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Re: [midatlanticretro] starting out

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  • Jim Scheef
    Hi back, You didn t give your name. Both of the other replies have been sage advice. I ll add a suggestion to not worry so much about what s rare or old but
    Message 1 of 21 , Sep 19, 2005
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      Hi back,

      You didn't give your name.

      Both of the other replies have been sage advice. I'll add a suggestion to not
      worry so much about what's rare or old but rather collect what you like. I
      like my old computers to work, meaning that they can do more than just turn
      on and glow in the dark, but can do real, useful tasks. This means that most
      of what I collect is newer than what many of the others here call 'vintage'.
      Tonite I was bidding on eBay for a laptop that most people here would not
      even consider collectible. I didn't win because there were at least ten
      others bidding for the same item. For me, part of the collecting fun is
      finding bargans. So if what you like is playing video games, collect game
      consoles and the games that make them fun. Game consoles and old home
      computers are often given away at garage/yard/tag sales.

      BTW, what is an NES system?

      Jim

      --- jtkirk1337 <starbase89@...> wrote:

      > Hi.
      > I'm a newbie here, and I have no collection. I am also probably one of
      > the youngest here (16). The closest thing I have right now to a
      > vintage computer is an NES system. Can anyone recommend a place where
      > I can aquire some computers from to try and start off? I have been
      > interested in vintage computers for around 4 years, but never really
      > got into it.
      >
      > Thanks
      >
      >
      >
    • Joe Giliberti
      ... NES is Nintendo Entertainment System. My name is Joe, by the way. I m mainly interested in Apples, Amigas, Ataris, and Commodores. And I would want to have
      Message 2 of 21 , Sep 19, 2005
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        Jim Scheef wrote:
        Hi back,

        You didn't give your name.

        Both of the other replies have been sage advice. I'll add a suggestion to not
        worry so much about what's rare or old but rather collect what you like. I
        like my old computers to work, meaning that they can do more than just turn
        on and glow in the dark, but can do real, useful tasks. This means that most
        of what I collect is newer than what many of the others here call 'vintage'.
        Tonite I was bidding on eBay for a laptop that most people here would not
        even consider collectible. I didn't win because there were at least ten
        others bidding for the same item. For me, part of the collecting fun is
        finding bargans. So if what you like is playing video games, collect game
        consoles and the games that make them fun. Game consoles and old home
        computers are often given away at garage/yard/tag sales.

        BTW, what is an NES system?

        Jim

        --- jtkirk1337 <starbase89@...> wrote:

        > Hi.
        > I'm a newbie here, and I have no collection. I am also probably one of
        > the youngest here (16). The closest thing I have right now to a
        > vintage computer is an NES system. Can anyone recommend a place where
        > I can aquire some computers from to try and start off? I have been
        > interested in vintage computers for around 4 years, but never really
        > got into it.
        >
        > Thanks
        >
        >
        >

        NES is Nintendo Entertainment System. My name is Joe, by the way. I'm mainly interested in Apples, Amigas, Ataris, and Commodores. And I would want to have them working. I wouldn't pay for just a showpiece. My budget is too tight. An older luggable, maybe an SX-64 or a Kaypro would be cool.

      • Evan
        Joe, Welcome to our hobby and club! How did you learn about us? Where in the mid-atlantic region do you live? Who am I: Besides running MARCH, I m also the
        Message 3 of 21 , Sep 19, 2005
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          Joe,
           
          Welcome to our hobby and club!
           
          How did you learn about us?  Where in the mid-atlantic region do you live?
           
          Who am I: Besides running MARCH, I'm also the editor of Computer Collector Newsletter, which has worldwide readership.
           
          Anyway, you'll find that most collectors either get a little of everything and anything, or they pick a specialty and become experts in it.  For example, I chose the latter route -- I collect vintage handhelds and laptops almost exclusively.
           
          I suggest that you join the mailing list called "cctalk" based at www.classiccmp.org -- that's the largest global mailing list for the hobby.  You can also use the web forum at www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum, which in addition has classified ads.  Other ads are at www.vintagecomputermarketplace.com, and you should buy Michael Nadeau's book "Collectible Microcomputers", both as noted by Bill Degnan.  And as you found, the site www.old-computers.com is a great online encyclopedia.
           
