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Re: [midatlanticretro] Re: Rare Commodore Plus/4 1984 Olympic Edition

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  • Bob Applegate
    An easier approach, assuming there is room, is to build the device you want on a daughterboard that simply plugs into the original socket. That way you can do
    Message 1 of 27 , Sep 30, 2005
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      An easier approach, assuming there is room, is to build the device you want on a
      daughterboard that simply plugs into the original socket.  That way you can do the
      new logic anyway you want, but it's still "pin compatible" with the device it's replacing.
      This was very common, especially in the 70s and 80s.  All kinds of changes to
      commercial products were done that way.
       
      Of course, this assumes you've got the room for the new PC board floating above
      the existing circuitry.  In a tight area, this might not be true.
       
      Bob
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 12:42 PM
      Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Re: Rare Commodore Plus/4 1984 Olympic Edition

      Bob, Bill, all,

      My extreemly limited experience in this vein involves EPROMs to replace ROMs
      in the HP Portable Plus. The problem was the pin configuration of the EPROMs.
      We needed 128K (1M bit) EPROMs to add custom software to the 'ROM Drawer' of
      the PPlus. There were plenty of such chips but they all had two pins too many
      (one extra on each side). Finally someone found a 128K EPROM with the right
      pins and we were off to the races.

      To replace the proprietary chips in anything you need both the same
      functionality and the same pin configuration. Each pin must have the same
      signal as the original chip.

      Isn't what these chips did now called digital signal processing?

      Jim

      --- Bob Applegate <bob@...> wrote:

      > I don't know anything about the TED chip, but if you want to emulate it
      > with an
      > FPGA, it's very easy to toss in one or more soft-core processors.  There
      > are
      > numerous free IP processor cores out there, as well as some very pricey
      > proprietary ones.  Altera and Xilinx (the main FPGA players) both "give
      > away"
      > their cores.  We explored doing this for some projects, but the processors
      > weren't powerful enough to move the quantity of data we needed.
      >
      > I'm not aware of any FPGAs with DACs in them, but explore the
      > manufacturer's
      > web sites to see if you can find something.
      >
      > Bob
      >
      > -------------------------------------------------
      > Bob Applegate
      > Senior Software Engineer
      > Embedded Development Group
      > Ulticom, Inc
      > 856-787-2761
      >
      >   ----- Original Message -----
      >   From: billdeg@...
      >   To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
      >   Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:24 PM
      >   Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Re: Rare Commodore Plus/4 1984 Olympic
      > Edition
      >
      >
      >   I believe that the TED chip does more than just what you're asking the
      > FPGA
      >   to do, the TED is the processor as well.  Or maybe I am missing your
      > point. 
      >   There is no replacement, but I do know that these chips had markings on
      > them
      >   other than 8501R1, I think that there is a 7501R1 as well, but it's still
      > a TED
      >   chip, just an earlier version.  I'd have to look on the web for more
      > info.
      >   Bill
      >
      >   In a message dated 9/29/2005 10:02:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
      >   relayer@... writes:
      >
      >   > Does anybody know if is even remotely plausable to replace the
      >   >  increasingly rare TED chip with a FPGA that was programmed with the
      >   >  same functionality? Do FPGA's have analog outputs?
      >   > 
      >   >  I know this is a far reaching concept. I'm working with PICs right now
      >   >  as I move my way to tackling FPGA architecture. PICs have analog I/O
      >   >  that has been used to create NTSC output. I don't see where an FPGA
      >   >  with analog I/O couldn't generate an NTSC or PAL output to simulate
      >   >  TED output.
      >
      >
      >   SPONSORED LINKS Vintage computer  Field trip  Computer security 
      >         Computer training 
      >
      >
      >
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    • chrism3667
      If there was any reason not to implement a solution using FPGA s or whatever, you could build a big board ;) and run a cable inside the puter. For some designs
      Message 2 of 27 , Sep 30, 2005
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        If there was any reason not to implement a solution using FPGA's or
        whatever, you could build a big board ;) and run a cable inside the
        puter. For some designs I suppose a hand trolley would be in order
        YUCK YUCK YUCK

