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Re: New Member

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  • damelect
    It all may be very easy to you D.K. There is never a decrease in the flow below the numbers stated. 1-3 days a year it is shut down completely. During the
    Message 1 of 26 , Feb 29, 2008
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      It all may be very easy to you D.K. There is never a decrease in the
      flow below the numbers stated. 1-3 days a year it is shut down
      completely. During the summer months the dam may be opened as much as
      10". There is power to this site already so it could be hooked into
      the grid easily. The main problem is that I need to work within the
      design of the existing dam. A waterwheel or turbines could be fit to
      the existing gate.

      --- In microhydro@yahoogroups.com, "deepakmandla" <deepakmandla@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > --- In microhydro@yahoogroups.com, "damelect" <ken@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Good Morning Everyone,
      > >
      > > Like most. I have joined this group due to a pending hydro
      project.
      > I
      > > will try to keep my questions to a minimum and wait for the
      > responses
      > > prior to moving to the next problem of the day.
      > >
      > > I would like to start with the first steps to see that my
      > > calculations are valid. Please understand the following.
      > >
      > > The water flow that we are talking about does not come from the
      top
      > > of a dam. It comes from the bottom of a gate. The gate is raised
      or
      > > lowered according to the amount of water needed down stream.
      After
      > > monitoring the gate position for over a year I find that there is
      > > never less than a 6" opening at the bottom. This leaves an
      opening
      > > that is 6" wide by 16' long.
      > >
      > > Here's the measurements I have taken. (Please remember that these
      > > were aquired while hanging off this dam)
      > >
      > > Using a 1/2" hose(flexible) it took 20 sec to fill a 2 gal
      > container.
      > > I can barely hold the hose in the water flow due to the current
      and
      > > the water spraying in my face.In order to have somewhere to set
      the
      > > container it was about 18" above the waterflow.
      > >
      > > In the same hose I get a 9.5' water column.
      > >
      > > I would say that in neither case was the hose in line with the
      > water
      > > flow.
      > >
      > > Using these figures (such as they are) I a flow rate of
      > 30.8cuft/sec.
      > >
      > > Is this calc correct and does anyone have a better way of
      measuring
      > > this flow that is more reliable. If this was meant for only home
      > use
      > > it would not be as important but I am going to be looking to the
      > DOE
      > > for a grant to develop these sites
      > >
      > > Ken
      >
      =====================================================================
      > Re:
      > Thanks.U can use v- Notch to measure The Q.The Head in U/S side of
      > any Sluice counts.u can have a Powerhouse in the sides and the tail
      > Race can have a Opening in the parent channel.
      > The Sluice Type Micro hydro projects have certain limitations viz-
      > 1.How many days during the year it is discharging Q.Max and Mini.
      > 2.what is the Head Max and Min.what is the LSL.
      > 3.The Power lines can go along the canal without affecting the
      Forest
      > areas.hence what is the distance of a D.C - Distribution Centre to
      > unload the produced Electricity.it is called Evacuation.
      > u can discuss.There r many good Power houses provided there is
      > contineous and ample of head and sufficient Q in The dam.
      > 4.what is the purpose of The dam also helps deciding about Micro
      > Hydro Powers.
      > its all is very easy.with regards
      > D K Mishra-India
      > >
      >
    • nando
      The process to determine the available power is to measure the head and the distance to the lower part of the gate, this will give you the volume available
      Message 2 of 26 , Mar 1, 2008
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        The process to determine the available power is to measure the head and the distance to the lower part of the gate, this will give you the volume available versus the gate opening height.

        To harvest the maximum power a Banki line of turbines covering the 16 feet wide gate width.

        The Banki design can be done in sections with a common shaft coupling to drive a generator.

        If the dam has debris that need to be eliminated, the process depends on the way the system is constructed to do the filtering .

        Ideally is to be able to use the total head of the dam.

        Debris filtering can be done by a filtering cage inside the dam couple to the area where the gate is and the scheme needs to be analyzed for best procedure ( I do not know anything about your dam and is construction or gate specifications).

        Nando

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: damelect
        To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 7:44 PM
        Subject: [microhydro] Re: New Member


        It all may be very easy to you D.K. There is never a decrease in the
        flow below the numbers stated. 1-3 days a year it is shut down
        completely. During the summer months the dam may be opened as much as
        10". There is power to this site already so it could be hooked into
        the grid easily. The main problem is that I need to work within the
        design of the existing dam. A waterwheel or turbines could be fit to
        the existing gate.

        --- In microhydro@yahoogroups.com, "deepakmandla" <deepakmandla@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > --- In microhydro@yahoogroups.com, "damelect" <ken@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Good Morning Everyone,
        > >
        > > Like most. I have joined this group due to a pending hydro
        project.
        > I
        > > will try to keep my questions to a minimum and wait for the
        > responses
        > > prior to moving to the next problem of the day.
        > >
        > > I would like to start with the first steps to see that my
        > > calculations are valid. Please understand the following.
        > >
        > > The water flow that we are talking about does not come from the
        top
        > > of a dam. It comes from the bottom of a gate. The gate is raised
        or
        > > lowered according to the amount of water needed down stream.
        After
        > > monitoring the gate position for over a year I find that there is
        > > never less than a 6" opening at the bottom. This leaves an
        opening
        > > that is 6" wide by 16' long.
        > >
        > > Here's the measurements I have taken. (Please remember that these
        > > were aquired while hanging off this dam)
        > >
        > > Using a 1/2" hose(flexible) it took 20 sec to fill a 2 gal
        > container.
        > > I can barely hold the hose in the water flow due to the current
        and
        > > the water spraying in my face.In order to have somewhere to set
        the
        > > container it was about 18" above the waterflow.
        > >
        > > In the same hose I get a 9.5' water column.
        > >
        > > I would say that in neither case was the hose in line with the
        > water
        > > flow.
        > >
        > > Using these figures (such as they are) I a flow rate of
        > 30.8cuft/sec.
        > >
        > > Is this calc correct and does anyone have a better way of
        measuring
        > > this flow that is more reliable. If this was meant for only home
        > use
        > > it would not be as important but I am going to be looking to the
        > DOE
        > > for a grant to develop these sites
        > >
        > > Ken
        >
        =====================================================================
        > Re:
        > Thanks.U can use v- Notch to measure The Q.The Head in U/S side of
        > any Sluice counts.u can have a Powerhouse in the sides and the tail
        > Race can have a Opening in the parent channel.
        > The Sluice Type Micro hydro projects have certain limitations viz-
        > 1.How many days during the year it is discharging Q.Max and Mini.
        > 2.what is the Head Max and Min.what is the LSL.
        > 3.The Power lines can go along the canal without affecting the
        Forest
        > areas.hence what is the distance of a D.C - Distribution Centre to
        > unload the produced Electricity.it is called Evacuation.
        > u can discuss.There r many good Power houses provided there is
        > contineous and ample of head and sufficient Q in The dam.
        > 4.what is the purpose of The dam also helps deciding about Micro
        > Hydro Powers.
        > its all is very easy.with regards
        > D K Mishra-India
        > >
        >





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Otto Rike
        Hello Gruop, We are up in the hills near in NW California and have a big stream that runs all the time on the edge of the property. I have not measured it
        Message 3 of 26 , Mar 1, 2008
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          Hello Gruop,

          We are up in the hills near in NW
          California and have a big stream that runs all the time on the edge of the property.
          I have not measured it --don't actually know how. But ther is always a good foot of water and it is a long jump across.

