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Re: [microhydro] Re: Need Assistance

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  • Carlos Bonifetti
    Hi Fachri, As was said by other members, you must know the first flow and head available for the MHP plant, for select the turbine type, Cross flow, Pelton or
    Message 1 of 20 , Oct 31, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi Fachri,

      As was said by other members, you must know the first flow and head available for the MHP plant, for select the turbine type, Cross flow, Pelton or Turgo, power associated equipment and so on. My friend Agus Sebayang could be a good help for your project because his experience in such plants.
      Regards,
      Carlos Bonifetti
      Chile
      ----------------------------------------



      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Agus Sebayang
      To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:23 AM
      Subject: Re: [microhydro] Re: Need Assistance


      Hi Fachri Hamdan.

      I read you e-mail and if you need to now to install MHP step by wecan sharing it with you and can you sent to me
      about you flow, high , ect and we have made Cross flow turbine and Governoor electronic
      Thanks.
      Agus Sebayang.
      Community and Technology Foundation.
      Jl. Melati II No. 10.Komp, Pemda.
      Tj Sari. Medan .North SumateraIndonesia Telp. 061-8361220.
      Fax. 061-8366056.
      E-mail :agus_sebayang@...
      Mobile Phone : 081370243092


      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Mark Drabick <h2mjd@...>
      To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 10:42:55 PM
      Subject: Re: [microhydro] Re: Need Assistance

      Hi Marinda..... ....just read your post........ i'm in NH and have a microhydro plant running for a number of years....if you want to chat or compare notes about hydro stuff with someone close by let me know.......its always fun to meet someone local doing a hydro project..... mark in NH

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: m bowen
      To: microhydro@yahoogro ups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 7:04 AM
      Subject: Re: [microhydro] Re: Need Assistance

      dennis: where are these turbines (pelton/turgo) readily available off the shelf? i ordered one from a solar store in VT 6 weeks ago and it still isn't in. they explained it as a custom job. but if these turbines are readily available on a shelf in new england somewhere please tell me where.

      thanks, marinda
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Dennis Buller
      To: microhydro@yahoogro ups.com
      Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:53 AM
      Subject: Re: [microhydro] Re: Need Assistance

      Hello Fachri,
      It depends on the water source.
      For large, no head rivers I would recommend A PVC, floating undershot wheel with a spiral pump. This is a fairly simple, cheap design that will give you continuous water for Grey water and irrigation.
      For high volume water situation with head less than 10 foot, I would suggest an Overshot Wheel with a DC generating system. The power generated would go into batteries for DC lighting, water heating, and water pumping.
      For low volume, high head I would recommend an AC system with Pelton or Turgo turbines, or a water-motor. These are readily available, off the shelf.
      You will have to decide what your water situation is; what you are trying to accomplish and how much money you have to spend.....
      -Dennis

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: wae_lagi<mailto:wae_lagi@yahoo. com>
      To: microhydro@yahoogro ups.com<mailto:microhydro@yahoogro ups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:02 AM
      Subject: [microhydro] Re: Need Assistance

      Hello Dennis

      Thanks for the input. From your information, should i cover about the
      3 parts that you mention, or it just a supporting knowledge that i
      have to know to support the Microhydro Plant. As short as I know,
      three parts has same basic thing. So, one to another are correlated.

      Am i right, Please advise?

      For other member, is there any opinion?

      Thanks and regards

      Fachri

      --- In microhydro@yahoogro ups.com<mailto:microhydro% 40yahoogroups. com>, "Dennis Buller"
      <wildwaterpower@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > Greetings Fachri,
      > The first thing you must ask yourself is what you are trying to
      accomplish. Producing electricity is the most complicated form of
      Microhydro.
      > For simpler solutions to problems you may have in your area you
      should look at using hydropower for:
      > - Pumping Grey-water for septic use.
      > - Pumping water for irrigation
      > - Providing pressurized water to run industrial tools (water-motors)
      > I am not saying the production of electricity is not a worthy
      endeavor. But it is much more complicated.
      > The applications listed above will allow you to "jump in" to
      hydropower with less money, tools and skill.
      > Please take a look at my web page which lists a great deal of
      Hydro possibilities.
      > -Dennis
      >
      http://www.wildwate rpower.com/ contactus. html<http://www.wildwate rpower.com/ contactus. html><http://www.wildwate rpower.com/ contactus. html<http://wwwwildwater power.com/ contactus. html>>
      >
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: wae_lagi<mailto: wae_lagi@ ...>
      > To: microhydro@yahoogro ups.com<mailto:microhydro% 40yahoogroups. com><mailto:microhydro@yahoogro ups.com<mailto:microhydro% 40yahoogroups. com>>
      > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:10 PM
      > Subject: [microhydro] Need Assistance
      >
      >
      > Dear All
      >
      > I am a new person in Microhydro. I need assistance on how to build a
      > Microhydro Plant from the basic things. I live in Indonesia and i saw
      > alot of potential place to build a Microhydro plant.
      > For all the member of groups, please help me a suggestion step by step
      > on how to build a Microhydro Plant.
      >
      > Thank you for your kind attention
      >
      > Regards
      >
      > Fachri Hamdan
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      __________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      http://mail.yahoo.com

