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Proposed NJ law may impact our hobby

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  • Kelly D. Leavitt
    The Electronic Waste Management Act bans the disposal of televisions and all personal or portable computers - including desktop, notebook and laptop computers,
    Message 1 of 29 , Oct 27, 2010
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      The Electronic Waste Management Act bans the disposal of televisions and all personal or portable computers - including desktop, notebook and laptop computers, as well as computer monitors - in the regular waste stream beginning Jan. 1, 2011. Currently in comment phase.

      -----------------------

      IMMEDIATE RELEASE

      Oct. 26, 2010

      Contact: Lawrence Hajna (609) 984-1795

      Lawrence Ragonese (609) 292-2994

       

      DEP ENGAGES PUBLIC IN DEVELOPMENT OF E-WASTE RECYCLING RULES

       

      (10/P118) TRENTON - In the interest of transparency and engaging public involvement on important environmental issues, the Department of Environmental Protection is soliciting preliminary comments on rules the department has drafted for development of a statewide system of recycling of computers and TVs generated as waste by consumers.

      "Recycling is a priority of the DEP, and getting more of this electronic material out of the waste stream is important to that effort,'' Commissioner Bob Martin said.

      "Because of the great deal of public interest and the significant increase in the generation of this type of waste in recent years, the DEP is going above and beyond its normal rulemaking process by giving the public, environmental advocates, businesses, and manufacturers of covered electronic devices an opportunity to provide comments before we formally propose regulations."

      The Electronic Waste Management Act bans the disposal of televisions and all personal or portable computers - including desktop, notebook and laptop computers, as well as computer monitors - in the regular waste stream beginning Jan. 1, 2011. It requires manufacturers of these devices to establish and finance a free system for collecting and recycling this waste, known as electronic waste or e-waste.

      The law does not cover cell phones, DVD players, VCRs, game consoles or electronic devices such as radios or TVs found in automobiles, although some county and municipal programs, nonprofit community service agencies, and businesses that sell electronic devices do collect these.

      Electronic waste is growing two to three times faster than any other component of the waste stream because of the high turnover in consumer purchases of electronic devices, according to the federal Environmental Protection Agency. Electronic waste contains toxic materials such as lead, mercury, nickel and cadmium that can end up in landfills or solid waste incinerators if not recycled.

      The DEP anticipates that manufacturers will develop collection programs through partnerships with county and municipal governments. Currently all of New Jersey's counties and more than 180 municipalities have e-waste collection and recycling programs.

      The DEP has proposed draft regulations that set up a registration system for manufacturers of electronic devices covered by the law as well as the requirements for the development of required manufacturer collection and recycling plans.

      The draft regulations establish methodologies for the department to use to determine market shares for television manufacturers and return shares based on weight for other covered electronic devices for the purposes of apportioning responsibility for program costs.

      To read the draft rules, view a list of e-waste recycling facilities and learn more about e-waste, visit: www.nj.gov/dep/dshw/recycling/Electronic_Waste/index.html

      The DEP will accept comments on the draft rules until Nov. 15. Comments may be sent by e-mail to ecycle@.... The DEP will review those comments and publish a formal rule proposal, which will trigger a 60-day formal public comment period, during which a public hearing may be scheduled.
    • Bob Applegate
      ... I ll have to speed up my disposal of old Pentium machines and CRTs at home. Hopefully we don t head towards the European RoHS standards for electronics.
      Message 2 of 29 , Oct 27, 2010
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        > The Electronic Waste Management Act bans the disposal of televisions and
        > all personal or portable computers - including desktop, notebook and
        > laptop computers, as well as computer monitors - in the regular waste
        > stream beginning Jan. 1, 2011. Currently in comment phase.

        I'll have to speed up my disposal of old Pentium machines and CRTs at home.

        Hopefully we don't head towards the European RoHS standards for
        electronics. People are still trying to figure out problems related to
        no-lead soldering.