          Keep in mind that there's much more to collect besides microcomputers.  Many people get into minicomputers, and many people keep into the various kinds of software, chips, literature/books, I/O devices, storage, etc.
           
          As for MARCH, we have members all over the region, and spanning the whole range of vintage computing interests.  We also have live events a few times each year.  Currently we're planning a physical museum in Wall Township, N.J., and we're also planning to host a "light" version of the famous Vintage Computer Festival (vintage.org) next spring.
           
          Any questions?  Just ask!
           
          -- Evan Koblentz, a.k.a. "club prez because no one else was dumb enough to take the gig"


          From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jtkirk1337
          Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 5:14 PM
          To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [midatlanticretro] starting out

          Hi.
          I'm a newbie here, and I have no collection. I am also probably one of
          the youngest here (16). The closest thing I have right now to a
          vintage computer is an NES system. Can anyone recommend a place where
          I can aquire some computers from to try and start off? I have been
          interested in vintage computers for around 4 years, but never really
          got into it.

          Thanks


        • Jim Scheef
          Joe, Part of my collection is early DOS near compatibles , like a Zenith Z-100. Someone was giving the computer away. My rarest find is a Seattle Gazelle
          Message 4 of 21 , Sep 20, 2005
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            Joe,

            Part of my collection is early DOS "near compatibles", like a Zenith Z-100.
            Someone was giving the computer away. My rarest find is a Seattle Gazelle
            (S-100 bus, runs DOS, uses an external ASCII terminal) that a guy in New
            Hampshire was giving away. Free is my favorite price, although the drive up
            and back from NH took about 8 hours. Every Thursday or Friday (it varies in
            different areas) grab the local newspaper and look thru the garage/yard/tag
            sale ads for computers. Then on Saturday, get on your horse and hit every one
            of thoses garage sales. The later in the day that you get there, the more
            likely they are to give you the computer just to get rid of it.

            Go for it. This is the fun part.

            Jim

            --- Joe Giliberti <starbase89@...> wrote:

            > Jim Scheef wrote:
            >
            > > Hi back,
            > >
            > > You didn't give your name.
            > >
            > > Both of the other replies have been sage advice. I'll add a suggestion
            > > to not
            > > worry so much about what's rare or old but rather collect what you like.
            > I
            > > like my old computers to work, meaning that they can do more than just
            > > turn
            > > on and glow in the dark, but can do real, useful tasks. This means
            > > that most
            > > of what I collect is newer than what many of the others here call
            > > 'vintage'.
            > > Tonite I was bidding on eBay for a laptop that most people here would not
            > > even consider collectible. I didn't win because there were at least ten
            > > others bidding for the same item. For me, part of the collecting fun is
            > > finding bargans. So if what you like is playing video games, collect game
            > > consoles and the games that make them fun. Game consoles and old home
            > > computers are often given away at garage/yard/tag sales.
            > >
            > > BTW, what is an NES system?
            > >
            > > Jim
            > >
            > > --- jtkirk1337 <starbase89@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > > Hi.
            > > > I'm a newbie here, and I have no collection. I am also probably one of
            > > > the youngest here (16). The closest thing I have right now to a
            > > > vintage computer is an NES system. Can anyone recommend a place where
            > > > I can aquire some computers from to try and start off? I have been
            > > > interested in vintage computers for around 4 years, but never really
            > > > got into it.
            > > >
            > > > Thanks
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > SPONSORED LINKS
            > > Vintage computer
            > >
            >
            <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vintage+computer&w1=Vintage+computer&w2=Field+trip&w3=Computer+security&w4=Computer+training&c=4&s=84&.sig=t9pasmT32p-p2BvQtk8vAw>
            >
            > > Field trip
            > >
            >
            <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Field+trip&w1=Vintage+computer&w2=Field+trip&w3=Computer+security&w4=Computer+training&c=4&s=84&.sig=Et_lpqgaXhbeqtlUXREsiw>
            >
            > > Computer security
            > >
            >
            <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Computer+security&w1=Vintage+computer&w2=Field+trip&w3=Computer+security&w4=Computer+training&c=4&s=84&.sig=lTI9crE846HktRyJ9cnRXA>
            >
            > >
            > > Computer training
            > >
            >
            <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Computer+training&w1=Vintage+computer&w2=Field+trip&w3=Computer+security&w4=Computer+training&c=4&s=84&.sig=vvepx7-O7ZQcFHPC0FpTNA>
            >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            > >
            > > * Visit your group "midatlanticretro
            > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro>" on the web.
            > >
            > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > midatlanticretro-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > <mailto:midatlanticretro-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
            > >
            > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            > > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > >
            > NES is Nintendo Entertainment System. My name is Joe, by the way. I'm
            > mainly interested in Apples, Amigas, Ataris, and Commodores. And I would
            > want to have them working. I wouldn't pay for just a showpiece. My
            > budget is too tight. An older luggable, maybe an SX-64 or a Kaypro would
            > be cool.
            >
            >
          • Joe Giliberti
            ... A computer museum in Wall NJ? I m about 15 miles from there. I m in Jackson NJ. That is awesome. The only one I have seen is the one in the Smithsonian
            Message 5 of 21 , Sep 20, 2005
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              Evan wrote:
              Joe,
               
