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RE: [midatlanticretro] Saga of the Commodores in Summit, NJ

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  • Evan
    I d like to buy the Geneva. Send me the details off-list please. - Evan ... From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com]On
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 4, 2005
    • 0 Attachment

      I'd like to buy the Geneva. Send me the details off-list please.

      - Evan

      -----Original Message-----
      From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of john_apw
      Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 11:37 PM
      To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [midatlanticretro] Saga of the Commodores in Summit, NJ

      Gentlemen:

      This will be a rather detailed report of my activities in the matter
      of "Commodore Computers in Summit, NJ". ("Detailed" = long winded,
      but hopefully informative...)

      I saw the notice in the digest yesterday morning (Wednesday, 02 NOV
      2005) and I sent an email to Lou, the contact person.
      I received a phone call at about 11:30am. He told me that he had a
      number of old computers that his son was going to put up on eBay,
      but they were uncomfortable with shipping monitors, etc. He wanted
      his son to make some money, and when they checked the winning eBay
      bids for similar systems, they thought they might make $300 or $400,
      but it would involve a lot of work and time, trips to the Post
      Office, etc. To see if they could avoid the hassle, he contacted the
      winner and loser of an eBay auction to see if they would be
      interested. Instead, he was referred to the list. Thus the first
      message.

      I was preparing to arrange to see the equipment over the weekend
      when he expressed the urgency: the stuff was in a house being
      cleaned out and anything his son didn't take to sell that was still
      there on Friday (tomorrow) would go into the dumpster. I asked if I
      could come right over, and he said yes. An hour later I was there
      and found out what was going on.

      Seems that Lou is one of three guys who bought the house to re-
      develop, following the death at around age 80 of the sole owner, a
      fellow named David Z. Lou and his partners are preparing to gut and
      renovate the place, but the deceased had no relatives, and all his
      stuff was there, and it all has to be removed. Lou had someone buy
      furniture, etc. and when I explained the MARCH museum, he liked the
      idea that the stuff would go where it would be appreciated. So he
      gave me an exclusive on whatever I thought would be useful. He
      showed me around the place and I took mental notes. Then he
      mentioned that he had already removed some computers to his house,
      but would bring them back for me. Then he mentioned again that he
      wanted his son to get some money out of this. I told him we had no
      budget, but that I would see what I could do personally. He said he
      wanted $200, and I told him that I wasn't sure there was enough
      equipment to warrant that. But he hinted that I might change my mind
      when he brought back the other computers in the morning (Thursday).

      So, we agreed to gather all the computer stuff in the morning, and
      meanwhile he let me rummage around and take stuff I wanted. (Evan,
      this was when I was calling you to discuss truck rental, etc.
      Unfortunately, I can't take a Wurlitzer organ that Davi Z. built
      from kits...It's got a curved wood cabinet, two keyboards and stops,
      foot pedals and a cushioned bench; just too big for me to take it or
      store it...)

      Well, it seems that David was some sort of engineer and a total
      recluse. His little old house, with many tiny rooms, and little
      twisty passages, all alike, was packed wall-to-wall with radios,
      electronic components, audio equipment, computers, etc. He had one
      room with several systems on desks, another room set up like a
      repair shop, another with ham radio, and another with several
      computers, tons of software, and more components (looked just like
      the *old* Radio Shack store layouts!). This guy was a packrat of the
      most intense degree! He had a cache of empty boxes that he used for
      organizing all the equipment repair projects - from radios,
      telephone, to sewing machines, can openers, and food mixers! There
      must have been just dozens of empty boxes alone - not to mention all
      the shelves with boxes that had stuff in them...

      Mostly everything was carefully labeled, sometimes including notes
      about operational characteristics ("a few pixels bad", "motor noise
      in output audio", "this cable for xyz unit" etc.).

      So, on the theory that our local radio museum might be interested in
      some of the radio equipment, I started packing the car with
      shortwave radios, transistor radios, etc. Then I started packing
      test meters. Then I went for some of the spare parts. I also packed
      a typewriter and an old 1950's era HiFi. (Also a calculator or
      two...) In the long run, I decided that other stuff had more
      potential value than the small electronic components (resistors,
      diodes), so I left them behind.

      With the wagon full, I went home and planned for today. Lou had
      building inspectors coming in the morning so I wouldn't be able to
      start packing until around 10am. We agreed to touch base at 9am. I
      really had no place to unload into, so I decided I'd use the morning
      to bring the first load to the museum. Fred and I agreed to meet at
      InfoAge at 8:00 in the morning. He wouldn't be around after noon, so
      I was planning on a fast return to Summit, reload, and then back to
      InfoAge. I went to the bank and took out cash, wondering whether or
      not (besides the systems at the house) he'd have anything else
      worthwhile. I also went to Staples and bought a bunch of storage
      boxes.

      So this morning, I made the trip, got there, met Fred, and we
      unloaded the mostly radio stuff to a place in the basement just
      outside the room designated for our use. Fred showed me the inner
      room with all the shelves, and indicated that we could move the
      stuff into the inner room and onto the shelves at some later time
      (on the 12th, at least).

      I drove back, and on the way Lou called me to say that the
      inspectors would be late, so I should come back at 11. So instead of
      going straight to Summit and saving ~25 miles, I headed back home to
      handle some family business. That took longer than expected, so I
      called Lou and let him know. When I got there at about 11:30, he
      showed me the back of his pickup truck - LOADED with systems!!

      We packed all that stuff into my wagon, then I set to work on moving
      the (hopefully) working systems into the large boxes. Whenever
      possible, I did NOT unplug cables from devices; rather I carefully
      slid everything into the box together. It will take some care to
      untangle everything, but if we work on one system at a time, it
      shouldn't be a problem. (I felt that I had to do it this way in
      order to avoid losing the relationships between units unfamiliar to
      me - I didn't want unrelated things getting plugged in where they
      shouldn't...)  Meanwhile Lou searched the attic and retrieved a few
      more systems and disk drives.

      Two hours later, there was barely enough room in my car for me! I
      had systems, printers, software, manuals, etc. etc. etc. (list will
      follow below!) I could barely close the rear hatch!

