Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [midatlanticretro] makeshift IBM monitor

Expand Messages
  • B Degnan
    Let me know if you want help. The MARCH museum has the same model. To clean rust from the chassis, use CLR. Also, don t test the system until you first
    Message 1 of 23 , Jun 1 4:26 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      Let me know if you want help.  The MARCH museum has the same model.  To clean rust from the chassis, use CLR.  Also, don't test the system until you first remove all of the cards, and clean it out, etc.  Start with just the power supply.  Is it the original black or has it been upgraded.  This would be a good project.
      Bill

      Joe Giliberti wrote:
      there is a bit of rust on the cover, but not significant. I'm using a random AT keyboard, as I do not have a model M

      On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 10:13 PM, B Degnan <billdeg@...> wrote:


      Joe Giliberti wrote:
      I picked up a 5150 from someone's bulk pickup pile. The motherboard is marked as 16-64KB. It has two 5.25" full height drives. It has markings that indicate that it was used by Bendix. It has a color graphics board, and two boards made by Quadram. I have no CGA monitor. What does the RCA connector on the graphics board put out? Is it composite, RF, or something else? If not, can a VGA be adapted?

      Thanks
      Wow you found an original "A" model in the trash!  Great find.  Worth preserving.  Best thing to do is find a CGA monitor from IBM.  You could sell this for $250 if you get it running.

      Bill


    • Mr Ian Primus
      ... An AT keyboard will not work on this machine. You need an XT keyboard. The plugs are the same, but the protocol is different. Some early AT keyboards also
      Message 2 of 23 , Jun 1 4:56 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        --- On Sun, 5/31/09, Joe Giliberti <Starbase89@...> wrote:

        >there is a bit of rust on the cover, but not significant. I'm using a >random AT keyboard, as I do not have a model M

        An AT keyboard will not work on this machine. You need an XT keyboard. The plugs are the same, but the protocol is different. Some early AT keyboards also have a switch (sometimes hidden behind a little panel in th bottom) to switch between AT and XT modes.

        The original CGA card has RCA plugs on it, and if I remember correctly, it should be composite video. But, I do believe that the composite video output does not support all video modes that the CGA card can do. Your best bet is to find a real monitor...

        You can't connect the CGA card to a VGA monitor, but you CAN use (with limited color palette), an analog RGB monitor, such as the ones used on the Commodore Amiga. CGA is a digital RGB, and uses an intensity line. The analog monitors will display the digital signal, but can't use the intensity line - so all the "light" colors come out as the same color as their "bright" counterparts. It's usable though.

        -Ian
      • Bill Degnan
        May I add that this is quite a lucky find, you may never get such a rare system in the trash ever again, you take this as an opportunity to perform a serious
        Message 3 of 23 , Jun 1 6:38 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          May I add that this is quite a lucky find, you may never get such a rare
          system in the trash ever again, you take this as an opportunity to perform
          a serious restoration/save. Learn about what you have and make the most of
          the experience. Don't try to hook this up to the Internet, try to return
          the computer to original condition. Don't power this up until you're
          confident you have tested the power, removed all cards and unhooked power
          to the motherboard, etc.
          Bill

          -------- Original Message --------
          > From: "Mr Ian Primus" <ian_primus@...>
          > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 8:08 AM
          > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] makeshift IBM monitor
          >
          > --- On Sun, 5/31/09, Joe Giliberti <Starbase89@...> wrote:
          >
          > >there is a bit of rust on the cover, but not significant. I'm using a
          >random AT keyboard, as I do not have a model M
          >
          > An AT keyboard will not work on this machine. You need an XT keyboard.
          The plugs are the same, but the protocol is different. Some early AT
          keyboards also have a switch (sometimes hidden behind a little panel in th
          bottom) to switch between AT and XT modes.
          >
          > The original CGA card has RCA plugs on it, and if I remember correctly,
          it should be composite video. But, I do believe that the composite video
          output does not support all video modes that the CGA card can do. Your best
          bet is to find a real monitor...
          >
          > You can't connect the CGA card to a VGA monitor, but you CAN use (with
          limited color palette), an analog RGB monitor, such as the ones used on the
          Commodore Amiga. CGA is a digital RGB, and uses an intensity line. The
          analog monitors will display the digital signal, but can't use the
          intensity line - so all the "light" colors come out as the same color as
          their "bright" counterparts. It's usable though.
          >
          > -Ian
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • Joe Giliberti
          All I ve done thus far is apply power to the power supply (which is original). What are the voltages supposed to be going into the mainboard? I want to check
          Message 4 of 23 , Jun 1 11:43 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            All I've done thus far is apply power to the power supply (which is original). What are the voltages supposed to be going into the mainboard? I want to check with a multimeter before hooking it to the motherboard.  It appears to have the co-processor installed. I do plan on doing a methodological, slow restore on it.