        However, there are businesses in Europe that specialize in recycling of
        old electronics, so if someone finds a friend at one of those places, they
        can pick out all the good stuff before it gets processed :)

        BOb
      • Bill Degnan
        Bill Degnan ... and ... home. ... It would not be a crime to hold onto old tech, just not to throw it out with the trash so this is good for the hobby. We
        Message 3 of 29 , Oct 27, 2010
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          Bill Degnan

          -------- Original Message --------
          > From: "Bob Applegate" <bob@...>
          > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 9:13 AM
          > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Proposed NJ law may impact our hobby
          >
          > > The Electronic Waste Management Act bans the disposal of televisions
          and
          > > all personal or portable computers - including desktop, notebook and
          > > laptop computers, as well as computer monitors - in the regular waste
          > > stream beginning Jan. 1, 2011. Currently in comment phase.
          >
          > I'll have to speed up my disposal of old Pentium machines and CRTs at
          home.
          >

          It would not be a crime to hold onto old tech, just not to throw it out
          with the trash so this is good for the hobby. We should all be taking our
          old tech to the recycling center now, regardless of the government - it's
          the green thing to do. If anything, I could see how people will hold onto
          systems now that they cannot as easily discard them, or take them to a
          recycling center where there's at least a chance that historical items will
          be picked by an attentive employee for resale/re-use.

          Bill
        • Ray Sills
          When I lived in NJ, my town, East Brunswick, had a very active electronics recycling program. The town had a recycling center at one end of the town, and
          Message 4 of 29 , Oct 27, 2010
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            When I lived in NJ, my town, East Brunswick, had a very active
            electronics recycling program. The town had a "recycling center" at
            one end of the town, and whenever I had something to take there, I'd
            "just look" at the stuff in the bin. Sometimes there were
            interesting items. Managed to salvage a plain old PS2 keyboard
            (needed for a ham radio project) that way. The center is open 8-4, M-
            Sat.

            73 de Ray
            On Oct 27, 2010, at 9:36 AM, Bill Degnan wrote:

            > Bill Degnan
            >
            > -------- Original Message --------
            >> From: "Bob Applegate" <bob@...>
            >> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 9:13 AM
            >> To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
            >> Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Proposed NJ law may impact our hobby
            >>
            >>> The Electronic Waste Management Act bans the disposal of televisions
            > and
            >>> all personal or portable computers - including desktop, notebook and
            >>> laptop computers, as well as computer monitors - in the regular
            >>> waste
            >>> stream beginning Jan. 1, 2011. Currently in comment phase.
            >>
            >> I'll have to speed up my disposal of old Pentium machines and CRTs at
            > home.
            >>
            >
            > It would not be a crime to hold onto old tech, just not to throw it
            > out
            > with the trash so this is good for the hobby. We should all be
            > taking our
            > old tech to the recycling center now, regardless of the government
            > - it's
            > the green thing to do. If anything, I could see how people will
            > hold onto
            > systems now that they cannot as easily discard them, or take them to a
            > recycling center where there's at least a chance that historical
            > items will
            > be picked by an attentive employee for resale/re-use.
            >
            > Bill
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
          • Christian Liendo
            I think this is a good thing. #1 It will not affect people who keep old technology. This is not like the proposed Japanese law forcing people to discard old
            Message 5 of 29 , Oct 27, 2010
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              I think this is a good thing.

              #1 It will not affect people who keep old technology. This is not like the proposed Japanese law forcing people to discard old technology.

              #2 I find this a good idea because people take their machines (even good vintage computers) and toss them in the garbage. Now they will go to recyclers who are probably more knowledgeable and more likely to save real vintage equipment. In fact I see items for sale from current recyclers.