      I left Summit just before 2pm, and called Fred on his cellphone to
      let him know, even though I knew he wasn't going to be at the
      museum. I got there right at 3pm, checked in, and prepared to unload.

      By 4pm, I had managed to move everything from the car AND from the
      earlier drop-off (on the floor) into the inner room, onto the
      shelves, and categorized roughly into groups of related things.

      My day ended with the trip home, and this report. Total time
      involved: yesterday ~ 5 hours, today ~9 hours. Miles driven: ~320.
      Money spent $200 on equipment, $48 on boxes (not all were used),
      plus gas (~$30). Phone calls: unallocated part of my monthly
      minutes. Assessment: Well, I don't know about you, but I feel pretty
      good about it!

      !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


      OK, so what's in the basement?

      Let me start with the non-computer stuff that we can use(?), or
      give, sell, or barter with:

      Radios
      =====================
      About 20 or 30 of various types (6 transistor, 8 trans, 12 trans, to
      other portable shortware receivers). Various makes and models,
      including a few Archer/Radio Shack, and some I don't recognize.
      (NOTE: Some have batteries in them and they should be removed on the
      12th)

      One Hi-Fi, probably early 1960's.

      One cool desktop set with big dials, and a matching external
      speaker, both in metal housings. Also two cigar boxes, one
      containing photos of some people with the radio, presumably one of
      the guys is David, and another cigar box filled with postcards from
      the other ham/shortwave operators he made contact with. I believe
      these additional materials may add value to whatever the hardware is
      worth...

      A box of vacuum tubes! Some used, but many in their individual
      boxes.

      Radio - Miscellaneous
      =======================
      A really cool FRAMED, COLOR chart of allocated and unallocated radio
      frequencies in the Atlantic City area in 1947!!!
      (The radio guys will wet their pants when they see this!!)


      Meters and test equipment
      =========================
      Several VOMs; I think one was built from a kit.

      A radio frequency generator, I think built from a kit.

      A REALLY BIG and REALLY COOL LOOKING meter for measuring radio
      signals.

      Some other radio signal test stuff.

      A resistor selection box and a capacitor selection box.

      Two separate meters (one volts, one amps?), and rack-panel of meters
      (several of each type?)




      OK, and now the computer stuff
      ====================================

      The "working systems" include:  (these also include the power
      supplies)
      ------------------------------
      - Several Commodores (I think two are 64s, the other a 128), with
      monitor, floppies, joystick...

      - Another Commodore (64?) with floppy and really small printer

      - A flat grey Atari system box (don't remember the number), with
      monitor and keyboard

      - Amiga 1000(?): system box, monitor, kbd, mouse, floppy drive
      - extra Amiga boards

      - As many boxes of disks and diskettes as I could find...



      ALL OF THESE ARE BOXED UNLESS NOTED OTHERWISE!!!
      -------------------------------------------------
      One Atari 400
      One Atari 500
      Three Atari 800
      Two Atari 800XL
      Two Commodoare PET COLOR

      Four external disk drives - (I think 2 are 1581 or something like
      that, and the other 2 are different).
      Two Atari tape recorders
      One Atari tape recorder, not boxed

      Boards, cards, extenders, etc. for Atari

      Four Apple IIc monitors

      Two Tandy color computers
      One Tandy line printer (IV?) not boxed but with cover
      One Tandy floppy drive for CoCo
      One small box of fanfold paper.
      Some manuals for a Tandy 1000 (which I was not able to take)
      A small box of boards marked for the TRS80 Model II (didn't ID
      types, but there are probably 6 or 8 in the box)


      An original IBM PC keyboard (in IBM-blue-and-white box)
      Two other PC items (can't remember just now)
      Several cartons of IBM PC software, including early releases of:
      - Wordstar
      - Clipper
      - MS Excel
      - more...

      One Diablo 630 printer (with extra printwheels and ribbons! <VBG>),
      not boxed and VERY HEAVY!!!

      One Star Micronics printer (don't remember the number)
      Ribbons for a Star printer (But I don't know if they're for the
      above printer...)

      Two small boxes of manuals and documents for TI-99/4a

      One Atari TV game station
      Two Magnavox Oddessy systems, not boxed
         (if these have RCA-1802 microprocessors, I'm going to take one
      back for examination...)

      A bunch of unopened vinyl computer covers

      One Smith-Corona Electra 110(?) typewriter, not boxed

      Two cartons and a stack of other stuff, not identified... (I looked
      and saw; I just don't remember right now -- I think there were
      joysticks, a PONG game, and more...)

      Three small boxes of calculators
        WARNING: Evan is permitted to inspect these first and determine if
      any are worth adding to his collection!!
      A box of about 10 calculator covers

      One fairly modern modem

      ==================================================

      OK, I know there are more things that I haven't listed, but this is
      the best I can do at this time. We can double check on the 12th.

      (By the way, for the 12th (and afterward), we DO need tables,
      lights, and extension cords. (And hard hats?)
      And I would REALLY love it if somehow we get a hand truck or palette
      jack or something so that moving can be done with a lot less
      effort!!)

      BE ADVISED: there is very little room left on the shelves on the
      left side of the room! I'm sure this stuff can be condensed and re-
      organized, but I tried to keep things from getting too jammed, so
      that they are visible for inventorying and examination.


      Also, although he's a contractor doing a renovation, I explained to
      Lou that when someone donates stuff, we keep their name with the
      equipment, and I asked if he was interested in doing so. He laughed
      and said "You paid for it - it's yours, John!" So, when it comes to
      identifying where all this equipment came from, I think that I'd
      like to indicate that the original owner before me was David Z. We
      can get his full name and address from some of the boxes... Maybe we
      can also do some biographical research to find out more about his
      life and work...

      ===================================================

      So now you know "the rest of the story!" 

      ===================================================


      I look forward to hearing your thoughtful assessment of what this
      equipment is worth toward our museum's goals.

      Thanks,

      -John M.
      Montclair, NJ





    • Evan
      Oops, replied to the wrong email. Sorry. ... From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Evan Sent: Friday,
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 4, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        Oops, replied to the wrong email.  Sorry.
        -----Original Message-----
        From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Evan
        Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 11:37 AM
        To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] Saga of the Commodores in Summit, NJ

        I'd like to buy the Geneva. Send me the details off-list please.