            Aside from resocketing chips and removing dust, what is the procedure for checking the motherboard?

            Joe
             

            On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Bill Degnan <billdeg@...> wrote:


            May I add that this is quite a lucky find, you may never get such a rare
            system in the trash ever again, you take this as an opportunity to perform
            a serious restoration/save. Learn about what you have and make the most of
            the experience. Don't try to hook this up to the Internet, try to return
            the computer to original condition. Don't power this up until you're
            confident you have tested the power, removed all cards and unhooked power
            to the motherboard, etc.
            Bill



            -------- Original Message --------
            > From: "Mr Ian Primus" <ian_primus@...>
            > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 8:08 AM
            > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] makeshift IBM monitor
            >
            > --- On Sun, 5/31/09, Joe Giliberti <Starbase89@...> wrote:
            >
            > >there is a bit of rust on the cover, but not significant. I'm using a
            >random AT keyboard, as I do not have a model M
            >
            > An AT keyboard will not work on this machine. You need an XT keyboard.
            The plugs are the same, but the protocol is different. Some early AT
            keyboards also have a switch (sometimes hidden behind a little panel in th
            bottom) to switch between AT and XT modes.
            >
            > The original CGA card has RCA plugs on it, and if I remember correctly,
            it should be composite video. But, I do believe that the composite video
            output does not support all video modes that the CGA card can do. Your best
            bet is to find a real monitor...
            >
            > You can't connect the CGA card to a VGA monitor, but you CAN use (with
            limited color palette), an analog RGB monitor, such as the ones used on the
            Commodore Amiga. CGA is a digital RGB, and uses an intensity line. The
            analog monitors will display the digital signal, but can't use the
            intensity line - so all the "light" colors come out as the same color as
            their "bright" counterparts. It's usable though.
            >
            > -Ian
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >


          • Brian Cirulnick
            ... Which I have. Joe, I m fairly certian (I m at work right now and can t confirm) that I have an IBM manufactured CGA monitor (it s either color or
            Message 5 of 23 , Jun 1 11:49 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Mr Ian Primus <ian_primus@...> wrote:
              >
              > The original CGA card has RCA plugs on it, and if I remember correctly, it should be composite video. But, I do believe that the composite video output does not support all video modes that the CGA card can do. Your best bet is to find a real monitor...
              ------------------------------

              Which I have.

              Joe, I'm fairly certian (I'm at work right now and can't confirm) that I have an IBM manufactured CGA monitor (it's either color or monochrome) that's somewhat period correct.

              I need to test if it works, but it's yours if you want it. Then all you need to find is the correct keyboard for a complete system.

              Not sure where you live, but I'm in Belleville NJ, if you're willing to take a drive to my place one evening, you can pick it up.

              Either that, or wait for the next MARCH event, and I'll toss it your way then (keep reminding me, I forget easily).

              Let me know what you'd prefer.

              TTYL
              Brian C.
            • Joe Giliberti
              Thank you! I think the next time at infoage is best, as I am 70 miles south of you, but I ll see if I feel like taking the drive someday. Thanks again Joe
              Message 6 of 23 , Jun 1 11:52 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                Thank you!
                I think the next time at infoage is best, as I am 70 miles south of you, but I'll see if I feel like taking the drive someday.

                Thanks again
                Joe

                On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Brian Cirulnick <techrat@...> wrote:


                --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Mr Ian Primus <ian_primus@...> wrote:
                >
                > The original CGA card has RCA plugs on it, and if I remember correctly, it should be composite video. But, I do believe that the composite video output does not support all video modes that the CGA card can do. Your best bet is to find a real monitor...
                ------------------------------

                Which I have.