          I think we can get about 85 ft. of fall with about 250-300 ft. of pipe. Is it possible to use plastic pipe?
          What kind of turbine would be good.
          Steve
          deepakmandla <deepakmandla@...> wrote:
          --- In microhydro@yahoogroups.com, "damelect" <ken@...> wrote:
          >
          > Good Morning Everyone,
          >
          > Like most. I have joined this group due to a pending hydro project.
          I
          > will try to keep my questions to a minimum and wait for the
          responses
          > prior to moving to the next problem of the day.
          >
          > I would like to start with the first steps to see that my
          > calculations are valid. Please understand the following.
          >
          > The water flow that we are talking about does not come from the top
          > of a dam. It comes from the bottom of a gate. The gate is raised or
          > lowered according to the amount of water needed down stream. After
          > monitoring the gate position for over a year I find that there is
          > never less than a 6" opening at the bottom. This leaves an opening
          > that is 6" wide by 16' long.
          >
          > Here's the measurements I have taken. (Please remember that these
          > were aquired while hanging off this dam)
          >
          > Using a 1/2" hose(flexible) it took 20 sec to fill a 2 gal
          container.
          > I can barely hold the hose in the water flow due to the current and
          > the water spraying in my face.In order to have somewhere to set the
          > container it was about 18" above the waterflow.
          >
          > In the same hose I get a 9.5' water column.
          >
          > I would say that in neither case was the hose in line with the
          water
          > flow.
          >
          > Using these figures (such as they are) I a flow rate of
          30.8cuft/sec.
          >
          > Is this calc correct and does anyone have a better way of measuring
          > this flow that is more reliable. If this was meant for only home
          use
          > it would not be as important but I am going to be looking to the
          DOE
          > for a grant to develop these sites
          >
          > Ken
          =====================================================================
          Re:
          Thanks.U can use v- Notch to measure The Q.The Head in U/S side of
          any Sluice counts.u can have a Powerhouse in the sides and the tail
          Race can have a Opening in the parent channel.
          The Sluice Type Micro hydro projects have certain limitations viz-
          1.How many days during the year it is discharging Q.Max and Mini.
          2.what is the Head Max and Min.what is the LSL.
          3.The Power lines can go along the canal without affecting the Forest
          areas.hence what is the distance of a D.C - Distribution Centre to
          unload the produced Electricity.it is called Evacuation.
          u can discuss.There r many good Power houses provided there is
          contineous and ample of head and sufficient Q in The dam.
          4.what is the purpose of The dam also helps deciding about Micro
          Hydro Powers.
          its all is very easy.with regards
          D K Mishra-India
          >






          ---------------------------------
          Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ron Demeester
          Don t worry about the check - I m not that broke yet. Fr. damelect wrote: It all may be very easy to you D.K. There is
          Message 4 of 26 , Mar 1, 2008
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            Don't worry about the check - I'm not that broke yet. Fr.

            damelect <ken@...> wrote: It all may be very easy to you D.K. There is never a decrease in the
            flow below the numbers stated. 1-3 days a year it is shut down
            completely. During the summer months the dam may be opened as much as
            10". There is power to this site already so it could be hooked into
            the grid easily. The main problem is that I need to work within the
            design of the existing dam. A waterwheel or turbines could be fit to
            the existing gate.

            --- In microhydro@yahoogroups.com, "deepakmandla" <deepakmandla@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > --- In microhydro@yahoogroups.com, "damelect" <ken@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Good Morning Everyone,
            > >
            > > Like most. I have joined this group due to a pending hydro
            project.
            > I
            > > will try to keep my questions to a minimum and wait for the
            > responses
            > > prior to moving to the next problem of the day.
            > >
            > > I would like to start with the first steps to see that my
            > > calculations are valid. Please understand the following.
            > >
            > > The water flow that we are talking about does not come from the
            top
            > > of a dam. It comes from the bottom of a gate. The gate is raised
            or
            > > lowered according to the amount of water needed down stream.
            After
            > > monitoring the gate position for over a year I find that there is
            > > never less than a 6" opening at the bottom. This leaves an
            opening
            > > that is 6" wide by 16' long.
            > >
            > > Here's the measurements I have taken. (Please remember that these
            > > were aquired while hanging off this dam)
            > >
            > > Using a 1/2" hose(flexible) it took 20 sec to fill a 2 gal
            > container.
            > > I can barely hold the hose in the water flow due to the current
            and
            > > the water spraying in my face.In order to have somewhere to set
            the
            > > container it was about 18" above the waterflow.
            > >
            > > In the same hose I get a 9.5' water column.
            > >
            > > I would say that in neither case was the hose in line with the
            > water
            > > flow.
            > >
            > > Using these figures (such as they are) I a flow rate of
            > 30.8cuft/sec.
            > >
            > > Is this calc correct and does anyone have a better way of
            measuring
            > > this flow that is more reliable. If this was meant for only home
            > use
            > > it would not be as important but I am going to be looking to the
            > DOE
            > > for a grant to develop these sites
            > >
            > > Ken
            >
            =====================================================================
            > Re:
            > Thanks.U can use v- Notch to measure The Q.The Head in U/S side of
            > any Sluice counts.u can have a Powerhouse in the sides and the tail
            > Race can have a Opening in the parent channel.
            > The Sluice Type Micro hydro projects have certain limitations viz-
            > 1.How many days during the year it is discharging Q.Max and Mini.
            > 2.what is the Head Max and Min.what is the LSL.
            > 3.The Power lines can go along the canal without affecting the
            Forest
            > areas.hence what is the distance of a D.C - Distribution Centre to
            > unload the produced Electricity.it is called Evacuation.
            > u can discuss.There r many good Power houses provided there is
            > contineous and ample of head and sufficient Q in The dam.
            > 4.what is the purpose of The dam also helps deciding about Micro
            > Hydro Powers.
            > its all is very easy.with regards
            > D K Mishra-India
            > >
            >






            ---------------------------------
            Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • nando
            Steve: What you are saying for the site is NOT good if you want to develop a good hydro system. Measure the water volume accurately as well the head and the
            Message 5 of 26 , Mar 1, 2008
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              Steve:

              What you are saying for the site is NOT good if you want to develop a good hydro system.

              Measure the water volume accurately as well the head and the length of the pipe needed.

              then the proper turbine can be defined.

              Plastic pipe can be used, turbine depends on the volume.

              Nando

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Otto Rike
              To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 3:33 PM
              Subject: Re: [microhydro] Choice of Turbines.



              Hello Gruop,

              We are up in the hills near in NW
              California and have a big stream that runs all the time on the edge of the property.
              I have not measured it --don't actually know how. But ther is always a good foot of water and it is a long jump across.

              I think we can get about 85 ft. of fall with about 250-300 ft. of pipe. Is it possible to use plastic pipe?
              What kind of turbine would be good.
              Steve
              deepakmandla <deepakmandla@...> wrote:
              --- In microhydro@yahoogroups.com, "damelect" <ken@...> wrote:
              >
              > Good Morning Everyone,
              >
              > Like most. I have joined this group due to a pending hydro project.
              I
              > will try to keep my questions to a minimum and wait for the
              responses
              > prior to moving to the next problem of the day.
              >
              > I would like to start with the first steps to see that my
              > calculations are valid. Please understand the following.
              >
              > The water flow that we are talking about does not come from the top
              > of a dam. It comes from the bottom of a gate. The gate is raised or
              > lowered according to the amount of water needed down stream. After
              > monitoring the gate position for over a year I find that there is
              > never less than a 6" opening at the bottom. This leaves an opening
              > that is 6" wide by 16' long.
              >
              > Here's the measurements I have taken. (Please remember that these
              > were aquired while hanging off this dam)
              >
              > Using a 1/2" hose(flexible) it took 20 sec to fill a 2 gal
              container.
              > I can barely hold the hose in the water flow due to the current and
              > the water spraying in my face.In order to have somewhere to set the
              > container it was about 18" above the waterflow.
              >
              > In the same hose I get a 9.5' water column.
              >
              > I would say that in neither case was the hose in line with the
              water
              > flow.
              >
              > Using these figures (such as they are) I a flow rate of
              30.8cuft/sec.
              >
              > Is this calc correct and does anyone have a better way of measuring
              > this flow that is more reliable. If this was meant for only home
              use
              > it would not be as important but I am going to be looking to the
              DOE
              > for a grant to develop these sites
              >
              > Ken
              =====================================================================
              Re:
              Thanks.U can use v- Notch to measure The Q.The Head in U/S side of
              any Sluice counts.u can have a Powerhouse in the sides and the tail
              Race can have a Opening in the parent channel.
              The Sluice Type Micro hydro projects have certain limitations viz-
              1.How many days during the year it is discharging Q.Max and Mini.
              2.what is the Head Max and Min.what is the LSL.
              3.The Power lines can go along the canal without affecting the Forest
              areas.hence what is the distance of a D.C - Distribution Centre to
              unload the produced Electricity.it is called Evacuation.
              u can discuss.There r many good Power houses provided there is
              contineous and ample of head and sufficient Q in The dam.
              4.what is the purpose of The dam also helps deciding about Micro
              Hydro Powers.
              its all is very easy.with regards
              D K Mishra-India
              >

              ---------------------------------
              Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jac
              Hi Otto, I think a Pelton or a Turgo turbine would do well here. How much power you can develop will depend on how much flow is available. Here are a couple of
              Message 6 of 26 , Mar 2, 2008
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                Hi Otto, I think a Pelton or a Turgo turbine would do well here. How much power you can develop will depend on how much flow is available. Here are a couple of scenarios with 85 ft of static head and 300 ft of pipe length:

                1. Using a Pelton turbine with (1) 1" nozzle you will be able to generate 1200 watts at the wheel with a 4 in pipe at a flow rate of 175 gpm.
                2. Using a Pelton turbine with (2) 1" nozzles you will be able to generate 2500 watts at the wheel with a 6 in pipe at a flow rate of 355 gpm.