        - Evan

        -----Original Message-----
        From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of john_apw
        Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 11:37 PM
        To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [midatlanticretro] Saga of the Commodores in Summit, NJ

        Gentlemen:

        This will be a rather detailed report of my activities in the matter
        of "Commodore Computers in Summit, NJ". ("Detailed" = long winded,
        but hopefully informative...)

        I saw the notice in the digest yesterday morning (Wednesday, 02 NOV
        2005) and I sent an email to Lou, the contact person.
        I received a phone call at about 11:30am. He told me that he had a
        number of old computers that his son was going to put up on eBay,
        but they were uncomfortable with shipping monitors, etc. He wanted
        his son to make some money, and when they checked the winning eBay
        bids for similar systems, they thought they might make $300 or $400,
        but it would involve a lot of work and time, trips to the Post
        Office, etc. To see if they could avoid the hassle, he contacted the
        winner and loser of an eBay auction to see if they would be
        interested. Instead, he was referred to the list. Thus the first
        message.

        I was preparing to arrange to see the equipment over the weekend
        when he expressed the urgency: the stuff was in a house being
        cleaned out and anything his son didn't take to sell that was still
        there on Friday (tomorrow) would go into the dumpster. I asked if I
        could come right over, and he said yes. An hour later I was there
        and found out what was going on.

        Seems that Lou is one of three guys who bought the house to re-
        develop, following the death at around age 80 of the sole owner, a
        fellow named David Z. Lou and his partners are preparing to gut and
        renovate the place, but the deceased had no relatives, and all his
        stuff was there, and it all has to be removed. Lou had someone buy
        furniture, etc. and when I explained the MARCH museum, he liked the
        idea that the stuff would go where it would be appreciated. So he
        gave me an exclusive on whatever I thought would be useful. He
        showed me around the place and I took mental notes. Then he
        mentioned that he had already removed some computers to his house,
        but would bring them back for me. Then he mentioned again that he
        wanted his son to get some money out of this. I told him we had no
        budget, but that I would see what I could do personally. He said he
        wanted $200, and I told him that I wasn't sure there was enough
        equipment to warrant that. But he hinted that I might change my mind
        when he brought back the other computers in the morning (Thursday).

        So, we agreed to gather all the computer stuff in the morning, and
        meanwhile he let me rummage around and take stuff I wanted. (Evan,
        this was when I was calling you to discuss truck rental, etc.
        Unfortunately, I can't take a Wurlitzer organ that Davi Z. built
        from kits...It's got a curved wood cabinet, two keyboards and stops,
        foot pedals and a cushioned bench; just too big for me to take it or
        store it...)

        Well, it seems that David was some sort of engineer and a total
        recluse. His little old house, with many tiny rooms, and little
        twisty passages, all alike, was packed wall-to-wall with radios,
        electronic components, audio equipment, computers, etc. He had one
        room with several systems on desks, another room set up like a
        repair shop, another with ham radio, and another with several
        computers, tons of software, and more components (looked just like
        the *old* Radio Shack store layouts!). This guy was a packrat of the
        most intense degree! He had a cache of empty boxes that he used for
        organizing all the equipment repair projects - from radios,
        telephone, to sewing machines, can openers, and food mixers! There
        must have been just dozens of empty boxes alone - not to mention all
        the shelves with boxes that had stuff in them...

        Mostly everything was carefully labeled, sometimes including notes
        about operational characteristics ("a few pixels bad", "motor noise
        in output audio", "this cable for xyz unit" etc.).

        So, on the theory that our local radio museum might be interested in
        some of the radio equipment, I started packing the car with
        shortwave radios, transistor radios, etc. Then I started packing
        test meters. Then I went for some of the spare parts. I also packed
        a typewriter and an old 1950's era HiFi. (Also a calculator or
        two...) In the long run, I decided that other stuff had more
        potential value than the small electronic components (resistors,
        diodes), so I left them behind.

        With the wagon full, I went home and planned for today. Lou had
        building inspectors coming in the morning so I wouldn't be able to
        start packing until around 10am. We agreed to touch base at 9am. I
        really had no place to unload into, so I decided I'd use the morning
        to bring the first load to the museum. Fred and I agreed to meet at
        InfoAge at 8:00 in the morning. He wouldn't be around after noon, so
        I was planning on a fast return to Summit, reload, and then back to
        InfoAge. I went to the bank and took out cash, wondering whether or
        not (besides the systems at the house) he'd have anything else
        worthwhile. I also went to Staples and bought a bunch of storage
        boxes.

        So this morning, I made the trip, got there, met Fred, and we
        unloaded the mostly radio stuff to a place in the basement just
        outside the room designated for our use. Fred showed me the inner
        room with all the shelves, and indicated that we could move the
        stuff into the inner room and onto the shelves at some later time
        (on the 12th, at least).

        I drove back, and on the way Lou called me to say that the
        inspectors would be late, so I should come back at 11. So instead of
        going straight to Summit and saving ~25 miles, I headed back home to
        handle some family business. That took longer than expected, so I
        called Lou and let him know. When I got there at about 11:30, he
        showed me the back of his pickup truck - LOADED with systems!!

        We packed all that stuff into my wagon, then I set to work on moving
        the (hopefully) working systems into the large boxes. Whenever
        possible, I did NOT unplug cables from devices; rather I carefully
        slid everything into the box together. It will take some care to
        untangle everything, but if we work on one system at a time, it
        shouldn't be a problem. (I felt that I had to do it this way in
        order to avoid losing the relationships between units unfamiliar to
        me - I didn't want unrelated things getting plugged in where they
        shouldn't...)  Meanwhile Lou searched the attic and retrieved a few
        more systems and disk drives.

        Two hours later, there was barely enough room in my car for me! I
        had systems, printers, software, manuals, etc. etc. etc. (list will
        follow below!) I could barely close the rear hatch!

        I left Summit just before 2pm, and called Fred on his cellphone to
        let him know, even though I knew he wasn't going to be at the
        museum. I got there right at 3pm, checked in, and prepared to unload.