              So I don't see how this will affect our hobby..
              Also now with China no longer shipping rare earth metals. There should soon be a larger demand to recycle them from older electronics

              http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/05/business/global/05recycle.html?_r=2
            • Kelly D. Leavitt
              Why this may not be a good thing? The last state to implement this (CA) has some really strange standards and policies. If you have more than 5 computers on
              Message 6 of 29 , Oct 27, 2010
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                Why this may not be a good thing?

                The last state to implement this (CA) has some really strange standards and policies. If you have more than 5 computers on site and you are not a company, then you might have to be a registered waste disposal facility or a licensed recycler. Note that these are informal policies, not official rules. That means they're enforced sporadically, and very hard to fight if you are stuck on the wrong end.

                Now can you see the impact this MIGHT have on us? I have more than 5 computers in my LIVING ROOM.

                Kelly
              • Christian Liendo
                I know people in California with racks in their houses that have more than 5 computers In fact I know a guy in NJ with the same. I am going though the proposal
                Message 7 of 29 , Oct 27, 2010
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                  I know people in California with racks in their houses that have more than 5 computers

                  In fact I know a guy in NJ with the same.

                  I am going though the proposal pdf.... I am at work so I can't spend a lot of time, but so far it's a lot of definitions of what things are.

                  Definitaion of Consumer
                  “Consumer” means a person, other than a business concern, who purchases a covered electronic device in a retail sale. [Page 5]

                  Definition of Retail Sale
                  “Retail sale” means the sale of covered electronic devices through sales outlets, via the Internet, mail order, or other means, whether or not the retailer has a physical presence in this State. [Page 8]



                  --- On Wed, 10/27/10, Kelly D. Leavitt <kelly@...> wrote:
                  The last state to implement this (CA) has some really strange standards and policies. If you have more than 5 computers on site and you are not a company, then you might have to be a registered waste disposal facility or a licensed recycler. Note that these are informal policies, not official rules. That means they're enforced sporadically, and very hard to fight if you are stuck on the wrong end.
                • Kelly D. Leavitt
                  Chris: We re a regulatory training company. These are not written rules, but policies and procedures that inspectors and enforcement officials follow. We deal
                  Message 8 of 29 , Oct 27, 2010
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                    Chris:
                    We're a regulatory training company. These are not written rules, but policies and procedures that inspectors and enforcement officials follow. We deal with one or two calls about the CA issues every month. It is the discretion of the inspector as to the details of who is what. Collectors are not specifically exempted and if your "collection" looks like a pile of junk it can cause you many problems (including fines). In one specific instance a "collector" had several computers that were damaged in an office fire. He was trying to refurbish them. A neighbor got into a beef with him and reported him to the Cal/EPA. He was categorized as running an unlicensed disposal facility. This is turning into quite a mess for him.

                    Kelly

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Christian Liendo
                    Sent: Wed 10/27/2010 11:06 AM
                    To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                    Cc:
                    Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Proposed NJ law may impact our hobby




                    I know people in California with racks in their houses that have more than 5 computers

                    In fact I know a guy in NJ with the same.

                    I am going though the proposal pdf.... I am at work so I can't spend a lot of time, but so far it's a lot of definitions of what things are.

                    Definitaion of Consumer
                    “Consumer” means a person, other than a business concern, who purchases a covered electronic device in a retail sale. [Page 5]

                    Definition of Retail Sale
                    “Retail sale” means the sale of covered electronic devices through sales outlets, via the Internet, mail order, or other means, whether or not the retailer has a physical presence in this State. [Page 8]

                    --- On Wed, 10/27/10, Kelly D. Leavitt <kelly@... <mailto:kelly%40catcorner.org> > wrote:
                    The last state to implement this (CA) has some really strange standards and policies. If you have more than 5 computers on site and you are not a company, then you might have to be a registered waste disposal facility or a licensed recycler. Note that these are informal policies, not official rules. That means they're enforced sporadically, and very hard to fight if you are stuck on the wrong end.
                  • Dan Roganti
                    ... It states at the very top of that pdf this is a waste disposal act. Why would they be involved with hobbyists. ... Well that means then any hobbyist can be
                    Message 9 of 29 , Oct 27, 2010
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                      On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Kelly D. Leavitt <kelly@...> wrote:
                      Chris:
                       We're a regulatory training company. These are not written rules, but policies and procedures that inspectors and enforcement officials follow.

