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Re: starting out

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  • billdeg
    I have found cheap vintage gear at the local flea market and sometimes the resell/goodwill shop. At least half the time the items are non- functional (and the
    Message 1 of 21 , Sep 19, 2005
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      I have found cheap vintage gear at the local flea market and sometimes
      the resell/goodwill shop. At least half the time the items are non-
      functional (and the fun begins), but once in a while you really find
      something fantastic. There is a good book called "Collectible
      Microcomputers" that you can use as a field guide so that when you're
      snooping around you can identify vintage computers easier, and get a
      general idea of what they are worth. The prices are a little out of
      date, but close enough. Most people on this list search ebay.com and
      the vintagecomputermarketplace.com, but it's best to start locally to
      avoid shipping costs.

      Bill D

      --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "jtkirk1337" <starbase89@o...>
      wrote:
      > Hi.
      > I'm a newbie here, and I have no collection. I am also probably one of
      > the youngest here (16). The closest thing I have right now to a
      > vintage computer is an NES system. Can anyone recommend a place where
      > I can aquire some computers from to try and start off? I have been
      > interested in vintage computers for around 4 years, but never really
      > got into it.
      >
      > Thanks
    • Joe Giliberti
      ... I have looked at a few of the online meseums as well, mainly www.old-computers.com. I ve been looking for the basics first, things like Apple IIs,
      Message 2 of 21 , Sep 19, 2005
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        billdeg wrote:
        I have found cheap vintage gear at the local flea market and sometimes
        the resell/goodwill shop.  At least half the time the items are non-
        functional (and the fun begins), but once in a while you really find
        something fantastic.  There is a good book called "Collectible
        Microcomputers" that you can use as a field guide so that when you're
        snooping around you can identify vintage computers easier, and get a
        general idea of what they are worth.  The prices are a little out of
        date, but close enough.  Most people on this list search ebay.com and
        the vintagecomputermarketplace.com, but it's best to start locally to
        avoid shipping costs. 

        Bill D

        --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "jtkirk1337" <starbase89@o...>
        wrote:
        > Hi.
        > I'm a newbie here, and I have no collection. I am also probably one of
        > the youngest here (16). The closest thing I have right now to a
        > vintage computer is an NES system. Can anyone recommend a place where
        > I can aquire some computers from to try and start off? I have been
        > interested in vintage computers for around 4 years, but never really
        > got into it.
        >
        > Thanks


        I have looked at a few of the online meseums as well, mainly www.old-computers.com. I've been looking for the basics first, things like Apple IIs, Commodores, Tandys, Ataris, ect. And later on, when I have more money, I figured I'd get into some of the rarer things.

      • Jim Scheef
        Hi back, You didn t give your name. Both of the other replies have been sage advice. I ll add a suggestion to not worry so much about what s rare or old but
        Message 3 of 21 , Sep 19, 2005
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          Hi back,

          You didn't give your name.

          Both of the other replies have been sage advice. I'll add a suggestion to not
          worry so much about what's rare or old but rather collect what you like. I
          like my old computers to work, meaning that they can do more than just turn
          on and glow in the dark, but can do real, useful tasks. This means that most
          of what I collect is newer than what many of the others here call 'vintage'.
          Tonite I was bidding on eBay for a laptop that most people here would not
          even consider collectible. I didn't win because there were at least ten
          others bidding for the same item. For me, part of the collecting fun is
          finding bargans. So if what you like is playing video games, collect game
          consoles and the games that make them fun. Game consoles and old home
          computers are often given away at garage/yard/tag sales.

          BTW, what is an NES system?

          Jim

          --- jtkirk1337 <starbase89@...> wrote:

          > Hi.
          > I'm a newbie here, and I have no collection. I am also probably one of
          > the youngest here (16). The closest thing I have right now to a
          > vintage computer is an NES system. Can anyone recommend a place where
          > I can aquire some computers from to try and start off? I have been
          > interested in vintage computers for around 4 years, but never really
          > got into it.
          >
          > Thanks
          >
          >
          >
        • Joe Giliberti
          ... NES is Nintendo Entertainment System. My name is Joe, by the way. I m mainly interested in Apples, Amigas, Ataris, and Commodores. And I would want to have
          Message 4 of 21 , Sep 19, 2005
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            Jim Scheef wrote:
            Hi back,

            You didn't give your name.