        --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Applegate" <bob@a...>
        wrote:
        > An easier approach, assuming there is room, is to build the device
        you want on a
        > daughterboard that simply plugs into the original socket. That way
        you can do the
        > new logic anyway you want, but it's still "pin compatible" with the
        device it's replacing.
        > This was very common, especially in the 70s and 80s. All kinds of
        changes to
        > commercial products were done that way.
        >
        > Of course, this assumes you've got the room for the new PC board
        floating above
        > the existing circuitry. In a tight area, this might not be true.
        >
        > Bob
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Jim Scheef
        > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 12:42 PM
        > Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Re: Rare Commodore Plus/4 1984
        Olympic Edition
        >
        >
        > Bob, Bill, all,
        >
        > My extreemly limited experience in this vein involves EPROMs to
        replace ROMs
        > in the HP Portable Plus. The problem was the pin configuration of
        the EPROMs.
        > We needed 128K (1M bit) EPROMs to add custom software to the 'ROM
        Drawer' of
        > the PPlus. There were plenty of such chips but they all had two
        pins too many
        > (one extra on each side). Finally someone found a 128K EPROM with
        the right
        > pins and we were off to the races.
        >
        > To replace the proprietary chips in anything you need both the
        same
        > functionality and the same pin configuration. Each pin must have
        the same
        > signal as the original chip.
        >
        > Isn't what these chips did now called digital signal processing?
        >
        > Jim
        >
        > --- Bob Applegate <bob@a...> wrote:
        >
        > > I don't know anything about the TED chip, but if you want to
        emulate it
        > > with an
        > > FPGA, it's very easy to toss in one or more soft-core
        processors. There
        > > are
        > > numerous free IP processor cores out there, as well as some
        very pricey
        > > proprietary ones. Altera and Xilinx (the main FPGA players)
        both "give
        > > away"
        > > their cores. We explored doing this for some projects, but the
        processors
        > > weren't powerful enough to move the quantity of data we needed.
        > >
        > > I'm not aware of any FPGAs with DACs in them, but explore the
        > > manufacturer's
        > > web sites to see if you can find something.
        > >
        > > Bob
        > >
        > > -------------------------------------------------
        > > Bob Applegate
        > > Senior Software Engineer
        > > Embedded Development Group
        > > Ulticom, Inc
        > > 856-787-2761
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: billdeg@a...
        > > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:24 PM
        > > Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Re: Rare Commodore Plus/4
        1984 Olympic
        > > Edition
        > >
        > >
        > > I believe that the TED chip does more than just what you're
        asking the
        > > FPGA
        > > to do, the TED is the processor as well. Or maybe I am
        missing your
        > > point.
        > > There is no replacement, but I do know that these chips had
        markings on
        > > them
        > > other than 8501R1, I think that there is a 7501R1 as well,
        but it's still
        > > a TED
        > > chip, just an earlier version. I'd have to look on the web
        for more
        > > info.
        > > Bill
        > >
        > > In a message dated 9/29/2005 10:02:21 AM Eastern Standard
        Time,
        > > relayer@y... writes:
        > >
        > > > Does anybody know if is even remotely plausable to replace
        the
        > > > increasingly rare TED chip with a FPGA that was programmed
        with the
        > > > same functionality? Do FPGA's have analog outputs?
        > > >
        > > > I know this is a far reaching concept. I'm working with
        PICs right now
        > > > as I move my way to tackling FPGA architecture. PICs have
        analog I/O
        > > > that has been used to create NTSC output. I don't see
        where an FPGA
        > > > with analog I/O couldn't generate an NTSC or PAL output to
        simulate
        > > > TED output.
        > >
        > >
        > > SPONSORED LINKS Vintage computer Field trip Computer
        security
        > > Computer training
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------
        ------------
        > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
        > >
        > > a.. Visit your group "midatlanticretro" on the web.
        > >
        > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > > midatlanticretro-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > >
        > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
        Terms of
        > > Service.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------
        ------------
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > SPONSORED LINKS Vintage computer Field trip Computer security
        > Computer training
        >
        >
        > --------------------------------------------------------------------
        ----------
        > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
        >
        > a.. Visit your group "midatlanticretro" on the web.
        >
        > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > midatlanticretro-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
        of Service.
        >
        >
        > --------------------------------------------------------------------
        ----------
      • billdeg@aol.com
        All of this may be true, but from a practical perspective and specifically for the Commodore Plus/4 I have never heard of anyone successfully reproducing the
        Message 3 of 27 , Sep 30, 2005
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          All of this may be true, but from a practical perspective and specifically for the Commodore Plus/4 I have never heard of anyone successfully reproducing the TED chip.  If you have a dead TED, get another Plus/4 or C16 for $15.  It's not really worth the effort.
           
          My original point was that there is a commemorative Plus/4 out there, and that even if it's dead, you can replace the chip pretty easily by sacrificing a regular plus/4.
           
          Bill
           
           
          In a message dated 9/30/2005 1:25:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jscheef@... writes:
          Bob, Bill, all,

          My extreemly limited experience in this vein involves EPROMs to replace ROMs
          in the HP Portable Plus. The problem was the pin configuration of the EPROMs.
          We needed 128K (1M bit) EPROMs to add custom software to the 'ROM Drawer' of
          the PPlus. There were plenty of such chips but they all had two pins too many
          (one extra on each side). Finally someone found a 128K EPROM with the right
          pins and we were off to the races.

          To replace the proprietary chips in anything you need both the same
          functionality and the same pin configuration. Each pin must have the same
          signal as the original chip.

          Isn't what these chips did now called digital signal processing?

          Jim
           
        • Jim Scheef
          Message 4 of 27 , Sep 30, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            <strong chuckle>

            --- Evan <evan947@...> wrote:

            > Vintro.
            >
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