                Joe, I'm fairly certian (I'm at work right now and can't confirm) that I have an IBM manufactured CGA monitor (it's either color or monochrome) that's somewhat period correct.

                I need to test if it works, but it's yours if you want it. Then all you need to find is the correct keyboard for a complete system.

                Not sure where you live, but I'm in Belleville NJ, if you're willing to take a drive to my place one evening, you can pick it up.

                Either that, or wait for the next MARCH event, and I'll toss it your way then (keep reminding me, I forget easily).

                Let me know what you'd prefer.

                TTYL
                Brian C.


              • Evan Koblentz
                ... Brian, why don t I get the monitor from you, then I ll bring it to the museum. Joe lives close the museum and often comes there on weekends.
                Message 7 of 23 , Jun 1 11:54 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  >
                  > Not sure where you live, but I'm in Belleville NJ, if you're willing to take a drive to my place one evening, you can pick it up.
                  >
                  > Either that, or wait for the next MARCH event, and I'll toss it your way then (keep reminding me, I forget easily).
                  >
                  > Let me know what you'd prefer.
                  >
                  > TTYL
                  > Brian C.
                  >
                  Brian, why don't I get the monitor from you, then I'll bring it to the
                  museum. Joe lives close the museum and often comes there on weekends.
                • Bill Degnan
                  Joe, Do you have a copy of the technical reference manual? If not I can copy and scan the important pages. In the mean time can you take a picture of the
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jun 1 11:55 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Joe,
                    Do you have a copy of the technical reference manual? If not I can copy
                    and scan the important pages. In the mean time can you take a picture of
                    the motherboard switches, and RAM? If not easy to do, can you just tell me
                    whether there are open RAM slots and what the switches are set to? I am
                    guessing it's a 64K + 512K with the QuadRAM card = 640K. With this you
                    could do almost anything. Lastly, what are the markings on the ROM chips
                    in U33? That will tell me if it has an upgraded ROM or the original. I am
                    going to guess that it's been upgraded.

                    I don't off hand know the voltages. The 8087 coprocessor is next to the
                    processor near the power connector.

                    Thanks
                    Bill

                    -------- Original Message --------
                    > From: "Joe Giliberti" <Starbase89@...>
                    > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 2:45 PM
                    > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] makeshift IBM monitor
                    >
                    > All I've done thus far is apply power to the power supply (which is
                    > original). What are the voltages supposed to be going into the mainboard?
                    I
                    > want to check with a multimeter before hooking it to the motherboard.
                    It
                    > appears to have the co-processor installed. I do plan on doing a
                    > methodological, slow restore on it.
                    >
                    > Aside from resocketing chips and removing dust, what is the procedure
                    for
                    > checking the motherboard?
                    >
                    > Joe
                    >
                    >
                    > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Bill Degnan <billdeg@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > May I add that this is quite a lucky find, you may never get such a
                    rare
                    > > system in the trash ever again, you take this as an opportunity to
                    perform
                    > > a serious restoration/save. Learn about what you have and make the most
                    of
                    > > the experience. Don't try to hook this up to the Internet, try to
                    return
                    > > the computer to original condition. Don't power this up until you're
                    > > confident you have tested the power, removed all cards and unhooked
                    power
                    > > to the motherboard, etc.
                    > > Bill
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > -------- Original Message --------
                    > > > From: "Mr Ian Primus" <ian_primus@...
                    <ian_primus%40yahoo.com>>
                    > > > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 8:08 AM
                    > > > To:
                    midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com<midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > > > Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] makeshift IBM monitor
                    > > >
                    > > > --- On Sun, 5/31/09, Joe Giliberti
                    <Starbase89@...<Starbase89%40gmail.com>>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > >there is a bit of rust on the cover, but not significant. I'm using
                    a
                    > > >random AT keyboard, as I do not have a model M
                    > > >
                    > > > An AT keyboard will not work on this machine. You need an XT
                    keyboard.
                    > > The plugs are the same, but the protocol is different. Some early AT
                    > > keyboards also have a switch (sometimes hidden behind a little panel in
                    th
                    > > bottom) to switch between AT and XT modes.
                    > > >
                    > > > The original CGA card has RCA plugs on it, and if I remember
                    correctly,
                    > > it should be composite video. But, I do believe that the composite
                    video
                    > > output does not support all video modes that the CGA card can do. Your
                    best
                    > >
                    > > bet is to find a real monitor...
                    > > >
                    > > > You can't connect the CGA card to a VGA monitor, but you CAN use
                    (with
                    > > limited color palette), an analog RGB monitor, such as the ones used on
                    the
                    > >
                    > > Commodore Amiga. CGA is a digital RGB, and uses an intensity line. The
                    > > analog monitors will display the digital signal, but can't use the
                    > > intensity line - so all the "light" colors come out as the same color
                    as
                    > > their "bright" counterparts. It's usable though.
                    > > >
                    > > > -Ian
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > ------------------------------------
                    > > >
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                  • Joe Giliberti
                    I downloaded a PDF copy of the technical manual last night. I m guessing the onboard RAM are the 27 or so small chips near the front visible corner of the
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jun 1 12:01 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I downloaded a PDF copy of the technical manual last night. I'm guessing the onboard RAM are the 27 or so small chips near the front visible corner of the board? I'll get all relevant information you asked for, including switch positions, and get back to you.
                      Joe