        By 4pm, I had managed to move everything from the car AND from the
        earlier drop-off (on the floor) into the inner room, onto the
        shelves, and categorized roughly into groups of related things.

        My day ended with the trip home, and this report. Total time
        involved: yesterday ~ 5 hours, today ~9 hours. Miles driven: ~320.
        Money spent $200 on equipment, $48 on boxes (not all were used),
        plus gas (~$30). Phone calls: unallocated part of my monthly
        minutes. Assessment: Well, I don't know about you, but I feel pretty
        good about it!

        !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


        OK, so what's in the basement?

        Let me start with the non-computer stuff that we can use(?), or
        give, sell, or barter with:

        Radios
        =====================
        About 20 or 30 of various types (6 transistor, 8 trans, 12 trans, to
        other portable shortware receivers). Various makes and models,
        including a few Archer/Radio Shack, and some I don't recognize.
        (NOTE: Some have batteries in them and they should be removed on the
        12th)

        One Hi-Fi, probably early 1960's.

        One cool desktop set with big dials, and a matching external
        speaker, both in metal housings. Also two cigar boxes, one
        containing photos of some people with the radio, presumably one of
        the guys is David, and another cigar box filled with postcards from
        the other ham/shortwave operators he made contact with. I believe
        these additional materials may add value to whatever the hardware is
        worth...

        A box of vacuum tubes! Some used, but many in their individual
        boxes.

        Radio - Miscellaneous
        =======================
        A really cool FRAMED, COLOR chart of allocated and unallocated radio
        frequencies in the Atlantic City area in 1947!!!
        (The radio guys will wet their pants when they see this!!)


        Meters and test equipment
        =========================
        Several VOMs; I think one was built from a kit.

        A radio frequency generator, I think built from a kit.

        A REALLY BIG and REALLY COOL LOOKING meter for measuring radio
        signals.

        Some other radio signal test stuff.

        A resistor selection box and a capacitor selection box.

        Two separate meters (one volts, one amps?), and rack-panel of meters
        (several of each type?)




        OK, and now the computer stuff
        ====================================

        The "working systems" include:  (these also include the power
        supplies)
        ------------------------------
        - Several Commodores (I think two are 64s, the other a 128), with
        monitor, floppies, joystick...

        - Another Commodore (64?) with floppy and really small printer

        - A flat grey Atari system box (don't remember the number), with
        monitor and keyboard

        - Amiga 1000(?): system box, monitor, kbd, mouse, floppy drive
        - extra Amiga boards

        - As many boxes of disks and diskettes as I could find...



        ALL OF THESE ARE BOXED UNLESS NOTED OTHERWISE!!!
        -------------------------------------------------
        One Atari 400
        One Atari 500
        Three Atari 800
        Two Atari 800XL
        Two Commodoare PET COLOR

        Four external disk drives - (I think 2 are 1581 or something like
        that, and the other 2 are different).
        Two Atari tape recorders
        One Atari tape recorder, not boxed

        Boards, cards, extenders, etc. for Atari

        Four Apple IIc monitors

        Two Tandy color computers
        One Tandy line printer (IV?) not boxed but with cover
        One Tandy floppy drive for CoCo
        One small box of fanfold paper.
        Some manuals for a Tandy 1000 (which I was not able to take)
        A small box of boards marked for the TRS80 Model II (didn't ID
        types, but there are probably 6 or 8 in the box)


        An original IBM PC keyboard (in IBM-blue-and-white box)
        Two other PC items (can't remember just now)
        Several cartons of IBM PC software, including early releases of:
        - Wordstar
        - Clipper
        - MS Excel
        - more...

        One Diablo 630 printer (with extra printwheels and ribbons! <VBG>),
        not boxed and VERY HEAVY!!!

        One Star Micronics printer (don't remember the number)
        Ribbons for a Star printer (But I don't know if they're for the
        above printer...)

        Two small boxes of manuals and documents for TI-99/4a

        One Atari TV game station
        Two Magnavox Oddessy systems, not boxed
           (if these have RCA-1802 microprocessors, I'm going to take one
        back for examination...)

        A bunch of unopened vinyl computer covers

        One Smith-Corona Electra 110(?) typewriter, not boxed

        Two cartons and a stack of other stuff, not identified... (I looked
        and saw; I just don't remember right now -- I think there were
        joysticks, a PONG game, and more...)

        Three small boxes of calculators
          WARNING: Evan is permitted to inspect these first and determine if
        any are worth adding to his collection!!
        A box of about 10 calculator covers

        One fairly modern modem

        ==================================================

        OK, I know there are more things that I haven't listed, but this is
        the best I can do at this time. We can double check on the 12th.

        (By the way, for the 12th (and afterward), we DO need tables,
        lights, and extension cords. (And hard hats?)
        And I would REALLY love it if somehow we get a hand truck or palette
        jack or something so that moving can be done with a lot less
        effort!!)

        BE ADVISED: there is very little room left on the shelves on the
        left side of the room! I'm sure this stuff can be condensed and re-
        organized, but I tried to keep things from getting too jammed, so
        that they are visible for inventorying and examination.


        Also, although he's a contractor doing a renovation, I explained to
        Lou that when someone donates stuff, we keep their name with the
        equipment, and I asked if he was interested in doing so. He laughed
        and said "You paid for it - it's yours, John!" So, when it comes to
        identifying where all this equipment came from, I think that I'd
        like to indicate that the original owner before me was David Z. We
        can get his full name and address from some of the boxes... Maybe we
        can also do some biographical research to find out more about his
        life and work...

        ===================================================

        So now you know "the rest of the story!" 

        ===================================================


        I look forward to hearing your thoughtful assessment of what this
        equipment is worth toward our museum's goals.

        Thanks,

        -John M.
        Montclair, NJ





      • Evan
        Three cheers for John! Great job! ... From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of john_apw Sent: Thursday,
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 4, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          Three cheers for John!  Great job!
          -----Original Message-----
          From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of john_apw
          Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 11:37 PM
          To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [midatlanticretro] Saga of the Commodores in Summit, NJ

          Gentlemen:

          This will be a rather detailed report of my activities in the matter
          of "Commodore Computers in Summit, NJ". ("Detailed" = long winded,
          but hopefully informative...)