                      It states at the very top of that pdf this is a waste disposal act. Why would they be involved with hobbyists.

                       
                      We deal with one or two calls about the CA issues every month. It is the discretion of the inspector as to the details of who is what.


                       Well that means then any hobbyist can be subjected to this, even TV/Radio collectors. That cannot be the scope of this policy. Since when are Hobbyists considered a junk yard ? There's is over 50yrs of precedant that will override this. It's one thing if your house is the next example of the 'Hoarders' TV episode but come on.

                       
                      Collectors are not specifically exempted and if your "collection" looks like a pile of junk it can cause you many problems (including fines). In one specific instance a "collector" had several computers that were damaged in an office fire. He was trying to refurbish them. A neighbor got into a beef with him and reported him to the Cal/EPA. He was categorized as running an unlicensed disposal facility. This is turning into quite a mess for him.


                      I think he needs a better lawyer, because a >hobbyist< should not/cannot be confused as a disposal facility - that's absurd. Hopefully the public meeting will allow this policy to elaborate the differences between hobbyists. It's one thing to have a pile of junk on your lawn/backyard which can violate many city ordinances, but to confuse one's status as a hobbyist is inexcusable. BTW, their definition of collector in that doc is misleading since it's in the context of waste mgmt.

                      =Dan
                      --http://www.vintagecomputer.net/ragooman/
                    • Bill Degnan
                      ... be ... which ... hobbyist ... misleading ... I am sure if you don t have derelict computers in open sight of the public you re fine. We should assume the
                      Message 10 of 29 , Oct 27, 2010
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                        > >
                        > I think he needs a better lawyer, because a >hobbyist< should not/cannot
                        be
                        > confused as a disposal facility - that's absurd. Hopefully the public
                        > meeting will allow this policy to elaborate the differences between
                        > hobbyists. It's one thing to have a pile of junk on your lawn/backyard
                        which
                        > can violate many city ordinances, but to confuse one's status as a
                        hobbyist
                        > is inexcusable. BTW, their definition of collector in that doc is
                        misleading
                        > since it's in the context of waste mgmt.
                        >


                        I am sure if you don't have derelict computers in open sight of the public
                        you're fine. We should assume the same laws and precendents for old car
                        collectors would apply to old tech collectors.

                        bd
                      • Kelly D. Leavitt
                        I think he needs a better lawyer, because a hobbyist
                        Message 11 of 29 , Oct 27, 2010
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                          I think he needs a better lawyer, because a >hobbyist< should not/cannot be confused as a disposal facility - that's absurd. Hopefully the public meeting will allow this policy to elaborate the differences between hobbyists. It's one thing to have a pile of junk on your lawn/backyard which can violate many city ordinances, but to confuse one's status as a hobbyist is inexcusable. BTW, their definition of collector in that doc is misleading since it's in the context of waste mgmt.

                          =Dan


                          But that's the thing. It's harder than you think for an inspecting official to delineate where a "hobbyist" ends and a waste facility begins. I don't know about you, but I can't afford more than a few minutes of time from a lawyer that specializes in environmental law. That's why we need to think about this now.

                          I'm also not saying this anything bad will result from this action in NJ, just that there may be issues and we may want to comment. Overall, recycling is an OK thing. It's may not be as green as a lot think, but it is at least better than dumping everyting into a landfill.