                      On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Bill Degnan <billdeg@...> wrote:


                      Joe,
                      Do you have a copy of the technical reference manual? If not I can copy
                      and scan the important pages. In the mean time can you take a picture of
                      the motherboard switches, and RAM? If not easy to do, can you just tell me
                      whether there are open RAM slots and what the switches are set to? I am
                      guessing it's a 64K + 512K with the QuadRAM card = 640K. With this you
                      could do almost anything. Lastly, what are the markings on the ROM chips
                      in U33? That will tell me if it has an upgraded ROM or the original. I am
                      going to guess that it's been upgraded.

                      I don't off hand know the voltages. The 8087 coprocessor is next to the
                      processor near the power connector.

                      Thanks
                      Bill



                      -------- Original Message --------
                      > From: "Joe Giliberti" <Starbase89@...>
                      > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 2:45 PM
                      > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] makeshift IBM monitor
                      >
                      > All I've done thus far is apply power to the power supply (which is
                      > original). What are the voltages supposed to be going into the mainboard?
                      I
                      > want to check with a multimeter before hooking it to the motherboard.
                      It
                      > appears to have the co-processor installed. I do plan on doing a
                      > methodological, slow restore on it.
                      >
                      > Aside from resocketing chips and removing dust, what is the procedure
                      for
                      > checking the motherboard?
                      >
                      > Joe
                      >
                      >
                      > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Bill Degnan <billdeg@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > May I add that this is quite a lucky find, you may never get such a
                      rare
                      > > system in the trash ever again, you take this as an opportunity to
                      perform
                      > > a serious restoration/save. Learn about what you have and make the most
                      of
                      > > the experience. Don't try to hook this up to the Internet, try to
                      return
                      > > the computer to original condition. Don't power this up until you're
                      > > confident you have tested the power, removed all cards and unhooked
                      power
                      > > to the motherboard, etc.
                      > > Bill
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > -------- Original Message --------
                      > > > From: "Mr Ian Primus" <ian_primus@...
                      <ian_primus%40yahoo.com>>
                      > > > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 8:08 AM
                      > > > To:
                      midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com<midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > > > Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] makeshift IBM monitor
                      > > >
                      > > > --- On Sun, 5/31/09, Joe Giliberti
                      <Starbase89@...<Starbase89%40gmail.com>>
                      > > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > >there is a bit of rust on the cover, but not significant. I'm using
                      a
                      > > >random AT keyboard, as I do not have a model M
                      > > >
                      > > > An AT keyboard will not work on this machine. You need an XT
                      keyboard.
                      > > The plugs are the same, but the protocol is different. Some early AT
                      > > keyboards also have a switch (sometimes hidden behind a little panel in
                      th
                      > > bottom) to switch between AT and XT modes.
                      > > >
                      > > > The original CGA card has RCA plugs on it, and if I remember
                      correctly,
                      > > it should be composite video. But, I do believe that the composite
                      video
                      > > output does not support all video modes that the CGA card can do. Your
                      best
                      > >
                      > > bet is to find a real monitor...
                      > > >
                      > > > You can't connect the CGA card to a VGA monitor, but you CAN use
                      (with
                      > > limited color palette), an analog RGB monitor, such as the ones used on
                      the
                      > >
                      > > Commodore Amiga. CGA is a digital RGB, and uses an intensity line. The
                      > > analog monitors will display the digital signal, but can't use the
                      > > intensity line - so all the "light" colors come out as the same color
                      as
                      > > their "bright" counterparts. It's usable though.
                      > > >
                      > > > -Ian
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > ------------------------------------
                      > > >
                      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >


                    • Brian Cirulnick
                      ... Sure, we can arrange that. Let me just test that it works (I have an old Epson PC clone that uses CGA), and then I ll leave it in my kitchen so it s
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jun 1 12:18 PM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Evan Koblentz <evan@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > >
                        > > Not sure where you live, but I'm in Belleville NJ, if you're willing to take a drive to my place one evening, you can pick it up.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > Brian, why don't I get the monitor from you, then I'll bring it to the
                        > museum. Joe lives close the museum and often comes there on weekends.
                        >
                        -------------------

                        Sure, we can arrange that. Let me just test that it works (I have an old Epson PC clone that uses CGA), and then I'll leave it in my kitchen so it's reminding me to call you to come get it...

                        Now if only I hadn't thrown out all those keyboards 7 years ago. (You guys would cry hearing about all I had to throw out when I closed my business in 2002)...

                        Ah well.

                        Anyhow; Evan, I'm available most evenings after 8pm. I think you have my cell phone #, if not, email my home e-mail and I'll send you that and my address..
                      • Evan Koblentz
                        ... Brian, can we meet at the mall (or some other central location) like we did when you retrieved Chris bag?
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jun 1 12:22 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          >
                          > Evan, I'm available most evenings after 8pm. I think you have my cell phone #, if not, email my home e-mail and I'll send you that and my address..
                          >
                          Brian, can we meet at the mall (or some other central location) like we
                          did when you retrieved Chris' bag?
                        • Bill Degnan
                          Remember when you work with the manual not to confuse the directions and settings for the 16K-64K board and the 64K-640K board. They re both in the manual. I
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jun 1 12:24 PM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Remember when you work with the manual not to confuse the directions and
                            settings for the 16K-64K board and the 64K-640K board. They're both in the
                            manual. I have more info on my web site, vintagecomputer.net/ibm. Also
                            search the blog for various notes and pictures about this model. I have
                            restored three of these models in the past 12 months.

                            Usually what kills them is the monitor card, usually if you replace the
                            card the system comes back to life. The other likely thing to go wrong is
                            RAM. I can teach you some tricks to locating the bad RAM and replacing.