          I saw the notice in the digest yesterday morning (Wednesday, 02 NOV
          2005) and I sent an email to Lou, the contact person.
          I received a phone call at about 11:30am. He told me that he had a
          number of old computers that his son was going to put up on eBay,
          but they were uncomfortable with shipping monitors, etc. He wanted
          his son to make some money, and when they checked the winning eBay
          bids for similar systems, they thought they might make $300 or $400,
          but it would involve a lot of work and time, trips to the Post
          Office, etc. To see if they could avoid the hassle, he contacted the
          winner and loser of an eBay auction to see if they would be
          interested. Instead, he was referred to the list. Thus the first
          message.

          I was preparing to arrange to see the equipment over the weekend
          when he expressed the urgency: the stuff was in a house being
          cleaned out and anything his son didn't take to sell that was still
          there on Friday (tomorrow) would go into the dumpster. I asked if I
          could come right over, and he said yes. An hour later I was there
          and found out what was going on.

          Seems that Lou is one of three guys who bought the house to re-
          develop, following the death at around age 80 of the sole owner, a
          fellow named David Z. Lou and his partners are preparing to gut and
          renovate the place, but the deceased had no relatives, and all his
          stuff was there, and it all has to be removed. Lou had someone buy
          furniture, etc. and when I explained the MARCH museum, he liked the
          idea that the stuff would go where it would be appreciated. So he
          gave me an exclusive on whatever I thought would be useful. He
          showed me around the place and I took mental notes. Then he
          mentioned that he had already removed some computers to his house,
          but would bring them back for me. Then he mentioned again that he
          wanted his son to get some money out of this. I told him we had no
          budget, but that I would see what I could do personally. He said he
          wanted $200, and I told him that I wasn't sure there was enough
          equipment to warrant that. But he hinted that I might change my mind
          when he brought back the other computers in the morning (Thursday).

          So, we agreed to gather all the computer stuff in the morning, and
          meanwhile he let me rummage around and take stuff I wanted. (Evan,
          this was when I was calling you to discuss truck rental, etc.
          Unfortunately, I can't take a Wurlitzer organ that Davi Z. built
          from kits...It's got a curved wood cabinet, two keyboards and stops,
          foot pedals and a cushioned bench; just too big for me to take it or
          store it...)

          Well, it seems that David was some sort of engineer and a total
          recluse. His little old house, with many tiny rooms, and little
          twisty passages, all alike, was packed wall-to-wall with radios,
          electronic components, audio equipment, computers, etc. He had one
          room with several systems on desks, another room set up like a
          repair shop, another with ham radio, and another with several
          computers, tons of software, and more components (looked just like
          the *old* Radio Shack store layouts!). This guy was a packrat of the
          most intense degree! He had a cache of empty boxes that he used for
          organizing all the equipment repair projects - from radios,
          telephone, to sewing machines, can openers, and food mixers! There
          must have been just dozens of empty boxes alone - not to mention all
          the shelves with boxes that had stuff in them...

          Mostly everything was carefully labeled, sometimes including notes
          about operational characteristics ("a few pixels bad", "motor noise
          in output audio", "this cable for xyz unit" etc.).

          So, on the theory that our local radio museum might be interested in
          some of the radio equipment, I started packing the car with
          shortwave radios, transistor radios, etc. Then I started packing
          test meters. Then I went for some of the spare parts. I also packed
          a typewriter and an old 1950's era HiFi. (Also a calculator or
          two...) In the long run, I decided that other stuff had more
          potential value than the small electronic components (resistors,
          diodes), so I left them behind.

          With the wagon full, I went home and planned for today. Lou had
          building inspectors coming in the morning so I wouldn't be able to
          start packing until around 10am. We agreed to touch base at 9am. I
          really had no place to unload into, so I decided I'd use the morning
          to bring the first load to the museum. Fred and I agreed to meet at
          InfoAge at 8:00 in the morning. He wouldn't be around after noon, so
          I was planning on a fast return to Summit, reload, and then back to
          InfoAge. I went to the bank and took out cash, wondering whether or
          not (besides the systems at the house) he'd have anything else
          worthwhile. I also went to Staples and bought a bunch of storage
          boxes.

          So this morning, I made the trip, got there, met Fred, and we
          unloaded the mostly radio stuff to a place in the basement just
          outside the room designated for our use. Fred showed me the inner
          room with all the shelves, and indicated that we could move the
          stuff into the inner room and onto the shelves at some later time
          (on the 12th, at least).

          I drove back, and on the way Lou called me to say that the
          inspectors would be late, so I should come back at 11. So instead of
          going straight to Summit and saving ~25 miles, I headed back home to
          handle some family business. That took longer than expected, so I
          called Lou and let him know. When I got there at about 11:30, he
          showed me the back of his pickup truck - LOADED with systems!!

          We packed all that stuff into my wagon, then I set to work on moving
          the (hopefully) working systems into the large boxes. Whenever
          possible, I did NOT unplug cables from devices; rather I carefully
          slid everything into the box together. It will take some care to
          untangle everything, but if we work on one system at a time, it
          shouldn't be a problem. (I felt that I had to do it this way in
          order to avoid losing the relationships between units unfamiliar to
          me - I didn't want unrelated things getting plugged in where they
          shouldn't...)  Meanwhile Lou searched the attic and retrieved a few
          more systems and disk drives.

          Two hours later, there was barely enough room in my car for me! I
          had systems, printers, software, manuals, etc. etc. etc. (list will
          follow below!) I could barely close the rear hatch!

          I left Summit just before 2pm, and called Fred on his cellphone to
          let him know, even though I knew he wasn't going to be at the
          museum. I got there right at 3pm, checked in, and prepared to unload.

          By 4pm, I had managed to move everything from the car AND from the
          earlier drop-off (on the floor) into the inner room, onto the
          shelves, and categorized roughly into groups of related things.

          My day ended with the trip home, and this report. Total time
          involved: yesterday ~ 5 hours, today ~9 hours. Miles driven: ~320.
          Money spent $200 on equipment, $48 on boxes (not all were used),
          plus gas (~$30). Phone calls: unallocated part of my monthly
          minutes. Assessment: Well, I don't know about you, but I feel pretty
          good about it!