              Welcome to our hobby and club!
               
              How did you learn about us?  Where in the mid-atlantic region do you live?
               
              Who am I: Besides running MARCH, I'm also the editor of Computer Collector Newsletter, which has worldwide readership.
               
              Anyway, you'll find that most collectors either get a little of everything and anything, or they pick a specialty and become experts in it.  For example, I chose the latter route -- I collect vintage handhelds and laptops almost exclusively.
               
              I suggest that you join the mailing list called "cctalk" based at www.classiccmp.org -- that's the largest global mailing list for the hobby.  You can also use the web forum at www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum, which in addition has classified ads.  Other ads are at www.vintagecomputermarketplace.com, and you should buy Michael Nadeau's book "Collectible Microcomputers", both as noted by Bill Degnan.  And as you found, the site www.old-computers.com is a great online encyclopedia.
               
              Keep in mind that there's much more to collect besides microcomputers.  Many people get into minicomputers, and many people keep into the various kinds of software, chips, literature/books, I/O devices, storage, etc.
               
              As for MARCH, we have members all over the region, and spanning the whole range of vintage computing interests.  We also have live events a few times each year.  Currently we're planning a physical museum in Wall Township, N.J., and we're also planning to host a "light" version of the famous Vintage Computer Festival (vintage.org) next spring.
               
              Any questions?  Just ask!
               
              -- Evan Koblentz, a.k.a. "club prez because no one else was dumb enough to take the gig"


              From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jtkirk1337
              Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 5:14 PM
              To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [midatlanticretro] starting out

              Hi.
              I'm a newbie here, and I have no collection. I am also probably one of
              the youngest here (16). The closest thing I have right now to a
              vintage computer is an NES system. Can anyone recommend a place where
              I can aquire some computers from to try and start off? I have been
              interested in vintage computers for around 4 years, but never really
              got into it.

              Thanks


              A computer museum in Wall NJ? I'm about 15 miles from there. I'm in Jackson NJ. That is awesome. The only one I have seen is the one in the Smithsonian American History Museum a few years ago. Is there a newsletter to keep me updated on that?
            • Joe Giliberti
              ... I have to rely on my parents for the horse , but I do check newspapers, Craigslist, and Freecycle regularly
              Message 6 of 21 , Sep 20, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Jim Scheef wrote:
                Joe,

                Part of my collection is early DOS "near compatibles", like a Zenith Z-100.
                Someone was giving the computer away. My rarest find is a Seattle Gazelle
                (S-100 bus, runs DOS, uses an external ASCII terminal) that a guy in New
                Hampshire was giving away. Free is my favorite price, although the drive up
                and back from NH took about 8 hours. Every Thursday or Friday (it varies in
                different areas) grab the local newspaper and look thru the garage/yard/tag
                sale ads for computers. Then on Saturday, get on your horse and hit every one
                of thoses garage sales. The later in the day that you get there, the more
                likely they are to give you the computer just to get rid of it.

                Go for it. This is the fun part.

