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copying UNIX files (long file names) to 360 disks and preserving the file names

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  • B Degnan
    I have been trying to copy UNIX files with long file names to 360 5 1/4 disk and preserve the file name, not have the names cut to only 8.3 chars. Anyone
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 14, 2010
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      I have been trying to copy UNIX files with long file names to 360 5 1/4"
      disk and preserve the file name, not have the names cut to only 8.3
      chars. Anyone have a method for this? My UNIX PC has a low density
      360 drive, so I need to get the files onto the drive, run through the
      DOS emulator and copy to a UNIX partition.

      I guess I need to hook up a 5 1/4" drive to my modern PC running UBUNTU,
      as I have no trouble copying the files to 1.44 disk and preserving their
      names. I tried booting a Windows 98 disk on a system with both a 1.44MD
      (3.5) and a 1.2MB (5 1/4") , but that did not work. I am sure I will
      think of something eventually, but I am curious if anyone has actually
      accomplishes this conveniently.

      I could also try to find a way to copy the files via modem, etc. but
      there are other issues with that.

      Thanks
      Bill
    • Jeffrey Brace
      Without thinking it through and being very tired, a thought popped into my head based on my experience in college using UNIX systems and Macintosh & DOS at the
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 14, 2010
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        Without thinking it through and being very tired, a thought popped into my head based on my experience in college using UNIX systems and Macintosh & DOS at the same time. What about copying the files to a Macintosh formatted disk and using Mac-ette or other Macintosh reader software to copy it to the PC side ?
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: B Degnan
        Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 10:59 PM
        Subject: [midatlanticretro] copying UNIX files (long file names) to 360 disks and preserving the file names

         

        I have been trying to copy UNIX files with long file names to 360 5 1/4"
        disk and preserve the file name, not have the names cut to only 8.3
        chars. Anyone have a method for this? My UNIX PC has a low density
        360 drive, so I need to get the files onto the drive, run through the
        DOS emulator and copy to a UNIX partition.

        I guess I need to hook up a 5 1/4" drive to my modern PC running UBUNTU,
        as I have no trouble copying the files to 1.44 disk and preserving their
        names. I tried booting a Windows 98 disk on a system with both a 1.44MD
        (3.5) and a 1.2MB (5 1/4") , but that did not work. I am sure I will
        think of something eventually, but I am curious if anyone has actually
        accomplishes this conveniently.

        I could also try to find a way to copy the files via modem, etc. but
        there are other issues with that.

        Thanks
        Bill

      • Kelly D. Leavitt
        Use tar to copy the files to an archive. Copy the archive to the floppy, and use tar on the destination side to read them out. On unix tar cf $HOME/file.tar
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 15, 2010
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          Use tar to copy the files to an archive. Copy the archive to the floppy, and use tar on the destination side to read them out.
           
          On unix
           
          tar cf $HOME/file.tar fileswithlongnames
           
          this will create file.tar in your home directory that contains the file 'fileswithlongnames'
          copy file.tar to the floppy
           
          when you 'un-tar' on the destination machine, use
           
          tar xf file.tar
           
          Kelly
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of B Degnan
          Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 12:00 AM
          To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [midatlanticretro] copying UNIX files (long file names) to 360 disks and preserving the file names

           

          I have been trying to copy UNIX files with long file names to 360 5 1/4"
          disk and preserve the file name, not have the names cut to only 8.3
          chars. Anyone have a method for this? My UNIX PC has a low density
          360 drive, so I need to get the files onto the drive, run through the
          DOS emulator and copy to a UNIX partition.

          I guess I need to hook up a 5 1/4" drive to my modern PC running UBUNTU,
          as I have no trouble copying the files to 1.44 disk and preserving their
          names. I tried booting a Windows 98 disk on a system with both a 1.44MD
          (3.5) and a 1.2MB (5 1/4") , but that did not work. I am sure I will
          think of something eventually, but I am curious if anyone has actually
          accomplishes this conveniently.

          I could also try to find a way to copy the files via modem, etc. but
          there are other issues with that.

          Thanks
          Bill

        • system@great-escape.tmesis.com
          Kelly D. Leavitt ... ...or ZIP your files. You ll get much more on the small disk with them compressed by ZIP. Also, have you tied
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 15, 2010
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            "Kelly D. Leavitt" <kelly@...>

            >Use tar to copy the files to an archive. Copy the archive to the floppy, an=
            >d use tar on the destination side to read them out.
            >
            >On unix
            >
            >tar cf $HOME/file.tar fileswithlongnames
            >
            >this will create file.tar in your home directory that contains the file 'fi=
            >leswithlongnames'
            >copy file.tar to the floppy
            >
            >when you 'un-tar' on the destination machine, use
            >
            >tar xf file.tar

            ...or ZIP your files. You'll get much more on the small disk with them
            compressed by ZIP.