                          A lot of the electronics we recycle are dealt with properly. However, sometimes they end up in places like this:
                          http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/10/video-chinas-toxic-wastelands-of-consumer-electronics-revealed/

                          Let's hope that we can prevent stuff like this with reasonable recycling policies. I know of one recycler down the road from me that just grinds everything up (including cases) and ships it by the container to China. All to the highest bidder.
                        • Kelly D. Leavitt
                          ... In this part of NJ, all cars visible (even under cover) on your property must be registered (with valid plates) and insured. These are local (town by town)
                          Message 12 of 29 , Oct 27, 2010
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                            > We should assume the same laws and precendents for old car
                            > collectors would apply to old tech collectors.

                            In this part of NJ, all cars visible (even under cover) on your property must be registered (with valid plates) and insured. These are local (town by town) land use ordinaces. Failure to do so can result in heavy fines.

                            In some developments you can't even have a for sale sign on a car in your own driveway. These are typically restrictive covenants on your deed.
                          • Mike Hatch
                            As a collector across the pond here in the UK, I find our laws rather like that proposed by NJ have made NO difference to my collecting or disposal of old
                            Message 13 of 29 , Oct 27, 2010
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                              As a collector across the pond here in the UK, I find our laws rather like that proposed by NJ have made NO difference to my collecting or disposal of old electronics, it may even have helped in finding "new" old stuff, people now use channels like FreeCycle and CraigList rather than dumping the kit.

                              We have had the WEEE (The Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment Directive) regulations for a couple of years now, it forces manufacturers and retailers to have a returns channel for consumers to be able return their old electronics and electricals to the point of origin for correct disposal when purchasing new kit, most times free or minor cost. WEEE covers anything electrical, including all forms of batteries.

                              Also our local councils usually run recycling centers where the public can return old electronics and electricals for free, but if you cannot shift it, most councils will come and get it, again usually for free.

                              In my view it is a positive improvement and has not been difficult to adhere to.

                              As for the use of lead solder, again no problems, it is still readily available but can only be used for the repair of older pre-non lead regulation equipment, so all of my vintage stuff can still be worked on and repaired with impunity. New builds or repair of new equipment must be with non-leaded solder, no problem.

                              I can't speak for Europe, their regs are a bit different, but places like Germany have been doing this for some years.

                              Mike.
                            • Christian Liendo
                              I have looked though this so far and I don t see anything that seems restrictive. Then again I am not a lawyer, no do I play one on TV. With more eyes looking
                              Message 14 of 29 , Oct 27, 2010
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                                I have looked though this so far and I don't see anything that seems restrictive. Then again I am not a lawyer, no do I play one on TV.

                                With more eyes looking at it someone may find a line that could be a problem.

                                BTW: Kelly thanks for posting this because you know there may be something that I am missing that may in fact in here. So far it looks good.
                              • Systems Glitch
                                Same here in Capitaland, NY...at least in some localities. I m aware of at least one old radio hobbyist who said, after getting in an argument with a neighbor,
                                Message 15 of 29 , Oct 27, 2010
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                                  Same here in Capitaland, NY...at least in some localities. I'm aware of at least one old radio hobbyist who said, after getting in an argument with a neighbor, the city paid him a visit to ask about the "hazardous electronics waste" he was storing in his shed.

                                  You're also not allowed to park a commercial vehicle even semi-permanently in the street. So if you're a dump truck owner/operator and you live in a house that only has street parking, you're SOL.

                                  A lot of these seemingly for-the-greater-good regulations do have negative impact when the law is misunderstood by authorities enforcing it or abused by those looking to do others harm. Of course, that can be said of most laws. I'd fully support a law that plainly stated, "no one is allowed to put electronics in the municipal waste."