          !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


          OK, so what's in the basement?

          Let me start with the non-computer stuff that we can use(?), or
          give, sell, or barter with:

          Radios
          =====================
          About 20 or 30 of various types (6 transistor, 8 trans, 12 trans, to
          other portable shortware receivers). Various makes and models,
          including a few Archer/Radio Shack, and some I don't recognize.
          (NOTE: Some have batteries in them and they should be removed on the
          12th)

          One Hi-Fi, probably early 1960's.

          One cool desktop set with big dials, and a matching external
          speaker, both in metal housings. Also two cigar boxes, one
          containing photos of some people with the radio, presumably one of
          the guys is David, and another cigar box filled with postcards from
          the other ham/shortwave operators he made contact with. I believe
          these additional materials may add value to whatever the hardware is
          worth...

          A box of vacuum tubes! Some used, but many in their individual
          boxes.

          Radio - Miscellaneous
          =======================
          A really cool FRAMED, COLOR chart of allocated and unallocated radio
          frequencies in the Atlantic City area in 1947!!!
          (The radio guys will wet their pants when they see this!!)


          Meters and test equipment
          =========================
          Several VOMs; I think one was built from a kit.

          A radio frequency generator, I think built from a kit.

          A REALLY BIG and REALLY COOL LOOKING meter for measuring radio
          signals.

          Some other radio signal test stuff.

          A resistor selection box and a capacitor selection box.

          Two separate meters (one volts, one amps?), and rack-panel of meters
          (several of each type?)




          OK, and now the computer stuff
          ====================================

          The "working systems" include:  (these also include the power
          supplies)
          ------------------------------
          - Several Commodores (I think two are 64s, the other a 128), with
          monitor, floppies, joystick...

          - Another Commodore (64?) with floppy and really small printer

          - A flat grey Atari system box (don't remember the number), with
          monitor and keyboard

          - Amiga 1000(?): system box, monitor, kbd, mouse, floppy drive
          - extra Amiga boards

          - As many boxes of disks and diskettes as I could find...



          ALL OF THESE ARE BOXED UNLESS NOTED OTHERWISE!!!
          -------------------------------------------------
          One Atari 400
          One Atari 500
          Three Atari 800
          Two Atari 800XL
          Two Commodoare PET COLOR

          Four external disk drives - (I think 2 are 1581 or something like
          that, and the other 2 are different).
          Two Atari tape recorders
          One Atari tape recorder, not boxed

          Boards, cards, extenders, etc. for Atari

          Four Apple IIc monitors

          Two Tandy color computers
          One Tandy line printer (IV?) not boxed but with cover
          One Tandy floppy drive for CoCo
          One small box of fanfold paper.
          Some manuals for a Tandy 1000 (which I was not able to take)
          A small box of boards marked for the TRS80 Model II (didn't ID
          types, but there are probably 6 or 8 in the box)


          An original IBM PC keyboard (in IBM-blue-and-white box)
          Two other PC items (can't remember just now)
          Several cartons of IBM PC software, including early releases of:
          - Wordstar
          - Clipper
          - MS Excel
          - more...

          One Diablo 630 printer (with extra printwheels and ribbons! <VBG>),
          not boxed and VERY HEAVY!!!

          One Star Micronics printer (don't remember the number)
          Ribbons for a Star printer (But I don't know if they're for the
          above printer...)

          Two small boxes of manuals and documents for TI-99/4a

          One Atari TV game station
          Two Magnavox Oddessy systems, not boxed
             (if these have RCA-1802 microprocessors, I'm going to take one
          back for examination...)

          A bunch of unopened vinyl computer covers

          One Smith-Corona Electra 110(?) typewriter, not boxed

          Two cartons and a stack of other stuff, not identified... (I looked
          and saw; I just don't remember right now -- I think there were
          joysticks, a PONG game, and more...)

          Three small boxes of calculators
            WARNING: Evan is permitted to inspect these first and determine if
          any are worth adding to his collection!!
          A box of about 10 calculator covers

          One fairly modern modem

          ==================================================

          OK, I know there are more things that I haven't listed, but this is
          the best I can do at this time. We can double check on the 12th.

          (By the way, for the 12th (and afterward), we DO need tables,
          lights, and extension cords. (And hard hats?)
          And I would REALLY love it if somehow we get a hand truck or palette
          jack or something so that moving can be done with a lot less
          effort!!)

          BE ADVISED: there is very little room left on the shelves on the
          left side of the room! I'm sure this stuff can be condensed and re-
          organized, but I tried to keep things from getting too jammed, so
          that they are visible for inventorying and examination.


          Also, although he's a contractor doing a renovation, I explained to
          Lou that when someone donates stuff, we keep their name with the
          equipment, and I asked if he was interested in doing so. He laughed
          and said "You paid for it - it's yours, John!" So, when it comes to
          identifying where all this equipment came from, I think that I'd
          like to indicate that the original owner before me was David Z. We
          can get his full name and address from some of the boxes... Maybe we
          can also do some biographical research to find out more about his
          life and work...

          ===================================================

          So now you know "the rest of the story!" 

          ===================================================


          I look forward to hearing your thoughtful assessment of what this
          equipment is worth toward our museum's goals.

          Thanks,

          -John M.
          Montclair, NJ





        • Degnan
          John, I wish to add to my earlier remarks that the money spent is really inconsquential compared to the great haul...I don t want to seem critical of what you
          Message 4 of 7 , Nov 4, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            John,
            I wish to add to my earlier remarks that the money spent is really
            inconsquential compared to the great haul...I don't want to seem
            critical of what you did in the bigger picture for MARCH and vintage
            computing. I would have done the same thing.
            Bill D
          • Jim Scheef
            Yea!
            Message 5 of 7 , Nov 4, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              Yea!

