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[microhydro] Re: Propeller turbine

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  • microhydro@dplus.net
    ... Please e-mail me the specs on the small props you build - I too build a few turbines - what is the source of your designs? please send Data - I would like
    Message 1 of 29 , Nov 3, 1999
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      >PETER
      Please e-mail me the specs on the small props you build - I too build
      a few turbines - what is the source of your designs? please send Data -
      I would like to correspond and cooperate to learn.
      Best Ron
    • Keith Presnell
      Please excuse me butting in. I was attracted by you mention of propellor design. My name is keith Presnell and I recently joined this discussion group. I
      Message 2 of 29 , Nov 3, 1999
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        Please excuse me butting in. I was attracted by you mention of propellor
        design.

        My name is keith Presnell and I recently joined this discussion group. I
        work at the Northern Territory of Australia's Centre for Energy Research,
        where over the last few years we have run trials on a small "run of the
        river" turbine that delivers around 2kW power in a 2m/s current. It has a
        2m diameter propellor. However, the focus of our work has been more on the
        generator and controller development than the propellor design.

        I was aware of the work being done by IT Power in GB, but had not come
        across too much in the way of field demonstrations elsewhere. I would be
        delighted to hear that there is a crowd of like minded souls, and would
        welcome the opportunity to swap notes with those of you who are treading a
        similar path.

        My details are
        Keith Presnell
        Ph: 61 8 8946 6883
        Fax: 61 8 8946 6993
        E-mail keith.presnell@...

        Regards,

        Keith

        At 05:57 3/11/99 -0800, you wrote:
        >
        >>PETER
        > Please e-mail me the specs on the small props you build - I too build
        >a few turbines - what is the source of your designs? please send Data -
        >I would like to correspond and cooperate to learn.
        > Best Ron
        >
        >
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      • Ghanashyam Ranjitkar
        Message 3 of 29 , Nov 3, 1999
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        • Mehrashk Meidani
          Hi I was engaged in designing a small hydro project in Iran. I would be happy if I can help. regards Mehrashk Meidani (M.Sc.) Geotech. Eng. Civil Engrg. Dept.
          Message 4 of 29 , Nov 4, 1999
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            Hi
            I was engaged in designing a small hydro project in Iran.
            I would be happy if I can help.
            regards

            Mehrashk Meidani (M.Sc.)
            Geotech. Eng.
            Civil Engrg. Dept.
            Shiraz University
            Shiraz, Iran




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          • Andy Brown
            Dear Keith, There are river current turbine pumps made near Delhi. I don t have a contact for them but the Ledakh Ecology Centre bought some - I could put you
            Message 5 of 29 , Jan 7, 2000
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              Dear Keith,

              There are river current turbine pumps made near Delhi. I don't have a
              contact for them but the Ledakh Ecology Centre bought some - I could put you
              in touch with them.

              More accessible is the UK initiative. Peter Garman has been building River
              Current Turbines
              in Sudan and UK for many years and a battery charging version is currently
              being tested in Peru by UK wind and solar company Marlec. More info on
              www.marlec.co.uk

              Regards

              Andy Brown.
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Keith Presnell [mailto:keith.presnell@...]
              > Sent: 03 November 1999 23:24
              > To: microhydro@egroups.com
              > Subject: [microhydro] Re: Propeller turbine
              >
              >
              > Please excuse me butting in. I was attracted by you mention of propellor
              > design.
              >
              > My name is keith Presnell and I recently joined this discussion group. I
              > work at the Northern Territory of Australia's Centre for Energy Research,
              > where over the last few years we have run trials on a small "run of the
              > river" turbine that delivers around 2kW power in a 2m/s current. It has a
              > 2m diameter propellor. However, the focus of our work has been
              > more on the
              > generator and controller development than the propellor design.
              >
              > I was aware of the work being done by IT Power in GB, but had not come
              > across too much in the way of field demonstrations elsewhere. I would be
              > delighted to hear that there is a crowd of like minded souls, and would
              > welcome the opportunity to swap notes with those of you who are treading a
              > similar path.
              >
              > My details are
              > Keith Presnell
              > Ph: 61 8 8946 6883
              > Fax: 61 8 8946 6993
              > E-mail keith.presnell@...
              >
              > Regards,
              >
              > Keith
              >
              > At 05:57 3/11/99 -0800, you wrote:
              > >
              > >>PETER
              > > Please e-mail me the specs on the small props you build - I
              > too build
              > >a few turbines - what is the source of your designs? please send Data -
              > >I would like to correspond and cooperate to learn.
              > > Best Ron
              > >
              > >
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            • CLAY HETT
              I ve seen a water wheel turning from creek power. Attached was rear end of a vehicle, then through the tranny, worked in reverse, sped up rpms to usable,
              Message 6 of 29 , Jan 7, 2000
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                I've seen a water wheel turning from creek power. Attached was rear end of
                a vehicle, then through the tranny, worked in reverse, sped up rpms to
                usable, I'm considering this system myself, not sure of ice in the winter,
                maybe it would have to be housed?? Clay Hett
                -----Original Message-----
                From: BNASNYDER@... <BNASNYDER@...>
                To: microhydro@egroups.com <microhydro@egroups.com>
                Date: Saturday, January 08, 2000 1:01 PM
                Subject: [microhydro] Re: Propeller turbine