            Both of the other replies have been sage advice. I'll add a suggestion to not
            worry so much about what's rare or old but rather collect what you like. I
            like my old computers to work, meaning that they can do more than just turn
            on and glow in the dark, but can do real, useful tasks. This means that most
            of what I collect is newer than what many of the others here call 'vintage'.
            Tonite I was bidding on eBay for a laptop that most people here would not
            even consider collectible. I didn't win because there were at least ten
            others bidding for the same item. For me, part of the collecting fun is
            finding bargans. So if what you like is playing video games, collect game
            consoles and the games that make them fun. Game consoles and old home
            computers are often given away at garage/yard/tag sales.

            BTW, what is an NES system?

            Jim

            --- jtkirk1337 <starbase89@...> wrote:

            > Hi.
            > I'm a newbie here, and I have no collection. I am also probably one of
            > the youngest here (16). The closest thing I have right now to a
            > vintage computer is an NES system. Can anyone recommend a place where
            > I can aquire some computers from to try and start off? I have been
            > interested in vintage computers for around 4 years, but never really
            > got into it.
            >
            > Thanks
            >
            >
            >

            NES is Nintendo Entertainment System. My name is Joe, by the way. I'm mainly interested in Apples, Amigas, Ataris, and Commodores. And I would want to have them working. I wouldn't pay for just a showpiece. My budget is too tight. An older luggable, maybe an SX-64 or a Kaypro would be cool.

          • Evan
            Joe, Welcome to our hobby and club! How did you learn about us? Where in the mid-atlantic region do you live? Who am I: Besides running MARCH, I m also the
            Message 5 of 21 , Sep 19, 2005
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              Joe,
               
              Welcome to our hobby and club!
               
              How did you learn about us?  Where in the mid-atlantic region do you live?
               
              Who am I: Besides running MARCH, I'm also the editor of Computer Collector Newsletter, which has worldwide readership.
               
              Anyway, you'll find that most collectors either get a little of everything and anything, or they pick a specialty and become experts in it.  For example, I chose the latter route -- I collect vintage handhelds and laptops almost exclusively.
               
              I suggest that you join the mailing list called "cctalk" based at www.classiccmp.org -- that's the largest global mailing list for the hobby.  You can also use the web forum at www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum, which in addition has classified ads.  Other ads are at www.vintagecomputermarketplace.com, and you should buy Michael Nadeau's book "Collectible Microcomputers", both as noted by Bill Degnan.  And as you found, the site www.old-computers.com is a great online encyclopedia.
               
              Keep in mind that there's much more to collect besides microcomputers.  Many people get into minicomputers, and many people keep into the various kinds of software, chips, literature/books, I/O devices, storage, etc.
               
              As for MARCH, we have members all over the region, and spanning the whole range of vintage computing interests.  We also have live events a few times each year.  Currently we're planning a physical museum in Wall Township, N.J., and we're also planning to host a "light" version of the famous Vintage Computer Festival (vintage.org) next spring.
               
              Any questions?  Just ask!
               
              -- Evan Koblentz, a.k.a. "club prez because no one else was dumb enough to take the gig"


              From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jtkirk1337
              Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 5:14 PM
              To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [midatlanticretro] starting out

              Hi.
              I'm a newbie here, and I have no collection. I am also probably one of
              the youngest here (16). The closest thing I have right now to a
              vintage computer is an NES system. Can anyone recommend a place where
              I can aquire some computers from to try and start off? I have been
              interested in vintage computers for around 4 years, but never really
              got into it.

