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Tandy 6000HD

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  • Mike Loewen
    I m having an awful time trying to get a good hard drive in my 6000HD. The best one I have is a ST-251-1, which low-level formats (maybe a half-dozen errors).
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 20, 2010
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      I'm having an awful time trying to get a good hard drive in my 6000HD.
      The best one I have is a ST-251-1, which low-level formats (maybe a
      half-dozen errors). I then boot from diskette and run 'xenix'. It asks
      me if I want to initialize the hard disk: yes. Have I initialized it with
      diskutil: yes. Is this a Model II: no. "Setting floppy drives to faster
      seek speeds".

      A this point, the floppy drive seeks a couple of times, then the floppy
      select light goes out for a bit, then the floppy accesses again and the
      floppy select light stays on. Under normal circumstances, the floppy
      select light would go out for a bit, then the installation would continue
      by extracting tar files. With my ST-251, the floppy select light stays on
      and nothing happens (for hours, even).

      Any ideas what might be happening? I don't have any other systems to
      test the hard drive.


      Mike Loewen mloewen@...
      Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
    • Bill Degnan
      Under similar circumstances I have found that it s the obvious...you have a physical defect on the drive. One thing you could try, is partition the drive at
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 20, 2010
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        Under similar circumstances I have found that it's the obvious...you have a
        physical defect on the drive. One thing you could try, is partition the
        drive at the cylinder level, up to the bad cylinder. You may have to use
        MS DOS tools to figure out exactly where the bad cylinder is. You may only
        end up with 4MB of space but you'll at least get something.

        Bill Degnan

        -------- Original Message --------
        > From: "Mike Loewen" <mloewen@...>
        > Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 7:14 PM
        > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [midatlanticretro] Tandy 6000HD
        >
        > I'm having an awful time trying to get a good hard drive in my 6000HD.
        > The best one I have is a ST-251-1, which low-level formats (maybe a
        > half-dozen errors). I then boot from diskette and run 'xenix'. It asks

        > me if I want to initialize the hard disk: yes. Have I initialized it
        with
        > diskutil: yes. Is this a Model II: no. "Setting floppy drives to faster

        > seek speeds".
        >
        > A this point, the floppy drive seeks a couple of times, then the
        floppy
        > select light goes out for a bit, then the floppy accesses again and the
        > floppy select light stays on. Under normal circumstances, the floppy
        > select light would go out for a bit, then the installation would continue

        > by extracting tar files. With my ST-251, the floppy select light stays
        on
        > and nothing happens (for hours, even).
        >
        > Any ideas what might be happening? I don't have any other systems to

        > test the hard drive.
        >
        >
        > Mike Loewen mloewen@...
        > Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • Kelly D. Leavitt
        I agree with Bill. I think that it is at this point that it is trying to write the file system (mkfs is running). I have a couple of different drives here.
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 20, 2010
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          I agree with Bill.
           
          I think that it is at this point that it is trying to write the file system (mkfs is running).
           
          I have a couple of different drives here. I'll see if I can find a drive that works for me. If I can, I'll install the system and just mail you the drive. This will take several weeks to get to (unless you want to drive here and help). I have a basement full of crap that I'm currently trying to dispose of so I can work again.
           
          Kelly
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Bill Degnan
          Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 8:07 PM
          To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: re: [midatlanticretro] Tandy 6000HD

           

          Under similar circumstances I have found that it's the obvious...you have a
          physical defect on the drive. One thing you could try, is partition the
          drive at the cylinder level, up to the bad cylinder. You may have to use
          MS DOS tools to figure out exactly where the bad cylinder is. You may only
          end up with 4MB of space but you'll at least get something.