                >Hi, My name is Bob Snyder, and I am located at Columbus, Ohio. I've been
                >enjoying the information from this group for several weeks, and now I must
                >put in my two bits. The Marlec River Flow Propeller Turbine comes about
                close
                >to what I had in mind, but I hoped to find a system that would not depend
                on
                >a battery system to operate. A year ago I spent a week in a small
                village
                >along the Curari River in Ecuador, and got the idea that that river should
                >produce enough energy to supply the village with enough power to operate a
                >small shop with electrical tools, a small clinic, and maybe some lighting
                for
                >the homes. They do have a solar powered charger for a small 12-volt
                supply-
                >very limited. Their dental equipment is powered by a generator connected
                to
                >an excersize bicycle. I have a background as electrical contractor, where
                I
                >have installed stand-by alternators for farmers to get emergency power from
                >their tractor PTO. These units ranged from 5 KW to 15- or 20 KW, depending
                >on how much power they needed to keep their dairys and other devices
                >operating.
                >
                >I started dreaming of a floating platform and a water wheel driving the
                >generator, perhaps belt-driven and geared up to whatever ratio to get the
                >RPMs needed to produce the power. Something like a Paddle-Wheeler
                riverboat
                >in reverse. I would size the wheel with enough paddle surface and leverage
                >needed to get the required power. It seems like all the experts in the
                >field speak of turbines, or over-shot wheels to get the power from the
                water.
                >I would like for someone to tell me if it is at all feasable to consider
                this
                >design. I do not have access to similar facilities to test it, and thought
                >that perhaps it has been tried and proven either right or wrong. I do not
                >have the expertise to know how to calculate the available power from water
                >flow rate, paddle surface, and wheel radius. If I were to do it, it would
                be
                >entirely experimental and whatever looks like it should work. If anything
                >like this has ever been tried or tested, I would like to know. If it is
                >proven to be out of the question, I'll shift to some other ways to
                accomplish
                >the project.
                >
                >I would appreciate any information that might be available. Thanks.
                >
                >Bob Snyder
                >
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              • BNASNYDER@aol.com
                Hi, My name is Bob Snyder, and I am located at Columbus, Ohio. I ve been enjoying the information from this group for several weeks, and now I must put in my
                Message 7 of 29 , Jan 8, 2000
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                  Hi, My name is Bob Snyder, and I am located at Columbus, Ohio. I've been
                  enjoying the information from this group for several weeks, and now I must
                  put in my two bits. The Marlec River Flow Propeller Turbine comes about close
                  to what I had in mind, but I hoped to find a system that would not depend on
                  a battery system to operate. A year ago I spent a week in a small village
                  along the Curari River in Ecuador, and got the idea that that river should
                  produce enough energy to supply the village with enough power to operate a
                  small shop with electrical tools, a small clinic, and maybe some lighting for
                  the homes. They do have a solar powered charger for a small 12-volt supply-
                  very limited. Their dental equipment is powered by a generator connected to
                  an excersize bicycle. I have a background as electrical contractor, where I
                  have installed stand-by alternators for farmers to get emergency power from
                  their tractor PTO. These units ranged from 5 KW to 15- or 20 KW, depending
                  on how much power they needed to keep their dairys and other devices
                  operating.