                            Bill

                            -------- Original Message --------
                            > From: "Joe Giliberti" <Starbase89@...>
                            > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 3:03 PM
                            > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] makeshift IBM monitor
                            >
                            > I downloaded a PDF copy of the technical manual last night. I'm guessing
                            the
                            > onboard RAM are the 27 or so small chips near the front visible corner
                            of
                            > the board? I'll get all relevant information you asked for, including
                            switch
                            > positions, and get back to you.
                            > Joe
                            >
                            > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Bill Degnan <billdeg@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Joe,
                            > > Do you have a copy of the technical reference manual? If not I can
                            copy
                            > > and scan the important pages. In the mean time can you take a picture
                            of
                            > > the motherboard switches, and RAM? If not easy to do, can you just tell
                            me
                            > > whether there are open RAM slots and what the switches are set to? I
                            am
                            > > guessing it's a 64K + 512K with the QuadRAM card = 640K. With this you
                            > > could do almost anything. Lastly, what are the markings on the ROM
                            chips
                            > > in U33? That will tell me if it has an upgraded ROM or the original. I
                            am
                            > > going to guess that it's been upgraded.
                            > >
                            > > I don't off hand know the voltages. The 8087 coprocessor is next to
                            the
                            > > processor near the power connector.
                            > >
                            > > Thanks
                            > > Bill
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > -------- Original Message --------
                            > > > From: "Joe Giliberti" <Starbase89@...
                            <Starbase89%40gmail.com>>
                            > > > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 2:45 PM
                            > > > To:
                            midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com<midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com>
                            > > > Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] makeshift IBM monitor
                            > > >
                            > > > All I've done thus far is apply power to the power supply (which is
                            > > > original). What are the voltages supposed to be going into the
                            mainboard?
                            > >
                            > > I
                            > > > want to check with a multimeter before hooking it to the
                            motherboard.
                            > > It
                            > > > appears to have the co-processor installed. I do plan on doing a
                            > > > methodological, slow restore on it.
                            > > >
                            > > > Aside from resocketing chips and removing dust, what is the
                            procedure
                            > > for
                            > > > checking the motherboard?
                            > > >
                            > > > Joe
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Bill Degnan
                            <billdeg@...<billdeg%40degnanco.com>>
                            > >
                            > > wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > May I add that this is quite a lucky find, you may never get such
                            a
                            > > rare
                            > > > > system in the trash ever again, you take this as an opportunity to
                            > > perform
                            > > > > a serious restoration/save. Learn about what you have and make the
                            most
                            > >
                            > > of
                            > > > > the experience. Don't try to hook this up to the Internet, try to
                            > > return
                            > > > > the computer to original condition. Don't power this up until
                            you're
                            > > > > confident you have tested the power, removed all cards and
                            unhooked
                            > > power
                            > > > > to the motherboard, etc.
                            > > > > Bill
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > -------- Original Message --------
                            > > > > > From: "Mr Ian Primus" <ian_primus@...
                            <ian_primus%40yahoo.com>
                            > > <ian_primus%40yahoo.com>>
                            > > > > > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 8:08 AM
                            > > > > > To:
                            > > midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com <midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com>
                            > > <midatlanticretro%40yahoogroups.com>
                            > > > > > Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] makeshift IBM monitor
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > --- On Sun, 5/31/09, Joe Giliberti
                            > > <Starbase89@...
                            <Starbase89%40gmail.com><Starbase89%40gmail.com>>
                            > > > > wrote:
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > >there is a bit of rust on the cover, but not significant. I'm
                            using
                            > > a
                            > > > > >random AT keyboard, as I do not have a model M
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > An AT keyboard will not work on this machine. You need an XT
                            > > keyboard.
                            > > > > The plugs are the same, but the protocol is different. Some early
                            AT
                            > > > > keyboards also have a switch (sometimes hidden behind a little
                            panel in
                            > >
                            > > th
                            > > > > bottom) to switch between AT and XT modes.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > The original CGA card has RCA plugs on it, and if I remember
                            > > correctly,
                            > > > > it should be composite video. But, I do believe that the composite
                            > > video
                            > > > > output does not support all video modes that the CGA card can do.
                            Your
                            > > best
                            > > > >
                            > > > > bet is to find a real monitor...
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > You can't connect the CGA card to a VGA monitor, but you CAN use
                            > > (with
                            > > > > limited color palette), an analog RGB monitor, such as the ones
                            used on
                            > >
                            > > the
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Commodore Amiga. CGA is a digital RGB, and uses an intensity line.
                            The
                            > > > > analog monitors will display the digital signal, but can't use the
                            > > > > intensity line - so all the "light" colors come out as the same
                            color
                            > > as
                            > > > > their "bright" counterparts. It's usable though.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > -Ian
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > ------------------------------------
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                          • Evan Koblentz
                            ... Sorry to bog down the list in details. I meant to reply to Brian off-list.
                            Message 13 of 23 , Jun 1 12:29 PM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Evan, I'm available most evenings after 8pm. I think you have my cell phone #, if not, email my home e-mail and I'll send you that and my address..   
                                  
                              Brian, can we meet at the mall (or some other central location) like we 
                              did when you retrieved Chris' bag?
                                
                              Sorry to bog down the list in details.  I meant to reply to Brian off-list.
                            • Joe Giliberti
                              Here s as much info as I can pull off the mainboard Machine Serial: 0177038 On the planar: SW1 on on on on off on on off SW2 on off on on off off off off U28
                              Message 14 of 23 , Jun 1 7:06 PM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Here's as much info as I can pull off the mainboard

                                Machine Serial:
                                0177038

                                On the planar:

                                SW1
                                on on on on off on on off

                                SW2
                                on off on on off off off off

                                U28
                                Empty Socket

                                U29
                                MK35748 J
                                5700019
                                ZA
                                (copyright) IBM 1981
                                D Malaysia
                                8135 Q

                                U30
                                5700027
                                (copyright) IBM 1981
                                XE
                                (motorola symbol) 8201BNM