          Bill Degnan

          -------- Original Message --------
          > From: "Mike Loewen" <mloewen@...>
          > Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 7:14 PM
          > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [midatlanticretro] Tandy 6000HD
          >
          > I'm having an awful time trying to get a good hard drive in my 6000HD.
          > The best one I have is a ST-251-1, which low-level formats (maybe a
          > half-dozen errors). I then boot from diskette and run 'xenix'. It asks

          > me if I want to initialize the hard disk: yes. Have I initialized it
          with
          > diskutil: yes. Is this a Model II: no. "Setting floppy drives to faster

          > seek speeds".
          >
          > A this point, the floppy drive seeks a couple of times, then the
          floppy
          > select light goes out for a bit, then the floppy accesses again and the
          > floppy select light stays on. Under normal circumstances, the floppy
          > select light would go out for a bit, then the installation would continue

          > by extracting tar files. With my ST-251, the floppy select light stays
          on
          > and nothing happens (for hours, even).
          >
          > Any ideas what might be happening? I don't have any other systems to

          > test the hard drive.
          >
          >
          > Mike Loewen mloewen@...
          > Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >

        • system@great-escape.tmesis.com
          ... Old MFM stuff. What is the MFG and designation on the drive you re using? As I recall, Maxtor and Micropolis made a great many of them. I ve a stash of
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 20, 2010
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            Mike Loewen <mloewen@...> writes:

            > I'm having an awful time trying to get a good hard drive in my 6000HD.
            >The best one I have is a ST-251-1, which low-level formats (maybe a
            >half-dozen errors). I then boot from diskette and run 'xenix'. It asks
            >me if I want to initialize the hard disk: yes. Have I initialized it with
            >diskutil: yes. Is this a Model II: no. "Setting floppy drives to faster
            >seek speeds".
            >
            > A this point, the floppy drive seeks a couple of times, then the floppy
            >select light goes out for a bit, then the floppy accesses again and the
            >floppy select light stays on. Under normal circumstances, the floppy
            >select light would go out for a bit, then the installation would continue
            >by extracting tar files. With my ST-251, the floppy select light stays on
            >and nothing happens (for hours, even).
            >
            > Any ideas what might be happening? I don't have any other systems to
            >test the hard drive.

            Old MFM stuff. What is the MFG and designation on the drive you're using?
            As I recall, Maxtor and Micropolis made a great many of them. I've a stash
            of Maxtor-2190s (DEC RD54s) that I'm holding on to for some quick dosh when
            somebody absolutley needs one. These things are priced like gold now. Is
            yours actually the Seagate ST-251?

            http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=7466c6ea20fbd010VgnVCM100000dd04090aRCRD&locale=en-US&reqPage=Legacy
          • Mike Loewen
            ... I ve done some more testing, with a 2nd ST-251 which I was also able to low-level format. For those of you who have never done this on a Tandy 6000, its
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 20, 2010
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              On Fri, 20 Aug 2010, Kelly D. Leavitt wrote:

              > I agree with Bill.
              >
              > I think that it is at this point that it is trying to write the file system (mkfs is running).

              I've done some more testing, with a 2nd ST-251 which I was also able to
              low-level format. For those of you who have never done this on a Tandy
              6000, its format utility checks the track after it writes it. If it's
              bad, it adds an entry to the bad-track table.

              The 2nd Seagate does the same thing as the first. If I reset the
              machine and reload the diskutil, it comes up with a "drive not ready"
              error. The same thing happened with the first drive.

              I'm going to try my other disk controller, next. Bill, I also tried
              formatting it with only 5 heads instead of 6 - same problem.

              It almost seems like a temperature-related issue. I'll have to check
              that, too.


              Mike Loewen mloewen@...
              Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
            • Mike Loewen
              ... Yep, Seagate 251-1. They used to hold up well, at least the later versions. Mike Loewen mloewen@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 20, 2010
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                On Fri, 20 Aug 2010, system@... wrote:

                > Old MFM stuff. What is the MFG and designation on the drive you're using?
                > As I recall, Maxtor and Micropolis made a great many of them. I've a stash
                > of Maxtor-2190s (DEC RD54s) that I'm holding on to for some quick dosh when
                > somebody absolutley needs one. These things are priced like gold now. Is
                > yours actually the Seagate ST-251?

                Yep, Seagate 251-1. They used to hold up well, at least the later
                versions.


                Mike Loewen mloewen@...
                Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
              • Bill Degnan
                I have a 251 that I can only get a few meg out of myself. Part of what I plan to do next weekend is test a few boxes of various types of drives. I will prob
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 20, 2010
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                  I have a 251 that I can only get a few meg out of myself. Part of what I
                  plan to do next weekend is test a few boxes of various types of drives. I
                  will prob set up one or two pc's to chew on drives trying various things.
                  I hope to recover some useful drives, if you're like me they're hard to
                  come by.