                  I started dreaming of a floating platform and a water wheel driving the
                  generator, perhaps belt-driven and geared up to whatever ratio to get the
                  RPMs needed to produce the power. Something like a Paddle-Wheeler riverboat
                  in reverse. I would size the wheel with enough paddle surface and leverage
                  needed to get the required power. It seems like all the experts in the
                  field speak of turbines, or over-shot wheels to get the power from the water.
                  I would like for someone to tell me if it is at all feasable to consider this
                  design. I do not have access to similar facilities to test it, and thought
                  that perhaps it has been tried and proven either right or wrong. I do not
                  have the expertise to know how to calculate the available power from water
                  flow rate, paddle surface, and wheel radius. If I were to do it, it would be
                  entirely experimental and whatever looks like it should work. If anything
                  like this has ever been tried or tested, I would like to know. If it is
                  proven to be out of the question, I'll shift to some other ways to accomplish
                  the project.

                  I would appreciate any information that might be available. Thanks.

                  Bob Snyder
                • George Longden
                  Greetings: In response to Bob Snyder s post, I have been dreaming of a paddle wheeler in reverse for over eight years now. I have a unit in the river by our
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jan 8, 2000
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                    Greetings:

                    In response to Bob Snyder's post, I have been dreaming of a 'paddle wheeler
                    in reverse' for over eight years now. I have a unit in the river by our
                    house that is functional; the problem now is that the river is freezing up
                    and as a result, the paddle wheel assembly is not turning. I can tell you
                    right now Bob, it is doable, but plan to spend big $ to make it happen. I
                    have had much of the structure fabricated from aluminium, and plan to use
                    an old 48 V generator from an old Jacobs wind Turbine. If you wish further
                    particulars, please contact me directly.

                    George Longden

                    ______________________________________________________________________________

                    "You are what you think you are - attitude is everything"

                    From the Mac G3 PowerBook of George Longden, (glongden@...)

                    Work (250) 442 0211
                    Home (250) 442 5653
                    Fax (250) 442 0202
                  • Richard Raucina
                    ... From: To: Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2000 1:01 PM Subject: [microhydro] Re: Propeller turbine ... riverboat
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jan 8, 2000
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                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: <BNASNYDER@...>
                      To: <microhydro@egroups.com>
                      Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2000 1:01 PM
                      Subject: [microhydro] Re: Propeller turbine


                      >
                      > I started dreaming of a floating platform and a water wheel driving the
                      > generator, perhaps belt-driven and geared up to whatever ratio to get the
                      > RPMs needed to produce the power. Something like a Paddle-Wheeler
                      riverboat
                      > in reverse> I would appreciate any information that might be available.
                      Thanks.
                      >
                      > Bob Snyder
                      >
                      >

                      I have seen several such devices on the web, just spend some time searching
                      around. All of these are just breaking very old ground - there were so many
                      paddle wheel floating mills and pumping devices in London and Paris a few
                      centuries ago, that they became a hazard to navigation and were the source
                      of much litigation. I think it was called the "Marly wheel" for pumping
                      water in Paris- a huge installation, the largest paddle wheels built. Have
                      a look at "Stronger than a hundred men" by Reynolds

                      Rick
                    • Windrunner14@aol.com
                      Hii can some one help me with home power Hydro Power thank you
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jan 8, 2000
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                        Hii can some one help me with home power Hydro Power thank you
                      • Peter Ruyter
                        Hi Bob. In former Jugoslavia and Bosnia at the last uggly civilwar I saw lot of very small floating plattforms moored in the river and conected to batterypack
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jan 8, 2000
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                          Hi Bob.

                          In former Jugoslavia and Bosnia at the last uggly civilwar I saw lot of
                          very small floating plattforms moored in the river and conected to
                          batterypack by a cable. Giving enogh energy for a radio and some bulps.
                          There was diffrent sulotions of weels. Some simple made by woods and some
                          where old radial airfanes very similar to the bankiturbineweels. It works.
                          But very low level of energy.
                          In the long run I think you shall take a walkalong the riverside and try to
                          find out a place with some little head. Give me 2 meter head and you will
                          have up to 150-160 000 kWh/year.
                          If you want moore usefull power it will cost in steel, brass and stainless
                          togther with planning,concreat and work.
                          All the best!
                          Peter