                Jim

                --- Joe Giliberti <starbase89@...> wrote:

                > Jim Scheef wrote:
                >
                > > Hi back,
                > >
                > > You didn't give your name.
                > >
                > > Both of the other replies have been sage advice. I'll add a suggestion
                > > to not
                > > worry so much about what's rare or old but rather collect what you like.
                > I
                > > like my old computers to work, meaning that they can do more than just
                > > turn
                > > on and glow in the dark, but can do real, useful tasks. This means
                > > that most
                > > of what I collect is newer than what many of the others here call
                > > 'vintage'.
                > > Tonite I was bidding on eBay for a laptop that most people here would not
                > > even consider collectible. I didn't win because there were at least ten
                > > others bidding for the same item. For me, part of the collecting fun is
                > > finding bargans. So if what you like is playing video games, collect game
                > > consoles and the games that make them fun. Game consoles and old home
                > > computers are often given away at garage/yard/tag sales.
                > >
                > > BTW, what is an NES system?
                > >
                > > Jim
                > >
                > > --- jtkirk1337 <starbase89@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > > Hi.
                > > > I'm a newbie here, and I have no collection. I am also probably one of
                > > > the youngest here (16). The closest thing I have right now to a
                > > > vintage computer is an NES system. Can anyone recommend a place where
                > > > I can aquire some computers from to try and start off? I have been
                > > > interested in vintage computers for around 4 years, but never really
                > > > got into it.
                > > >
                > > > Thanks
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > SPONSORED LINKS
                > > Vintage computer
                > >
                >
                <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vintage+computer&w1=Vintage+computer&w2=Field+trip&w3=Computer+security&w4=Computer+training&c=4&s=84&.sig=t9pasmT32p-p2BvQtk8vAw>
                >
                > >       Field trip
                > >
                >
                <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Field+trip&w1=Vintage+computer&w2=Field+trip&w3=Computer+security&w4=Computer+training&c=4&s=84&.sig=Et_lpqgaXhbeqtlUXREsiw>
                >
                > >       Computer security
                > >
                >
                <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Computer+security&w1=Vintage+computer&w2=Field+trip&w3=Computer+security&w4=Computer+training&c=4&s=84&.sig=lTI9crE846HktRyJ9cnRXA>
                >
                > >
                > > Computer training
                > >
                >
                <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Computer+training&w1=Vintage+computer&w2=Field+trip&w3=Computer+security&w4=Computer+training&c=4&s=84&.sig=vvepx7-O7ZQcFHPC0FpTNA>
                >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                > >
                > >     *  Visit your group "midatlanticretro
                > >       <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro>" on the web.
                > >       
                > >     *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > >        midatlanticretro-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > >     
                > <mailto:midatlanticretro-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                > >       
                > >     *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                > >       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > >
                > NES is Nintendo Entertainment System. My name is Joe, by the way. I'm
                > mainly interested in Apples, Amigas, Ataris, and Commodores. And I would
                > want to have them working. I wouldn't pay for just a showpiece. My
                > budget is too tight. An older luggable, maybe an SX-64 or a Kaypro would
                > be cool.
                >
                >

                I have to rely on my parents for the "horse", but I do check newspapers, Craigslist, and Freecycle regularly
              • Evan
                Joe, see my off-list reply. _____ From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Giliberti Sent: Tuesday,
                Message 7 of 21 , Sep 20, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Joe, see my off-list reply.


                  From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Giliberti
                  Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 1:32 PM
                  To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] starting out

                  Evan wrote:
                  Joe,
                   
                  Welcome to our hobby and club!
                   
                  How did you learn about us?  Where in the mid-atlantic region do you live?
                   
                  Who am I: Besides running MARCH, I'm also the editor of Computer Collector Newsletter, which has worldwide readership.
                   
                  Anyway, you'll find that most collectors either get a little of everything and anything, or they pick a specialty and become experts in it.  For example, I chose the latter route -- I collect vintage handhelds and laptops almost exclusively.
                   
                  I suggest that you join the mailing list called "cctalk" based at www.classiccmp.org -- that's the largest global mailing list for the hobby.  You can also use the web forum at www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum, which in addition has classified ads.  Other ads are at www.vintagecomputermarketplace.com, and you should buy Michael Nadeau's book "Collectible Microcomputers", both as noted by Bill Degnan.  And as you found, the site www.old-computers.com is a great online encyclopedia.
                   
                  Keep in mind that there's much more to collect besides microcomputers.  Many people get into minicomputers, and many people keep into the various kinds of software, chips, literature/books, I/O devices, storage, etc.
                   
