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RE: [midatlanticretro] what is considered a vintage apple computer?

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  • Evan
    I m confused. Do mean THE original as in IBM PC, serial number 1, or do you mean a machine like the 5100, which was IBM s first microcomputer long before
    Message 1 of 19 , Aug 2 5:53 AM
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      I'm confused.  Do mean "THE original" as in IBM PC, serial number 1, or do you mean a machine like the 5100, which was IBM's first microcomputer long before the "PC" series?
       
      If it's the former, serial number 1, then it should reside in a museum -- like ours, since we'll be the nearest computer museum to IBM headquarters in Armonk, NY.


      From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of madodel@...
      Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 7:09 AM
      To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] what is considered a vintage apple computer?

      In, on 08/02/05 at 12:17 AM,
         "Evan" <evan947@...> said:



      >>>>  Can you
      imagine the value of the very first IBM PC?
      >
      >We certainly can,
      and it's not high as you might think.  The original IBM
      >PC - aka the
      Model 5150 - is worth about $50-$150 depending on condition,
      >according to
      Mike Nadeau's book "Collectible Microcomputers".  The book
      >is a year
      or two old, but the price is fairly steady.
      >

      My point was not that it was an original IBM PC, but it was THE original
      IBM PC. The very first one.  That puppy lead to the most successful
      computer introduction ever.  IBM had predicted a total life sales of about
      275,000 over 5 years for the PC.  They had about 500,000 sold before it
      was even officially announced.  And now IBM is out of the PC business.


      >I believe most people in the PS/2 universe, and
      elsewhere in x86-land,
      >still consider themselves "users" more than
      "collectors".
      >
      >An original PS/2 - which I hope you're not paying
      any more than about $50
      >for in great condition - might be considered
      really vintage and
      >collectible in another couple of years for its
      20th
      >anniversary.

      I agree.  Though there was just a model 55SX on eBay that was still in the
      original shipping box, never used.  It had been in a computer dealer's
      storage for about 15 years.  That I was willing to go as high as $150
      before I gave up.  At $150 I thought it was way too high, however I'm
      looking for vintage PS/2's for a specific reason, but some collectors are
      just plain nuts. ;-) 

      Mark


      --

      From the eComStation Desktop of: Mark Dodel

      Warpstock 2005, Hershey, Pennsylvania, October 6 - 9, 2005  http://www.warpstock.org
      Warpstock Europe 2005, Dresden, Germany, Nov. 18-20 http://www.warpstock.net

      For a choice in the future of personal computing, Join VOICE - http://www.os2voice.org

        "The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself.   That in it's essence, is Fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group or by any controlling private power." Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Message proposing the Monopoly Investigation, 1938

    • Bob Applegate
      The PC was designed in Boca Raton, not Armonk. BTW, one of the main architects of the original PC was a guy named Lew Eggebrecht (hope I got the spelling
      Message 2 of 19 , Aug 2 5:58 AM
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        The PC was designed in Boca Raton, not Armonk.
         
        BTW, one of the main architects of the original PC was a guy named Lew Eggebrecht (hope I got the
        spelling right).  He floated around southern NJ at high-tech companies after leaving IBM.  He was at
        Franklin Computer from around 83 to 84, then DGM&S in the late 80s.  The last I heard, he was out
        west doing something.
         
        Lew personally designed MUCH of the original PC.  There are others on this list who worked
        directly for him and can probably share some of their experiences/knowledge.
         
        Bob
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Evan
        Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 8:53 AM
        Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] what is considered a vintage apple computer?

        I'm confused.  Do mean "THE original" as in IBM PC, serial number 1, or do you mean a machine like the 5100, which was IBM's first microcomputer long before the "PC" series?
         
        If it's the former, serial number 1, then it should reside in a museum -- like ours, since we'll be the nearest computer museum to IBM headquarters in Armonk, NY.


        From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of madodel@...
        Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 7:09 AM
        To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] what is considered a vintage apple computer?