                                  --Jonathan

                                  On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 12:20:26 -0400
                                  "Kelly D. Leavitt" <kelly@...> wrote:

                                  > > We should assume the same laws and precendents for old car
                                  > > collectors would apply to old tech collectors.
                                  >
                                  > In this part of NJ, all cars visible (even under cover) on your property must be registered (with valid plates) and insured. These are local (town by town) land use ordinaces. Failure to do so can result in heavy fines.
                                  >
                                  > In some developments you can't even have a for sale sign on a car in your own driveway. These are typically restrictive covenants on your deed.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Bob Applegate
                                  ... How do you define electronics? One person s old flashlight is another person s electronics. How about an LED flashlight? That uses a semiconductor. I ve
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Oct 27, 2010
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                                    > A lot of these seemingly for-the-greater-good regulations do have negative
                                    > impact when the law is misunderstood by authorities enforcing it or abused
                                    > by those looking to do others harm. Of course, that can be said of most
                                    > laws. I'd fully support a law that plainly stated, "no one is allowed to
                                    > put electronics in the municipal waste."

                                    How do you define electronics? One person's old flashlight is another
                                    person's electronics. How about an LED flashlight? That uses a
                                    semiconductor.

                                    I've put aluminum tubing into recycling (yesterday, as a matter of fact)
                                    but the recycling crew refused to take it even though our township rules
                                    clearly state that aluminum is to be recycled. My assumption is that they
                                    assumed it was steel.

                                    And yes, I've dealt a lot with the WEEE and RoHS rules at another company.
                                    The leadless solder grows whiskers which can eventually cause
                                    shorts/failures in the circuit, which is why there are so many exemptions
                                    being allowed. It was a great rule for the environment, but didn't work
                                    all that well so a lot of loopholes were put into place just to get around
                                    the issues. Rules without the knowledge to understand the impact of them
                                    are often bad.

                                    It'll take some court cases for the NJ rule to get better defined.
                                    Hopefully it won't be my lawyer helping with the definition ;-)

                                    Bob
                                  • system@great-escape.tmesis.com
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Oct 27, 2010
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                                      Christian Liendo <christian_liendo@...> writes:

                                      >I know people in California with racks in their houses that have more than =
                                      >5 computers
                                      >
                                      >In fact I know a guy in NJ with the same.

                                      :)
                                    • Christian Liendo
                                      I know,, I don t want to hear the complaints.. I know someone will want this.. It s in DEEP long Island.. http://longisland.craigslist.org/sys/2028169994.html
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Oct 27, 2010
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                                        I know,, I don't want to hear the complaints.. I know someone will want this..

                                        It's in DEEP long Island..

                                        http://longisland.craigslist.org/sys/2028169994.html

                                      • Evan Koblentz
                                        ... Let s not turn this thread into a cctalk-esque ramble. :)
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Oct 27, 2010
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                                          >>> A lot of these seemingly for-the-greater-good regulations do have negative impact when the law is misunderstood by authorities enforcing it or abused by those looking to do others harm. Of course, that can be said of most laws.

                                          Let's not turn this thread into a cctalk-esque ramble. :)
                                        • Bill Degnan
                                          If anyone gets this let me know I have software and if you bring the system to InfoAge for the party, or my office whenever I can make copies, etc. Bill Degnan
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Oct 27, 2010
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                                            If anyone gets this let me know I have software and if you bring the system
                                            to InfoAge for the party, or my office whenever I can make copies, etc.

                                            Bill Degnan

                                            -------- Original Message --------
                                            > From: "Christian Liendo" <christian_liendo@...>
                                            > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 3:27 PM
                                            > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Subject: [midatlanticretro] Xerox 820 on Craigslist $75
                                            >
                                            > I know,, I don't want to hear the complaints.. I know someone will want
                                            this..
                                            >
                                            > It's in DEEP long Island..
                                            >
                                            > http://longisland.craigslist.org/sys/2028169994.html
                                          • Bill Degnan
                                            By the way, thanks Christian. This is worth posting. I am going tonight to pick up a PDP 11/34 with cabinet and twin RL01 drives that I got from craigslist.
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Oct 27, 2010
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                                              By the way, thanks Christian. This is worth posting.