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • m bowen
      excellent richard! i am definitely in need of a local network. feel free to email directly at pulsechic@hotmail.com thanks, marinda ... From: R. Hoffman To:
      Message 2 of 20 , Oct 31, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        excellent richard! i am definitely in need of a local network. feel free to email directly at pulsechic@...

        thanks,
        marinda
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: R. Hoffman
        To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 12:29 PM
        Subject: Re: [microhydro] Re: Need Assistance


        Mark and Marinda -- I'm in west-central NH, and have been considering
        a microhydro project in the larger of my streams. First step was
        replacing the oil heat with a wood boiler, but now I'm looking at
        power generation. It would be great to chat with someone local about
        it.

        Thanks,

        --Richard

        At 10:42 AM -0500 10/30/07, Mark Drabick wrote:
        >Hi Marinda.........just read your post........i'm in NH and have a
        >microhydro plant running for a number of years....if you want to
        >chat or compare notes about hydro stuff with someone close by let me
        >know.......its always fun to meet someone local doing a hydro
        >project.....mark in NH
        >
        >----- Original Message -----
        >From: m bowen
        >To: <mailto:microhydro%40yahoogroups.com>microhydro@yahoogroups.com
        >Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 7:04 AM
        >Subject: Re: [microhydro] Re: Need Assistance
        >
        >dennis: where are these turbines (pelton/turgo) readily available
        >off the shelf? i ordered one from a solar store in VT 6 weeks ago
        >and it still isn't in. they explained it as a custom job. but if
        >these turbines are readily available on a shelf in new england
        >somewhere please tell me where.
        >
        >thanks, marinda
        >----- Original Message -----
        >From: Dennis Buller
        >To: <mailto:microhydro%40yahoogroups.com>microhydro@yahoogroups.com
        >Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:53 AM
        >Subject: Re: [microhydro] Re: Need Assistance
        >
        >Hello Fachri,
        >It depends on the water source.
        >For large, no head rivers I would recommend A PVC, floating
        >undershot wheel with a spiral pump. This is a fairly simple, cheap
        >design that will give you continuous water for Grey water and
        >irrigation.
        >For high volume water situation with head less than 10 foot, I would
        >suggest an Overshot Wheel with a DC generating system. The power
        >generated would go into batteries for DC lighting, water heating,
        >and water pumping.
        >For low volume, high head I would recommend an AC system with Pelton
        >or Turgo turbines, or a water-motor. These are readily available,
        >off the shelf.
        >You will have to decide what your water situation is; what you are
        >trying to accomplish and how much money you have to spend.....
        >-Dennis
        >
        >----- Original Message -----
        >From: wae_lagi<mailto:<mailto:wae_lagi%40yahoo.com>wae_lagi@...>
        >To:
        ><mailto:microhydro%40yahoogroups.com>microhydro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:<mailto:microhydro%40yahoogroups.com>microhydro@yahoogroups.com>
        >Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:02 AM
        >Subject: [microhydro] Re: Need Assistance
        >
        >Hello Dennis
        >
        >Thanks for the input. From your information, should i cover about the
        >3 parts that you mention, or it just a supporting knowledge that i
        >have to know to support the Microhydro Plant. As short as I know,
        >three parts has same basic thing. So, one to another are correlated.
        >
        >Am i right, Please advise?
        >
        >For other member, is there any opinion?
        >
        >Thanks and regards
        >
        >Fachri
        >
        >--- In
        ><mailto:microhydro%40yahoogroups.com>microhydro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:microhydro%40yahoogroups.com>,
        >"Dennis Buller"
        ><wildwaterpower@...> wrote:
        >>
        >> Greetings Fachri,
        >> The first thing you must ask yourself is what you are trying to
        >accomplish. Producing electricity is the most complicated form of
        >Microhydro.
        >> For simpler solutions to problems you may have in your area you
        >should look at using hydropower for:
        >> - Pumping Grey-water for septic use.
        >> - Pumping water for irrigation
        >> - Providing pressurized water to run industrial tools (water-motors)
        >> I am not saying the production of electricity is not a worthy
        >endeavor. But it is much more complicated.
        >> The applications listed above will allow you to "jump in" to
        >hydropower with less money, tools and skill.
        >> Please take a look at my web page which lists a great deal of
        >Hydro possibilities.
        >> -Dennis
        >>
        ><http://www.wildwaterpower.com/contactus.html>http://www.wildwaterpower.com/contactus.html<<http://www.wildwaterpower.com/contactus.html>http://www.wildwaterpower.com/contactus.html><<http://www.wildwaterpower.com/contactus.html>http://www.wildwaterpower.com/contactus.html<<http://wwwwildwaterpower.com/contactus.html>http://wwwwildwaterpower.com/contactus.html>>
        > >
        >>
        >>
        >> ----- Original Message -----
        >> From: wae_lagi<mailto:wae_lagi@...>
        >> To:
        >><mailto:microhydro%40yahoogroups.com>microhydro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:microhydro%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:<mailto:microhydro%40yahoogroups.com>microhydro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:microhydro%40yahoogroups.com>>
        >> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:10 PM
        >> Subject: [microhydro] Need Assistance
        >>
        >>
        >> Dear All
        >>
        >> I am a new person in Microhydro. I need assistance on how to build a
        >> Microhydro Plant from the basic things. I live in Indonesia and i saw
        >> alot of potential place to build a Microhydro plant.
        >> For all the member of groups, please help me a suggestion step by step
        >> on how to build a Microhydro Plant.
        >>
        >> Thank you for your kind attention
        >>
        >> Regards
        >>
        >> Fachri Hamdan
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>
        >
        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • wae_lagi
        Hi Agus... It is nice to know you. Have you installed any MPH system in Indonesia? Thanks and regards Fachri Hamdan ... wecan sharing it with you and can you
        Message 3 of 20 , Oct 31, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Agus...

