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SGI & VCF [was] Pioneering and Obsolete [now] VCF and what qualifies

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  • Christian Liendo
    Bill, my question was not targeted to you but more to Evan and it was about his on topic discussion of the Audry. A while ago I wanted to bring a SGI to VCF
    Message 1 of 14 , Sep 28, 2010
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      Bill, my question was not targeted to you but more to Evan and it was about his "on topic" discussion of the Audry.

      A while ago I wanted to bring a SGI to VCF and was told it was not on topic. My argument was "Pioneering and Obsolete", the SGI workstations were pioneering and IRIX was dead at the time. I was still told no.

      Then the Audry is brought up and it is on topic because it is "Pioneering and Obsolete" so I ask again. Is SGI now a valid topic?
    • Bill Degnan
      Bill Degnan ... [now] VCF and what qualifies ... about his on topic discussion of the Audry. ... topic. My argument was Pioneering and Obsolete , the SGI
      Message 2 of 14 , Sep 28, 2010
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        Bill Degnan

        -------- Original Message --------
        > From: "Christian Liendo" <christian_liendo@...>
        > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 10:07 AM
        > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [midatlanticretro] SGI & VCF [was] Pioneering and Obsolete
        [now] VCF and what qualifies
        >
        > Bill, my question was not targeted to you but more to Evan and it was
        about his "on topic" discussion of the Audry.
        >
        > A while ago I wanted to bring a SGI to VCF and was told it was not on
        topic. My argument was "Pioneering and Obsolete", the SGI workstations were
        pioneering and IRIX was dead at the time. I was still told no.
        >
        > Then the Audry is brought up and it is on topic because it is "Pioneering
        and Obsolete" so I ask again. Is SGI now a valid topic?
        >

        For a long discussion, neither are on topic in this group, yet. Neither
        item would be on exibit in the museum, at least not yet.

        Both are to some extent historical though, so eventually both will be on
        topic if you accept the premise that some sort of minimum age of item is a
        pre-requisite of on-topicness. It's not enough to be historical. Some
        items

        The MARCH BOD should probably have a serious discussion about VCF and what
        this year is on-topic, maybe make a 5 year plan of some kind. Time marches
        on, vintage-computer.com just added a Pentium forum...

        Think of it like this

        Age of item points (in years)
        Plus historical-ness of item points (0-3 pts)
        Plus general consensus points (0-2 pts)
        Equals "on-topic score"

        Let's say as a general rule you need at least 25 points to be "on topic"

        Very subjective, but in general this allows for some variance in age and
        interest to make an item on topic.

        Bill
      • telmnstr@757.org
        ... Ooo how old of one do you have? Do you have an IRIS 1000/2000/3000? I used to be a huge SGI fanboy. Still have a full rack Onyx 2000, Indigo^2, Indigo, and
        Message 3 of 14 , Sep 28, 2010
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          > A while ago I wanted to bring a SGI to VCF and was told it was not on
          > topic. My argument was "Pioneering and Obsolete", the SGI workstations
          > were pioneering and IRIX was dead at the time. I was still told no.

          Ooo how old of one do you have? Do you have an IRIS 1000/2000/3000?

          I used to be a huge SGI fanboy. Still have a full rack Onyx 2000,
          Indigo^2, Indigo, and Octane.

          Gave away my deskside Onyx, and been through about every system from the
          4d/25 to modern.
        • Evan Koblentz
          ... A casual email response from me does not necessarily constitute any new official club policy. :) Here s an idea. You all know that I always compare our
          Message 4 of 14 , Sep 28, 2010
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            >>> Then the Audry is brought up and it is on topic because it is "Pioneering and Obsolete" so I ask again. Is SGI now a valid topic?