                  As for MARCH, we have members all over the region, and spanning the whole range of vintage computing interests.  We also have live events a few times each year.  Currently we're planning a physical museum in Wall Township, N.J., and we're also planning to host a "light" version of the famous Vintage Computer Festival (vintage.org) next spring.
                   
                  Any questions?  Just ask!
                   
                  -- Evan Koblentz, a.k.a. "club prez because no one else was dumb enough to take the gig"


                  From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jtkirk1337
                  Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 5:14 PM
                  To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [midatlanticretro] starting out

                  Hi.
                  I'm a newbie here, and I have no collection. I am also probably one of
                  the youngest here (16). The closest thing I have right now to a
                  vintage computer is an NES system. Can anyone recommend a place where
                  I can aquire some computers from to try and start off? I have been
                  interested in vintage computers for around 4 years, but never really
                  got into it.

                  Thanks


                  A computer museum in Wall NJ? I'm about 15 miles from there. I'm in Jackson NJ. That is awesome. The only one I have seen is the one in the Smithsonian American History Museum a few years ago. Is there a newsletter to keep me updated on that?
                • Evan
                  Remember to trim long replies and threads. - EK _____ From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe
                  Message 8 of 21 , Sep 20, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Remember to trim long replies and threads.
                     
                    - EK


                    From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Giliberti
                    Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 1:34 PM
                    To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] starting out

                    Jim Scheef wrote:
                    Joe,

                    Part of my collection is early DOS "near compatibles", like a Zenith Z-100.
                    Someone was giving the computer away. My rarest find is a Seattle Gazelle
                    (S-100 bus, runs DOS, uses an external ASCII terminal) that a guy in New
                    Hampshire was giving away. Free is my favorite price, although the drive up
                    and back from NH took about 8 hours. Every Thursday or Friday (it varies in
                    different areas) grab the local newspaper and look thru the garage/yard/tag
                    sale ads for computers. Then on Saturday, get on your horse and hit every one
                    of thoses garage sales. The later in the day that you get there, the more
                    likely they are to give you the computer just to get rid of it.

                    Go for it. This is the fun part.
                  • chrism3667
                    Hey Jim, if the Gazelle can take S-100 cards, couldn t you plug a video card in, or is that not supported by the bios. I imagine there must have been either
                    Message 9 of 21 , Sep 20, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hey Jim, if the Gazelle can take S-100 cards, couldn't you plug a
                      video card in, or is that not supported by the bios. I imagine there
                      must have been either S-100 or multibus video cards offered (I realize
                      they're not the same thing though). Then there's the problem of
                      drivers I guess...
                    • Joe Giliberti
                      ... Just out of curiousity, what is an S-100 card? -Joe
                      Message 10 of 21 , Sep 20, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        chrism3667 wrote:
                        Hey Jim, if the Gazelle can take S-100 cards, couldn't you plug a
                        video card in, or is that not supported by the bios. I imagine there
                        must have been either S-100 or multibus video cards offered (I realize
                        they're not the same thing though). Then there's the problem of
                        drivers I guess...



                        Just out of curiousity, what is an S-100 card?

                        -Joe
                      • billdeg@aol.com
                        S-100 was a leading bus standard for comptuer cards of the mid 70 s through early 80 s. Bus is another way to say how input/output is routed into the
                        Message 11 of 21 , Sep 20, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          S-100 was a leading "bus" standard for comptuer cards of the mid 70's through
                          early 80's. Bus is another way to say how input/output is routed into the
                          computer processor, etc.

                          Basically they were just like computer cards that you stuck into a computer
                          today, and they had 50 double sided connectors (50x2 = 100). You can't put an
                          S-100 card in a modern computer. They had different dimensions than today's
                          cards, but they served the same purpose - add capabilities to a "base" system.
                          For example you could get an S-100 memory card to add more memory to your
                          computer. In those day's an S-100 memory card might only contain 16K.

                          I am not personally aware of any major system that was launched to feature
                          the S-100 (IEEE 696) bus much past 1980, but i do have electronics magazines
                          with ads selling S-100 cards well into the 80's.
                          Here is a link:
                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-100_bus
                          ...with an official definition and more details.