            Also, have you tied 'dd'? What you are seeing is manifest in the fact
            that you are going through the file system handler of the target drive.
            If the drive can be visible but not mounted, 'dd' (block copies) might
            also work. I would go the ZIP route first, 'tar'chive second and, as a
            last resort, 'dd'.

            ZIP is more portable too. There are ZIP and UNZIP utilities for myriad
            OSs.
          • Kelly D. Leavitt
            ... From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of system@great-escape.tmesis.com Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 15, 2010
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              -----Original Message-----
              From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of system@...
              Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 7:32 AM
              To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] copying UNIX files (long file names) to 360 disks and preserving the file names

                ...or ZIP your files. You'll get much more on the small disk with them
              compressed by ZIP.

              Also, have you tied 'dd'? What you are seeing is manifest in the fact
              that you are going through the file system handler of the target drive.
              If the drive can be visible but not mounted, 'dd' (block copies) might
              also work. I would go the ZIP route first, 'tar'chive second and, as a
              last resort, 'dd'.

              ZIP is more portable too. There are ZIP and UNZIP utilities for myriad
              OSs.
              .
               
               
              There  may not be a zip port available for this vintage of a system unless you have the development system. I know there was no zip  available for the Tandy Xenix machines of about the same vintage, even if you had the dev system.   One thing to note, these machines are K&R c, not ANSI c.
               
              I do have the source for the zoo archiver that will compile on  many  of these machines , plus the PC, Amiga, Atari, etc
               
              If you want to use compression and still be  UNIX  portable, you can use tar and compress/zcat on the unix side. 
               
              Kelly 
               
            • David Gesswein
              ... Couple things to add that can make it easier If the tar file is too big for a floppy you can try compressing it. The unix pc should have the older compress
              Message 6 of 16 , Jul 15, 2010
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                > Use tar to copy the files to an archive. Copy the archive to the floppy,
                > and use tar on the destination side to read them out.
                >
                Couple things to add that can make it easier

                If the tar file is too big for a floppy you can try compressing it. The unix
                pc should have the older compress and decompress commands.

                Also you can use the split command to break the tar file into floppy
                size pieces
                split -b bytes filename
                Bytes is the capacity of the floppy. You will get files names xaa xab etc.
                to put them back together
                cat x* > file.tar

                These commands are likely to be on the unix pc and are on modern unixes also.
              • system@great-escape.tmesis.com
                Kelly D. Leavitt writes ... In which case the idea of filenames in excess of 8.3 are a stretch too. ;) Pun intended.
                Message 7 of 16 , Jul 15, 2010
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                  "Kelly D. Leavitt" <kelly@...> writes"

                  >There may not be a zip port available for this vintage of a system unless =
                  >you have the development system. I know there was no zip available for the=
                  > Tandy Xenix machines of about the same vintage, even if you had the dev sy=
                  >stem. One thing to note, these machines are K&R c, not ANSI c.
                  >=20
                  >I do have the source for the zoo archiver that will compile on many of th=
                  >ese machines , plus the PC, Amiga, Atari, etc
                  >=20
                  >If you want to use compression and still be UNIX portable, you can use ta=
                  >r and compress/zcat on the unix side.=20

                  In which case the idea of filenames in excess of 8.3 are a stretch too. ;)
                  Pun intended.
                • B Degnan
                  ... I do not have a MAC with a 5 /14 360 K drive
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jul 15, 2010
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                    Jeffrey Brace wrote:
                    Without thinking it through and being very tired, a thought popped into my head based on my experience in college using UNIX systems and Macintosh & DOS at the same time. What about copying the files to a Macintosh formatted disk and using Mac-ette or other Macintosh reader software to copy it to the PC side ?
                     
                     
                    _._,___
                    I do not have a MAC with a 5 /14" 360 K drive
                  • B Degnan
                    Yes, that s what I will do, create a set of tar files and extract them. Thanks for the command string. The trick to Kelly s method, I have later discovered, is
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jul 15, 2010
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                      Yes, that's what I will do, create a set of tar files and extract them.  Thanks for the command string.

                      The trick to Kelly's method, I have later discovered, is somehow moving the tar ball from the DOS file system of the UNIX PC to the UNIX filesystem.  I figured out how to do that, and have practiced this process successfully.  I have been able to move UNIX ascii files and read them (with the correct LF not LF/CR).  Lot's of baby steps to make this happen, but the end result is worth it.

                      Bill

                      Kelly D. Leavitt wrote:
                      Use tar to copy the files to an archive. Copy the archive to the floppy, and use tar on the destination side to read them out.
                       