                Plastic pipe is fine.

                Find out how to do your own calculations here:
                http://www.lightmypump.com/micro-hydro.htm

                and do them youself using this applet:
                http://www.lightmypump.com/micro/micro.html

                Cheers,

                Jacques
                www.lightmypump.com

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Otto Rike
                To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 4:33 PM
                Subject: Re: [microhydro] Choice of Turbines.



                Hello Gruop,

                We are up in the hills near in NW
                California and have a big stream that runs all the time on the edge of the property.
                I have not measured it --don't actually know how. But ther is always a good foot of water and it is a long jump across.

                I think we can get about 85 ft. of fall with about 250-300 ft. of pipe. Is it possible to use plastic pipe?
                What kind of turbine would be good.
                Steve
                deepakmandla <deepakmandla@...> wrote:
                --- In microhydro@yahoogroups.com, "damelect" <ken@...> wrote:
                >
                > Good Morning Everyone,
                >
                > Like most. I have joined this group due to a pending hydro project.
                I
                > will try to keep my questions to a minimum and wait for the
                responses
                > prior to moving to the next problem of the day.
                >
                > I would like to start with the first steps to see that my
                > calculations are valid. Please understand the following.
                >
                > The water flow that we are talking about does not come from the top
                > of a dam. It comes from the bottom of a gate. The gate is raised or
                > lowered according to the amount of water needed down stream. After
                > monitoring the gate position for over a year I find that there is
                > never less than a 6" opening at the bottom. This leaves an opening
                > that is 6" wide by 16' long.
                >
                > Here's the measurements I have taken. (Please remember that these
                > were aquired while hanging off this dam)
                >
                > Using a 1/2" hose(flexible) it took 20 sec to fill a 2 gal
                container.
                > I can barely hold the hose in the water flow due to the current and
                > the water spraying in my face.In order to have somewhere to set the
                > container it was about 18" above the waterflow.
                >
                > In the same hose I get a 9.5' water column.
                >
                > I would say that in neither case was the hose in line with the
                water
                > flow.
                >
                > Using these figures (such as they are) I a flow rate of
                30.8cuft/sec.
                >
                > Is this calc correct and does anyone have a better way of measuring
                > this flow that is more reliable. If this was meant for only home
                use
                > it would not be as important but I am going to be looking to the
                DOE
                > for a grant to develop these sites
                >
                > Ken
                =====================================================================
                Re:
                Thanks.U can use v- Notch to measure The Q.The Head in U/S side of
                any Sluice counts.u can have a Powerhouse in the sides and the tail
                Race can have a Opening in the parent channel.
                The Sluice Type Micro hydro projects have certain limitations viz-
                1.How many days during the year it is discharging Q.Max and Mini.
                2.what is the Head Max and Min.what is the LSL.
                3.The Power lines can go along the canal without affecting the Forest
                areas.hence what is the distance of a D.C - Distribution Centre to
                unload the produced Electricity.it is called Evacuation.
                u can discuss.There r many good Power houses provided there is
                contineous and ample of head and sufficient Q in The dam.
                4.what is the purpose of The dam also helps deciding about Micro
                Hydro Powers.
                its all is very easy.with regards
                D K Mishra-India
                >

                ---------------------------------
                Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • ken@biomedicalrecovery.com
                Hello Tom, This is the dam that I was talking about. My thought is to go across the whole dam with a water wheel that has 8 paddles on it. If it reduced flow
                Message 7 of 26 , Mar 9, 2008
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                  Hello Tom,

                  This is the dam that I was talking about. My thought is to go across the whole dam with a water wheel that has 8" paddles on it. If it reduced flow the dam could be opened more in order to allow more flow. You seem to be quite knowlegable so I thought I would let you see what I am working with and if you had any suggestions. The easiest thing is to not try to change the design of the dam. My thought is,What do you think that if you look at the dam the whole assembly could be hung off the existing mechanism and would raise and lower with the dam. What do you think?

                  Ken
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Tom Spicher
                  To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 9:29 AM
                  Subject: Re: [microhydro] New Member


                  Ken

                  Looking at the USBR water measurement manual for submerged rectangular weirs the formula Q=0.61X8Xsq.root of g (32.2) X head. This would give you about 87 cfs. I assumed 10 feet of head because there is a drawdown near the gate due to velocity transfer. Your hose trys to measure the velocity as well but loses much due to friction and inaccurate positioning. The intake design will require a height equal to the gate height or water will be lost over the top. If a cross-flow or axial flow unit is used, there will also have to be an overflow passage to handle the flow that the turbine will not handle. Side seals should seal to the walls of the structure and not to the gate or gate frame. Also identify the flood time elevation to assure no overtopping of the weir or gate structure. DOE may also have the flow figures in their state-by-state analysis of the various waterways. Check www.hydropower.inel.gov/resourceassessment/index.shtml point 6 has the state listings (near bottom o page).

                  Tom Spicher
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: damelect
                  To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 4:12 AM
                  Subject: [microhydro] New Member

                  Good Morning Everyone,

                  Like most. I have joined this group due to a pending hydro project. I
                  will try to keep my questions to a minimum and wait for the responses
                  prior to moving to the next problem of the day.

                  I would like to start with the first steps to see that my
                  calculations are valid. Please understand the following.

                  The water flow that we are talking about does not come from the top
                  of a dam. It comes from the bottom of a gate. The gate is raised or
                  lowered according to the amount of water needed down stream. After
                  monitoring the gate position for over a year I find that there is
                  never less than a 6" opening at the bottom. This leaves an opening
                  that is 6" wide by 16' long.

                  Here's the measurements I have taken. (Please remember that these
                  were aquired while hanging off this dam)

                  Using a 1/2" hose(flexible) it took 20 sec to fill a 2 gal container.
                  I can barely hold the hose in the water flow due to the current and
                  the water spraying in my face.In order to have somewhere to set the
                  container it was about 18" above the waterflow.

                  In the same hose I get a 9.5' water column.

                  I would say that in neither case was the hose in line with the water
                  flow.

                  Using these figures (such as they are) I a flow rate of 30.8cuft/sec.

                  Is this calc correct and does anyone have a better way of measuring
                  this flow that is more reliable. If this was meant for only home use
                  it would not be as important but I am going to be looking to the DOE
                  for a grant to develop these sites

                  Ken

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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                • ken@biomedicalrecovery.com
                  Nando, Attached is a pic of the dam that I am referring to. Tom came up with a figure of approx 87cfs off this dam. Do you think that a banki all the way
                  Message 8 of 26 , Mar 9, 2008
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                  • 0 Attachment
                    Nando,

                    Attached is a pic of the dam that I am referring to. Tom came up with a figure of approx 87cfs off this dam. Do you think that a banki all the way across would work. If I were to use Blades that were in the water at least 6 " what is the possible power potential according to your calcs. It is not that I am lazy, I just want to find out if someone else comes up with the same # I do.

                    Ken
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: nando
                    To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:05 AM
                    Subject: Re: [microhydro] New Member


                    Ken:

                    I believe you need better measurements to attain an accurate volume and head.

                    Long ( sections) of bankis could cover the whole 16 feet length to harvest most of the water ( a bypass may be needed ) , this depending on what you want to attain.

                    ( minimum to maximum water release and how much energy to capture).

                    Nando

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: damelect
                    To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 6:12 AM
                    Subject: [microhydro] New Member

                    Good Morning Everyone,

                    Like most. I have joined this group due to a pending hydro project. I
                    will try to keep my questions to a minimum and wait for the responses
                    prior to moving to the next problem of the day.

                    I would like to start with the first steps to see that my
                    calculations are valid. Please understand the following.

                    The water flow that we are talking about does not come from the top
                    of a dam. It comes from the bottom of a gate. The gate is raised or
                    lowered according to the amount of water needed down stream. After
                    monitoring the gate position for over a year I find that there is
                    never less than a 6" opening at the bottom. This leaves an opening
                    that is 6" wide by 16' long.

                    Here's the measurements I have taken. (Please remember that these
                    were aquired while hanging off this dam)

                    Using a 1/2" hose(flexible) it took 20 sec to fill a 2 gal container.
                    I can barely hold the hose in the water flow due to the current and
                    the water spraying in my face.In order to have somewhere to set the
                    container it was about 18" above the waterflow.

                    In the same hose I get a 9.5' water column.

                    I would say that in neither case was the hose in line with the water
                    flow.

                    Using these figures (such as they are) I a flow rate of 30.8cuft/sec.