                                U31
                                (motorola symbol) 5700035
                                (copyright) IBM 1981
                                XE8135ANM

                                U32
                                MK36728 P
                                5700043
                                ZA
                                (copyright) IBM 1981
                                D Malaysia
                                8142 D

                                U33
                                MK36C35N-4
                                1501476
                                ZA
                                (copyright) IBM CORP
                                1981, 1983
                                D Malaysia

                                U34
                                (not socketed)
                                NEC
                                PIY229-147
                                D8253C-5

                                Has a total of 36 of what I believe to be memory chips. Nine are soldered direct to the board, the remaining 27 are socketed
                                The chips are marked:

                                (AMD symbol) AM9016DPC
                                8144WPP

                                All 36 are the same chips


                              • B Degnan
                                U33 MK36C35N-4 1501476 ZA (copyright) IBM CORP 1981, 1983 D Malaysia Tells you it s a 2nd REV16K-64K (upgraded) ROM set. The first rev did not have a routine
                                Message 15 of 23 , Jun 1 7:45 PM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  U33
                                  MK36C35N-4
                                  1501476
                                  ZA
                                  (copyright) IBM CORP
                                  1981, 1983
                                  D Malaysia

                                  Tells you it's a 2nd REV16K-64K (upgraded) ROM set.  The first rev did not have a routine for using hard drives, and some other things so most people upgraded the ROMS so they could use newer parts and memory.



                                  Here's as much info as I can pull off the mainboard

                                  Machine Serial:
                                  0177038
                                  this year I worked on the following other 16-64K boards, so yours is right in there among them, definitely an original, probably from late 1981 early 1983.:

                                  0159618
                                  0239462
                                  0192592 (MARCH's with original ROMS)

                                  On the planar:

                                  SW1
                                  on on on on off on on off

                                  SW2
                                  on off on on off off off off


                                  you have a full complement of RAM (64K) on the motherboard. 

                                  I assume you have SW1 reversed.  Up means "on" if facing from the front looking down. 
                                  If you have a co-processor, two drives, CGA monitor then SW1 should be: [off on -- -- on off off on] (where pertains to RAM).

                                  If SW1's 5 is up and 6 down  - that means CGA display.  Monochrome 5 and 6 are down.  Never mix and match without first changing the switches before powering on.  Otherwise you will fry the board and short the system.

                                  Math co-processor 2 = up/on.

                                  In a nutshell it looks like you have a standard configuration, no changes needed assuming you use a CGA monitor.  Don't try to use monochrome with these settings.  Someone did that to MARCH's 5150, and we had to replace the display card as a result. 

                                  Hope this helps.

                                  Bill

                                • Joe Giliberti
                                  Thanks for the info, Bill Some more questions Does it matter whether I take video from the CGA port or the composite? So I could, if I wished, install an MFM
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Jun 1 7:56 PM
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Thanks for the info, Bill
                                    Some more questions

                                    Does it matter whether I take video from the CGA port or the composite?
                                    So I could, if I wished, install an MFM hard drive/controller, or perhaps a hardcard. Correct?
                                    Also, due to the different ROM, will it support a full 640k, or the 544k from the first gen?

                                    Joe

                                    On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 10:45 PM, B Degnan <billdeg@...> wrote:


                                    U33
                                    MK36C35N-4
                                    1501476
                                    ZA
                                    (copyright) IBM CORP
                                    1981, 1983
                                    D Malaysia

                                    Tells you it's a 2nd REV16K-64K (upgraded) ROM set.  The first rev did not have a routine for using hard drives, and some other things so most people upgraded the ROMS so they could use newer parts and memory.




                                    Here's as much info as I can pull off the mainboard

                                    Machine Serial:
                                    0177038
                                    this year I worked on the following other 16-64K boards, so yours is right in there among them, definitely an original, probably from late 1981 early 1983.:

                                    0159618
                                    0239462
                                    0192592 (MARCH's with original ROMS)


                                    On the planar:

                                    SW1
                                    on on on on off on on off

                                    SW2
                                    on off on on off off off off


                                    you have a full complement of RAM (64K) on the motherboard. 

                                    I assume you have SW1 reversed.  Up means "on" if facing from the front looking down. 
                                    If you have a co-processor, two drives, CGA monitor then SW1 should be: [off on -- -- on off off on] (where pertains to RAM).