                      On unix
                       
                      tar cf $HOME/file.tar fileswithlongnames
                       
                      this will create file.tar in your home directory that contains the file 'fileswithlongnames'
                      copy file.tar to the floppy
                       
                      when you 'un-tar' on the destination machine, use
                       
                      tar xf file.tar
                       
                      Kelly
                       
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of B Degnan
                      Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 12:00 AM
                      To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [midatlanticretro] copying UNIX files (long file names) to 360 disks and preserving the file names

                       

                      I have been trying to copy UNIX files with long file names to 360 5 1/4"
                      disk and preserve the file name, not have the names cut to only 8.3
                      chars. Anyone have a method for this? My UNIX PC has a low density
                      360 drive, so I need to get the files onto the drive, run through the
                      DOS emulator and copy to a UNIX partition.

                      I guess I need to hook up a 5 1/4" drive to my modern PC running UBUNTU,
                      as I have no trouble copying the files to 1.44 disk and preserving their
                      names. I tried booting a Windows 98 disk on a system with both a 1.44MD
                      (3.5) and a 1.2MB (5 1/4") , but that did not work. I am sure I will
                      think of something eventually, but I am curious if anyone has actually
                      accomplishes this conveniently.

                      I could also try to find a way to copy the files via modem, etc. but
                      there are other issues with that.

                      Thanks
                      Bill


                    • systems_glitch
                      Bill, You re welcome to copy larger files over using the Internet-attached SPARCclassic at HOPE. Make sure you ve got X/Y/ZModem or Kermit installed. C-Kermit
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jul 15, 2010
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                        Bill,

                        You're welcome to copy larger files over using the Internet-attached SPARCclassic at HOPE. Make sure you've got X/Y/ZModem or Kermit installed. C-Kermit 6 is reported to build on the UNIX PC just fine, if you've got the developers' tools (if not, I believe BitSavers has all of them imaged and archived).

                        I'll see if I can find some DB-25 connectors in NYC and solder up a splitter for the serial port on the SPARCclassic. Oh, if you (anyone) haven't been to the electronics junk shops on Canal Street, you should go -- a lot of them carry vintage components that other stores have cleared out. Last HOPE, we went looking for CMOS flip-flops, and ended up buying a pile of Atari blister-packed 4000-series flip-flops for maybe $1.

                        --Jonathan

                        On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 8:57 AM, B Degnan <billdeg@...> wrote:


                        Yes, that's what I will do, create a set of tar files and extract them.  Thanks for the command string.

                        The trick to Kelly's method, I have later discovered, is somehow moving the tar ball from the DOS file system of the UNIX PC to the UNIX filesystem.  I figured out how to do that, and have practiced this process successfully.  I have been able to move UNIX ascii files and read them (with the correct LF not LF/CR).  Lot's of baby steps to make this happen, but the end result is worth it.

                        Bill


                        Kelly D. Leavitt wrote:
                        Use tar to copy the files to an archive. Copy the archive to the floppy, and use tar on the destination side to read them out.
                         
                        On unix
                         
                        tar cf $HOME/file.tar fileswithlongnames
                         
                        this will create file.tar in your home directory that contains the file 'fileswithlongnames'
                        copy file.tar to the floppy
                         
                        when you 'un-tar' on the destination machine, use
                         
                        tar xf file.tar
                         
                        Kelly
                         
                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of B Degnan
                        Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 12:00 AM
                        To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [midatlanticretro] copying UNIX files (long file names) to 360 disks and preserving the file names

                         

                        I have been trying to copy UNIX files with long file names to 360 5 1/4"
                        disk and preserve the file name, not have the names cut to only 8.3
                        chars. Anyone have a method for this? My UNIX PC has a low density
                        360 drive, so I need to get the files onto the drive, run through the
                        DOS emulator and copy to a UNIX partition.

                        I guess I need to hook up a 5 1/4" drive to my modern PC running UBUNTU,
                        as I have no trouble copying the files to 1.44 disk and preserving their
                        names. I tried booting a Windows 98 disk on a system with both a 1.44MD
                        (3.5) and a 1.2MB (5 1/4") , but that did not work. I am sure I will
                        think of something eventually, but I am curious if anyone has actually
                        accomplishes this conveniently.

                        I could also try to find a way to copy the files via modem, etc. but
                        there are other issues with that.

                        Thanks
                        Bill





                      • Kelly D. Leavitt
                        ... My old Tandy Xenix supported long file names, but just couldn t run a compatible compression algorithm used by zip. I think it had to do with integer size,
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jul 15, 2010
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                          > In which case the idea of filenames in excess of 8.3 are a stretch too. ;)
                          > Pun intended.