              Thanks


            • Jim Scheef
              Joe, Part of my collection is early DOS near compatibles , like a Zenith Z-100. Someone was giving the computer away. My rarest find is a Seattle Gazelle
              Message 6 of 21 , Sep 20, 2005
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                Joe,

                Part of my collection is early DOS "near compatibles", like a Zenith Z-100.
                Someone was giving the computer away. My rarest find is a Seattle Gazelle
                (S-100 bus, runs DOS, uses an external ASCII terminal) that a guy in New
                Hampshire was giving away. Free is my favorite price, although the drive up
                and back from NH took about 8 hours. Every Thursday or Friday (it varies in
                different areas) grab the local newspaper and look thru the garage/yard/tag
                sale ads for computers. Then on Saturday, get on your horse and hit every one
                of thoses garage sales. The later in the day that you get there, the more
                likely they are to give you the computer just to get rid of it.

                Go for it. This is the fun part.

                Jim

                --- Joe Giliberti <starbase89@...> wrote:

                > Jim Scheef wrote:
                >
                > > Hi back,
                > >
                > > You didn't give your name.
                > >
                > > Both of the other replies have been sage advice. I'll add a suggestion
                > > to not
                > > worry so much about what's rare or old but rather collect what you like.
                > I
                > > like my old computers to work, meaning that they can do more than just
                > > turn
                > > on and glow in the dark, but can do real, useful tasks. This means
                > > that most
                > > of what I collect is newer than what many of the others here call
                > > 'vintage'.
                > > Tonite I was bidding on eBay for a laptop that most people here would not
                > > even consider collectible. I didn't win because there were at least ten
                > > others bidding for the same item. For me, part of the collecting fun is
                > > finding bargans. So if what you like is playing video games, collect game
                > > consoles and the games that make them fun. Game consoles and old home
                > > computers are often given away at garage/yard/tag sales.
                > >
                > > BTW, what is an NES system?
                > >
                > > Jim
                > >
                > > --- jtkirk1337 <starbase89@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > > Hi.
                > > > I'm a newbie here, and I have no collection. I am also probably one of
                > > > the youngest here (16). The closest thing I have right now to a
                > > > vintage computer is an NES system. Can anyone recommend a place where
                > > > I can aquire some computers from to try and start off? I have been
                > > > interested in vintage computers for around 4 years, but never really
                > > > got into it.
                > > >
                > > > Thanks
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > SPONSORED LINKS
                > > Vintage computer
                > >
                >
                <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vintage+computer&w1=Vintage+computer&w2=Field+trip&w3=Computer+security&w4=Computer+training&c=4&s=84&.sig=t9pasmT32p-p2BvQtk8vAw>
                >
                > > Field trip
                > >
                >
                <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Field+trip&w1=Vintage+computer&w2=Field+trip&w3=Computer+security&w4=Computer+training&c=4&s=84&.sig=Et_lpqgaXhbeqtlUXREsiw>
                >
                > > Computer security
                > >
                >
                <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Computer+security&w1=Vintage+computer&w2=Field+trip&w3=Computer+security&w4=Computer+training&c=4&s=84&.sig=lTI9crE846HktRyJ9cnRXA>
                >
                > >
                > > Computer training
                > >
                >
                <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Computer+training&w1=Vintage+computer&w2=Field+trip&w3=Computer+security&w4=Computer+training&c=4&s=84&.sig=vvepx7-O7ZQcFHPC0FpTNA>
                >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                > >
                > > * Visit your group "midatlanticretro
                > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro>" on the web.
                > >
                > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > midatlanticretro-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > >
                > <mailto:midatlanticretro-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                > >
                > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                > > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > >
                > NES is Nintendo Entertainment System. My name is Joe, by the way. I'm
                > mainly interested in Apples, Amigas, Ataris, and Commodores. And I would
                > want to have them working. I wouldn't pay for just a showpiece. My
                > budget is too tight. An older luggable, maybe an SX-64 or a Kaypro would
                > be cool.
                >
                >
              • Joe Giliberti
                ... A computer museum in Wall NJ? I m about 15 miles from there. I m in Jackson NJ. That is awesome. The only one I have seen is the one in the Smithsonian
                Message 7 of 21 , Sep 20, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Evan wrote:
                  Joe,
                   
                  Welcome to our hobby and club!
                   
                  How did you learn about us?  Where in the mid-atlantic region do you live?
                   
                  Who am I: Besides running MARCH, I'm also the editor of Computer Collector Newsletter, which has worldwide readership.
                   