              --- john_apw <infomagic@...> wrote:

              > Gentlemen:
              >
              > This will be a rather detailed report of my activities in the matter
              > of "Commodore Computers in Summit, NJ". ("Detailed" = long winded,
              > but hopefully informative...)
              >
              > I saw the notice in the digest yesterday morning (Wednesday, 02 NOV
              > 2005) and I sent an email to Lou, the contact person.
              > I received a phone call at about 11:30am. He told me that he had a
              > number of old computers that his son was going to put up on eBay,
              > but they were uncomfortable with shipping monitors, etc. He wanted
              > his son to make some money, and when they checked the winning eBay
              > bids for similar systems, they thought they might make $300 or $400,
              > but it would involve a lot of work and time, trips to the Post
              > Office, etc. To see if they could avoid the hassle, he contacted the
              > winner and loser of an eBay auction to see if they would be
              > interested. Instead, he was referred to the list. Thus the first
              > message.
              >
              > I was preparing to arrange to see the equipment over the weekend
              > when he expressed the urgency: the stuff was in a house being
              > cleaned out and anything his son didn't take to sell that was still
              > there on Friday (tomorrow) would go into the dumpster. I asked if I
              > could come right over, and he said yes. An hour later I was there
              > and found out what was going on.
              >
              > Seems that Lou is one of three guys who bought the house to re-
              > develop, following the death at around age 80 of the sole owner, a
              > fellow named David Z. Lou and his partners are preparing to gut and
              > renovate the place, but the deceased had no relatives, and all his
              > stuff was there, and it all has to be removed. Lou had someone buy
              > furniture, etc. and when I explained the MARCH museum, he liked the
              > idea that the stuff would go where it would be appreciated. So he
              > gave me an exclusive on whatever I thought would be useful. He
              > showed me around the place and I took mental notes. Then he
              > mentioned that he had already removed some computers to his house,
              > but would bring them back for me. Then he mentioned again that he
              > wanted his son to get some money out of this. I told him we had no
              > budget, but that I would see what I could do personally. He said he
              > wanted $200, and I told him that I wasn't sure there was enough
              > equipment to warrant that. But he hinted that I might change my mind
              > when he brought back the other computers in the morning (Thursday).
              >
              > So, we agreed to gather all the computer stuff in the morning, and
              > meanwhile he let me rummage around and take stuff I wanted. (Evan,
              > this was when I was calling you to discuss truck rental, etc.
              > Unfortunately, I can't take a Wurlitzer organ that Davi Z. built
              > from kits...It's got a curved wood cabinet, two keyboards and stops,
              > foot pedals and a cushioned bench; just too big for me to take it or
              > store it...)
              >
              > Well, it seems that David was some sort of engineer and a total
              > recluse. His little old house, with many tiny rooms, and little
              > twisty passages, all alike, was packed wall-to-wall with radios,
              > electronic components, audio equipment, computers, etc. He had one
              > room with several systems on desks, another room set up like a
              > repair shop, another with ham radio, and another with several
              > computers, tons of software, and more components (looked just like
              > the *old* Radio Shack store layouts!). This guy was a packrat of the
              > most intense degree! He had a cache of empty boxes that he used for
              > organizing all the equipment repair projects - from radios,
              > telephone, to sewing machines, can openers, and food mixers! There
              > must have been just dozens of empty boxes alone - not to mention all
              > the shelves with boxes that had stuff in them...
              >
              > Mostly everything was carefully labeled, sometimes including notes
              > about operational characteristics ("a few pixels bad", "motor noise
              > in output audio", "this cable for xyz unit" etc.).
              >
              > So, on the theory that our local radio museum might be interested in
              > some of the radio equipment, I started packing the car with
              > shortwave radios, transistor radios, etc. Then I started packing
              > test meters. Then I went for some of the spare parts. I also packed
              > a typewriter and an old 1950's era HiFi. (Also a calculator or
              > two...) In the long run, I decided that other stuff had more
              > potential value than the small electronic components (resistors,
              > diodes), so I left them behind.
              >
              > With the wagon full, I went home and planned for today. Lou had
              > building inspectors coming in the morning so I wouldn't be able to
              > start packing until around 10am. We agreed to touch base at 9am. I
              > really had no place to unload into, so I decided I'd use the morning
              > to bring the first load to the museum. Fred and I agreed to meet at
              > InfoAge at 8:00 in the morning. He wouldn't be around after noon, so
              > I was planning on a fast return to Summit, reload, and then back to
              > InfoAge. I went to the bank and took out cash, wondering whether or
              > not (besides the systems at the house) he'd have anything else
              > worthwhile. I also went to Staples and bought a bunch of storage
              > boxes.
              >
              > So this morning, I made the trip, got there, met Fred, and we
              > unloaded the mostly radio stuff to a place in the basement just
              > outside the room designated for our use. Fred showed me the inner
              > room with all the shelves, and indicated that we could move the
              > stuff into the inner room and onto the shelves at some later time
              > (on the 12th, at least).
              >
              > I drove back, and on the way Lou called me to say that the
              > inspectors would be late, so I should come back at 11. So instead of
              > going straight to Summit and saving ~25 miles, I headed back home to
              > handle some family business. That took longer than expected, so I
              > called Lou and let him know. When I got there at about 11:30, he
              > showed me the back of his pickup truck - LOADED with systems!!
              >
              > We packed all that stuff into my wagon, then I set to work on moving
              > the (hopefully) working systems into the large boxes. Whenever
              > possible, I did NOT unplug cables from devices; rather I carefully
              > slid everything into the box together. It will take some care to
              > untangle everything, but if we work on one system at a time, it
              > shouldn't be a problem. (I felt that I had to do it this way in
              > order to avoid losing the relationships between units unfamiliar to
              > me - I didn't want unrelated things getting plugged in where they
              > shouldn't...) Meanwhile Lou searched the attic and retrieved a few
              > more systems and disk drives.
              >
              > Two hours later, there was barely enough room in my car for me! I
              > had systems, printers, software, manuals, etc. etc. etc. (list will
              > follow below!) I could barely close the rear hatch!
              >
              > I left Summit just before 2pm, and called Fred on his cellphone to
              > let him know, even though I knew he wasn't going to be at the
              > museum. I got there right at 3pm, checked in, and prepared to unload.
              >
              > By 4pm, I had managed to move everything from the car AND from the
              > earlier drop-off (on the floor) into the inner room, onto the
              > shelves, and categorized roughly into groups of related things.
              >