        In, on 08/02/05 at 12:17 AM,
           "Evan" <evan947@...> said:



        >>>>  Can you imagine the value of the very first IBM PC?
        >
        >We certainly can, and it's not high as you might think.  The original IBM
        >PC - aka the Model 5150 - is worth about $50-$150 depending on condition,
        >according to Mike Nadeau's book "Collectible Microcomputers".  The book
        >is a year or two old, but the price is fairly steady.
        >

        My point was not that it was an original IBM PC, but it was THE original
        IBM PC. The very first one.  That puppy lead to the most successful
        computer introduction ever.  IBM had predicted a total life sales of about
        275,000 over 5 years for the PC.  They had about 500,000 sold before it
        was even officially announced.  And now IBM is out of the PC business.


        >I believe most people in the PS/2 universe, and elsewhere in x86-land,
        >still consider themselves "users" more than "collectors".
        >
        >An original PS/2 - which I hope you're not paying any more than about $50
        >for in great condition - might be considered really vintage and
        >collectible in another couple of years for its 20th
        >anniversary.

        I agree.  Though there was just a model 55SX on eBay that was still in the
        original shipping box, never used.  It had been in a computer dealer's
        storage for about 15 years.  That I was willing to go as high as $150
        before I gave up.  At $150 I thought it was way too high, however I'm
        looking for vintage PS/2's for a specific reason, but some collectors are
        just plain nuts. ;-) 

        Mark


        --

        From the eComStation Desktop of: Mark Dodel

        Warpstock 2005, Hershey, Pennsylvania, October 6 - 9, 2005  http://www.warpstock.org
        Warpstock Europe 2005, Dresden, Germany, Nov. 18-20 http://www.warpstock.net

        For a choice in the future of personal computing, Join VOICE - http://www.os2voice.org

          "The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself.   That in it's essence, is Fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group or by any controlling private power." Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Message proposing the Monopoly Investigation, 1938

      • Evan
        ... probably share some of their experiences/knowledge. Very interesting! Speak up, people! ... It was either Ctrl-Alt-Del, or shorting two contacts with a
        Message 3 of 19 , Aug 2 6:10 AM
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          >>> There are others on this list who worked directly for him and can probably share some of their experiences/knowledge.
           
          Very interesting!  Speak up, people!
           
          Here's a story I wrote for the Feb. 2, 2004 issue of Computer Collector:
           
          -----------------------------------------------
           
          It was either Ctrl-Alt-Del, or shorting two contacts with a screwdriver.

          David Bradley chose the former method for doing a warm reboot of IBM's original PC, and he did a lot more.

          "Early in '81, we were dealing with prototype software, prototype hardware, and as you would attempt to try things out it would hang up. We needed a faster way than turning the power off, waiting a moment, turning it back on. I stuffed a specific value in a location in memory and jumped to the reset vector," he explained, in an interview with Computer Collector today.

          But why'd he pick those three keys? "It's not as if somebody said 'we need you to pick out three keys to reboot the machine'," he explained. "Two of them had to be shift keys," since most of the IBM PC's memory was already spoken for. "I'm already tracking whether these four shift keys are up or down. So I picked Ctrl and Alt as the two newest, least used keys. Ctrl-Alt-Delete has a better mnemonic feel than Ctrl-Alt-Plus," he said.

          "The systems we had in the lab, it was easy to reset them, you just struck a screwdriver across a couple of contacts."

          For Bradley, now 55, it was hardly the highlight of his career. He graduated in 1971 from the University of Dayton (Ohio), the same year as Intel released the 4004 chip, and received his Ph.D. from Purdue in 1975, the year of MITS' Altair kit. "The first computer I ever used would have been a [IBM] 360," he said. He joined IBM in June 1975 and worked on the System/23 Datamaster in 1978 - IBM's first computer with a non-IBM processor. For the IBM PC, he wrote the entire BIOS. "I wrote virtually all of the code that's there with the exception of the cassette and the power-on self-test," he said.

          Had they known it'd last 20 years, some things would have been done differently. For example, "The interrupts on what's now called the ISA bus are positive-edge triggered and we should have made them negative. The consequence of that decision is it was impossible to share interrupts," he said.

          Bradley said he doesn't maintain a personal collection, but has owned various significant machines over the years. "For a while I had one of the original lab-built IBM PCs, but unfortunately in a move, I have no idea what happened to it. I may still have an old Timex Sinclair 1000 sitting around somewhere.


          From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Applegate
          Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 8:59 AM
          To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] what is considered a vintage apple computer?