            A casual email response from me does not necessarily constitute any new official club policy. :)

            Here's an idea. You all know that I always compare our hobby to antique car collecting. I find the analogy works on every level, and it's something everyone who's not in our hobby can understand. Anyway: at old car shows, they usually have a "modern" category, for vehicles that aren't traditional antiques but are still unique somehow. In computers, that could mean an SGI or Audrey or (whatever), but not an ordinary PC. We can have such a category. We could make it even broader by just calling it "other". I get to decide what's allowed and what's not. :) (Chris: fear not; we just don't want anybody exhibiting AOL disks, 286s, etc.)
          • Christian Liendo
            I have an Indigo. It s amazing the architecture of the box. As for SGIs.. SGIs are not very popular. The original 68k based ones are hard to find, but any MIPS
            Message 5 of 14 , Sep 28, 2010
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              I have an Indigo. It's amazing the architecture of the box.

              As for SGIs.. SGIs are not very popular. The original 68k based ones are hard to find, but any MIPS based machine is easy. Heck you can get Octanes for like $100. They are very inexpensive right now. Unless you are into vintage 3D/VR nobody likes them. Few understand the significance of the machines. Mention OpenGL and people are like huh?

              I wanted to do a flight sim demo between two SGIs.. Back in the day SGIs had some early TCP/IP multiplayer demos like flightsim, bzflag and dog fight. They were vector based multiplayers. Something you didn't have on other platforms at the time. But it showed how fast the machines could render in real time over a TCP/IP Network. Back in 1995 that was amazing.

              Also Indys back in the day had video conferencing before other computers. I have some funny stories of what I did with a bunch of SGIs and my old company.




            • Evan Koblentz
              ... Erik s my friend, but that was absolutely the wrong decision in my opinion.
              Message 6 of 14 , Sep 28, 2010
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                >>> vintage-computer.com just added a Pentium forum...

                Erik's my friend, but that was absolutely the wrong decision in my opinion.
              • system@great-escape.tmesis.com
                ... I never thought the MIPS Rx000 anything to be a great architecture.
                Message 7 of 14 , Sep 28, 2010
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                  Christian Liendo <christian_liendo@...> writes:

                  >I have an Indigo. It's amazing the architecture of the box.

                  I never thought the MIPS Rx000 anything to be a great architecture.
                • Joe Giliberti
                  Keep in mind, bzflag has since been ported to Windows, Mac, Linux, BSD, etc. It has a fairly active set of servers, which I play a good bit Joe
                  Message 8 of 14 , Sep 28, 2010
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                    Keep in mind, bzflag has since been ported to Windows, Mac, Linux, BSD, etc. It has a fairly active set of servers, which I play a good bit

                    Joe

                    On 9/28/2010 11:14 AM, Christian Liendo wrote:
                    I have an Indigo. It's amazing the architecture of the box.

                    As for SGIs.. SGIs are not very popular. The original 68k based ones are hard to find, but any MIPS based machine is easy. Heck you can get Octanes for like $100. They are very inexpensive right now. Unless you are into vintage 3D/VR nobody likes them. Few understand the significance of the machines. Mention OpenGL and people are like huh?

                    I wanted to do a flight sim demo between two SGIs.. Back in the day SGIs had some early TCP/IP multiplayer demos like flightsim, bzflag and dog fight. They were vector based multiplayers. Something you didn't have on other platforms at the time. But it showed how fast the machines could render in real time over a TCP/IP Network. Back in 1995 that was amazing.

                    Also Indys back in the day had video conferencing before other computers. I have some funny stories of what I did with a bunch of SGIs and my old company.



                  • Christian Liendo
                    ... Yes, but we are talking 15 years ago. Compare 3D now and back then and now is 10^n- ininity better. Remember BZflag was originally written on SGIs for SGIs
                    Message 9 of 14 , Sep 28, 2010
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                      --- On Tue, 9/28/10, Joe Giliberti <lithium850@...> wrote:
                      >Keep in mind, bzflag has since been ported to Windows, Mac, Linux, BSD, etc. It has a fairly active set of servers, which I play a good bit

                      Yes, but we are talking 15 years ago. Compare 3D now and back then and now is 10^n->ininity better.
                      Remember BZflag was originally written on SGIs for SGIs

                      I wanted to show of Dogfight

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SGI_Dogfight



                      --- On Tue, 9/28/10, system@... <system@...> wrote:
                      > I never thought the MIPS Rx000 anything to be a great architecture.