                          Bill

                          In a message dated 9/20/2005 11:55:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                          starbase89@... writes:

                          > Just out of curiousity, what is an S-100 card?
                          >
                          > -Joe
                        • Chris M
                          ... Joe...today we have AGP and PCI card slots (buses). In the past there was ISA, first 8-bit (IBM PC), then 16-bit (IBM AT), then Micro Channel (PS/2), EISA,
                          Message 12 of 21 , Sep 21, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- Joe Giliberti <starbase89@...> wrote:

                            > Just out of curiousity, what is an S-100 card?
                            >
                            > -Joe

                            Joe...today we have AGP and PCI card slots (buses).
                            In the past there was ISA, first 8-bit (IBM PC), then
                            16-bit (IBM AT), then Micro Channel (PS/2), EISA, VESA
                            local bus, etc. There was NUBUS on the early
                            expandable Macs. The purpose of a bus is to gain
                            access to the microprocessors own bus, a set of pins
                            that allow access to it's innards, and a way of it
                            gaining access to external peripherals. Running
                            between the micro and memory (ram or rom) is also a
                            bus, but it's so generic it doesn't need a special
                            name (the address/data bus, and the lines are common).
                            Expansion buses can also be proprietary. Cartridges
                            for consoles and puters are a bus system of their own,
                            but for the most part only tie into the address/data
                            pins. Essentially you're plugging in a new rom. IIRC
                            the Commodore 64 had something in addition to it's
                            cartridge slots. Many things could be interfaced in
                            that way, including data collection hardware, radio
                            packet stuph, etc. My heads starting to hurt...




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                          • Jim Scheef
                            Chris, Maybe. Probably. You answered your own question. The Gazelle doesn t have BIOS in the sence of what IBM put in the original PC. There is only a ROM
                            Message 13 of 21 , Sep 21, 2005
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                              Chris,

                              Maybe. Probably.

                              You answered your own question. The Gazelle doesn't have BIOS in the sence of
                              what IBM put in the original PC. There is only a ROM monitor program that
                              behaves like the DOS debug program. When you turn the machine on, the monitor
                              has control. Assuming you have the floppy drives connected and a bootable
                              floppy, you then press a reset button on the front panel and the monitor
                              tries to find something from which to boot the machine. I have no idea if any
                              of this will work today. If the machine does boot, the DOS is 2.0 so it
                              supports loadable device drivers. When I last played with the machine I was
                              trying to connect a hard drive to a MFM controller. My problem, like I told
                              you when you were here, is that I never could interface an 8" floppy to a
                              regular PC to get new programs (like device drivers) to the Seattle.

                              The Gazelle's 8" floppies have 1024 byte sectors, not the 512 used by just
                              about ever other DOS machine on the planet. If I had connected an 8" floppy
                              to a PC, the sector size would become the next challenge.

                              I should look for all that stuff before it's lost forever.

                              Jim

                              --- chrism3667 <chrism3667@...> wrote:

                              > Hey Jim, if the Gazelle can take S-100 cards, couldn't you plug a
                              > video card in, or is that not supported by the bios. I imagine there
                              > must have been either S-100 or multibus video cards offered (I realize
                              > they're not the same thing though). Then there's the problem of
                              > drivers I guess...
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Jim Scheef
                              Joe, The MITS Altair 8800 (the first personal computer?) had its circuits on plug-in cards that were inserted into a chassis with a row of sockets. The cards
                              Message 14 of 21 , Sep 21, 2005
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                                Joe,

                                The MITS Altair 8800 (the first personal computer?) had its circuits on
                                plug-in cards that were inserted into a chassis with a row of sockets. The
                                cards had 100 connectors. Other computers like the Apple II and the original
                                IBM PC also used an expandible (but different) architecture that allowed
                                plugging expansion cards into a bus. The Altair bus became known as the S100
                                standard, like the PC bus became known as ISA (industry standard
                                architecture). Many manufacturers supported the S100 bus back in the days of
                                CP/M. Seattle Computing was one of the few to make an S100 processor board
                                with an 8086. Type "s100 bus" into any search engine for moree info.

                                Jim
                              • Vintage Computer Festival
                                ... Actually, the S-100 (IEEE-696) standard survived well into the 1990s. I have some magazines (Microsystems maybe?) that still had articles and
                                Message 15 of 21 , Sep 21, 2005
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                                  On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 billdeg@... wrote:

                                  > I am not personally aware of any major system that was launched to feature
                                  > the S-100 (IEEE 696) bus much past 1980, but i do have electronics magazines
                                  > with ads selling S-100 cards well into the 80's.