                                              I am going tonight to pick up a PDP 11/34 with cabinet and twin RL01 drives
                                              that I got from craigslist. $150. I am surprised no one saw that. I just
                                              happened to see the listing, it's an older one and I emailed the guy on a
                                              whim. To my surprise it was still available.

                                              Bill Degnan

                                              -------- Original Message --------
                                              > From: "Christian Liendo" <christian_liendo@...>
                                              > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 3:27 PM
                                              > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: [midatlanticretro] Xerox 820 on Craigslist $75
                                              >
                                              > I know,, I don't want to hear the complaints.. I know someone will want
                                              this..
                                              >
                                              > It's in DEEP long Island..
                                              >
                                              > http://longisland.craigslist.org/sys/2028169994.html
                                            • Mike Loewen
                                              ... I hate you.... :-) Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Oct 27, 2010
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                                                On Wed, 27 Oct 2010, Bill Degnan wrote:

                                                > I am going tonight to pick up a PDP 11/34 with cabinet and twin RL01 drives
                                                > that I got from craigslist. $150. I am surprised no one saw that. I just
                                                > happened to see the listing, it's an older one and I emailed the guy on a
                                                > whim. To my surprise it was still available.

                                                I hate you.... :-)


                                                Mike Loewen mloewen@...
                                                Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                                              • RonK
                                                My questions is, Why didn t the Government see this coming, and plan for electronic recycling in advance? What really irked me was that the Digital TV
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Oct 27, 2010
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                                                  My questions is, "Why didn't the Government see this coming, and plan for electronic recycling in advance?"

                                                  What really irked me was that the Digital TV transition was in the works for ten years. Didn't any of our Government reps realize that when the transition day hit, that millions of TV's were going to get dumped? Yea, I know there were converter boxes made available, and cable and satellite are common, but the digital transition and the cost reduction of flat-screen and HD sets really put "a whole-lota-TVs" into the dumpsters. How 'bout a little "Planning Ahead", Government guys?
                                                • system@great-escape.tmesis.com
                                                  ... C mon. Your question is self-answering. Government. ... Not that many TVs were dumped; most of the TVs sold in the past several years were capable. Only
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Oct 28, 2010
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                                                    "RonK" <rkushnier@...> writes:

                                                    >My questions is, "Why didn't the Government see this coming, and plan for e=
                                                    >lectronic recycling in advance?"=20

                                                    C'mon. Your question is self-answering. Government.



                                                    >What really irked me was that the Digital TV transition was in the works fo=
                                                    >r ten years. Didn't any of our Government reps realize that when the transi=
                                                    >tion day hit, that millions of TV's were going to get dumped? Yea, I know t=
                                                    >here were converter boxes made available, and cable and satellite are commo=
                                                    >n, but the digital transition and the cost reduction of flat-screen and HD =
                                                    >sets really put "a whole-lota-TVs" into the dumpsters. How 'bout a little =

                                                    Not that many TVs were dumped; most of the TVs sold in the past several
                                                    years were capable. Only Grandmas and Grandpas watching reruns of "The
                                                    Golden Girls" on their old Philco portable (on a TV cart portable) with
                                                    rabbit ears would have been affected.

                                                    These laws, the one that spawned this thread, only lead to more illegal
                                                    dumping as people get entangled in the verbiage of them. Taxes on our
                                                    homes -- colloquially termed "permits" (if it smells like a tax, it's a
                                                    tax) -- are like this new law. People are flocking to their local Home
                                                    Depots and Lowes these days doing home renovation projects requiring the
                                                    application for a permit without ever doing so, and to cover up that they
                                                    have done any permit required improvements, they hide, illegally dump or
                                                    bury many materials that should be recycled. Don't think so? Drive in
                                                    the more rural areas of my town or down through "the barrens" and look in
                                                    the wooded areas just off the roadways at all of the trash -- electrical,
                                                    plumbing, furnaces and water heaters, roofing materials, asbestos siding,
                                                    etc. -- that's been put there by over-zealous government regulation and
                                                    permit taxes.