          It is nice to know you. Have you installed any MPH system in Indonesia?

          Thanks and regards

          Fachri Hamdan
          --- In microhydro@yahoogroups.com, Agus Sebayang <agus_sebayang@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Hi Fachri Hamdan.
          >
          > I read you e-mail and if you need to now to install MHP step by
          wecan sharing it with you and can you sent to me
          > about you flow, high , ect and we have made Cross flow turbine and
          Governoor electronic
          > Thanks.
          > Agus Sebayang.
          > Community and Technology Foundation.
          > Jl. Melati II No. 10.Komp, Pemda.
          > Tj Sari. Medan .North SumateraIndonesia Telp. 061-8361220.
          >
          Fax. 061-8366056.
          >
          E-mail :agus_sebayang@...
          >
          Mobile Phone : 081370243092
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message ----
          > From: Mark Drabick <h2mjd@...>
          > To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 10:42:55 PM
          > Subject: Re: [microhydro] Re: Need Assistance
          >
          > Hi Marinda..... ....just read your post........ i'm in NH and have a
          microhydro plant running for a number of years....if you want to chat
          or compare notes about hydro stuff with someone close by let me
          know.......its always fun to meet someone local doing a hydro
          project..... mark in NH
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: m bowen
          > To: microhydro@yahoogro ups.com
          > Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 7:04 AM
          > Subject: Re: [microhydro] Re: Need Assistance
          >
          > dennis: where are these turbines (pelton/turgo) readily available
          off the shelf? i ordered one from a solar store in VT 6 weeks ago and
          it still isn't in. they explained it as a custom job. but if these
          turbines are readily available on a shelf in new england somewhere
          please tell me where.
          >
          > thanks, marinda
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Dennis Buller
          > To: microhydro@yahoogro ups.com
          > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:53 AM
          > Subject: Re: [microhydro] Re: Need Assistance
          >
          > Hello Fachri,
          > It depends on the water source.
          > For large, no head rivers I would recommend A PVC, floating
          undershot wheel with a spiral pump. This is a fairly simple, cheap
          design that will give you continuous water for Grey water and irrigation.
          > For high volume water situation with head less than 10 foot, I would
          suggest an Overshot Wheel with a DC generating system. The power
          generated would go into batteries for DC lighting, water heating, and
          water pumping.
          > For low volume, high head I would recommend an AC system with Pelton
          or Turgo turbines, or a water-motor. These are readily available, off
          the shelf.
          > You will have to decide what your water situation is; what you are
          trying to accomplish and how much money you have to spend.....
          > -Dennis
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: wae_lagi<mailto:wae_lagi@yahoo. com>
          > To: microhydro@yahoogro ups.com<mailto:microhydro@yahoogro ups.com>
          > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:02 AM
          > Subject: [microhydro] Re: Need Assistance
          >
          > Hello Dennis
          >
          > Thanks for the input. From your information, should i cover about the
          > 3 parts that you mention, or it just a supporting knowledge that i
          > have to know to support the Microhydro Plant. As short as I know,
          > three parts has same basic thing. So, one to another are correlated.
          >
          > Am i right, Please advise?
          >
          > For other member, is there any opinion?
          >
          > Thanks and regards
          >
          > Fachri
          >
          > --- In microhydro@yahoogro ups.com<mailto:microhydro% 40yahoogroups.
          com>, "Dennis Buller"
          > <wildwaterpower@ ...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Greetings Fachri,
          > > The first thing you must ask yourself is what you are trying to
          > accomplish. Producing electricity is the most complicated form of
          > Microhydro.
          > > For simpler solutions to problems you may have in your area you
          > should look at using hydropower for:
          > > - Pumping Grey-water for septic use.
          > > - Pumping water for irrigation
          > > - Providing pressurized water to run industrial tools (water-motors)
          > > I am not saying the production of electricity is not a worthy
          > endeavor. But it is much more complicated.
          > > The applications listed above will allow you to "jump in" to
          > hydropower with less money, tools and skill.
          > > Please take a look at my web page which lists a great deal of
          > Hydro possibilities.
          > > -Dennis
          > >
          > http://www.wildwate rpower.com/ contactus. html<http://www.wildwate
          rpower.com/ contactus. html><http://www.wildwate rpower.com/
          contactus. html<http://wwwwildwater power.com/ contactus. html>>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: wae_lagi<mailto: wae_lagi@ ...>
          > > To: microhydro@yahoogro ups.com<mailto:microhydro% 40yahoogroups.
          com><mailto:microhydro@yahoogro ups.com<mailto:microhydro%
          40yahoogroups. com>>
          > > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:10 PM
          > > Subject: [microhydro] Need Assistance
          > >
          > >
          > > Dear All
          > >
          > > I am a new person in Microhydro. I need assistance on how to build a
          > > Microhydro Plant from the basic things. I live in Indonesia and i saw
          > > alot of potential place to build a Microhydro plant.
          > > For all the member of groups, please help me a suggestion step by step
          > > on how to build a Microhydro Plant.
          > >
          > > Thank you for your kind attention
          > >
          > > Regards
          > >
          > > Fachri Hamdan
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________________________
          > Do You Yahoo!?
          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          > http://mail.yahoo.com
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Mark Drabick
          Richard...........you ll need to post your email address so we can contact you........mark in NH ... From: R. Hoffman To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com Sent:
          Message 4 of 20 , Nov 1, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Richard...........you'll need to post your email address so we can contact you........mark in NH