                  Anyway, you'll find that most collectors either get a little of everything and anything, or they pick a specialty and become experts in it.  For example, I chose the latter route -- I collect vintage handhelds and laptops almost exclusively.
                   
                  I suggest that you join the mailing list called "cctalk" based at www.classiccmp.org -- that's the largest global mailing list for the hobby.  You can also use the web forum at www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum, which in addition has classified ads.  Other ads are at www.vintagecomputermarketplace.com, and you should buy Michael Nadeau's book "Collectible Microcomputers", both as noted by Bill Degnan.  And as you found, the site www.old-computers.com is a great online encyclopedia.
                   
                  Keep in mind that there's much more to collect besides microcomputers.  Many people get into minicomputers, and many people keep into the various kinds of software, chips, literature/books, I/O devices, storage, etc.
                   
                  As for MARCH, we have members all over the region, and spanning the whole range of vintage computing interests.  We also have live events a few times each year.  Currently we're planning a physical museum in Wall Township, N.J., and we're also planning to host a "light" version of the famous Vintage Computer Festival (vintage.org) next spring.
                   
                  Any questions?  Just ask!
                   
                  -- Evan Koblentz, a.k.a. "club prez because no one else was dumb enough to take the gig"


                  From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jtkirk1337
                  Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 5:14 PM
                  To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [midatlanticretro] starting out

                  Hi.
                  I'm a newbie here, and I have no collection. I am also probably one of
                  the youngest here (16). The closest thing I have right now to a
                  vintage computer is an NES system. Can anyone recommend a place where
                  I can aquire some computers from to try and start off? I have been
                  interested in vintage computers for around 4 years, but never really
                  got into it.

                  Thanks


                  A computer museum in Wall NJ? I'm about 15 miles from there. I'm in Jackson NJ. That is awesome. The only one I have seen is the one in the Smithsonian American History Museum a few years ago. Is there a newsletter to keep me updated on that?
                • Joe Giliberti
                  ... I have to rely on my parents for the horse , but I do check newspapers, Craigslist, and Freecycle regularly
                  Message 8 of 21 , Sep 20, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Jim Scheef wrote:
                    Joe,

                    Part of my collection is early DOS "near compatibles", like a Zenith Z-100.
                    Someone was giving the computer away. My rarest find is a Seattle Gazelle
                    (S-100 bus, runs DOS, uses an external ASCII terminal) that a guy in New
                    Hampshire was giving away. Free is my favorite price, although the drive up
                    and back from NH took about 8 hours. Every Thursday or Friday (it varies in
                    different areas) grab the local newspaper and look thru the garage/yard/tag
                    sale ads for computers. Then on Saturday, get on your horse and hit every one
                    of thoses garage sales. The later in the day that you get there, the more
                    likely they are to give you the computer just to get rid of it.

                    Go for it. This is the fun part.

                    Jim

                    --- Joe Giliberti <starbase89@...> wrote:

                    > Jim Scheef wrote:
                    >
                    > > Hi back,
                    > >
                    > > You didn't give your name.
                    > >
                    > > Both of the other replies have been sage advice. I'll add a suggestion
                    > > to not
                    > > worry so much about what's rare or old but rather collect what you like.
                    > I
                    > > like my old computers to work, meaning that they can do more than just
                    > > turn
                    > > on and glow in the dark, but can do real, useful tasks. This means
                    > > that most
                    > > of what I collect is newer than what many of the others here call
                    > > 'vintage'.
                    > > Tonite I was bidding on eBay for a laptop that most people here would not
                    > > even consider collectible. I didn't win because there were at least ten
                    > > others bidding for the same item. For me, part of the collecting fun is
                    > > finding bargans. So if what you like is playing video games, collect game
                    > > consoles and the games that make them fun. Game consoles and old home
                    > > computers are often given away at garage/yard/tag sales.
                    > >
                    > > BTW, what is an NES system?
                    > >
                    > > Jim
                    > >
                    > > --- jtkirk1337 <starbase89@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > Hi.
                    > > > I'm a newbie here, and I have no collection. I am also probably one of
                    > > > the youngest here (16). The closest thing I have right now to a
                    > > > vintage computer is an NES system. Can anyone recommend a place where
                    > > > I can aquire some computers from to try and start off? I have been
                    > > > interested in vintage computers for around 4 years, but never really
                    > > > got into it.
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > SPONSORED LINKS
                    > > Vintage computer
                    > >
                    >
                    <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Vintage+computer&w1=Vintage+computer&w2=Field+trip&w3=Computer+security&w4=Computer+training&c=4&s=84&.sig=t9pasmT32p-p2BvQtk8vAw>
                    >
                    > >       Field trip
                    > >
                    >
                    <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Field+trip&w1=Vintage+computer&w2=Field+trip&w3=Computer+security&w4=Computer+training&c=4&s=84&.sig=Et_lpqgaXhbeqtlUXREsiw>
                    >
                    > >       Computer security
                    > >
                    >
                    <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Computer+security&w1=Vintage+computer&w2=Field+trip&w3=Computer+security&w4=Computer+training&c=4&s=84&.sig=lTI9crE846HktRyJ9cnRXA>
                    >
                    > >
                    > > Computer training
                    > >
                    >
                    <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Computer+training&w1=Vintage+computer&w2=Field+trip&w3=Computer+security&w4=Computer+training&c=4&s=84&.sig=vvepx7-O7ZQcFHPC0FpTNA>
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                    > >
                    > >     *  Visit your group "midatlanticretro
                    > >       <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro>" on the web.
                    > >       
                    > >     *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > >        midatlanticretro-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > >     
                    > <mailto:midatlanticretro-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                    > >       
                    > >     *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    > >       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > >
                    > NES is Nintendo Entertainment System. My name is Joe, by the way. I'm
                    > mainly interested in Apples, Amigas, Ataris, and Commodores. And I would
                    > want to have them working. I wouldn't pay for just a showpiece. My
                    > budget is too tight. An older luggable, maybe an SX-64 or a Kaypro would
                    > be cool.
                    >
                    >

                    I have to rely on my parents for the "horse", but I do check newspapers, Craigslist, and Freecycle regularly
                  • Evan
                    Joe, see my off-list reply. _____ From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Giliberti Sent: Tuesday,
                    Message 9 of 21 , Sep 20, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Joe, see my off-list reply.


                      From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Giliberti
                      Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 1:32 PM
                      To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] starting out

                      Evan wrote:
                      Joe,
                       
                      Welcome to our hobby and club!
                       
                      How did you learn about us?  Where in the mid-atlantic region do you live?
                       
                      Who am I: Besides running MARCH, I'm also the editor of Computer Collector Newsletter, which has worldwide readership.
                       
                      Anyway, you'll find that most collectors either get a little of everything and anything, or they pick a specialty and become experts in it.  For example, I chose the latter route -- I collect vintage handhelds and laptops almost exclusively.
                       
                      I suggest that you join the mailing list called "cctalk" based at www.classiccmp.org -- that's the largest global mailing list for the hobby.  You can also use the web forum at www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum, which in addition has classified ads.  Other ads are at www.vintagecomputermarketplace.com, and you should buy Michael Nadeau's book "Collectible Microcomputers", both as noted by Bill Degnan.  And as you found, the site www.old-computers.com is a great online encyclopedia.
                       
                      Keep in mind that there's much more to collect besides microcomputers.  Many people get into minicomputers, and many people keep into the various kinds of software, chips, literature/books, I/O devices, storage, etc.
                       
                      As for MARCH, we have members all over the region, and spanning the whole range of vintage computing interests.  We also have live events a few times each year.  Currently we're planning a physical museum in Wall Township, N.J., and we're also planning to host a "light" version of the famous Vintage Computer Festival (vintage.org) next spring.
                       
                      Any questions?  Just ask!
                       
                      -- Evan Koblentz, a.k.a. "club prez because no one else was dumb enough to take the gig"


                      From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jtkirk1337
                      Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 5:14 PM
                      To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [midatlanticretro] starting out

                      Hi.
                      I'm a newbie here, and I have no collection. I am also probably one of
                      the youngest here (16). The closest thing I have right now to a
                      vintage computer is an NES system. Can anyone recommend a place where
                      I can aquire some computers from to try and start off? I have been
                      interested in vintage computers for around 4 years, but never really
                      got into it.