                          Peter Ruyter
                          Cargo and Kraft Turbin AB
                          S-739 92 SKINNSKATTEBERG
                          SWEDEN
                          Super-low-head-kaplanturbines.
                          2-10 meters
                          235-1200 mm
                          www.cargo-kraft.se
                          Phone: +46 222 280 80
                          Fax: +46 222 280 79
                          Vivas-crescas-floreas!
                        • Max Enfield
                          ... Bob, The power of water flowing past the swept area of turbine or paddle blades is given by: W = 0.5 x cube(V) x A where W is power in kW, V is velocity
                          Message 12 of 29 , Jan 9, 2000
                          • 0 Attachment
                            BNASNYDER@... wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi, My name is Bob Snyder, and I am located at Columbus, Ohio. ..
                            > I started dreaming of a floating platform and a water wheel driving the
                            > generator, perhaps belt-driven and geared up to whatever ratio to get the
                            > RPMs needed to produce the power. Something like a Paddle-Wheeler riverboat
                            > in reverse. ... I do not have the expertise to know how to calculate the available power from water
                            > flow rate, paddle surface, and wheel radius. ... I would appreciate any information that might be available.
                            >
                            > Bob Snyder

                            Bob,

                            The power of water flowing past the swept area of turbine or paddle
                            blades is given by:
                            W = 0.5 x cube(V) x A where W is power in kW, V is velocity in m/s and
                            A is swept area in sq. m.

                            In May last year I posted a note to this group about the efficiency of
                            three commercially available floating or trawled propellor turbines
                            based on published performance figures. The peak efficiency ranged from
                            10% to 20%. One of them was the Tyson turbine
                            [http://www.ozemail.com.au/~tysonturbine/%5d.

                            Taking, for example, a value of 10% overall efficiency the swept area
                            that will be required to generate 1kW is:
                            20sq m. for a flow of 1m/s, 2.5m for a flow of 2m/s and 0.74sq m. for
                            a flow of 3m/sec. Note that these values are for the electricity that
                            is generated - there will be significant losses in delivering the power
                            in a usable form to the loads.

                            I intuitively suspect that edge effects are important, with the water
                            trying to go around the edge of the swept area if possible. Hence the
                            perimeter:area ratio of the swept area should be kept small. Propellor
                            turbines have the advantage here, because having a circular swept area
                            this ratio is the smallest possible. A paddle wheel device has a
                            further efficiency disadvantage because it operates near the surface and
                            experiences losses due to turbulence at the surface.

                            In the absence of any better estimate therefore I would put 10% as the
                            upper limit to the efficiency achievable with a paddle wheel. Try it!.
                            Even if you get only 5% efficiency, that's something to feel good
                            about.

                            Regards,

                            Max Enfield
                            Planetary Power
                          • Keith Presnell
                            Thanks Andy, We were in touch with the UK guys swapping notes, when we were working on our tidal generator. I am impressed by the commercial maturity of the
                            Message 13 of 29 , Jan 9, 2000
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                              Thanks Andy,

                              We were in touch with the UK guys swapping notes, when we were working on
                              our tidal generator.

                              I am impressed by the commercial maturity of the Marlec turbine.

                              Regards

                              Keith Presnell

                              At 14:50 7/01/00 +0000, you wrote:
                              >Dear Keith,
                              >
                              >There are river current turbine pumps made near Delhi. I don't have a
                              >contact for them but the Ledakh Ecology Centre bought some - I could put you
                              >in touch with them.
                              >
                              >More accessible is the UK initiative. Peter Garman has been building River
                              >Current Turbines
                              >in Sudan and UK for many years and a battery charging version is currently
                              >being tested in Peru by UK wind and solar company Marlec. More info on
                              >www.marlec.co.uk
                              >
                              >Regards
                              >
                              >Andy Brown.
                              >> -----Original Message-----
                              >> From: Keith Presnell [mailto:keith.presnell@...]
                              >> Sent: 03 November 1999 23:24
                              >> To: microhydro@egroups.com
                              >> Subject: [microhydro] Re: Propeller turbine
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> Please excuse me butting in. I was attracted by you mention of propellor
                              >> design.
                              >>
                              >> My name is keith Presnell and I recently joined this discussion group. I
                              >> work at the Northern Territory of Australia's Centre for Energy Research,
                              >> where over the last few years we have run trials on a small "run of the
                              >> river" turbine that delivers around 2kW power in a 2m/s current. It has a
                              >> 2m diameter propellor. However, the focus of our work has been
                              >> more on the
                              >> generator and controller development than the propellor design.
                              >>
                              >> I was aware of the work being done by IT Power in GB, but had not come
                              >> across too much in the way of field demonstrations elsewhere. I would be
                              >> delighted to hear that there is a crowd of like minded souls, and would
                              >> welcome the opportunity to swap notes with those of you who are treading a
                              >> similar path.
                              >>
                              >> My details are
                              >> Keith Presnell
                              >> Ph: 61 8 8946 6883
                              >> Fax: 61 8 8946 6993
                              >> E-mail keith.presnell@...
                              >>
                              >> Regards,
                              >>
                              >> Keith
                              >>
                              >> At 05:57 3/11/99 -0800, you wrote:
                              >> >
                              >> >>PETER
                              >> > Please e-mail me the specs on the small props you build - I
                              >> too build
                              >> >a few turbines - what is the source of your designs? please send Data -
                              >> >I would like to correspond and cooperate to learn.
                              >> > Best Ron
                              >> >
                              >> >
                              >> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              >> >More information on micro hydropower at http://start.at/microhydro
                              >> >Microhydro eGroup page at http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/hydro/egroup
                              >> >To unsubscribe: http://www.eGroups.com/info/help/main/unsubscribe.html
                              >> >
                              >> >-- Check out your eGroup's private Chat room
                              >> >-- http://www.egroups.com/ChatPage?listName=microhydro&m=1
                              >> >
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                              >> Microhydro eGroup page at http://www.itc.nl/~klunne/hydro/egroup
                              >> To unsubscribe: http://www.eGroups.com/info/help/main/unsubscribe.html
                              >>
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                              >> -- http://www.egroups.com/docvault/microhydro/?m=1
                              >>
                              >>
                              >
                              >
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                            • Denis Vincent
                              Thanks Peter to make this important remark. I completely agree with your advice. It is always better to have a small head, as well from an economical than from
                              Message 14 of 29 , Jan 9, 2000
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                                Thanks Peter to make this important remark. I completely agree with your
                                advice. It is always better to have a small head, as well from an economical
                                than from an energetic point of view.