                    Is this calc correct and does anyone have a better way of measuring
                    this flow that is more reliable. If this was meant for only home use
                    it would not be as important but I am going to be looking to the DOE
                    for a grant to develop these sites

                    Ken

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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                    Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Tom Spicher
                    Ken You would have to seal the discharge completely in order to take advantage of the head. The sealed area could then be directed towards one or a series of
                    Message 9 of 26 , Mar 10, 2008
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                    • 0 Attachment
                      Ken

                      You would have to seal the discharge completely in order to take advantage of the head. The sealed area could then be directed towards one or a series of parallel Banki's. There would also have to be an overflow passage to accommodate the excess water not usable by the turbines during the spring flow. That overflow should be large enough to handle all of the maximum flow in case the turbines are inoperable. Since this is downstream of the dam, it must be a side diversion to avoid overtopping the dam. A paddle wheel would be of minimal value and would not have to be connected with the dam at all, just a channel would be needed and it could only convert the velocity component of head. My security package does not allow me to pick up photos from these exchanges on the group mail. The large volume cross-flow units can get a bit bulky and difficult to regulate. Possibly, one on each side of the outlet with the overflow down the center over a stoplog type of installation that could be lowered during the anticipated flood time.


                      Tom
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: ken@...
                      To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 3:51 PM
                      Subject: Re: [microhydro] New Member


                      Hello Tom,

                      This is the dam that I was talking about. My thought is to go across the whole dam with a water wheel that has 8" paddles on it. If it reduced flow the dam could be opened more in order to allow more flow. You seem to be quite knowlegable so I thought I would let you see what I am working with and if you had any suggestions. The easiest thing is to not try to change the design of the dam. My thought is,What do you think that if you look at the dam the whole assembly could be hung off the existing mechanism and would raise and lower with the dam. What do you think?

                      Ken
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Tom Spicher
                      To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 9:29 AM
                      Subject: Re: [microhydro] New Member

                      Ken

                      Looking at the USBR water measurement manual for submerged rectangular weirs the formula Q=0.61X8Xsq.root of g (32.2) X head. This would give you about 87 cfs. I assumed 10 feet of head because there is a drawdown near the gate due to velocity transfer. Your hose trys to measure the velocity as well but loses much due to friction and inaccurate positioning. The intake design will require a height equal to the gate height or water will be lost over the top. If a cross-flow or axial flow unit is used, there will also have to be an overflow passage to handle the flow that the turbine will not handle. Side seals should seal to the walls of the structure and not to the gate or gate frame. Also identify the flood time elevation to assure no overtopping of the weir or gate structure. DOE may also have the flow figures in their state-by-state analysis of the various waterways. Check www.hydropower.inel.gov/resourceassessment/index.shtml point 6 has the state listings (near bottom o page).

                      Tom Spicher
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: damelect
                      To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 4:12 AM
                      Subject: [microhydro] New Member

                      Good Morning Everyone,

                      Like most. I have joined this group due to a pending hydro project. I
                      will try to keep my questions to a minimum and wait for the responses
                      prior to moving to the next problem of the day.

                      I would like to start with the first steps to see that my
                      calculations are valid. Please understand the following.

                      The water flow that we are talking about does not come from the top
                      of a dam. It comes from the bottom of a gate. The gate is raised or
                      lowered according to the amount of water needed down stream. After
                      monitoring the gate position for over a year I find that there is
                      never less than a 6" opening at the bottom. This leaves an opening
                      that is 6" wide by 16' long.

                      Here's the measurements I have taken. (Please remember that these
                      were aquired while hanging off this dam)

                      Using a 1/2" hose(flexible) it took 20 sec to fill a 2 gal container.
                      I can barely hold the hose in the water flow due to the current and
                      the water spraying in my face.In order to have somewhere to set the
                      container it was about 18" above the waterflow.

                      In the same hose I get a 9.5' water column.

                      I would say that in neither case was the hose in line with the water
                      flow.

                      Using these figures (such as they are) I a flow rate of 30.8cuft/sec.

                      Is this calc correct and does anyone have a better way of measuring
                      this flow that is more reliable. If this was meant for only home use
                      it would not be as important but I am going to be looking to the DOE
                      for a grant to develop these sites

                      Ken

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      ----------------------------------------------------------

                      No virus found in this incoming message.
                      Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                      Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1301 - Release Date: 2/27/2008 8:35 AM

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Otto Rike
                      TO, Tom Spicher Tom, I was looking through the archives regarding turgos and found your statement that turgos should never be used. But many members of
                      Message 10 of 26 , Mar 15, 2008
                      View Source
                      • 0 Attachment
                        TO, Tom Spicher

                        Tom, I was looking through the archives regarding turgos and found your statement that turgos should never be used.
                        But many members of this group think they are great.
                        What should I think?


                        <hydroyes@...> wrote:
                        Ken

                        You would have to seal the discharge completely in order to take advantage of the head. The sealed area could then be directed towards one or a series of parallel Banki's. There would also have to be an overflow passage to accommodate the excess water not usable by the turbines during the spring flow. That overflow should be large enough to handle all of the maximum flow in case the turbines are inoperable. Since this is downstream of the dam, it must be a side diversion to avoid overtopping the dam. A paddle wheel would be of minimal value and would not have to be connected with the dam at all, just a channel would be needed and it could only convert the velocity component of head. My security package does not allow me to pick up photos from these exchanges on the group mail. The large volume cross-flow units can get a bit bulky and difficult to regulate. Possibly, one on each side of the outlet with the overflow down the center over a stoplog type of installation that
                        could be lowered during the anticipated flood time.

                        Tom
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: ken@...
                        To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 3:51 PM
                        Subject: Re: [microhydro] New Member

                        Hello Tom,

                        This is the dam that I was talking about. My thought is to go across the whole dam with a water wheel that has 8" paddles on it. If it reduced flow the dam could be opened more in order to allow more flow. You seem to be quite knowlegable so I thought I would let you see what I am working with and if you had any suggestions. The easiest thing is to not try to change the design of the dam. My thought is,What do you think that if you look at the dam the whole assembly could be hung off the existing mechanism and would raise and lower with the dam. What do you think?

                        Ken
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Tom Spicher
                        To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 9:29 AM
                        Subject: Re: [microhydro] New Member

                        Ken

                        Looking at the USBR water measurement manual for submerged rectangular weirs the formula Q=0.61X8Xsq.root of g (32.2) X head. This would give you about 87 cfs. I assumed 10 feet of head because there is a drawdown near the gate due to velocity transfer. Your hose trys to measure the velocity as well but loses much due to friction and inaccurate positioning. The intake design will require a height equal to the gate height or water will be lost over the top. If a cross-flow or axial flow unit is used, there will also have to be an overflow passage to handle the flow that the turbine will not handle. Side seals should seal to the walls of the structure and not to the gate or gate frame. Also identify the flood time elevation to assure no overtopping of the weir or gate structure. DOE may also have the flow figures in their state-by-state analysis of the various waterways. Check www.hydropower.inel.gov/resourceassessment/index.shtml point 6 has the state listings (near bottom o
                        page).

                        Tom Spicher
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: damelect
                        To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 4:12 AM
                        Subject: [microhydro] New Member

                        Good Morning Everyone,

                        Like most. I have joined this group due to a pending hydro project. I
                        will try to keep my questions to a minimum and wait for the responses
                        prior to moving to the next problem of the day.

                        I would like to start with the first steps to see that my
                        calculations are valid. Please understand the following.

                        The water flow that we are talking about does not come from the top
                        of a dam. It comes from the bottom of a gate. The gate is raised or
                        lowered according to the amount of water needed down stream. After
                        monitoring the gate position for over a year I find that there is
                        never less than a 6" opening at the bottom. This leaves an opening
                        that is 6" wide by 16' long.

                        Here's the measurements I have taken. (Please remember that these
                        were aquired while hanging off this dam)

                        Using a 1/2" hose(flexible) it took 20 sec to fill a 2 gal container.
                        I can barely hold the hose in the water flow due to the current and
                        the water spraying in my face.In order to have somewhere to set the
                        container it was about 18" above the waterflow.

                        In the same hose I get a 9.5' water column.

                        I would say that in neither case was the hose in line with the water
                        flow.

                        Using these figures (such as they are) I a flow rate of 30.8cuft/sec.

                        Is this calc correct and does anyone have a better way of measuring
                        this flow that is more reliable. If this was meant for only home use
                        it would not be as important but I am going to be looking to the DOE
                        for a grant to develop these sites

                        Ken

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        ----------------------------------------------------------

                        No virus found in this incoming message.
                        Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                        Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1301 - Release Date: 2/27/2008 8:35 AM

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                      • nando
                        Steve: Why don t you include the message where Tom says that the Turgos should never be used . This type of statement may have a post or pre indicated reason
                        Message 11 of 26 , Mar 17, 2008
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                        • 0 Attachment
                          Steve:

                          Why don't you include the message where Tom says that the " Turgos should never be used".