                      Thanks


                      A computer museum in Wall NJ? I'm about 15 miles from there. I'm in Jackson NJ. That is awesome. The only one I have seen is the one in the Smithsonian American History Museum a few years ago. Is there a newsletter to keep me updated on that?
                    • Evan
                      Remember to trim long replies and threads. - EK _____ From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe
                      Message 10 of 21 , Sep 20, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Remember to trim long replies and threads.
                         
                        - EK


                        From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Giliberti
                        Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 1:34 PM
                        To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] starting out

                        Jim Scheef wrote:
                        Joe,

                        Part of my collection is early DOS "near compatibles", like a Zenith Z-100.
                        Someone was giving the computer away. My rarest find is a Seattle Gazelle
                        (S-100 bus, runs DOS, uses an external ASCII terminal) that a guy in New
                        Hampshire was giving away. Free is my favorite price, although the drive up
                        and back from NH took about 8 hours. Every Thursday or Friday (it varies in
                        different areas) grab the local newspaper and look thru the garage/yard/tag
                        sale ads for computers. Then on Saturday, get on your horse and hit every one
                        of thoses garage sales. The later in the day that you get there, the more
                        likely they are to give you the computer just to get rid of it.

                        Go for it. This is the fun part.
                      • chrism3667
                        Hey Jim, if the Gazelle can take S-100 cards, couldn t you plug a video card in, or is that not supported by the bios. I imagine there must have been either
                        Message 11 of 21 , Sep 20, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hey Jim, if the Gazelle can take S-100 cards, couldn't you plug a
                          video card in, or is that not supported by the bios. I imagine there
                          must have been either S-100 or multibus video cards offered (I realize
                          they're not the same thing though). Then there's the problem of
                          drivers I guess...
                        • Joe Giliberti
                          ... Just out of curiousity, what is an S-100 card? -Joe
                          Message 12 of 21 , Sep 20, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            chrism3667 wrote:
                            Hey Jim, if the Gazelle can take S-100 cards, couldn't you plug a
                            video card in, or is that not supported by the bios. I imagine there
                            must have been either S-100 or multibus video cards offered (I realize
                            they're not the same thing though). Then there's the problem of
                            drivers I guess...



                            Just out of curiousity, what is an S-100 card?

                            -Joe
                          • billdeg@aol.com
                            S-100 was a leading bus standard for comptuer cards of the mid 70 s through early 80 s. Bus is another way to say how input/output is routed into the
                            Message 13 of 21 , Sep 20, 2005
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                              S-100 was a leading "bus" standard for comptuer cards of the mid 70's through
                              early 80's. Bus is another way to say how input/output is routed into the
                              computer processor, etc.

                              Basically they were just like computer cards that you stuck into a computer
                              today, and they had 50 double sided connectors (50x2 = 100). You can't put an
                              S-100 card in a modern computer. They had different dimensions than today's
                              cards, but they served the same purpose - add capabilities to a "base" system.
                              For example you could get an S-100 memory card to add more memory to your
                              computer. In those day's an S-100 memory card might only contain 16K.

                              I am not personally aware of any major system that was launched to feature
                              the S-100 (IEEE 696) bus much past 1980, but i do have electronics magazines
                              with ads selling S-100 cards well into the 80's.
                              Here is a link:
                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-100_bus
                              ...with an official definition and more details.