                                Only the head is paying !!!

                                Without head, the efficiency of the system will be 10% to 20 % max. If you
                                use a waterwheel fed by the top, the efficiency will be at least 70 % (if
                                well done). If you use a small turbine, the efficiency will be at least 80%.

                                If all the old floating mills disappeared from European rivers, it is not
                                only because of the ships. It is mainly because the power supplied was not
                                sufficient.

                                Remember that the turbines have been developed in order to make more power
                                with less water (or in other words to have a better efficiency).

                                Regards,

                                Vincent Denis.

                                MHyLab - 1354 Montcherand - Switzerland
                                Tel : + 41 24 442 86 20 Fax : + 41 24 441 36 54
                                e-mail : denisv@...
                                http://www.ambios.ch/mhylab
                                http://www.smallhydro.ch



                                > -----Message d'origine-----
                                > De : Peter Ruyter [mailto:turbin@...]
                                > Envoye : dimanche, 9. janvier 2000 06:52
                                > A : microhydro@egroups.com
                                > Objet : [microhydro] Re: Propeller turbine
                                >
                                >
                                > Hi Bob.
                                >
                                > In former Jugoslavia and Bosnia at the last uggly civilwar I
                                > saw lot of
                                > very small floating plattforms moored in the river and conected to
                                > batterypack by a cable. Giving enogh energy for a radio and
                                > some bulps.
                                > There was diffrent sulotions of weels. Some simple made by
                                > woods and some
                                > where old radial airfanes very similar to the
                                > bankiturbineweels. It works.
                                > But very low level of energy.
                                > In the long run I think you shall take a walkalong the
                                > riverside and try to
                                > find out a place with some little head. Give me 2 meter head
                                > and you will
                                > have up to 150-160 000 kWh/year.
                                > If you want moore usefull power it will cost in steel, brass
                                > and stainless
                                > togther with planning,concreat and work.
                                > All the best!
                                > Peter
                                >
                                > Peter Ruyter
                                > Cargo and Kraft Turbin AB
                                > S-739 92 SKINNSKATTEBERG
                                > SWEDEN
                                > Super-low-head-kaplanturbines.
                                > 2-10 meters
                                > 235-1200 mm
                                > www.cargo-kraft.se
                                > Phone: +46 222 280 80
                                > Fax: +46 222 280 79
                                > Vivas-crescas-floreas!
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --------------------------------------------------------------
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                              • Peter Ruyter
                                Hi VD and all. Back to very often coming talk about waterweels. I understand the intrest, a mix of beutyfull sight when the old one is turning and a little
                                Message 15 of 29 , Jan 11, 2000
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                                  Hi VD and all.
                                  Back to very often coming talk about waterweels. I understand the intrest,
                                  a mix of beutyfull sight when the old one is turning and a little naive
                                  thinking of very-easy-to-build.
                                  I own and live 25 meters from a perfect weelerplace. 4,7 meter head and
                                  ruffly 1,2 m3/s/year. Already at 1580 the first power was taken from this
                                  site. Untill 1890 a big weel was driving the "mumling"-hammer. A coloss of
                                  3 ton lifted 60 cm two times per rev of the weel.
                                  When the hammer was free from the liftingforce it smashed down at a glowing
                                  piec of iron, 120 kg glowing iron, the sparks spraying around the strong
                                  men who turned the piece a half turn every time the hammer rammed untill he
                                  have a square metal rod. After that the metal was hammered with a fast
                                  smashing hammer to shafts or other comercial things for export out of this
                                  dark and cold area.
                                  Not fare from here we have a sort of museum with same hammer. Restored. The
                                  rebuilding of weels shaft and the weel was a tuf work. She is now in order