                          This type of statement may have a post or pre indicated reason and not a generalized statement.

                          Turgos have its place in the Hydro industry and have been used extensible for many decades with excellent and many times better solutions that other turbines.

                          Please do ask a question or questions but be clear and complete with the statement for all the readers to really understand what is going on without the need to do a lengthily search to really get the true and complete statement, or to avoid getting a miss-information that may be damaging to the analysis or what others are trying to build.

                          This group likes to know all the facts to avoid been miss-informed and asking a question for you alone, may not be proper for the whole group.

                          Nando


                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Otto Rike
                          To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 12:38 PM
                          Subject: Re: [microhydro] TURGO dicussion


                          TO, Tom Spicher

                          Tom, I was looking through the archives regarding turgos and found your statement that turgos should never be used.
                          But many members of this group think they are great.
                          What should I think?


                          <hydroyes@...> wrote:
                          Ken

                          You would have to seal the discharge completely in order to take advantage of the head. The sealed area could then be directed towards one or a series of parallel Banki's. There would also have to be an overflow passage to accommodate the excess water not usable by the turbines during the spring flow. That overflow should be large enough to handle all of the maximum flow in case the turbines are inoperable. Since this is downstream of the dam, it must be a side diversion to avoid overtopping the dam. A paddle wheel would be of minimal value and would not have to be connected with the dam at all, just a channel would be needed and it could only convert the velocity component of head. My security package does not allow me to pick up photos from these exchanges on the group mail. The large volume cross-flow units can get a bit bulky and difficult to regulate. Possibly, one on each side of the outlet with the overflow down the center over a stoplog type of installation that
                          could be lowered during the anticipated flood time.

                          Tom
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: ken@...
                          To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 3:51 PM
                          Subject: Re: [microhydro] New Member

                          Hello Tom,

                          This is the dam that I was talking about. My thought is to go across the whole dam with a water wheel that has 8" paddles on it. If it reduced flow the dam could be opened more in order to allow more flow. You seem to be quite knowlegable so I thought I would let you see what I am working with and if you had any suggestions. The easiest thing is to not try to change the design of the dam. My thought is,What do you think that if you look at the dam the whole assembly could be hung off the existing mechanism and would raise and lower with the dam. What do you think?

                          Ken
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Tom Spicher
                          To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 9:29 AM
                          Subject: Re: [microhydro] New Member

                          Ken

                          Looking at the USBR water measurement manual for submerged rectangular weirs the formula Q=0.61X8Xsq.root of g (32.2) X head. This would give you about 87 cfs. I assumed 10 feet of head because there is a drawdown near the gate due to velocity transfer. Your hose trys to measure the velocity as well but loses much due to friction and inaccurate positioning. The intake design will require a height equal to the gate height or water will be lost over the top. If a cross-flow or axial flow unit is used, there will also have to be an overflow passage to handle the flow that the turbine will not handle. Side seals should seal to the walls of the structure and not to the gate or gate frame. Also identify the flood time elevation to assure no overtopping of the weir or gate structure. DOE may also have the flow figures in their state-by-state analysis of the various waterways. Check www.hydropower.inel.gov/resourceassessment/index.shtml point 6 has the state listings (near bottom o
                          page).

                          Tom Spicher
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: damelect
                          To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 4:12 AM
                          Subject: [microhydro] New Member

                          Good Morning Everyone,

                          Like most. I have joined this group due to a pending hydro project. I
                          will try to keep my questions to a minimum and wait for the responses
                          prior to moving to the next problem of the day.

                          I would like to start with the first steps to see that my
                          calculations are valid. Please understand the following.

                          The water flow that we are talking about does not come from the top
                          of a dam. It comes from the bottom of a gate. The gate is raised or
                          lowered according to the amount of water needed down stream. After
                          monitoring the gate position for over a year I find that there is
                          never less than a 6" opening at the bottom. This leaves an opening
                          that is 6" wide by 16' long.

                          Here's the measurements I have taken. (Please remember that these
                          were aquired while hanging off this dam)

                          Using a 1/2" hose(flexible) it took 20 sec to fill a 2 gal container.
                          I can barely hold the hose in the water flow due to the current and
                          the water spraying in my face.In order to have somewhere to set the
                          container it was about 18" above the waterflow.

                          In the same hose I get a 9.5' water column.

                          I would say that in neither case was the hose in line with the water
                          flow.

                          Using these figures (such as they are) I a flow rate of 30.8cuft/sec.

                          Is this calc correct and does anyone have a better way of measuring
                          this flow that is more reliable. If this was meant for only home use
                          it would not be as important but I am going to be looking to the DOE
                          for a grant to develop these sites

                          Ken

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                          ----------------------------------------------------------

                          No virus found in this incoming message.
                          Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                          Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1301 - Release Date: 2/27/2008 8:35 AM

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Otto Rike
                          This considered reply to my question was sent to everyone s yahoo mail bulk for some reason. Jac wrote: Hi Otto, I think
                          Message 12 of 26 , Mar 18, 2008
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                            This considered reply to my question was sent to everyone's yahoo mail bulk for some reason.

                            Jac <jchaurette@...> wrote: Hi Otto, I think a Pelton or a Turgo turbine would do well here. How much power you can develop will depend on how much flow is available. Here are a couple of scenarios with 85 ft of static head and 300 ft of pipe length:

                            1. Using a Pelton turbine with (1) 1" nozzle you will be able to generate 1200 watts at the wheel with a 4 in pipe at a flow rate of 175 gpm.
                            2. Using a Pelton turbine with (2) 1" nozzles you will be able to generate 2500 watts at the wheel with a 6 in pipe at a flow rate of 355 gpm.

                            Plastic pipe is fine.

                            Find out how to do your own calculations here:
                            http://www.lightmypump.com/micro-hydro.htm

                            and do them youself using this applet:
                            http://www.lightmypump.com/micro/micro.html

                            Cheers,

                            Jacques
                            www.lightmypump.com

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Otto Rike
                            To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 4:33 PM
                            Subject: Re: [microhydro] Choice of Turbines.

                            Hello Gruop,

                            We are up in the hills near in NW
                            California and have a big stream that runs all the time on the edge of the property.
                            I have not measured it --don't actually know how. But ther is always a good foot of water and it is a long jump across.

                            I think we can get about 85 ft. of fall with about 250-300 ft. of pipe. Is it possible to use plastic pipe?
                            What kind of turbine would be good.
                            Steve
                            deepakmandla <deepakmandla@...> wrote:
                            --- In microhydro@yahoogroups.com, "damelect" <ken@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Good Morning Everyone,
                            >
                            > Like most. I have joined this group due to a pending hydro project.
                            I
                            > will try to keep my questions to a minimum and wait for the
                            responses
                            > prior to moving to the next problem of the day.
                            >
                            > I would like to start with the first steps to see that my
                            > calculations are valid. Please understand the following.
                            >
                            > The water flow that we are talking about does not come from the top
                            > of a dam. It comes from the bottom of a gate. The gate is raised or
                            > lowered according to the amount of water needed down stream. After
                            > monitoring the gate position for over a year I find that there is
                            > never less than a 6" opening at the bottom. This leaves an opening
                            > that is 6" wide by 16' long.
                            >
                            > Here's the measurements I have taken. (Please remember that these
                            > were aquired while hanging off this dam)
                            >
                            > Using a 1/2" hose(flexible) it took 20 sec to fill a 2 gal
                            container.
                            > I can barely hold the hose in the water flow due to the current and
                            > the water spraying in my face.In order to have somewhere to set the
                            > container it was about 18" above the waterflow.
                            >
                            > In the same hose I get a 9.5' water column.
                            >
                            > I would say that in neither case was the hose in line with the
                            water
                            > flow.
                            >
                            > Using these figures (such as they are) I a flow rate of
                            30.8cuft/sec.
                            >
                            > Is this calc correct and does anyone have a better way of measuring
                            > this flow that is more reliable. If this was meant for only home
                            use
                            > it would not be as important but I am going to be looking to the
                            DOE
                            > for a grant to develop these sites
                            >
                            > Ken
                            =====================================================================
                            Re:
                            Thanks.U can use v- Notch to measure The Q.The Head in U/S side of
                            any Sluice counts.u can have a Powerhouse in the sides and the tail
                            Race can have a Opening in the parent channel.
                            The Sluice Type Micro hydro projects have certain limitations viz-
                            1.How many days during the year it is discharging Q.Max and Mini.
                            2.what is the Head Max and Min.what is the LSL.
                            3.The Power lines can go along the canal without affecting the Forest
                            areas.hence what is the distance of a D.C - Distribution Centre to
                            unload the produced Electricity.it is called Evacuation.
                            u can discuss.There r many good Power houses provided there is
                            contineous and ample of head and sufficient Q in The dam.
                            4.what is the purpose of The dam also helps deciding about Micro
                            Hydro Powers.
                            its all is very easy.with regards
                            D K Mishra-India
                            >

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                          • Otto Rike
                            This considered reply to my question was sent to everyone s yahoo mail bulk for some reason. Jac wrote: Hi Otto, I think
                            Message 13 of 26 , Mar 18, 2008
                            View Source
                            • 0 Attachment
                              This considered reply to my question was sent to everyone's yahoo mail bulk for some reason.