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: R. Hoffman
            To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 12:29 PM
            Subject: Re: [microhydro] Re: Need Assistance


            Mark and Marinda -- I'm in west-central NH, and have been considering
            a microhydro project in the larger of my streams. First step was
            replacing the oil heat with a wood boiler, but now I'm looking at
            power generation. It would be great to chat with someone local about
            it.

            Thanks,

            --Richard

            At 10:42 AM -0500 10/30/07, Mark Drabick wrote:
            >Hi Marinda.........just read your post........i'm in NH and have a
            >microhydro plant running for a number of years....if you want to
            >chat or compare notes about hydro stuff with someone close by let me
            >know.......its always fun to meet someone local doing a hydro
            >project.....mark in NH
            >
            >----- Original Message -----
            >From: m bowen
            >To: <mailto:microhydro%40yahoogroups.com>microhydro@yahoogroups.com
            >Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 7:04 AM
            >Subject: Re: [microhydro] Re: Need Assistance
            >
            >dennis: where are these turbines (pelton/turgo) readily available
            >off the shelf? i ordered one from a solar store in VT 6 weeks ago
            >and it still isn't in. they explained it as a custom job. but if
            >these turbines are readily available on a shelf in new england
            >somewhere please tell me where.
            >
            >thanks, marinda
            >----- Original Message -----
            >From: Dennis Buller
            >To: <mailto:microhydro%40yahoogroups.com>microhydro@yahoogroups.com
            >Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:53 AM
            >Subject: Re: [microhydro] Re: Need Assistance
            >
            >Hello Fachri,
            >It depends on the water source.
            >For large, no head rivers I would recommend A PVC, floating
            >undershot wheel with a spiral pump. This is a fairly simple, cheap
            >design that will give you continuous water for Grey water and
            >irrigation.
            >For high volume water situation with head less than 10 foot, I would
            >suggest an Overshot Wheel with a DC generating system. The power
            >generated would go into batteries for DC lighting, water heating,
            >and water pumping.
            >For low volume, high head I would recommend an AC system with Pelton
            >or Turgo turbines, or a water-motor. These are readily available,
            >off the shelf.
            >You will have to decide what your water situation is; what you are
            >trying to accomplish and how much money you have to spend.....
            >-Dennis
            >
            >----- Original Message -----
            >From: wae_lagi<mailto:<mailto:wae_lagi%40yahoo.com>wae_lagi@...>
            >To:
            ><mailto:microhydro%40yahoogroups.com>microhydro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:<mailto:microhydro%40yahoogroups.com>microhydro@yahoogroups.com>
            >Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:02 AM
            >Subject: [microhydro] Re: Need Assistance
            >
            >Hello Dennis
            >
            >Thanks for the input. From your information, should i cover about the
            >3 parts that you mention, or it just a supporting knowledge that i
            >have to know to support the Microhydro Plant. As short as I know,
            >three parts has same basic thing. So, one to another are correlated.
            >
            >Am i right, Please advise?
            >
            >For other member, is there any opinion?
            >
            >Thanks and regards
            >
            >Fachri
            >
            >--- In
            ><mailto:microhydro%40yahoogroups.com>microhydro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:microhydro%40yahoogroups.com>,
            >"Dennis Buller"
            ><wildwaterpower@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> Greetings Fachri,
            >> The first thing you must ask yourself is what you are trying to
            >accomplish. Producing electricity is the most complicated form of
            >Microhydro.
            >> For simpler solutions to problems you may have in your area you
            >should look at using hydropower for:
            >> - Pumping Grey-water for septic use.
            >> - Pumping water for irrigation
            >> - Providing pressurized water to run industrial tools (water-motors)
            >> I am not saying the production of electricity is not a worthy
            >endeavor. But it is much more complicated.
            >> The applications listed above will allow you to "jump in" to
            >hydropower with less money, tools and skill.
            >> Please take a look at my web page which lists a great deal of
            >Hydro possibilities.
            >> -Dennis
            >>
            ><http://www.wildwaterpower.com/contactus.html>http://www.wildwaterpower.com/contactus.html<<http://www.wildwaterpower.com/contactus.html>http://www.wildwaterpower.com/contactus.html><<http://www.wildwaterpower.com/contactus.html>http://www.wildwaterpower.com/contactus.html<<http://wwwwildwaterpower.com/contactus.html>http://wwwwildwaterpower.com/contactus.html>>
            > >
            >>
            >>
            >> ----- Original Message -----
            >> From: wae_lagi<mailto:wae_lagi@...>
            >> To:
            >><mailto:microhydro%40yahoogroups.com>microhydro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:microhydro%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:<mailto:microhydro%40yahoogroups.com>microhydro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:microhydro%40yahoogroups.com>>
            >> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:10 PM
            >> Subject: [microhydro] Need Assistance
            >>
            >>
            >> Dear All
            >>
            >> I am a new person in Microhydro. I need assistance on how to build a
            >> Microhydro Plant from the basic things. I live in Indonesia and i saw
            >> alot of potential place to build a Microhydro plant.
            >> For all the member of groups, please help me a suggestion step by step
            >> on how to build a Microhydro Plant.
            >>
            >> Thank you for your kind attention
            >>
            >> Regards
            >>
            >> Fachri Hamdan
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • keith flaherty
            I have a question for the group. I have a stream and have put in a 6 pipe with about 100 of head. The stream flows somewhere between 5gpm in summer to more
            Message 5 of 20 , Nov 1, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              I have a question for the group. I have a stream and
              have put in a 6" pipe with about 100' of head. The
              stream flows somewhere between 5gpm in summer to more
              than the pipe can handle in the winter. I'd like to
              have a couple of pelton wheel at the outflow to
              accomodate the variable flow.