                              Bill

                              In a message dated 9/20/2005 11:55:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                              starbase89@... writes:

                              > Just out of curiousity, what is an S-100 card?
                              >
                              > -Joe
                            • Chris M
                              ... Joe...today we have AGP and PCI card slots (buses). In the past there was ISA, first 8-bit (IBM PC), then 16-bit (IBM AT), then Micro Channel (PS/2), EISA,
                              Message 14 of 21 , Sep 21, 2005
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                                --- Joe Giliberti <starbase89@...> wrote:

                                > Just out of curiousity, what is an S-100 card?
                                >
                                > -Joe

                                Joe...today we have AGP and PCI card slots (buses).
                                In the past there was ISA, first 8-bit (IBM PC), then
                                16-bit (IBM AT), then Micro Channel (PS/2), EISA, VESA
                                local bus, etc. There was NUBUS on the early
                                expandable Macs. The purpose of a bus is to gain
                                access to the microprocessors own bus, a set of pins
                                that allow access to it's innards, and a way of it
                                gaining access to external peripherals. Running
                                between the micro and memory (ram or rom) is also a
                                bus, but it's so generic it doesn't need a special
                                name (the address/data bus, and the lines are common).
                                Expansion buses can also be proprietary. Cartridges
                                for consoles and puters are a bus system of their own,
                                but for the most part only tie into the address/data
                                pins. Essentially you're plugging in a new rom. IIRC
                                the Commodore 64 had something in addition to it's
                                cartridge slots. Many things could be interfaced in
                                that way, including data collection hardware, radio
                                packet stuph, etc. My heads starting to hurt...




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                              • Jim Scheef
                                Chris, Maybe. Probably. You answered your own question. The Gazelle doesn t have BIOS in the sence of what IBM put in the original PC. There is only a ROM
                                Message 15 of 21 , Sep 21, 2005
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                                  Chris,

                                  Maybe. Probably.

                                  You answered your own question. The Gazelle doesn't have BIOS in the sence of
                                  what IBM put in the original PC. There is only a ROM monitor program that
                                  behaves like the DOS debug program. When you turn the machine on, the monitor
                                  has control. Assuming you have the floppy drives connected and a bootable
                                  floppy, you then press a reset button on the front panel and the monitor
                                  tries to find something from which to boot the machine. I have no idea if any
                                  of this will work today. If the machine does boot, the DOS is 2.0 so it
                                  supports loadable device drivers. When I last played with the machine I was
                                  trying to connect a hard drive to a MFM controller. My problem, like I told
                                  you when you were here, is that I never could interface an 8" floppy to a
                                  regular PC to get new programs (like device drivers) to the Seattle.

                                  The Gazelle's 8" floppies have 1024 byte sectors, not the 512 used by just
                                  about ever other DOS machine on the planet. If I had connected an 8" floppy
                                  to a PC, the sector size would become the next challenge.

                                  I should look for all that stuff before it's lost forever.

                                  Jim

                                  --- chrism3667 <chrism3667@...> wrote:

                                  > Hey Jim, if the Gazelle can take S-100 cards, couldn't you plug a
                                  > video card in, or is that not supported by the bios. I imagine there
                                  > must have been either S-100 or multibus video cards offered (I realize
                                  > they're not the same thing though). Then there's the problem of
                                  > drivers I guess...
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Jim Scheef
                                  Joe, The MITS Altair 8800 (the first personal computer?) had its circuits on plug-in cards that were inserted into a chassis with a row of sockets. The cards
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Sep 21, 2005
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                                    Joe,

                                    The MITS Altair 8800 (the first personal computer?) had its circuits on
                                    plug-in cards that were inserted into a chassis with a row of sockets. The
                                    cards had 100 connectors. Other computers like the Apple II and the original
                                    IBM PC also used an expandible (but different) architecture that allowed
                                    plugging expansion cards into a bus. The Altair bus became known as the S100
                                    standard, like the PC bus became known as ISA (industry standard
                                    architecture). Many manufacturers supported the S100 bus back in the days of
                                    CP/M. Seattle Computing was one of the few to make an S100 processor board
                                    with an 8086. Type "s100 bus" into any search engine for moree info.

                                    Jim
                                  • Vintage Computer Festival
                                    ... Actually, the S-100 (IEEE-696) standard survived well into the 1990s. I have some magazines (Microsystems maybe?) that still had articles and
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Sep 21, 2005
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                                      On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 billdeg@... wrote:

                                      > I am not personally aware of any major system that was launched to feature
                                      > the S-100 (IEEE 696) bus much past 1980, but i do have electronics magazines
                                      > with ads selling S-100 cards well into the 80's.