                  Speaking of drives, Kelly did you ever get the Random drive I traded you
                  working?

                  Bill Degnan

                  -------- Original Message --------
                  > From: "Mike Loewen" <mloewen@...>
                  > Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 9:41 PM
                  > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Tandy 6000HD
                  >
                  > On Fri, 20 Aug 2010, system@... wrote:
                  >
                  > > Old MFM stuff. What is the MFG and designation on the drive you're
                  using?
                  > > As I recall, Maxtor and Micropolis made a great many of them. I've a
                  stash
                  > > of Maxtor-2190s (DEC RD54s) that I'm holding on to for some quick dosh
                  when
                  > > somebody absolutley needs one. These things are priced like gold now.
                  Is
                  > > yours actually the Seagate ST-251?
                  >
                  > Yep, Seagate 251-1. They used to hold up well, at least the later
                  > versions.
                  >
                  >
                  > Mike Loewen mloewen@...
                  > Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Mike Loewen
                  I ve discovered a few things about my 6000HD: 1. The original hard drive controller was definitely bad. It recognized the drive as ready, but would not format
                  Message 8 of 10 , Aug 24, 2010
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                    I've discovered a few things about my 6000HD:

                    1. The original hard drive controller was definitely bad. It recognized
                    the drive as ready, but would not format any track.

                    2. The Seagate ST-4038 I had previously tried to load only works for about
                    1/2 hour, then starts throwing errors.

                    3. The original 15MB hard drive works, and I was able to load the complete
                    development system on it. During the hdinit process, about a dozen "no
                    space on dev 1/1" messages appeared, but the installation proceeded.

                    4. I believe both Seagate ST-251s are good, but both go not-ready during
                    the installation process. When I get a chance, I'm going to experiment
                    with taping over pin 2 on the control cable. This was originally the
                    signal to reduce write current on inner tracks, but then became a 4th head
                    select line on later drives. The ST-251 should be ignoring it, but it's
                    possible that the RWC signal is causing problems. This SHOULD only be a
                    problem with drives that have more than 8 heads, like the ST-4096.


                    Mike Loewen mloewen@...
                    Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                  • Mike Loewen
                    For you NJ folks, there s a very nice NEC PC-8001A on Ebay, #250687492167. Appears to be complete and in working order. Mike Loewen
                    Message 9 of 10 , Aug 25, 2010
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                      For you NJ folks, there's a very nice NEC PC-8001A on Ebay,
                      #250687492167. Appears to be complete and in working order.


                      Mike Loewen mloewen@...
                      Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
                    • Justin Jernigan
                      I had a similar experience (errors 30 minutes after power up) with an older SCSI drive, turned out to be cold solder joints at the power connector. Might be
                      Message 10 of 10 , Aug 25, 2010
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                        I had a similar experience (errors 30 minutes after power up) with an older SCSI drive, turned out to be cold solder joints at the power connector. Might be worth a look.

                        Sent from my iPhone

                        On Aug 24, 2010, at 10:30 PM, Mike Loewen <mloewen@...> wrote:

                         


                        I've discovered a few things about my 6000HD:

                        1. The original hard drive controller was definitely bad. It recognized
                        the drive as ready, but would not format any track.

                        2. The Seagate ST-4038 I had previously tried to load only works for about
                        1/2 hour, then starts throwing errors.

                        3. The original 15MB hard drive works, and I was able to load the complete
                        development system on it. During the hdinit process, about a dozen "no
                        space on dev 1/1" messages appeared, but the installation proceeded.

                        4. I believe both Seagate ST-251s are good, but both go not-ready during
                        the installation process. When I get a chance, I'm going to experiment
                        with taping over pin 2 on the control cable. This was originally the
                        signal to reduce write current on inner tracks, but then became a 4th head
                        select line on later drives. The ST-251 should be ignoring it, but it's
                        possible that the RWC signal is causing problems. This SHOULD only be a
                        problem with drives that have more than 8 heads, like the ST-4096.

                        Mike Loewen mloewen@...
                        Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/

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