                      I was thinking the whole box with graphics cards. The box itself...
                      Either way the MIPS architecture was good enough for the Playstation one, Nintendo 64, Playstation Portable, Many cisco routers, linksys routers, etc etc etc

                      The reality is that SGI contributed to computer history and well, I think it's on topic.
                    • system@great-escape.tmesis.com
                      ... You re a little loose with your term architecture when it comes to CPU systems. ;) FWIW, none of my Cisco gear has a MIPS chip. I d thought Cisco was a,
                      Message 10 of 14 , Sep 28, 2010
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                        Christian Liendo <christian_liendo@...> writes:

                        >> I never thought the MIPS Rx000 anything to be a great architecture.
                        >
                        >I was thinking the whole box with graphics cards. The box itself...
                        >Either way the MIPS architecture was good enough for the Playstation
                        >one, Nintendo 64, Playstation Portable, Many cisco routers, linksys
                        >routers, etc etc etc

                        You're a little "loose" with your term architecture when it comes to
                        CPU systems. ;)


                        FWIW, none of my Cisco gear has a MIPS chip. I'd thought Cisco was a,
                        primarily, Motorola consumer. However, I did find reference to a few
                        series with used MIPS and several with PowerPC. Learn something every
                        day. ;) I wonder if Cisco's choice is based on endian-ness.


                        I have one of these in service, still running for DECnet Phase V routing
                        and it has LAT and bridging software too.

                        DECbrouter 90 router (68030) processor (revision A) with 6144K/2048K
                        bytes of memory.
                        Processor board ID 00000000, with hardware revision 00000000
                        Bridging software.
                        SuperLAT software copyright 1990 by Meridian Technology Corp).
                        X.25 software, Version 2.0, NET2, BFE and GOSIP compliant.
                        TN3270 Emulation software (copyright 1994 by TGV Inc).
                        1 Ethernet/IEEE 802.3 interface.
                        2 Serial network interfaces.
                        32K bytes of non-volatile configuration memory.
                        8192K bytes of processor board System flash (Read ONLY)

                        ...and two of these...

                        Cisco 851 (MPC8272) processor (revision 0x200) with 59392K/6144K bytes
                        of memory.
                        Processor board ID FHK12102AAS
                        MPC8272 CPU Rev: Part Number 0xC, Mask Number 0x10
                        5 FastEthernet interfaces
                        128K bytes of non-volatile configuration memory.
                        20480K bytes of processor board System flash (Intel Strataflash)
                      • Bill Degnan
                        ... I look forward to your exhibit. Bill
                        Message 11 of 14 , Sep 28, 2010
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                          >
                          > I wanted to show of Dogfight
                          >
                          > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SGI_Dogfight
                          >


                          I look forward to your exhibit.
                          Bill
                        • telmnstr@757.org
                          cisco 4500 had mips r4k iirc from mobile
                          Message 12 of 14 , Sep 28, 2010
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                            cisco 4500 had mips r4k iirc

                            from mobile
                          • Jim Scheef
                            Didn t SGI sort of invent the 3D workstation? They are cool. I don t understand why we are circulating bits to engage in this discussion. A networked SGI
                            Message 13 of 14 , Sep 28, 2010
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                              Didn't SGI sort of invent the 3D workstation? They are cool. I don't understand why we are circulating bits to engage in this discussion. A networked SGI exhibit at VCF E might be enough to get me to try a computer game!

                              Jim

                              On 9/28/2010 3:37 PM, telmnstr@... wrote:
                               


                              cisco 4500 had mips r4k iirc

                              from mobile

                              _
                            • Sridhar Ayengar
                              ... The PowerPC thing actually happened much later. Cisco was *mostly* MIPS for quite a long time. And before that, 68k. Peace... Sridhar
                              Message 14 of 14 , Sep 29, 2010
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                                telmnstr@... wrote:
                                > cisco 4500 had mips r4k iirc

                                The PowerPC thing actually happened much later. Cisco was *mostly* MIPS
                                for quite a long time. And before that, 68k.

                                Peace... Sridhar
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