              > My day ended with the trip home, and this report. Total time
              > involved: yesterday ~ 5 hours, today ~9 hours. Miles driven: ~320.
              > Money spent $200 on equipment, $48 on boxes (not all were used),
              > plus gas (~$30). Phone calls: unallocated part of my monthly
              > minutes. Assessment: Well, I don't know about you, but I feel pretty
              > good about it!
              >
              > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
              >
              >
              > OK, so what's in the basement?
              >
              > Let me start with the non-computer stuff that we can use(?), or
              > give, sell, or barter with:
              >
              > Radios
              > =====================
              > About 20 or 30 of various types (6 transistor, 8 trans, 12 trans, to
              > other portable shortware receivers). Various makes and models,
              > including a few Archer/Radio Shack, and some I don't recognize.
              > (NOTE: Some have batteries in them and they should be removed on the
              > 12th)
              >
              > One Hi-Fi, probably early 1960's.
              >
              > One cool desktop set with big dials, and a matching external
              > speaker, both in metal housings. Also two cigar boxes, one
              > containing photos of some people with the radio, presumably one of
              > the guys is David, and another cigar box filled with postcards from
              > the other ham/shortwave operators he made contact with. I believe
              > these additional materials may add value to whatever the hardware is
              > worth...
              >
              > A box of vacuum tubes! Some used, but many in their individual
              > boxes.
              >
              > Radio - Miscellaneous
              > =======================
              > A really cool FRAMED, COLOR chart of allocated and unallocated radio
              > frequencies in the Atlantic City area in 1947!!!
              > (The radio guys will wet their pants when they see this!!)
              >
              >
              > Meters and test equipment
              > =========================
              > Several VOMs; I think one was built from a kit.
              >
              > A radio frequency generator, I think built from a kit.
              >
              > A REALLY BIG and REALLY COOL LOOKING meter for measuring radio
              > signals.
              >
              > Some other radio signal test stuff.
              >
              > A resistor selection box and a capacitor selection box.
              >
              > Two separate meters (one volts, one amps?), and rack-panel of meters
              > (several of each type?)
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > OK, and now the computer stuff
              > ====================================
              >
              > The "working systems" include: (these also include the power
              > supplies)
              > ------------------------------
              > - Several Commodores (I think two are 64s, the other a 128), with
              > monitor, floppies, joystick...
              >
              > - Another Commodore (64?) with floppy and really small printer
              >
              > - A flat grey Atari system box (don't remember the number), with
              > monitor and keyboard
              >
              > - Amiga 1000(?): system box, monitor, kbd, mouse, floppy drive
              > - extra Amiga boards
              >
              > - As many boxes of disks and diskettes as I could find...
              >
              >
              >
              > ALL OF THESE ARE BOXED UNLESS NOTED OTHERWISE!!!
              > -------------------------------------------------
              > One Atari 400
              > One Atari 500
              > Three Atari 800
              > Two Atari 800XL
              > Two Commodoare PET COLOR
              >
              > Four external disk drives - (I think 2 are 1581 or something like
              > that, and the other 2 are different).
              > Two Atari tape recorders
              > One Atari tape recorder, not boxed
              >
              > Boards, cards, extenders, etc. for Atari
              >
              > Four Apple IIc monitors
              >
              > Two Tandy color computers
              > One Tandy line printer (IV?) not boxed but with cover
              > One Tandy floppy drive for CoCo
              > One small box of fanfold paper.
              > Some manuals for a Tandy 1000 (which I was not able to take)
              > A small box of boards marked for the TRS80 Model II (didn't ID
              > types, but there are probably 6 or 8 in the box)
              >
              >
              > An original IBM PC keyboard (in IBM-blue-and-white box)
              > Two other PC items (can't remember just now)
              > Several cartons of IBM PC software, including early releases of:
              > - Wordstar
              > - Clipper
              > - MS Excel
              > - more...
              >
              > One Diablo 630 printer (with extra printwheels and ribbons! <VBG>),
              > not boxed and VERY HEAVY!!!
              >
              > One Star Micronics printer (don't remember the number)
              > Ribbons for a Star printer (But I don't know if they're for the
              > above printer...)
              >
              > Two small boxes of manuals and documents for TI-99/4a
              >
              > One Atari TV game station
              > Two Magnavox Oddessy systems, not boxed
              > (if these have RCA-1802 microprocessors, I'm going to take one
              > back for examination...)
              >
              > A bunch of unopened vinyl computer covers
              >
              > One Smith-Corona Electra 110(?) typewriter, not boxed
              >
              > Two cartons and a stack of other stuff, not identified... (I looked
              > and saw; I just don't remember right now -- I think there were
              > joysticks, a PONG game, and more...)
              >
              > Three small boxes of calculators
              > WARNING: Evan is permitted to inspect these first and determine if
              > any are worth adding to his collection!!
              > A box of about 10 calculator covers
              >
              > One fairly modern modem
              >
              > ==================================================
              >
              > OK, I know there are more things that I haven't listed, but this is
              > the best I can do at this time. We can double check on the 12th.
              >
              > (By the way, for the 12th (and afterward), we DO need tables,
              > lights, and extension cords. (And hard hats?)
              > And I would REALLY love it if somehow we get a hand truck or palette
              > jack or something so that moving can be done with a lot less
              > effort!!)
              >
              > BE ADVISED: there is very little room left on the shelves on the
              > left side of the room! I'm sure this stuff can be condensed and re-
              > organized, but I tried to keep things from getting too jammed, so
              > that they are visible for inventorying and examination.
              >
              >
              > Also, although he's a contractor doing a renovation, I explained to
              > Lou that when someone donates stuff, we keep their name with the
              > equipment, and I asked if he was interested in doing so. He laughed
              > and said "You paid for it - it's yours, John!" So, when it comes to
              > identifying where all this equipment came from, I think that I'd
              > like to indicate that the original owner before me was David Z. We
              > can get his full name and address from some of the boxes... Maybe we
              > can also do some biographical research to find out more about his
              > life and work...
              >
              > ===================================================
              >
              > So now you know "the rest of the story!"
              >
              > ===================================================
              >
              >
              > I look forward to hearing your thoughtful assessment of what this
              > equipment is worth toward our museum's goals.
              >
              > Thanks,
              >
              > -John M.
              > Montclair, NJ
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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