                              Jac <jchaurette@...> wrote: Hi Otto, I think a Pelton or a Turgo turbine would do well here. How much power you can develop will depend on how much flow is available. Here are a couple of scenarios with 85 ft of static head and 300 ft of pipe length:

                              1. Using a Pelton turbine with (1) 1" nozzle you will be able to generate 1200 watts at the wheel with a 4 in pipe at a flow rate of 175 gpm.
                              2. Using a Pelton turbine with (2) 1" nozzles you will be able to generate 2500 watts at the wheel with a 6 in pipe at a flow rate of 355 gpm.

                              Plastic pipe is fine.

                              Find out how to do your own calculations here:
                              http://www.lightmypump.com/micro-hydro.htm

                              and do them youself using this applet:
                              http://www.lightmypump.com/micro/micro.html

                              Cheers,

                              Jacques
                              www.lightmypump.com

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Otto Rike
                              To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 4:33 PM
                              Subject: Re: [microhydro] Choice of Turbines.

                              Hello Gruop,

                              We are up in the hills near in NW
                              California and have a big stream that runs all the time on the edge of the property.
                              I have not measured it --don't actually know how. But ther is always a good foot of water and it is a long jump across.

                              I think we can get about 85 ft. of fall with about 250-300 ft. of pipe. Is it possible to use plastic pipe?
                              What kind of turbine would be good.
                              Steve
                              deepakmandla <deepakmandla@...> wrote:
                              --- In microhydro@yahoogroups.com, "damelect" <ken@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Good Morning Everyone,
                              >
                              > Like most. I have joined this group due to a pending hydro project.
                              I
                              > will try to keep my questions to a minimum and wait for the
                              responses
                              > prior to moving to the next problem of the day.
                              >
                              > I would like to start with the first steps to see that my
                              > calculations are valid. Please understand the following.
                              >
                              > The water flow that we are talking about does not come from the top
                              > of a dam. It comes from the bottom of a gate. The gate is raised or
                              > lowered according to the amount of water needed down stream. After
                              > monitoring the gate position for over a year I find that there is
                              > never less than a 6" opening at the bottom. This leaves an opening
                              > that is 6" wide by 16' long.
                              >
                              > Here's the measurements I have taken. (Please remember that these
                              > were aquired while hanging off this dam)
                              >
                              > Using a 1/2" hose(flexible) it took 20 sec to fill a 2 gal
                              container.
                              > I can barely hold the hose in the water flow due to the current and
                              > the water spraying in my face.In order to have somewhere to set the
                              > container it was about 18" above the waterflow.
                              >
                              > In the same hose I get a 9.5' water column.
                              >
                              > I would say that in neither case was the hose in line with the
                              water
                              > flow.
                              >
                              > Using these figures (such as they are) I a flow rate of
                              30.8cuft/sec.
                              >
                              > Is this calc correct and does anyone have a better way of measuring
                              > this flow that is more reliable. If this was meant for only home
                              use
                              > it would not be as important but I am going to be looking to the
                              DOE
                              > for a grant to develop these sites
                              >
                              > Ken
                              =====================================================================
                              Re:
                              Thanks.U can use v- Notch to measure The Q.The Head in U/S side of
                              any Sluice counts.u can have a Powerhouse in the sides and the tail
                              Race can have a Opening in the parent channel.
                              The Sluice Type Micro hydro projects have certain limitations viz-
                              1.How many days during the year it is discharging Q.Max and Mini.
                              2.what is the Head Max and Min.what is the LSL.
                              3.The Power lines can go along the canal without affecting the Forest
                              areas.hence what is the distance of a D.C - Distribution Centre to
                              unload the produced Electricity.it is called Evacuation.
                              u can discuss.There r many good Power houses provided there is
                              contineous and ample of head and sufficient Q in The dam.
                              4.what is the purpose of The dam also helps deciding about Micro
                              Hydro Powers.
                              its all is very easy.with regards
                              D K Mishra-India
                              >

                              ---------------------------------
                              Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

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                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                              ---------------------------------
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                            • adiskey
                              I am a new member and looking for some information on induction motors being used as generators...... What type of induction motor works best 460? 240? How do
                              Message 14 of 26 , Mar 28, 2011
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                                I am a new member and looking for some information on induction motors being used as generators......

                                What type of induction motor works best 460? 240?

                                How do you figure how much power each size motor will produce?

                                How do you size the motor for feeding a 200 amp panel?

                                If a step-down transformer is used do you need an electronic load controller to handle power surges from starting motors?

                                Any information will be appreciated. Or any recommended sources to get the information.

                                Thank you
                                Amanda Diskey
                              • Nando
                                Amanda: Message writing If responding to a message - respond with the SUBJECT : OF the Thread You are responding to. If sending a new message with NO relation
                                Message 15 of 26 , Mar 29, 2011
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                                  Amanda:

                                  Message writing

                                  If responding to a message - respond with the SUBJECT : OF the Thread You
                                  are responding to.

                                  If sending a new message with NO relation to the Subject of an OLD Thread
                                  already existing, do not use the OLD thread Subject -- make a NEW THREAD .



                                  1) Name
                                  2) Where the member is located
                                  3) Member experience level with hydro principles (newbie, basic, some ,
                                  heavy etc )
                                  4) Project in mind (name of the site)
                                  5) Head (accurately measured )
                                  6) Water volume ( accurate measured seasonally) Ideally :lowest and highest
                                  season values and the year volume profile .
                                  7) Pipe ( Penstock) length
                                  8) Type of turbine if has been defined and why
                                  9) Generator type , power, voltage and frequency if Vac
                                  10) Expected power
                                  11) Site problems if any




                                  Your question is best answered if You help yourself by telling all of us what you are planning to do - instead of asking some questions that indicate that your knowledge in the hydro and electric principles may be limited and may give you problems later during your project development .

                                  The use of induction motors as generators is now a common use and how to use them, in a practical way, depends on what you may use them to produce electrical power.

                                  The question about transformers and motor starting indicates , heavily, that You need to describe, in detail , what you plan to do, do not be afraid, nobody in this group bites and we prefer to have the details for you to have the best hydro electric source.

                                  Nando




                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: adiskey
                                  To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:47 PM
                                  Subject: [microhydro] New Member



                                  I am a new member and looking for some information on induction motors being used as generators......

                                  What type of induction motor works best 460? 240?

                                  How do you figure how much power each size motor will produce?

                                  How do you size the motor for feeding a 200 amp panel?

                                  If a step-down transformer is used do you need an electronic load controller to handle power surges from starting motors?

                                  Any information will be appreciated. Or any recommended sources to get the information.

                                  Thank you
                                  Amanda Diskey





                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Tony Goffe
                                  ... From: Nando Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 5:56 PM To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [microhydro] New Member Amanda: Message
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Mar 31, 2011
                                  View Source
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    ...Hi, Amanda... I was going to suggest Nigel Smith's book on "Induction motors as Generators".. but I see its $33.00 on "Powells.com " !!! ( Its a puzzle why groups like "Practical Action " (the publisher ) cant find a way to bring these book prices down...??? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_generator ...this link will give you Wikipeadia's view on the matter.. there are some very CLEAR and SUCCINT posts on the ARCHIVES ( maybe still there ???) section of this group... check it out... tony

                                    ----------------------------------------

                                    From: "Nando" <nando37@...>
                                    Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 5:56 PM
                                    To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [microhydro] New Member



                                    Amanda:

                                    Message writing

                                    If responding to a message - respond with the SUBJECT : OF the Thread You
                                    are responding to.

                                    If sending a new message with NO relation to the Subject of an OLD Thread
                                    already existing, do not use the OLD thread Subject -- make a NEW THREAD .