                                  to run, but the problem, thats my point, everytime we run the coloss we
                                  have to adjust shaft, bearing and other things.
                                  Not any time we have runned this one without tremendous problem. In this
                                  case it maybe becaus she is so big, brestweel of 4 meter diameter and 3
                                  meter wide. The shaft is constructed of loggs bounded togther with heavy
                                  steelband every 25 cm. The shaft is 70-75 cm diameter. Its look very heavy
                                  but it is very week when we comes to talk about continusly service. As a
                                  powerrecorce there we want to run up to 7500 hourers per year without
                                  trubble.
                                  One thing moore, she looks very easy to build. Nice woodwork! Pick the
                                  wood at the barn and put it togther . Lift on place and run! Everybody is
                                  very welcome over here at the summertime, we have to replace some paddels
                                  and need workhelps. We use electric tools and modern lifters, its a hell of
                                  a jobb.
                                  There is a reason why I have a kaplan at my site and there is another one
                                  outside of the museumplace to. Running 8000 hourers every year without any
                                  major problem.
                                  I dont mean to kill enybodys enthosiasm, but I will have a promise, save
                                  some spare-energy for building or restore a turbine after the weelswork.
                                  Call me a boring idiot, its OK.
                                  All the best, keep splashing!
                                  Regards
                                  Peter


                                  Peter Ruyter
                                  Cargo and Kraft Turbin AB
                                  S-739 92 SKINNSKATTEBERG
                                  SWEDEN
                                  Super-low-head-kaplanturbines.
                                  2-10 meters
                                  235-1200 mm
                                  www.cargo-kraft.se
                                  Phone: +46 222 280 80
                                  Fax: +46 222 280 79
                                  Vivas-crescas-floreas!
                                • Sylvain Genest
                                  Hi group! I have a question: Maybe it s a stupid idea ... don t hesitate to tell me. Is it possible to make a good turbine using some kind of boat propeller ?
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Feb 10, 2000
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                                    Hi group!

                                    I have a question:
                                    Maybe it's a stupid idea ... don't hesitate to tell me.

                                    Is it possible to make a good turbine using some kind of boat propeller
                                    ?
                                    Do you think the efficiency would be greater than 50 % ?

                                    What kind of propeller would give the best result for head between 2 &
                                    5 meters ?

                                    Is there another kind of propeller that would be better than a boat
                                    propeller ?


                                    Thank you to all of you.
                                  • Peter Ruyter
                                    Hi Sylvain! We have some ideas! Need figures and facts. All the best, Peter Ruyter Cargo&Kraft Turbin AB S-739 92 SKINNSKATTEBERG SWEDEN Phone: +46 222 280 80
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Feb 12, 2000
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hi Sylvain!

                                      We have some ideas!
                                      Need figures and facts.

                                      All the best,
                                      Peter Ruyter
                                      Cargo&Kraft Turbin AB
                                      S-739 92 SKINNSKATTEBERG
                                      SWEDEN
                                      Phone: +46 222 280 80
                                      Fax: +46 222 280 79
                                      www.cargo-kraft.se
                                      "Stand-alone"-system 2 kW-150 kW
                                      Super-low-head-kaplanturbines.
                                      2-10 meters, 235-1200 mm
                                      Vivas-crescas-floreas!
                                    • Herbert Hoedl
                                      Hi Sylvian, If you go to www.jademountain.com they sell propellerturbines which work like a windturbine but you hang it into flowing water or outside your
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Feb 12, 2000
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                                        Hi Sylvian, If you go to www.jademountain.com they sell propellerturbines
                                        which work like a windturbine but you hang it into flowing water or outside
                                        your sailboat.
                                        With best regards,
                                        Herby


