           - Circuit board Holder
                                           - Magnifier

                                          Questions are welcome for any suggestions about where to get Tools
                                          ------------------------------------------------------------------

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