                                    If SW1's 5 is up and 6 down  - that means CGA display.  Monochrome 5 and 6 are down.  Never mix and match without first changing the switches before powering on.  Otherwise you will fry the board and short the system.

                                    Math co-processor 2 = up/on.

                                    In a nutshell it looks like you have a standard configuration, no changes needed assuming you use a CGA monitor.  Don't try to use monochrome with these settings.  Someone did that to MARCH's 5150, and we had to replace the display card as a result. 

                                    Hope this helps.

                                    Bill


                                  • B Degnan
                                    ... only use a real cga monitor in the CGA port. do not use the composite. ... yes but this system did not come with a hard drive and would not be in the
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Jun 2 5:20 AM
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Joe Giliberti wrote:
                                      Thanks for the info, Bill
                                      Some more questions

                                      Does it matter whether I take video from the CGA port or the composite?
                                      only use a real cga monitor in the CGA port.  do not use the composite.

                                      So I could, if I wished, install an MFM hard drive/controller, or perhaps a hardcard. Correct?
                                      yes but this system did not come with a hard drive and would not be in the spirit of what it was originally.

                                      Also, due to the different ROM, will it support a full 640k, or the 544k from the first gen?

                                      full 640.  Should be at 640K now.
                                      Joe


                                      P.S. - Evan - the disk you gave me for the IBM at MARCH has some bare spots, the drive needs to be cleaned or replaced.    Do we have any replacement Tandon 100-2a drives at MARCH?

                                      Bill
                                    • Evan Koblentz
                                      ... I don t know.
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Jun 2 3:59 PM
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        > Evan - the disk you gave me for the IBM at MARCH has some bare spots,
                                        > the drive needs to be cleaned or replaced. Do we have any
                                        > replacement Tandon 100-2a drives at MARCH?
                                        I don't know.
                                      • Mr Ian Primus
                                        ... The drive probably just needs a good cleaning. I ve never seen a Tandon in an IBM fail so badly as to scrape up disks. The heads are probably just really
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Jun 2 5:56 PM
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          --- On Tue, 6/2/09, Evan Koblentz <evan@...> wrote:

                                          > > Evan - the disk you gave me for
                                          > the IBM at MARCH has some bare spots,
                                          > > the drive needs to be cleaned or replaced. 
                                          >   Do we have any
                                          > > replacement Tandon 100-2a drives at MARCH?
                                          > I don't know.

                                          The drive probably just needs a good cleaning. I've never seen a Tandon in an IBM fail so badly as to scrape up disks. The heads are probably just really dirty. Also, the disk itself could have been compromised - some brands are more apt to start shedding oxide with age.

                                          -Ian
                                        • Bill Degnan
                                          ... in an IBM fail so badly as to scrape up disks. The heads are probably just really dirty. Also, the disk itself could have been compromised - some brands
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Jun 2 6:05 PM
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            -------- Original Message --------
                                            > From: "Mr Ian Primus" <ian_primus@...>
                                            > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 8:56 PM
                                            > To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Re: makeshift IBM monitor
                                            >
                                            > --- On Tue, 6/2/09, Evan Koblentz <evan@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > > > Evan - the disk you gave me for
                                            > > the IBM at MARCH has some bare spots,
                                            > > > the drive needs to be cleaned or replaced.
                                            > > Do we have any
                                            > > > replacement Tandon 100-2a drives at MARCH?
                                            > > I don't know.
                                            >
                                            > The drive probably just needs a good cleaning. I've never seen a Tandon
                                            in an IBM fail so badly as to scrape up disks. The heads are probably just
                                            really dirty. Also, the disk itself could have been compromised - some
                                            brands are more apt to start shedding oxide with age.
                                            >

                                            True on all counts. I was just curious about whether we had another drive
                                            if next time I come up and I can't fix the problem, I can bring a spare
                                            drive if I have one. Hopefully you're right and a good cleaning will
                                            suffice, or a new disk. The disk in question is a copy of DOS 2.11 with a
                                            few scratched tracks, but not completely bare. I never had issues with
                                            these drives when I was working with the system myself, but I was mostly
                                            focused on the hardware and did not do much disk exercising other than
                                            format a disk in both drives.

                                            bd
                                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.