                          My old Tandy Xenix supported long file names, but just couldn't run a compatible compression algorithm used by zip. I think it had to do with integer size, or some other data typing problem that was fundemental to the program.

                          Like I said, I have the full source to the zoo/unzoo archive tool. This is a real handy tool. I don't have a cross compiler for the Unix PC.

                          Kelly
                        • Bill Degnan
                          I am going to make this simple on myself. 1. I will copy the tar files from a Linux box to a PC with both 3.5 and 5 1/4 drives. 2. Copy the files to 5 1/4
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jul 15, 2010
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                            I am going to make this simple on myself.

                            1. I will copy the tar files from a Linux box to a PC with both 3.5 and 5
                            1/4" drives.
                            2. Copy the files to 5 1/4" (formatted by the UNIX PC for use in a DOS
                            system)
                            3. Move these files to the UNIX partition through the DOS emulator on the
                            UNIX PC
                            4. Unpack the tar files on the UNIX PC

                            bd

                            -------- Original Message --------
                            > From: "Kelly D. Leavitt" <kelly@...>
                            > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:36 AM
                            > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] copying UNIX files (long file names) to
                            360 disks and preserving the file names
                            >
                            > > In which case the idea of filenames in excess of 8.3 are a stretch too.
                            ;)
                            > > Pun intended.
                            >
                            > My old Tandy Xenix supported long file names, but just couldn't run a
                            compatible compression algorithm used by zip. I think it had to do with
                            integer size, or some other data typing problem that was fundemental to the
                            program.
                            >
                            > Like I said, I have the full source to the zoo/unzoo archive tool. This
                            is a real handy tool. I don't have a cross compiler for the Unix PC.
                            >
                            > Kelly
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • system@great-escape.tmesis.com
                            Kelly D. Leavitt wrote: A message with less than 500 characters of actual content. That message was MIMEd and base64 encoded which is
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jul 15, 2010
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                              "Kelly D. Leavitt" <kelly@...> wrote:

                              A message with less than 500 characters of actual content. That message
                              was MIMEd and base64 encoded which is about a 4:3 increase in size. That
                              message was accompanied by an HTMLed version of the file which was 14.7KB
                              and MIMEd and a file called WINMAIL.DAT MIMEd and base64 encoded.

                              That figures to be:

                              500B*4/3 = 666B
                              14.7KB
                              6KB*4/3 = 8192B
                              total: ~24KB

                              ...and that doesn't included all the headers which, in and of themselves,
                              far exceeded the actual message content.

                              For you "retro guys" who had 64K computers, that's 2/5ths of your memory.
                              I'd wager with the headers, it's closer to 1/3. To illustrate this in
                              other terms, only 2% of the data received was actual message. That's a
                              very poor S/N ratio. ;)

                              Is there a way to turn off all of the excess that's tagged onto messages
                              from Yahoogroups?
                            • Sridhar Ayengar
                              ... Indeed. compress(1) is probably the most portable solution. Peace... Sridhar
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jul 15, 2010
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                                Kelly D. Leavitt wrote:
                                > If you want to use compression and still be UNIX portable, you can use

                                Indeed. compress(1) is probably the most portable solution.

                                Peace... Sridhar
                              • B Degnan
                                ... I was able to get Kermit 5 installed. I also installed some of the developer kit, but I need some assistance with navigating through it s use. Bill
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jul 16, 2010
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                                  systems_glitch wrote:
                                  Bill,

                                  You're welcome to copy larger files over using the Internet-attached SPARCclassic at HOPE. Make sure you've got X/Y/ZModem or Kermit installed. C-Kermit 6 is reported to build on the UNIX PC just fine, if you've got the developers' tools (if not, I believe BitSavers has all of them imaged and archived).

                                  I was able to get Kermit 5 installed.  I also installed some of the developer kit, but I need some assistance with navigating through it's use.
                                  Bill
                                • Jim Scheef
                                  Bill, I like the tar method for it s classic elegance. Have you looked at uucp to make the transfer? It s guaranteed to be on the UNIX PC and it s easy to add
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Jul 22, 2010
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                                    Bill,

                                    I like the tar method for it's classic elegance. Have you looked at uucp to make the transfer? It's guaranteed to be on the UNIX PC and it's easy to add to a Windows machine under Cygwin. Then (I think) all you need is a null modem cable and a PC with an actual serial port. Uupc

                                    Jim

                                    On 7/15/2010 11:57 AM, Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
                                     

                                    Kelly D. Leavitt wrote:
                                    > If you want to use compression and still be UNIX portable, you can use

                                    Indeed. compress(1) is probably the most portable solution.

                                    Peace... Sridhar

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