              So one question is how do I size the wire going back
              to the electrical panel to accomodate for 5k peak
              output. (around 5-600')

              AC vs DC power and what's involved with syncing the Ac
              power if that's the right choice?

              Keith


              --- m bowen <pulsechic@...> wrote:

              > thank you mark. i would definitely be interested in
              > comparing notes as this is our first adventure in
              > hydro. you can email me directly at
              > pulsechic@...
              >
              > marinda
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Mark Drabick
              > To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 10:42 AM
              > Subject: Re: [microhydro] Re: Need Assistance
              >
              >
              > Hi Marinda.........just read your post........i'm
              > in NH and have a microhydro plant running for a
              > number of years....if you want to chat or compare
              > notes about hydro stuff with someone close by let me
              > know.......its always fun to meet someone local
              > doing a hydro project.....mark in NH
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: m bowen
              > To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 7:04 AM
              > Subject: Re: [microhydro] Re: Need Assistance
              >
              > dennis: where are these turbines (pelton/turgo)
              > readily available off the shelf? i ordered one from
              > a solar store in VT 6 weeks ago and it still isn't
              > in. they explained it as a custom job. but if these
              > turbines are readily available on a shelf in new
              > england somewhere please tell me where.
              >
              > thanks, marinda
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Dennis Buller
              > To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:53 AM
              > Subject: Re: [microhydro] Re: Need Assistance
              >
              > Hello Fachri,
              > It depends on the water source.
              > For large, no head rivers I would recommend A PVC,
              > floating undershot wheel with a spiral pump. This is
              > a fairly simple, cheap design that will give you
              > continuous water for Grey water and irrigation.
              > For high volume water situation with head less
              > than 10 foot, I would suggest an Overshot Wheel with
              > a DC generating system. The power generated would go
              > into batteries for DC lighting, water heating, and
              > water pumping.
              > For low volume, high head I would recommend an AC
              > system with Pelton or Turgo turbines, or a
              > water-motor. These are readily available, off the
              > shelf.
              > You will have to decide what your water situation
              > is; what you are trying to accomplish and how much
              > money you have to spend.....
              > -Dennis
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: wae_lagi<mailto:wae_lagi@...>
              > To:
              >
              microhydro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:microhydro@yahoogroups.com>
              >
              > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:02 AM
              > Subject: [microhydro] Re: Need Assistance
              >
              > Hello Dennis
              >
              > Thanks for the input. From your information,
              > should i cover about the
              > 3 parts that you mention, or it just a supporting
              > knowledge that i
              > have to know to support the Microhydro Plant. As
              > short as I know,
              > three parts has same basic thing. So, one to
              > another are correlated.
              >
              > Am i right, Please advise?
              >
              > For other member, is there any opinion?
              >
              > Thanks and regards
              >
              > Fachri
              >
              > --- In
              >
              microhydro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:microhydro%40yahoogroups.com>,
              > "Dennis Buller"
              > <wildwaterpower@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Greetings Fachri,
              > > The first thing you must ask yourself is what
              > you are trying to
              > accomplish. Producing electricity is the most
              > complicated form of
              > Microhydro.
              > > For simpler solutions to problems you may have
              > in your area you
              > should look at using hydropower for:
              > > - Pumping Grey-water for septic use.
              > > - Pumping water for irrigation
              > > - Providing pressurized water to run industrial
              > tools (water-motors)
              > > I am not saying the production of electricity is
              > not a worthy
              > endeavor. But it is much more complicated.
              > > The applications listed above will allow you to
              > "jump in" to
              > hydropower with less money, tools and skill.
              > > Please take a look at my web page which lists a
              > great deal of
              > Hydro possibilities.
              > > -Dennis
              > >
              >
              >
              http://www.wildwaterpower.com/contactus.html<http://www.wildwaterpower.com/contactus.html><http://www.wildwaterpower.com/contactus.html<http://wwwwildwaterpower.com/contactus.html>>
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: wae_lagi<mailto:wae_lagi@...>
              > > To:
              >
              microhydro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:microhydro%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:microhydro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:microhydro%40yahoogroups.com>>
              >
              > > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:10 PM
              > > Subject: [microhydro] Need Assistance
              > >
              > >
              > > Dear All
              > >
              > > I am a new person in Microhydro. I need
              > assistance on how to build a
              > > Microhydro Plant from the basic things. I live
              > in Indonesia and i saw
              > > alot of potential place to build a Microhydro
              > plant.
              > > For all the member of groups, please help me a
              > suggestion step by step
              > > on how to build a Microhydro Plant.
              > >
              > > Thank you for your kind attention
              > >
              > > Regards
              > >
              > > Fachri Hamdan
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              > >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              >
              >