                                  Actually, the S-100 (IEEE-696) standard survived well into the 1990s. I
                                  have some magazines (Microsystems maybe?) that still had articles and
                                  advertisements for S-100 stuff in the early 1990s. I'm sure there are
                                  still many S-100 bus machines running critical applications to this day.

                                  --

                                  Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
                                  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org

                                  [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
                                  [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
                                • Joe Giliberti
                                  ... But isn t s-100 even slower than ISA?
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Sep 21, 2005
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                                    Actually, the S-100 (IEEE-696) standard survived well into the 1990s.  I
                                    have some magazines (Microsystems maybe?) that still had articles and
                                    advertisements for S-100 stuff in the early 1990s.  I'm sure there are
                                    still many S-100 bus machines running critical applications to this day.



                                    But isn't s-100 even slower than ISA?
                                  • Chris M
                                    probably, 1 mhz, 4 mhz, whatever. For the applications that are operating on s-100 systems, I m sure speed isn t critical. CNC (Computer Numerical Control) for
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Sep 21, 2005
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                                      probably, 1 mhz, 4 mhz, whatever. For the applications
                                      that are operating on s-100 systems, I'm sure speed
                                      isn't critical. CNC (Computer Numerical Control) for
                                      instance doesn't require alot of speed (CNC lathes,
                                      mills, etc.). Often these apps are programmed in
                                      interpreted (as opposed to compiled) BASIC.
                                      Interpreted languages are popular in robotic systems.

                                      --- Joe Giliberti <starbase89@...> wrote:

                                      >
                                      > >
                                      > > Actually, the S-100 (IEEE-696) standard survived
                                      > well into the 1990s. I
                                      > > have some magazines (Microsystems maybe?) that
                                      > still had articles and
                                      > > advertisements for S-100 stuff in the early 1990s.
                                      > I'm sure there are
                                      > > still many S-100 bus machines running critical
                                      > applications to this day.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > But isn't s-100 even slower than ISA?
                                      >




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                                    • Chris M
                                      ... I would have guessed that it s version of DOS is customized just like all the sort-of-compatibles. But I had thought that MS-DOS utilizes (perhaps heavily)
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Sep 21, 2005
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                                        --- Jim Scheef <jscheef@...> wrote:

                                        > If the machine does boot,
                                        > the DOS is 2.0 so it
                                        > supports loadable device drivers.

                                        I would have guessed that it's version of DOS is
                                        customized just like all the sort-of-compatibles. But
                                        I had thought that MS-DOS utilizes (perhaps heavily)
                                        the programming interfaces built into the bios rom. I
                                        could be wrong. But if that's so, I'm surprised there
                                        was a version of DOS available for it at all. Was
                                        there a DOS available for Multibus 8086 systems?
                                        Regardless of the fact that it runs DOS 2.0, I think
                                        it's a function of the bios to search for a rom
                                        associated with a graphics controller.

                                        > The Gazelle's 8" floppies have 1024 byte sectors,
                                        > not the 512 used by just
                                        > about ever other DOS machine on the planet.

                                        I'm too lazy to do a simple search right now, but I'm
                                        thinking all 8" drives use 1024 byte sectors. Bracing
                                        for possible incoming *eggs*, my APC has 8" floppies,
                                        so my guess is that they're both compatible in that
                                        way at least. The Xerox 16/8 had as an option 8"
                                        drives, but those I don't have with mine (it is
                                        available though).
                                        The program written by Dave Dunfield (ImageDisk)
                                        would handle all that though I think. If you need
                                        particular help with something, he's very
                                        knowledgeable. The owner of one of the more notable
                                        vintage sites has a Gazelle Jim. You could enquire
                                        about software from that dude. If you're too busy,
                                        I'll do it for you. I want to see that bad-boy
                                        running, and even if it means taking a trip up there
                                        (with my APC) at some point, I'm willing.

                                        > If I had
                                        > connected an 8" floppy
                                        > to a PC, the sector size would become the next
                                        > challenge.

                                        I've been told recently that 8" drives can be readily
                                        replaced with high density 1.2 meggers. Not sure if
                                        it'll work the other way around though. I'm going to
                                        be playing with this stuph more in the coming weeks....



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