                                      Actually, the S-100 (IEEE-696) standard survived well into the 1990s. I
                                      have some magazines (Microsystems maybe?) that still had articles and
                                      advertisements for S-100 stuff in the early 1990s. I'm sure there are
                                      still many S-100 bus machines running critical applications to this day.

                                      --

                                      Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
                                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org

                                      [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
                                      [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
                                    • Joe Giliberti
                                      ... But isn t s-100 even slower than ISA?
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Sep 21, 2005
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                                        Actually, the S-100 (IEEE-696) standard survived well into the 1990s.  I
                                        have some magazines (Microsystems maybe?) that still had articles and
                                        advertisements for S-100 stuff in the early 1990s.  I'm sure there are
                                        still many S-100 bus machines running critical applications to this day.



                                        But isn't s-100 even slower than ISA?
                                      • Chris M
                                        probably, 1 mhz, 4 mhz, whatever. For the applications that are operating on s-100 systems, I m sure speed isn t critical. CNC (Computer Numerical Control) for
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Sep 21, 2005
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                                          probably, 1 mhz, 4 mhz, whatever. For the applications
                                          that are operating on s-100 systems, I'm sure speed
                                          isn't critical. CNC (Computer Numerical Control) for
                                          instance doesn't require alot of speed (CNC lathes,
                                          mills, etc.). Often these apps are programmed in
                                          interpreted (as opposed to compiled) BASIC.
                                          Interpreted languages are popular in robotic systems.

                                          --- Joe Giliberti <starbase89@...> wrote:

                                          >
                                          > >
                                          > > Actually, the S-100 (IEEE-696) standard survived
                                          > well into the 1990s. I
                                          > > have some magazines (Microsystems maybe?) that
                                          > still had articles and
                                          > > advertisements for S-100 stuff in the early 1990s.
                                          > I'm sure there are
                                          > > still many S-100 bus machines running critical
                                          > applications to this day.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > But isn't s-100 even slower than ISA?
                                          >




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                                        • Chris M
                                          ... I would have guessed that it s version of DOS is customized just like all the sort-of-compatibles. But I had thought that MS-DOS utilizes (perhaps heavily)
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Sep 21, 2005
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                                            --- Jim Scheef <jscheef@...> wrote:

                                            > If the machine does boot,
                                            > the DOS is 2.0 so it
                                            > supports loadable device drivers.

                                            I would have guessed that it's version of DOS is
                                            customized just like all the sort-of-compatibles. But
                                            I had thought that MS-DOS utilizes (perhaps heavily)
                                            the programming interfaces built into the bios rom. I
                                            could be wrong. But if that's so, I'm surprised there
                                            was a version of DOS available for it at all. Was
                                            there a DOS available for Multibus 8086 systems?
                                            Regardless of the fact that it runs DOS 2.0, I think
                                            it's a function of the bios to search for a rom
                                            associated with a graphics controller.

                                            > The Gazelle's 8" floppies have 1024 byte sectors,
                                            > not the 512 used by just
                                            > about ever other DOS machine on the planet.

                                            I'm too lazy to do a simple search right now, but I'm
                                            thinking all 8" drives use 1024 byte sectors. Bracing
                                            for possible incoming *eggs*, my APC has 8" floppies,
                                            so my guess is that they're both compatible in that
                                            way at least. The Xerox 16/8 had as an option 8"
                                            drives, but those I don't have with mine (it is
                                            available though).
                                            The program written by Dave Dunfield (ImageDisk)
                                            would handle all that though I think. If you need
                                            particular help with something, he's very
                                            knowledgeable. The owner of one of the more notable
                                            vintage sites has a Gazelle Jim. You could enquire
                                            about software from that dude. If you're too busy,
                                            I'll do it for you. I want to see that bad-boy
                                            running, and even if it means taking a trip up there
                                            (with my APC) at some point, I'm willing.

                                            > If I had
                                            > connected an 8" floppy
                                            > to a PC, the sector size would become the next
                                            > challenge.

                                            I've been told recently that 8" drives can be readily
                                            replaced with high density 1.2 meggers. Not sure if
                                            it'll work the other way around though. I'm going to
                                            be playing with this stuph more in the coming weeks....



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