              __________________________________________________
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            • nando
              Keith: You need to define the generated voltage and the power to be able to determine the wire for minimum wiring losses. 5 gpm = 0.315 liter/sec and 100 feet
              Message 6 of 20 , Nov 2, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Keith:

                You need to define the generated voltage and the power to be able to determine the wire for minimum wiring losses.

                5 gpm = 0.315 liter/sec and 100 feet = 30.48 meter may produce around 50 watts.

                By the way you are asking, it is clear that you do not have a well defined design and trying to " band aid" .

                If interested, connect to me directly and I help you to set up what you need.

                Where are you located ?.

                For this lower power a Turgo may be the easiest one to build as well the larger power when additional water is available.

                For about 600 feet , close to 200 meters the voltage should be much greater than the load requires, also a good ballast controller to maintain stable generated power.

                the power losses should be calculated to be not greater than 2 to 5 % of the total peak power available.

                Synchronizing to the GRID depends how you want the system done.

                Nando


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: keith flaherty
                To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 3:09 PM
                Subject: [microhydro] Re: Wire sizing


                I have a question for the group. I have a stream and
                have put in a 6" pipe with about 100' of head. The
                stream flows somewhere between 5gpm in summer to more
                than the pipe can handle in the winter. I'd like to
                have a couple of pelton wheel at the outflow to
                accomodate the variable flow.

                So one question is how do I size the wire going back
                to the electrical panel to accomodate for 5k peak
                output. (around 5-600')

                AC vs DC power and what's involved with syncing the Ac
                power if that's the right choice?

                Keith

                --- m bowen <pulsechic@...> wrote:

                > thank you mark. i would definitely be interested in
                > comparing notes as this is our first adventure in
                > hydro. you can email me directly at
                > pulsechic@...
                >
                > marinda
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Mark Drabick
                > To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 10:42 AM
                > Subject: Re: [microhydro] Re: Need Assistance
                >
                >
                > Hi Marinda.........just read your post........i'm
                > in NH and have a microhydro plant running for a
                > number of years....if you want to chat or compare
                > notes about hydro stuff with someone close by let me
                > know.......its always fun to meet someone local
                > doing a hydro project.....mark in NH
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: m bowen
                > To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 7:04 AM
                > Subject: Re: [microhydro] Re: Need Assistance
                >
                > dennis: where are these turbines (pelton/turgo)
                > readily available off the shelf? i ordered one from
                > a solar store in VT 6 weeks ago and it still isn't
                > in. they explained it as a custom job. but if these
                > turbines are readily available on a shelf in new
                > england somewhere please tell me where.
                >
                > thanks, marinda
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Dennis Buller
                > To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:53 AM
                > Subject: Re: [microhydro] Re: Need Assistance
                >
                > Hello Fachri,
                > It depends on the water source.
                > For large, no head rivers I would recommend A PVC,
                > floating undershot wheel with a spiral pump. This is
                > a fairly simple, cheap design that will give you
                > continuous water for Grey water and irrigation.
                > For high volume water situation with head less
                > than 10 foot, I would suggest an Overshot Wheel with
                > a DC generating system. The power generated would go
                > into batteries for DC lighting, water heating, and
                > water pumping.
                > For low volume, high head I would recommend an AC
                > system with Pelton or Turgo turbines, or a
                > water-motor. These are readily available, off the
                > shelf.
                > You will have to decide what your water situation
                > is; what you are trying to accomplish and how much
                > money you have to spend.....
                > -Dennis
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: wae_lagi<mailto:wae_lagi@...>
                > To:
                >
                microhydro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:microhydro@yahoogroups.com>
                >
                > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 3:02 AM
                > Subject: [microhydro] Re: Need Assistance
                >
                > Hello Dennis
                >
                > Thanks for the input. From your information,
                > should i cover about the
                > 3 parts that you mention, or it just a supporting
                > knowledge that i
                > have to know to support the Microhydro Plant. As
                > short as I know,
                > three parts has same basic thing. So, one to
                > another are correlated.
                >
                > Am i right, Please advise?
                >
                > For other member, is there any opinion?
                >
                > Thanks and regards
                >
                > Fachri
                >
                > --- In
                >
                microhydro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:microhydro%40yahoogroups.com>,
                > "Dennis Buller"
                > <wildwaterpower@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Greetings Fachri,
                > > The first thing you must ask yourself is what
                > you are trying to
                > accomplish. Producing electricity is the most
                > complicated form of
                > Microhydro.
                > > For simpler solutions to problems you may have
                > in your area you
                > should look at using hydropower for:
                > > - Pumping Grey-water for septic use.
                > > - Pumping water for irrigation
                > > - Providing pressurized water to run industrial
                > tools (water-motors)
                > > I am not saying the production of electricity is
                > not a worthy
                > endeavor. But it is much more complicated.
                > > The applications listed above will allow you to
                > "jump in" to
                > hydropower with less money, tools and skill.
                > > Please take a look at my web page which lists a
                > great deal of
                > Hydro possibilities.
                > > -Dennis
                > >
                >
                >
                http://www.wildwaterpower.com/contactus.html<http://www.wildwaterpower.com/contactus.html><http://www.wildwaterpower.com/contactus.html<http://wwwwildwaterpower.com/contactus.html>>
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: wae_lagi<mailto:wae_lagi@...>
                > > To:
                >
                microhydro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:microhydro%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:microhydro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:microhydro%40yahoogroups.com>>
                >
                > > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:10 PM
                > > Subject: [microhydro] Need Assistance
                > >
                > >
                > > Dear All
                > >
                > > I am a new person in Microhydro. I need
                > assistance on how to build a
                > > Microhydro Plant from the basic things. I live
                > in Indonesia and i saw
                > > alot of potential place to build a Microhydro
                > plant.
                > > For all the member of groups, please help me a
                > suggestion step by step
                > > on how to build a Microhydro Plant.
                > >
                > > Thank you for your kind attention
                > >
                > > Regards
                > >
                > > Fachri Hamdan
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                > removed]
                > >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                > removed]
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                > removed]
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                > removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                > removed]
                >
                >

                __________________________________________________
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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Manfred Mornhinweg
                Hi Keith, ... It seems to me that a 6 pipe is a little small for 5kW from a 100 head. But I will concentrate on your electrical question. Wire size is based
                Message 7 of 20 , Nov 2, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Keith,

                  > So one question is how do I size the wire going back
                  > to the electrical panel to accomodate for 5k peak
                  > output. (around 5-600')

                  It seems to me that a 6" pipe is a little small for 5kW from a 100'
                  head. But I will concentrate on your electrical question.

                  Wire size is based on two considerations: The wire should not get too
                  warm, and it should nor drop too much voltage. In any long run,
                  typically the latter consideration is the defining one. So, you must
                  decide which voltage you want to use, and how much loss you find
                  acceptable. Then you calculate the current, the allowable voltage drop,
                  and by Ohm's law you get the allowable wire resistance. You divide this
                  by twice the distance from the generator to the house (twice because woy
                  need two wires!), and that gives you the resistance per unit length.
                  With that, you can look up the required wire size on a table, or
                  calculate it using the specific resistance for the wire material, which
                  is .0000000175 Ohm per meter for copper.

                  Here is an example:

                  Let's assume you are in the USA (easy to guess because you are using
                  obsolete units! :-) ), and you will feed 127V into your wire, to get no
                  less than 120V at the panel. This would be close to 6% loss, which
                  should be acceptable.

                  If your turbogenerator gives 5kW, and the power factor is good, then you
                  will have 39.4 amperes. With the voltage drop being 7V, the allowable
                  wire resistance is 0.18 Ohm. With a distance of 200 meters, which means
                  400 meters wire length, your wire must have a resistance no higher than
                  .00045 ohms per meter.

                  Taking the specific resistance for copper, the wire must have a cross
                  section of .000039 square meters, which is 39 square millimeters. That's
                  a wire about 7mm in diameter, if it is solid, or about 8 to 9mm if it is
                  stranded. Translated back into USA-specific units, a 1/4" wire is too
                  thin, 5/16" solid wire should be fine, 3/8" starnded wire should be fine
                  too.

                  As you can see, the wire is thick and costly. You might want to consider
                  using step-up and step-down transformers to use a higher voltage. Or
                  perhaps you can use a split phase generator, transmit the 240V with
                  center tap, and have the two 120V phases at your home. Or perhaps even
                  use three-phase transmission at an even higher voltage.

                  Whenever you double the voltage, you can use a wire of half the diameter
                  (one quarter the cross section and cost) for the same percentual loss!

                  > AC vs DC power

                  This system should be AC, because you need at least standard line
                  voltage, and it might be desirable to use even higher voltage. AC is
                  convenient because it's easy to transform. DC is typically used with
                  lower voltages, for very low power systems.