          The PC was designed in Boca Raton, not Armonk.
           
          BTW, one of the main architects of the original PC was a guy named Lew Eggebrecht (hope I got the
          spelling right).  He floated around southern NJ at high-tech companies after leaving IBM.  He was at
          Franklin Computer from around 83 to 84, then DGM&S in the late 80s.  The last I heard, he was out
          west doing something.
           
          Lew personally designed MUCH of the original PC.  There are others on this list who worked
          directly for him and can probably share some of their experiences/knowledge.
           
          Bob
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Evan
          Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 8:53 AM
          Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] what is considered a vintage apple computer?

          I'm confused.  Do mean "THE original" as in IBM PC, serial number 1, or do you mean a machine like the 5100, which was IBM's first microcomputer long before the "PC" series?
           
          If it's the former, serial number 1, then it should reside in a museum -- like ours, since we'll be the nearest computer museum to IBM headquarters in Armonk, NY.


          From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of madodel@...
          Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 7:09 AM
          To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] what is considered a vintage apple computer?

          In, on 08/02/05 at 12:17 AM,
             "Evan" <evan947@...> said:



          >>>>  Can you imagine the value of the very first IBM PC?
          >
          >We certainly can, and it's not high as you might think.  The original IBM
          >PC - aka the Model 5150 - is worth about $50-$150 depending on condition,
          >according to Mike Nadeau's book "Collectible Microcomputers".  The book
          >is a year or two old, but the price is fairly steady.
          >

          My point was not that it was an original IBM PC, but it was THE original
          IBM PC. The very first one.  That puppy lead to the most successful
          computer introduction ever.  IBM had predicted a total life sales of about
          275,000 over 5 years for the PC.  They had about 500,000 sold before it
          was even officially announced.  And now IBM is out of the PC business.


          >I believe most people in the PS/2 universe, and elsewhere in x86-land,
          >still consider themselves "users" more than "collectors".
          >
          >An original PS/2 - which I hope you're not paying any more than about $50
          >for in great condition - might be considered really vintage and
          >collectible in another couple of years for its 20th
          >anniversary.

          I agree.  Though there was just a model 55SX on eBay that was still in the
          original shipping box, never used.  It had been in a computer dealer's
          storage for about 15 years.  That I was willing to go as high as $150
          before I gave up.  At $150 I thought it was way too high, however I'm
          looking for vintage PS/2's for a specific reason, but some collectors are
          just plain nuts. ;-) 

          Mark


          --

          From the eComStation Desktop of: Mark Dodel

          Warpstock 2005, Hershey, Pennsylvania, October 6 - 9, 2005  http://www.warpstock.org
          Warpstock Europe 2005, Dresden, Germany, Nov. 18-20 http://www.warpstock.net

          For a choice in the future of personal computing, Join VOICE - http://www.os2voice.org

            "The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself.   That in it's essence, is Fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group or by any controlling private power." Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Message proposing the Monopoly Investigation, 1938

        • madodel@ptdprolog.net
          In, on 08/02/05 at 08:53 AM, ... According to David Both, it was the very first IBM PC off the assembly line. They gave it to him so he could figure out what
          Message 4 of 19 , Aug 2 6:11 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            In, on 08/02/05 at 08:53 AM,
            "Evan" <evan947@...> said:



            >I'm confused. Do mean "THE original" as in IBM PC, serial number 1, or
            >do you mean a machine like the 5100, which was IBM's first microcomputer
            >long before the "PC" series?
            >
            >If it's the former, serial number 1, then it should reside in a museum --
            >like ours, since we'll be the nearest computer museum to IBM headquarters
            >in Armonk, NY.

            According to David Both, it was the very first IBM PC off the assembly
            line. They gave it to him so he could figure out what documentation it
            needed.

            Mark

            --

            From the eComStation Desktop of: Mark Dodel

            Warpstock 2005, Hershey, Pennsylvania, October 6 - 9, 2005 http://www.warpstock.org
            Warpstock Europe 2005, Dresden, Germany, Nov. 18-20 http://www.warpstock.net

            For a choice in the future of personal computing, Join VOICE - http://www.os2voice.org

            "The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That in it's essence, is Fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group or by any controlling private power." Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Message proposing the Monopoly Investigation, 1938
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