                                    1) Name
                                    2) Where the member is located
                                    3) Member experience level with hydro principles (newbie, basic, some ,
                                    heavy etc )
                                    4) Project in mind (name of the site)
                                    5) Head (accurately measured )
                                    6) Water volume ( accurate measured seasonally) Ideally :lowest and highest
                                    season values and the year volume profile .
                                    7) Pipe ( Penstock) length
                                    8) Type of turbine if has been defined and why
                                    9) Generator type , power, voltage and frequency if Vac
                                    10) Expected power
                                    11) Site problems if any

                                    Your question is best answered if You help yourself by telling all of us what you are planning to do - instead of asking some questions that indicate that your knowledge in the hydro and electric principles may be limited and may give you problems later during your project development .

                                    The use of induction motors as generators is now a common use and how to use them, in a practical way, depends on what you may use them to produce electrical power.

                                    The question about transformers and motor starting indicates , heavily, that You need to describe, in detail , what you plan to do, do not be afraid, nobody in this group bites and we prefer to have the details for you to have the best hydro electric source.

                                    Nando

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: adiskey
                                    To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:47 PM
                                    Subject: [microhydro] New Member

                                    I am a new member and looking for some information on induction motors being used as generators......

                                    What type of induction motor works best 460? 240?

                                    How do you figure how much power each size motor will produce?

                                    How do you size the motor for feeding a 200 amp panel?

                                    If a step-down transformer is used do you need an electronic load controller to handle power surges from starting motors?

                                    Any information will be appreciated. Or any recommended sources to get the information.

                                    Thank you
                                    Amanda Diskey

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Emile Lando
                                    Hi all, I would like to know whether you can recommand some stores in Asia where I can purchase pipes for MHP projects. I am presently in Cameroon (Central
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Mar 31, 2011
                                    View Source
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hi all,

                                      I would like to know whether you can recommand some stores in Asia where I can
                                      purchase pipes for MHP projects.

                                      I am presently in Cameroon (Central Africa) working with a NGO.

                                      I am looking forward to hear from you

                                      Regards,
                                      ________________________________
                                      Emile Lando,
                                      Bafoussam, Cameroon





                                      ________________________________
                                      De : Nando <nando37@...>
                                      À : microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                                      Envoyé le : Mar 29 mars 2011, 14h 03min 53s
                                      Objet : Re: [microhydro] New Member


                                      Amanda:

                                      Message writing

                                      If responding to a message - respond with the SUBJECT : OF the Thread You
                                      are responding to.

                                      If sending a new message with NO relation to the Subject of an OLD Thread
                                      already existing, do not use the OLD thread Subject -- make a NEW THREAD .

                                      1) Name
                                      2) Where the member is located
                                      3) Member experience level with hydro principles (newbie, basic, some ,
                                      heavy etc )
                                      4) Project in mind (name of the site)
                                      5) Head (accurately measured )
                                      6) Water volume ( accurate measured seasonally) Ideally :lowest and highest
                                      season values and the year volume profile .
                                      7) Pipe ( Penstock) length
                                      8) Type of turbine if has been defined and why
                                      9) Generator type , power, voltage and frequency if Vac
                                      10) Expected power
                                      11) Site problems if any

                                      Your question is best answered if You help yourself by telling all of us what
                                      you are planning to do - instead of asking some questions that indicate that
                                      your knowledge in the hydro and electric principles may be limited and may give
                                      you problems later during your project development .

                                      The use of induction motors as generators is now a common use and how to use
                                      them, in a practical way, depends on what you may use them to produce electrical
                                      power.

                                      The question about transformers and motor starting indicates , heavily, that You
                                      need to describe, in detail , what you plan to do, do not be afraid, nobody in
                                      this group bites and we prefer to have the details for you to have the best
                                      hydro electric source.

                                      Nando

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: adiskey
                                      To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:47 PM
                                      Subject: [microhydro] New Member

                                      I am a new member and looking for some information on induction motors being
                                      used as generators......

                                      What type of induction motor works best 460? 240?

                                      How do you figure how much power each size motor will produce?

                                      How do you size the motor for feeding a 200 amp panel?

                                      If a step-down transformer is used do you need an electronic load controller to
                                      handle power surges from starting motors?

                                      Any information will be appreciated. Or any recommended sources to get the
                                      information.

                                      Thank you
                                      Amanda Diskey

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Nando
                                      Amanda: I hope you respond to my message to assist you better. Though I can tell you how to use the induction motor as a generator, One of the problems is the
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Mar 31, 2011
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                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Amanda:

                                        I hope you respond to my message to assist you better.

                                        Though I can tell you how to use the induction motor as a generator, One of the problems is the distance of the turbine to the load, another problem :if motors and their starting power with reference to the power generated by the induction motor may stall the turbine to the extreme of forcing the induction motor to stop working as a generator.

                                        The induction motor as a generator may be a good and economical solution in some cases, therefore it is best to supply the necessary information to see how is best to suggest to you a solution that gives long term satisfaction without problems, also the possible need of an ELC .

                                        You could obtain a Nigel Smith book " Induction motors as generators" that can give the calculations to find the capacitors to set the motor as a generator, though if you do not know the behavior of such arrangement, you may have a frustrating experience -- reason why again I ask for details.

                                        You may get suggestions to get the book, I suggest : better get informed properly to have a successful working project, I get constant direct emails from many trying to use induction motors as generators with major problems in their implementation.

                                        Nando



                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: Nando
                                        To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 8:03 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [microhydro] New Member



                                        Amanda:

                                        Message writing

                                        If responding to a message - respond with the SUBJECT : OF the Thread You
                                        are responding to.

                                        If sending a new message with NO relation to the Subject of an OLD Thread
                                        already existing, do not use the OLD thread Subject -- make a NEW THREAD .

                                        1) Name
                                        2) Where the member is located
                                        3) Member experience level with hydro principles (newbie, basic, some ,
                                        heavy etc )
                                        4) Project in mind (name of the site)
                                        5) Head (accurately measured )
                                        6) Water volume ( accurate measured seasonally) Ideally :lowest and highest
                                        season values and the year volume profile .
                                        7) Pipe ( Penstock) length
                                        8) Type of turbine if has been defined and why
                                        9) Generator type , power, voltage and frequency if Vac
                                        10) Expected power
                                        11) Site problems if any

                                        Your question is best answered if You help yourself by telling all of us what you are planning to do - instead of asking some questions that indicate that your knowledge in the hydro and electric principles may be limited and may give you problems later during your project development .

                                        The use of induction motors as generators is now a common use and how to use them, in a practical way, depends on what you may use them to produce electrical power.

                                        The question about transformers and motor starting indicates , heavily, that You need to describe, in detail , what you plan to do, do not be afraid, nobody in this group bites and we prefer to have the details for you to have the best hydro electric source.

                                        Nando

                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: adiskey
                                        To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:47 PM
                                        Subject: [microhydro] New Member

                                        I am a new member and looking for some information on induction motors being used as generators......

                                        What type of induction motor works best 460? 240?

                                        How do you figure how much power each size motor will produce?

                                        How do you size the motor for feeding a 200 amp panel?

                                        If a step-down transformer is used do you need an electronic load controller to handle power surges from starting motors?

                                        Any information will be appreciated. Or any recommended sources to get the information.

                                        Thank you
                                        Amanda Diskey

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Kenneth Naing
                                        Hi Emile Lando, What type of pipes, and how many pipes (volume, sizes) are you looking for? If you are looking for PVC pipes (blue), there are many stores in
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Mar 31, 2011
                                        View Source
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Hi Emile Lando,

                                          What type of pipes, and how many pipes (volume, sizes) are you looking for? If you are looking for PVC pipes (blue),
                                          there are many stores in Bangkok city, Thailand or in suburb that can sell you all types of PVC pipe you need. I don't think
                                          you can buy it on-line since there are bulky and usually send to the work site directly by the contractors or workers. They are
                                          also not expensive.

                                          I am currently working on micro hydro power generation plant installation in North Eastern Thailand. I would be happy to provide
                                          you the name, and contact info of the shops if you like.

                                          I am also a steel pipe (hollow pipes - hot roll steel, cold roll steel) manufacturer in Thailand. We produce steel pipes (round, square,
                                          rectangles - various sizes from 25mm - 250mm, standard length 6M, thickness 0.5 mm - 5 mm. We normally sell only in bulk
                                          at minimum 10 metric tons (one truck load) or more. If you want less than a truck load, you have to pickup at the factory.
                                          I will be happy to provide you the quotation if you can provide the details: type of pipe (hot roll/cold roll - round,square, rectangle),
                                          type of finish (oil coating, paint, galvanized, ..), size - 25mm - 250mm, length - Standard 6M or custom.