                  > and what's involved with syncing the Ac
                  > power if that's the right choice?

                  Nando is a specialist in this matter. He will advise you to use one
                  small synchronous generator for the summer machine, and a large
                  asynchronous one for the winter machine, which can self-synchronize to
                  the summer machine. Mu approach instead would be to build separate
                  machines for summer and winter, and use either one or the other. So
                  there is no synchronization necessary.

                  Manfred.

                  ========================
                  Visit my hobby homepage!
                  http://ludens.cl
                  ========================


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • keith flaherty
                  Thanks Manfred; I guess I need to crack open my old electrical books. I appreciate the input. I think according to both you and Nando, I should consider up
                  Message 8 of 20 , Nov 5, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thanks Manfred;

                    I guess I need to crack open my old electrical books.
                    I appreciate the input. I think according to both you
                    and Nando, I should consider up sizing my pipe. Right
                    now I have the trench open so maybe I need 8" pipe
                    instead of 6" to get to 5kw.

                    I'm conversing with Nando and others to get the pipe
                    sizing part of it figured out. My main concern is
                    spending the money and justifying it to my wife. Oh
                    and not burying something that is too small.

                    Keith
                    --- Manfred Mornhinweg <mmornhin@...> wrote:

                    > Hi Keith,
                    >
                    > > So one question is how do I size the wire going
                    > back
                    > > to the electrical panel to accomodate for 5k peak
                    > > output. (around 5-600')
                    >
                    > It seems to me that a 6" pipe is a little small for
                    > 5kW from a 100'
                    > head. But I will concentrate on your electrical
                    > question.
                    >
                    > Wire size is based on two considerations: The wire
                    > should not get too
                    > warm, and it should nor drop too much voltage. In
                    > any long run,
                    > typically the latter consideration is the defining
                    > one. So, you must
                    > decide which voltage you want to use, and how much
                    > loss you find
                    > acceptable. Then you calculate the current, the
                    > allowable voltage drop,
                    > and by Ohm's law you get the allowable wire
                    > resistance. You divide this
                    > by twice the distance from the generator to the
                    > house (twice because woy
                    > need two wires!), and that gives you the resistance
                    > per unit length.
                    > With that, you can look up the required wire size on
                    > a table, or
                    > calculate it using the specific resistance for the
                    > wire material, which
                    > is .0000000175 Ohm per meter for copper.
                    >
                    > Here is an example:
                    >
                    > Let's assume you are in the USA (easy to guess
                    > because you are using
                    > obsolete units! :-) ), and you will feed 127V into
                    > your wire, to get no
                    > less than 120V at the panel. This would be close to
                    > 6% loss, which
                    > should be acceptable.
                    >
                    > If your turbogenerator gives 5kW, and the power
                    > factor is good, then you
                    > will have 39.4 amperes. With the voltage drop being
                    > 7V, the allowable
                    > wire resistance is 0.18 Ohm. With a distance of 200
                    > meters, which means
                    > 400 meters wire length, your wire must have a
                    > resistance no higher than
                    > .00045 ohms per meter.
                    >
                    > Taking the specific resistance for copper, the wire
                    > must have a cross
                    > section of .000039 square meters, which is 39 square
                    > millimeters. That's
                    > a wire about 7mm in diameter, if it is solid, or
                    > about 8 to 9mm if it is
                    > stranded. Translated back into USA-specific units, a
                    > 1/4" wire is too
                    > thin, 5/16" solid wire should be fine, 3/8" starnded
                    > wire should be fine
                    > too.
                    >
                    > As you can see, the wire is thick and costly. You
                    > might want to consider
                    > using step-up and step-down transformers to use a
                    > higher voltage. Or
                    > perhaps you can use a split phase generator,
                    > transmit the 240V with
                    > center tap, and have the two 120V phases at your
                    > home. Or perhaps even
                    > use three-phase transmission at an even higher
                    > voltage.
                    >
                    > Whenever you double the voltage, you can use a wire
                    > of half the diameter
                    > (one quarter the cross section and cost) for the
                    > same percentual loss!
                    >
                    > > AC vs DC power
                    >
                    > This system should be AC, because you need at least
                    > standard line
                    > voltage, and it might be desirable to use even
                    > higher voltage. AC is
                    > convenient because it's easy to transform. DC is
                    > typically used with
                    > lower voltages, for very low power systems.
                    >
                    > > and what's involved with syncing the Ac
                    > > power if that's the right choice?
                    >
                    > Nando is a specialist in this matter. He will advise
                    > you to use one
                    > small synchronous generator for the summer machine,
                    > and a large
                    > asynchronous one for the winter machine, which can
                    > self-synchronize to
                    > the summer machine. Mu approach instead would be to
                    > build separate
                    > machines for summer and winter, and use either one
                    > or the other. So
                    > there is no synchronization necessary.
                    >
                    > Manfred.
                    >
                    > ========================
                    > Visit my hobby homepage!
                    > http://ludens.cl
                    > ========================
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                    > removed]
                    >
                    >


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