                                                    >"Planning Ahead", Government guys?

                                                    They do... to their re-election. Anything else they do is just to pass
                                                    the time until re-election campaigning and, more and more, that becomes
                                                    their full-time occupation.

                                                    Hold your nose on Tuesday and vote employing the GROIN-PAIN methodology!
                                                    Get Rid Of Incumbent Nitwit Politicians And Install New. Sorry, but if
                                                    anyone thinks the Dumborats or Repungnantcans do anything, you're fooling
                                                    yourselves. Oust the Ds with Rs and the Rs with Ds or some other party's
                                                    candidate not affilated with either, and continue to do so until they get
                                                    back to a "government of the people, by the people, for the people" or it
                                                    will "perish from the earth."

                                                    The solution isn't more Government; the problem is more Government!

                                                    The opposite of progress is Congress.

                                                    Brian, who's somewhere on the political spectrum between libertarianism
                                                    and total anarchy.
                                                  • Bob Schwier
                                                    It offered a twenty dollar coupon for forty dollar translation boxes. bs ... From: RonK Subject: [midatlanticretro] Re: Proposed NJ law
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Oct 28, 2010
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                                                      It offered a twenty dollar coupon for forty dollar translation boxes.
                                                      bs

                                                      --- On Wed, 10/27/10, RonK <rkushnier@...> wrote:

                                                      From: RonK <rkushnier@...>
                                                      Subject: [midatlanticretro] Re: Proposed NJ law may impact our hobby
                                                      To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 6:13 PM

                                                       



                                                      My questions is, "Why didn't the Government see this coming, and plan for electronic recycling in advance?"

                                                      What really irked me was that the Digital TV transition was in the works for ten years. Didn't any of our Government reps realize that when the transition day hit, that millions of TV's were going to get dumped? Yea, I know there were converter boxes made available, and cable and satellite are common, but the digital transition and the cost reduction of flat-screen and HD sets really put "a whole-lota-TVs" into the dumpsters. How 'bout a little "Planning Ahead", Government guys?


                                                    • Sridhar Ayengar
                                                      ... I would sue if they even *spoke* those words with me. Those words being spoken by a representative of my local government has a reasonable possibility of
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Oct 28, 2010
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                                                        Systems Glitch wrote:
                                                        > Same here in Capitaland, NY...at least in some localities. I'm aware
                                                        > of at least one old radio hobbyist who said, after getting in an
                                                        > argument with a neighbor, the city paid him a visit to ask about the
                                                        > "hazardous electronics waste" he was storing in his shed.

                                                        I would sue if they even *spoke* those words with me. "Those words
                                                        being spoken by a representative of my local government has a reasonable
                                                        possibility of doing me material harm by devaluing my collection."

                                                        Peace... Sridhar
                                                      • Christian Liendo
                                                        Did anyone ever contact this guy? The listing is still up http://longisland.craigslist.org/sys/2028169994.html
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Nov 2, 2010
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          Did anyone ever contact this guy? The listing is still up

                                                          http://longisland.craigslist.org/sys/2028169994.html
                                                        • Jason T
                                                          On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 12:19 PM, Christian Liendo ... Gone now?
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Nov 2, 2010
                                                          • 0 Attachment
                                                            On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 12:19 PM, Christian Liendo
                                                            <christian_liendo@...> wrote:
                                                            > Did anyone ever contact this guy? The listing is still up
                                                            >
                                                            > http://longisland.craigslist.org/sys/2028169994.html

                                                            Gone now?
                                                          • Christian Liendo
                                                            I guess it is gone now.. Someone here must have gotten it. ... Gone now?
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Nov 2, 2010
                                                            • 0 Attachment
                                                              I guess it is gone now.. Someone here must have gotten it.

                                                              --- On Tue, 11/2/10, Jason T <silent700@...> wrote:
                                                              Gone now?
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