                                          Regards,

                                          Kenneth Naing
                                          Bangkok, Thailand
                                          website: www.thaikoon.co.th
                                          To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                                          From: landoemile@...
                                          Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:00:36 +0100
                                          Subject: [microhydro] Pipe Stores in Asia




























                                          Hi all,



                                          I would like to know whether you can recommand some stores in Asia where I can

                                          purchase pipes for MHP projects.



                                          I am presently in Cameroon (Central Africa) working with a NGO.



                                          I am looking forward to hear from you



                                          Regards,

                                          ________________________________

                                          Emile Lando,

                                          Bafoussam, Cameroon



                                          ________________________________

                                          De : Nando <nando37@...>

                                          � : microhydro@yahoogroups.com

                                          Envoy� le : Mar 29 mars 2011, 14h 03min 53s

                                          Objet : Re: [microhydro] New Member



                                          Amanda:



                                          Message writing



                                          If responding to a message - respond with the SUBJECT : OF the Thread You

                                          are responding to.



                                          If sending a new message with NO relation to the Subject of an OLD Thread

                                          already existing, do not use the OLD thread Subject -- make a NEW THREAD .



                                          1) Name

                                          2) Where the member is located

                                          3) Member experience level with hydro principles (newbie, basic, some ,

                                          heavy etc )

                                          4) Project in mind (name of the site)

                                          5) Head (accurately measured )

                                          6) Water volume ( accurate measured seasonally) Ideally :lowest and highest

                                          season values and the year volume profile .

                                          7) Pipe ( Penstock) length

                                          8) Type of turbine if has been defined and why

                                          9) Generator type , power, voltage and frequency if Vac

                                          10) Expected power

                                          11) Site problems if any



                                          Your question is best answered if You help yourself by telling all of us what

                                          you are planning to do - instead of asking some questions that indicate that

                                          your knowledge in the hydro and electric principles may be limited and may give

                                          you problems later during your project development .



                                          The use of induction motors as generators is now a common use and how to use

                                          them, in a practical way, depends on what you may use them to produce electrical

                                          power.



                                          The question about transformers and motor starting indicates , heavily, that You

                                          need to describe, in detail , what you plan to do, do not be afraid, nobody in

                                          this group bites and we prefer to have the details for you to have the best

                                          hydro electric source.



                                          Nando



                                          ----- Original Message -----

                                          From: adiskey

                                          To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com

                                          Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:47 PM

                                          Subject: [microhydro] New Member



                                          I am a new member and looking for some information on induction motors being

                                          used as generators......



                                          What type of induction motor works best 460? 240?



                                          How do you figure how much power each size motor will produce?



                                          How do you size the motor for feeding a 200 amp panel?



                                          If a step-down transformer is used do you need an electronic load controller to

                                          handle power surges from starting motors?



                                          Any information will be appreciated. Or any recommended sources to get the

                                          information.



                                          Thank you

                                          Amanda Diskey



                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Божидар Новаковић
                                          hello amanda, I happen to have a copy of the book in pdf format... if you want i can send it to you... also anyone else that needs the book, just mail me. It s
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Apr 1 2:07 AM
                                          View Source
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            hello amanda, I happen to have a copy of the book in pdf format... if you
                                            want i can send it to you... also anyone else that needs the book, just mail
                                            me. It's free!!!

                                            Nigel Smith's book on "Induction motors as Generators"

                                            bokche

                                            Motors as Generators - N. Smith, ITDG UK 1994.pdf
                                            7,10MB


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Emile Lando
                                            Hi Kenneth Naing, thank you so much for the answer. We need about 500 PVC pipes,diameter 150 mm (250 pipes) and 250mm (250 pipes), length 6M for our projects.
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Apr 6 7:52 AM
                                            View Source
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Hi Kenneth Naing,

                                              thank you so much for the answer. We need about 500 PVC pipes,diameter 150 mm
                                              (250 pipes) and 250mm (250 pipes), length 6M for our projects. I would be very
                                              happy, if you can provide me the contacts (including Email if possible) of some
                                              shops.

                                              Nevertheless could you provides me the prices of your products (hollow types)?

                                              Best regards,
                                              ________________________________
                                              Emile Lando,
                                              Bafoussam, Cameroon





                                              ________________________________
                                              De : Kenneth Naing <kennaing@...>
                                              À : microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                                              Envoyé le : Ven 1 avril 2011, 7h 08min 45s
                                              Objet : RE: [microhydro] Pipe Stores in Asia


                                              Hi Emile Lando,

                                              What type of pipes, and how many pipes (volume, sizes) are you looking for? If
                                              you are looking for PVC pipes (blue),

                                              there are many stores in Bangkok city, Thailand or in suburb that can sell you
                                              all types of PVC pipe you need. I don't think
                                              you can buy it on-line since there are bulky and usually send to the work site
                                              directly by the contractors or workers. They are
                                              also not expensive.

                                              I am currently working on micro hydro power generation plant installation in
                                              North Eastern Thailand. I would be happy to provide
                                              you the name, and contact info of the shops if you like.

                                              I am also a steel pipe (hollow pipes - hot roll steel, cold roll steel)
                                              manufacturer in Thailand. We produce steel pipes (round, square,

                                              rectangles - various sizes from 25mm - 250mm, standard length 6M, thickness 0.5
                                              mm - 5 mm. We normally sell only in bulk
                                              at minimum 10 metric tons (one truck load) or more. If you want less than a
                                              truck load, you have to pickup at the factory.

                                              I will be happy to provide you the quotation if you can provide the details:
                                              type of pipe (hot roll/cold roll - round,square, rectangle),

                                              type of finish (oil coating, paint, galvanized, ..), size - 25mm - 250mm, length
                                              - Standard 6M or custom.


                                              Regards,

                                              Kenneth Naing
                                              Bangkok, Thailand
                                              website: www.thaikoon.co.th
                                              To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                                              From: landoemile@...
                                              Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:00:36 +0100
                                              Subject: [microhydro] Pipe Stores in Asia




























                                              Hi all,



                                              I would like to know whether you can recommand some stores in Asia where I can

                                              purchase pipes for MHP projects.



                                              I am presently in Cameroon (Central Africa) working with a NGO.



                                              I am looking forward to hear from you



                                              Regards,

                                              ________________________________

                                              Emile Lando,

                                              Bafoussam, Cameroon



                                              ________________________________

                                              De : Nando <nando37@...>

                                              À : microhydro@yahoogroups.com

                                              Envoyé le : Mar 29 mars 2011, 14h 03min 53s

                                              Objet : Re: [microhydro] New Member



                                              Amanda:



                                              Message writing



                                              If responding to a message - respond with the SUBJECT : OF the Thread You

                                              are responding to.



                                              If sending a new message with NO relation to the Subject of an OLD Thread

                                              already existing, do not use the OLD thread Subject -- make a NEW THREAD .



                                              1) Name

                                              2) Where the member is located

                                              3) Member experience level with hydro principles (newbie, basic, some ,

                                              heavy etc )

                                              4) Project in mind (name of the site)

                                              5) Head (accurately measured )

                                              6) Water volume ( accurate measured seasonally) Ideally :lowest and highest

                                              season values and the year volume profile .

                                              7) Pipe ( Penstock) length

                                              8) Type of turbine if has been defined and why

                                              9) Generator type , power, voltage and frequency if Vac

                                              10) Expected power

                                              11) Site problems if any



                                              Your question is best answered if You help yourself by telling all of us what

                                              you are planning to do - instead of asking some questions that indicate that

                                              your knowledge in the hydro and electric principles may be limited and may give

                                              you problems later during your project development .



                                              The use of induction motors as generators is now a common use and how to use

                                              them, in a practical way, depends on what you may use them to produce electrical


                                              power.



                                              The question about transformers and motor starting indicates , heavily, that You


                                              need to describe, in detail , what you plan to do, do not be afraid, nobody in

                                              this group bites and we prefer to have the details for you to have the best

                                              hydro electric source.



                                              Nando



                                              ----- Original Message -----

                                              From: adiskey

                                              To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com

                                              Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:47 PM

                                              Subject: [microhydro] New Member



                                              I am a new member and looking for some information on induction motors being

                                              used as generators......



                                              What type of induction motor works best 460? 240?



                                              How do you figure how much power each size motor will produce?



                                              How do you size the motor for feeding a 200 amp panel?



                                              If a step-down transformer is used do you need an electronic load controller to

                                              handle power surges from starting motors?



                                              Any information will be appreciated. Or any recommended sources to get the

                                              information.



                                              Thank you

                                              Amanda Diskey



                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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