                                        >From: "Sylvain Genest" <genests@...>
                                        >Reply-To: microhydro@egroups.com
                                        >To: microhydro@...
                                        >Subject: [microhydro] Propeller turbine
                                        >Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 16:57:09 -0800
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >Hi group!
                                        >
                                        >I have a question:
                                        >Maybe it's a stupid idea ... don't hesitate to tell me.
                                        >
                                        >Is it possible to make a good turbine using some kind of boat propeller
                                        >?
                                        >Do you think the efficiency would be greater than 50 % ?
                                        >
                                        >What kind of propeller would give the best result for head between 2 &
                                        >5 meters ?
                                        >
                                        >Is there another kind of propeller that would be better than a boat
                                        >propeller ?
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >Thank you to all of you.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
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                                        >More information on micro hydropower at http://come.to/microhydro
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                                        ______________________________________________________
                                      • Mary Hamilton
                                        Sylvain, The Aquair made in England is the submersible propeller driven turbine we install occasionally, Even that needs to be mounted inside a 15 pipe to be
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Feb 14, 2000
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                                          Sylvain,
                                          The Aquair made in England is the submersible propeller driven turbine
                                          we install occasionally, Even that needs to be mounted inside a 15" pipe
                                          to be most efficient in most sites. It isn't nearly as efficient as we
                                          would like producing a maximum of 100 watts for about $1500.00, and
                                          requiring 2 feet of head and 1200 gpm. Mary
                                        • Denis Vincent
                                          Mary, I think that the price is really expensive USD 1,500 for 100 W = USD 15,000 per kW ! For this price you can have a more efficient turbine. Best regards,
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Feb 15, 2000
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Mary,

                                            I think that the price is really expensive USD 1,500 for 100 W = USD 15,000
                                            per kW !

                                            For this price you can have a more efficient turbine.

                                            Best regards,

                                            Vincent Denis

                                            MHyLab - 1354 Montcherand - Switzerland
                                            Tel : + 41 24 442 86 20 Fax : + 41 24 441 36 54
                                            e-mail : denisv@...
                                            http://www.ambios.ch/mhylab
                                            http://www.smallhydro.ch



                                            > -----Message d'origine-----
                                            > De : Mary Hamilton [mailto:solplex@...]
                                            > Envoye : lundi, 14. fevrier 2000 11:26
                                            > A : microhydro@...
                                            > Objet : [microhydro] Re: Propeller turbine
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Sylvain,
                                            > The Aquair made in England is the submersible propeller
                                            > driven turbine
                                            > we install occasionally, Even that needs to be mounted inside
                                            > a 15" pipe
                                            > to be most efficient in most sites. It isn't nearly as efficient as we
                                            > would like producing a maximum of 100 watts for about $1500.00, and
                                            > requiring 2 feet of head and 1200 gpm. Mary
                                            >
                                          • Mary Hamilton
                                            Denise That was my point, the aquair is not a real bargain but what do you use with 18 to 2 ft of head, 1200 gpm. If you have the better solution we are sure
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Feb 15, 2000
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                                              Denise
                                              That was my point, the aquair is not a real bargain but what do you use
                                              with 18" to 2 ft of head, 1200 gpm. If you have the better solution we
                                              are sure listening. It is our turbine of last resort. No powerline
                                              nearby, no solar or wind (say in a canyon) and no drop on the creek of
                                              the property owner. We do have clients who are tickled pink for the
                                              aquair in this very situation but we are always looking for a better
                                              answer. I'll also say this for the aquair, it is a tough unit, it can
                                              take it's knocks and keep on producing. Maybe sometimes the slow horse
                                              wins the race. 1200 watt hrs a day is still better than running a
                                              generator for some folks. Mary
                                            • Denis Vincent
                                              Dear Mary, I completely agree when you say that it is better to run a 100 W turbine than a generator. What I wanted to point out is that this type of turbine
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Feb 15, 2000
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                                                Dear Mary,

                                                I completely agree when you say that it is better to run a 100 W turbine
                                                than a generator.

                                                What I wanted to point out is that this type of turbine is worth when the
                                                price per kWh is not important, because you need to have electrical power
                                                without any grid in the area.

                                                In Switzerland, we have chalets in the Alps with PV panels to provide
                                                electricity. The price per kWh is very high, but we don't care, because
                                                there is no other mean to have power.

                                                I only wanted to point out that if you have the choice (and a site) you
                                                could find some turbines for such a price per kW. (for instance Peter
                                                Ruyter's turbines).

                                                I am really sorry if you understood that I despised the small turbine you
                                                were speaking about. It was really not the goal of my message. Perhaps was
                                                my previous message too laconic (due to a too rapid answer!).

                                                Best regards,

                                                Vincent Denis

                                                MHyLab - 1354 Montcherand - Switzerland
                                                Tel : + 41 24 442 86 20 Fax : + 41 24 441 36 54
                                                e-mail : denisv@...
                                                http://www.ambios.ch/mhylab
                                                http://www.smallhydro.ch



                                                > -----Message d'origine-----
                                                > De : Mary Hamilton [mailto:solplex@...]
                                                > Envoye : mardi, 15. fevrier 2000 16:19
                                                > A : microhydro@egroups.com
                                                > Objet : [microhydro] Re: Propeller turbine
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Denise
                                                > That was my point, the aquair is not a real bargain but what
                                                > do you use
                                                > with 18" to 2 ft of head, 1200 gpm. If you have the better solution we
                                                > are sure listening. It is our turbine of last resort. No powerline
                                                > nearby, no solar or wind (say in a canyon) and no drop on the creek of
                                                > the property owner. We do have clients who are tickled pink for the
                                                > aquair in this very situation but we are always looking for a better
                                                > answer. I'll also say this for the aquair, it is a tough unit, it can
                                                > take it's knocks and keep on producing. Maybe sometimes the slow horse
                                                > wins the race. 1200 watt hrs a day is still better than running a
                                                > generator for some folks. Mary
                                              • Mary Hamilton
                                                Denis We are familiar with peter s turbine, beautiful piece of equipment,but not to work at 18 to 2 feet of head. Mary
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Feb 17, 2000
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                                                  Denis
                                                  We are familiar with peter's turbine, beautiful piece of equipment,but
                                                  not to work at 18" to 2 feet of head.
                                                  Mary
                                                • Peter Ruyter
                                                  Dear Mary, its hurt me, it hurts me so much, but I must agree with you. But it is hard, belive me. 60-70 cm is .......little too low, but give me some time.
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Feb 17, 2000
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Dear Mary, its hurt me, it hurts me so much, but I must agree with you. But
                                                    it is hard, belive me.
                                                    60-70 cm is .......little too low, but give me some time.
                                                    Thanks for yor opinion at our turbines, I will tell my wife Sara, she will
                                                    be glad!
                                                    At the moment we need 1,5 meter, maybe 1 meter for the 300 semikaplan.


                                                    All the best,
                                                    Peter Ruyter
                                                    Cargo&Kraft Turbin AB
                                                    S-739 92 SKINNSKATTEBERG
                                                    SWEDEN
                                                    Phone: +46 222 280 80
                                                    Fax: +46 222 280 79
                                                    www.cargo-kraft.se
                                                    "Stand-alone"-system 2 kW-150 kW
                                                    Super-low-head-kaplanturbines.
                                                    2-10 meters, 235-1200 mm
                                                    Vivas-crescas-floreas!
                                                  • Denis Vincent
                                                    That is why I said that for such application the price per kW and per kWh was not the main topic and that a turbine as you were speaking about could be
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Feb 18, 2000
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      That is why I said that for such application the price per kW and per kWh
                                                      was not the main topic and that a turbine as you were speaking about could
                                                      be suitable in this case.

                                                      I only said that in case of a higher head and a power of more than 1 kW, you
                                                      can find turbines with a price per kW smaller than USD 15,000.

                                                      best regards,

                                                      Vincent Denis

                                                      MHyLab - 1354 Montcherand - Switzerland
                                                      Tel : + 41 24 442 86 20 Fax : + 41 24 441 36 54
                                                      e-mail : denisv@...
                                                      http://www.ambios.ch/mhylab
                                                      http://www.smallhydro.ch



                                                      > -----Message d'origine-----
                                                      > De : Mary Hamilton [mailto:solplex@...]
                                                      > Envoye : jeudi, 17. fevrier 2000 17:57
                                                      > A : microhydro@egroups.com
                                                      > Objet : [microhydro] Re: Propeller turbine
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > Denis
                                                      > We are familiar with peter's turbine, beautiful piece
                                                      > of equipment,but
                                                      > not to work at 18" to 2 feet of head.
                                                      > Mary
                                                      >
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